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[Jeffolation]

I miss adaptability and agility from DS2. I dunno, with DK2 I felt really comfortable with my character movement, the timing of blocking and rolling. By the time I was hitting NG++ I was soloing everything because summoning either npcs or pcs would just eat up more time. With this one, I can count on one hand the number of bosses I didn't summon for. With the previous entries, once you put enough time in you could really get the timing and rhythm down things got a lot easier, DK2 being the height of that.

With this one I never really heard the music so to speak. My timing always seemed to be just a bit off, dinged here, caught in a roll I thought I timed perfectly there. Enemies punch through attacks I thought would stagger them and they always seemed to have near limitless stamina. Poise seems weaker this go round too? I fiddled around with equip loads and different armour loadouts but I really couldn't perceive much of a difference. I dig this game a lot, I just know of every Souls game, I'm definitely the weakest at this one.

 

[Manu]

Poise isn't weaker in Dark Souls 3. That would imply poise exists in Dark Souls 3.

 

[ElFly]

You don't need to snipe the dragons, that's actually the hard way of killing them this time.

I just adjusted my aim, then shot 50 arrows by pressing one button with one hand and browsed neogaf with the other hand from a position where there are no enemies around.

At least Demon made me clear the area of shooting, or actually go under the fire of the dragons before getting to the snipe spot. In DS3 I can go from bonfire to sniping area unopposed; I am not even sneaking around. You don't even need to shoot both dragons!

We may have conflicting views on what constitutes difficulty but I'd think that everyone would agree that pressing one button for a couple of minutes with no danger whatsoever is Easy.

 

[Manu]

Wait, people actually killed the dragons with arrows? You know there's an easier way later, right?

 

[Soulhouf]

I didn't really feel DS3 was like Demon except for a few specific callbacks

Spoiler

(Stormruler, that bridge in Lothric, etc)

The most "demon" area is

Spoiler

Irithyll dungeon, but only due to the jail + creepy jailers aspect. Latria was waaay more atmospheric, still the most atmospheric area in Soulsborne. They really need to bring back a prisoner yelling across the area calling for help, and a lady singing (tho the lady singing was brought back for great effect in Amana)

, but honestly, it is a short area that leads to Profaned Capital, which is a different thing.

Demon had a certain feeling that everything around you was reachable (obvs there's stuff on the distance that is not, but most of the things that are on stone throw distance, you can somehow reach); all other four games normally fail that, with several areas having blatant unreachable areas. Dark 3 does better at time at this, and way worse at other times. Irithyll is particularly bad about this.

There was also a different aesthetic to Demon that's hard to place. DS3 on the other hand, particularly in the first areas, feels like a rethread. You had the zombie village (which was done better just last year in bloodborne) the creepy cathedral (which was done better just last year in bloodborne) and the poison area, which, well, every other game did better. That slow start kind of soured me on the game a lot. Later the game makes up for it, but the start is disappointing.

Lothric has some callbacks to Demon, but they are mostly bad. Did we really need once more to snipe at a dragon from a safe place? this time it is even easier than in demon so it is less impressive. Doing it while the dragon flied in Demon was more creative, here the dragon just stays there. It is disappointing.

I honestly don't feel that the Demon design is felt here, other than the callbacks. The game makes the player's life easier than ever (except maybe DS2), very few areas feel really oppressive (as opposed to mostly-abandoned) where Demon made you feel unwelcome at every turn. There's not the sense of danger and mystery that the World Tendency added. I honestly feel weird that people are reminded of Demon's design...outside of the direct and less direct references, which ain't few.

Bloodborne was a much Demon-like game, with its more unique aesthetique, and scarier areas.

I'm talking about how the character moves, the rolls, the impact, the physics in general. It's all Demon's Souls. Some mechanics too such as the auto revival after beating a boss.
But the most important thing is how controlling the character feels. I went back to Demon's to check and it's the closest to DS3. DS2 is the farthest.

 

[ElFly]

Wait, people actually killed the dragons with arrows? You know there's an easier way later, right?

It cannot count as "easier" if you can actually be killed by doing it, as opposed to being almost impossible to get killed by walking five seconds from the bonfire.

I'm talking about how the character moves, the rolls, the impact, the physics in general. It's all Demon's Souls. Some mechanics too such as the auto revival after beating a boss.
But the most important thing is how controlling the character feels. I went back to Demon's to check and it's the closest to DS3. DS2 is the farthest.

I honestly adjust to that stuff instantly. Yesterday I loaded DS2 SotFS and barely could tell the difference; hell, if anything DS2 runs better on my machine than the stuttering DS3, whose framerate dies every time it has to save.

I know that DS2 is slower, but other than the really obvious stuff (like Estus chugging speed, which IMHO it is superior in DS2 due to being more punishable, both in PVE and PVP), I cannot tell at all. Once I grabbed the controller in Majula, I just forgot about the minute differences and started playing. The difference between DS2 and Bloodborne is more noticeable (and still ignorable), DS3 and DS2 is like five seconds of adjustment. Hell, I distinctly remember the first time I played Dark 2 (didn't get in the beta) and I actually felt the game moved differently. I forgot by the time I entered the old bonfire keepers house.

I feel some people are exaggerating the differences cause I adapt instantly and forget about it.

 

[Manu]

It cannot count as "easier" if you can actually be killed by doing it, as opposed to being almost impossible to get killed.

Fair enough.

I probably should've said "faster", not easier.

 

[Empty Space]

Baiting people with some lightning spears into rolling into you then dropping a lightning stake on them is a lot of fun. I'd love to hear reactions to it I imagine most people are super pissed.

 

[Sarcasm]

Man NPC invasions are the real thing (Even better then real people because of no lag).

Had to fight some magic wielding ice pick dude while fighting a giant tree wielding tree dude.

I killed tree dude but that NPC was wrecking me. Now I am camping that spot and hope he comes back.

I wish NPC invasions happened regardless if embered or not.

 

[pupcoffee]

I've discovered that I prefer playing this with fat role. The gameplay feels, I don't know, less random with it? More meticulous? The shield is more satisfying to use because it's less pointless. I feel rewarded for not dodging, being sturdy. I think I felt the same way about Dark Souls 1, too. I'm going to die so much on my next playthrough, though.

 

[ElFly]

Fair enough.

I probably should've said "faster", not easier.

The chance of getting killed x time reloading and redoing cannot be faster except for peeps with great execution.

I have a new character now and I did the Dancer skip; my bow was so weak I estimated I wasn't going to be able to kill the dragons. I ran under the fire, got across, but turns out that if you do the Dancer Skip, you are super weak and the weak ass bomb throwing zombies are suddenly dangerous; compounded with a mimic that woke up with one of the bombs, I died fast. Eventually I came back with a better bow.

 

[DoubleTake]

Baiting people with some lightning spears into rolling into you then dropping a lightning stake on them is a lot of fun. I'd love to hear reactions to it I imagine most people are super pissed.

Yup Sunlight Talisman plus Lightning Miracles is great bait mate, all day. Faith Builds are ridiculously more fun than Sorcery which is just roll, roll, shoot, roll roll.

The chance of getting killed x time reloading and redoing cannot be faster except for peeps with great execution.

I have a new character now and I did the Dancer skip; my bow was so weak I estimated I wasn't going to be able to kill the dragons. I ran under the fire, got across, but turns out that if you do the Dancer Skip, you are super weak and the weak ass bomb throwing zombies are suddenly dangerous; compounded with a mimic that woke up with one of the bombs, I died fast. Eventually I came back with a better bow.

I'm still failing to see why youre wasting your time killing the dragons with arrows anyway? Why would you do that when it doesnt give you anything except waste time?

 

[DoubleTake]

DBL Post

 

[Error]

the lore question that needs to be answered... who put all those candles?

 

[MilkBeard]

It cannot count as "easier" if you can actually be killed by doing it, as opposed to being almost impossible to get killed by walking five seconds from the bonfire.



I honestly adjust to that stuff instantly. Yesterday I loaded DS2 SotFS and barely could tell the difference; hell, if anything DS2 runs better on my machine than the stuttering DS3, whose framerate dies every time it has to save.

I know that DS2 is slower, but other than the really obvious stuff (like Estus chugging speed, which IMHO it is superior in DS2 due to being more punishable, both in PVE and PVP), I cannot tell at all. Once I grabbed the controller in Majula, I just forgot about the minute differences and started playing. The difference between DS2 and Bloodborne is more noticeable (and still ignorable), DS3 and DS2 is like five seconds of adjustment. Hell, I distinctly remember the first time I played Dark 2 (didn't get in the beta) and I actually felt the game moved differently. I forgot by the time I entered the old bonfire keepers house.

I feel some people are exaggerating the differences cause I adapt instantly and forget about it.

It depends. How many points have you put into adaptability? Starting out in Dark Souls 2 after playing Dark 3, the game feels waaaaaay different than I remember. There is a huge difference in the way the animations, hitboxes and i-frames work between Dark 2 and Dark 3. Dark 2's animations take a lot longer to recover, for one. You will be stuck for a fair bit longer, say, after using an attack than you would in Dark 3. It's all about that recovery time. Also, i-frames in the roll are quite a bit different. In Dark 3, they did make some changes so that some enemies can hit you during the roll, but it's more about where your roll ends than where you are during the roll. In Dark 2, some enemies can clip you in the middle of the roll, and it feels a bit strange after playing Dark 3. Also, roll distance. In 3 you can quite literally roll all the way behind an enemy. This can't really be done in 2.

These are just some basic comparisons I made when going back to Dark 2 after completing 3. Of course people's preferences will always matter. I prefer the limber control and quick response time of Dark 3. If you base your playstyle on a shieldless, roll-heavy playstyle then the differences couldn't be any more stark. However, there is definitely some nuance required in Dark 2 that will take some adjustments in my play style. After playing 2, I could already tell that i would have to acclimate myself once again to 3's differences as well. Dark 3's enemies are really relentless in their quick hits which seems punishing at first, but you can usually stagger them with heavy weapons easily, and you can exploit their position for a backstab, which seems to be very difficult to do in Dark 2 because of they way they designed many of the enemies.

 

[Yopis]

Killed Abyss Watchers am I close to halfway point?

 

[pupcoffee]

Killed Abyss Watchers am I close to halfway point?

In another area or three.

 

[DPB]

what's a good weapons for pyromancer build ? I kinda really like Raw Astora Straight Sword. I wonder when I should gem it to scale with magic level...

You should keep it raw, that sword has a really good attack rating with a raw infusion, but it has some of the worst magic scaling in the game. If you want to stick to straight swords then a Longsword, Broadsword or Dark Sword have much better scaling with magical infusions.

 

[Hakkuei]

I'm taking a break from NK and I noticed there are 0 summon signs on the ground. If I wait ~10 minutes I can sometimes see a sign pop up but that's it. Is everyone there SL85+ /with +10 weapon upgrade or something? Seems odd.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'd say at this point that it's a fact that most gaffers don't like DSIII or found it disappointing at best.

Me and Manu can bring up threads where people mostly dislike DSIII. How many can you bring where you can see love? Because I don't see it, either on here or on GameFAQs or anywhere else. DSIII is not a very well liked game, from what I can see. Sure it has a high MC score, but since when has that reflected the fans opinion?

This'll be my last post on DSIII's reaction on here, because I don't want to derail the thread any further. Feel free to PM me if you want to debate.

A friend showed me these graphs, which apparently comes from Reddit so I don't know how legit it is, but take them for what you will:

*shrugs*

I'm talking about how the character moves, the rolls, the impact, the physics in general. It's all Demon's Souls. Some mechanics too such as the auto revival after beating a boss.
But the most important thing is how controlling the character feels. I went back to Demon's to check and it's the closest to DS3. DS2 is the farthest.

I agree completely. Dark Souls 3 really feels like Demon's Souls 2 a lot of the time. To make a list of things:

- Movement speed, general physics (attacking, generous dodging, etc.)
- Auto-revival after a boss (or helping as a phantom)
- HP reduction when non-embered + as a phantom
- No poise
- Useless heavy armour xD
- Mana bar for magic
- Estoc being OP in PvP xD
- Dual kats returning
-

Spoiler

Stormruler

-

Spoiler

Morion Blade

- Luck stat + Blueblood Sword vs Anri's Straight Sword
- Scholar's Candlestick = Kris Blade
- Evangelists reminiscent of Fat Ministers
- Gauntlet of enemies before L&L very reminiscent 1-3 before Penetrator fight
- Red-eyed knight, difficult optional enemy in starting area
- Firelink very reminiscent of the Nexus
- Irithyll Dungeon reminiscent of Latria prison
- High Wall of Lothric/Lothric Castle reminiscent of Boletarian Palace (far more than Undead Burg/Parish)
- Firekeeper "Then touch the darkness within me", vs Maiden in Black "Then touch the demon inside me"
- Gimmick bosses being more common
-

Spoiler

Yuria'

s assassination request reminiscent of Mephistopheles's sidequest, plus they even stand similarly
- Speaking of which, a character actually called

Spoiler

Yuria

again xD

Anything else I might be forgetting?

* Yes I know about the black knight in Undead Burg but note how this one specifically has the glowing red eyes from Demon's Souls, indicating he's more dangerous than regular enemies.

 

[theSlacker]

In my own experience the Blademoon summon works as intended...it's unfortunate it's not working for others. Either way, I have like 50 extra just sitting in my inventory. I was thinking about giving them away but it seems maybe you can't. Can anyone find out?

I get jelly every time I see your avatar now because of your easy darkmoon experience. :c

You had the zombie village (which was done better just last year in bloodborne)

Only part I really disagree with. Undead settlement was much better then Hemwick Charnel Lane. BB had an amazing city though that you really can't compete with though. Irithyll for instance felt like a walk down a single guided path in comparison for instance.

 

[MilkBeard]

I get jelly every time I see your avatar now because of your easy darkmoon experience. :c



Only part I really disagree with. Undead settlement was much better then Hemwick Charnel Lane. BB had an amazing city though that you really can't compete with though. Irithyll for instance felt like a walk down a single guided path in comparison for instance.

Even with my easier experience, I still am really surprised by the high numbers in the Knight's Roster. Seriously, how do people get 1000+ points? Do they play the game literally every hour of every day? Even with everything I think I am around 100 or so.

Also, about your other comment, I really hope the DLC expands on Irithyl. Easily one of the best areas in the game, and with the most interesting Lore, and so I would easily have liked if they would have expanded that area even if they had to sacrifice some others.

Please Fromsoft, let us experience more of that beautiful city.

 

[il Diavolo]

Beat

Spoiler

Soul of Cinder

and got the

Spoiler

usurper

ending.

Appreciate the fact the game asks if you want to start a second playthrough instead of throwing you right into it. Gave me a chance to find the remaining estus/bone shards.

Y'all recommend anything else I should do before jumping into a new game?

 

[ElFly]

It depends. How many points have you put into adaptability? Starting out in Dark Souls 2 after playing Dark 3, the game feels waaaaaay different than I remember. There is a huge difference in the way the animations, hitboxes and i-frames work between Dark 2 and Dark 3. Dark 2's animations take a lot longer to recover, for one. You will be stuck for a fair bit longer, say, after using an attack than you would in Dark 3. It's all about that recovery time. Also, i-frames in the roll are quite a bit different. In Dark 3, they did make some changes so that some enemies can hit you during the roll, but it's more about where your roll ends than where you are during the roll. In Dark 2, some enemies can clip you in the middle of the roll, and it feels a bit strange after playing Dark 3. Also, roll distance. In 3 you can quite literally roll all the way behind an enemy. This can't really be done in 2.

These are just some basic comparisons I made when going back to Dark 2 after completing 3. Of course people's preferences will always matter. I prefer the limber control and quick response time of Dark 3. If you base your playstyle on a shieldless, roll-heavy playstyle then the differences couldn't be any more stark. However, there is definitely some nuance required in Dark 2 that will take some adjustments in my play style. After playing 2, I could already tell that i would have to acclimate myself once again to 3's differences as well. Dark 3's enemies are really relentless in their quick hits which seems punishing at first, but you can usually stagger them with heavy weapons easily, and you can exploit their position for a backstab, which seems to be very difficult to do in Dark 2 because of they way they designed many of the enemies.

It is hard for me to tell; I think the objective was to get to 95 or 100 of ADP (or AGI? whatever, the secondary stat, not the primary). The first time around I raised the stats mostly in a balanced way, and super fast people realized the secondary stat controlled i-frames. The character I used yesterday or so was already level 70 or something so the ADP was at a good level. I honest don't remember, but that stuff can be looked up now.

Dark 2 is waaaaaay more generous with the level ups. They are cheaper overall, and money is plentiful, even with despawning enemies. So, while I can see an argument that this is annoying for a Lvl1 deprived run, everyone else should put some points into AGI/ADP to get the character to speed. You will probably be there by the end of the first area, Heide or Forest.

For a bunch of reasons, I did not enjoy heavy weapons as much in Dark 2, while I rocked a Zwei in D1 and D3, and the Axe and the tombstone sword in BB. But Dark 2 has a ton of usable weapons, so maybe I somehow missed mine.


I rarely backstabbed before DS3. In Demon I only did it for the enemies that were with their back to me before agro, like the miners in 2-1/2. I went through Dark 1 and 2 largely without backstabbing. I feel that backstabbing and riposte break the flow of the game a lot; not the parrying itself, but the sloooow animation of the riposte. I parry somewhat on PVP when people get too predictable. Bloodborne I did one run parrying a lot, but on my second run I found the big axe and just abused the charged 2H hard attack, which is a spin and never again used the guns, ever. In DS3 I started with the sneaking spell, so I backstabbed a little more.

I wish Souls used parries like SF3 did, where you only get an aperture, not a slow special animation on the counterattack. The animation of backstabbing/riposte and the invincibility associated to it just stop the beautiful flow of the game in its tracks.

 

[LogicStep]

I really enjoy watching enb's play through but man, he is so slow. He's still in the undead settlement where I'm watching bug man I can tell this will be a long one.

 

[burntchomsky]

It depends. How many points have you put into adaptability? Starting out in Dark Souls 2 after playing Dark 3, the game feels waaaaaay different than I remember. There is a huge difference in the way the animations, hitboxes and i-frames work between Dark 2 and Dark 3. Dark 2's animations take a lot longer to recover, for one. You will be stuck for a fair bit longer, say, after using an attack than you would in Dark 3. It's all about that recovery time. Also, i-frames in the roll are quite a bit different. In Dark 3, they did make some changes so that some enemies can hit you during the roll, but it's more about where your roll ends than where you are during the roll. In Dark 2, some enemies can clip you in the middle of the roll, and it feels a bit strange after playing Dark 3. Also, roll distance. In 3 you can quite literally roll all the way behind an enemy. This can't really be done in 2.

It sounds like maybe you are, but I'd encourage you to keep an open mind about the roll mechanics in DS2. They feel a bit jankier at first, but they add up to make combat a more strategic, tense affair than DS3, where you can basically just spam the roll and face nearly no consequences for doing so.

The enemies in DS3 are definitely created with the the overpowered roll in mind. They come at you very quickly, which places priority on your ability to quickly spam the roll button, and they attempt to punish you if you roll around them, however that too can be solved by simply continuing to spam the roll button. Bosses are absolutely relentless, because they have all been designed similarly. Sulyvahn, Dancer, Gundyr, and Nameless King, for instance, all tend to chain attack-after-attack, which has led many players to criticize the design for not giving them a stamina bar. The attacks come so frequently, that you basically just have to spam dodge until they use the wrong "easy to punish" move, after which you whack them, rinse-and-repeat. Well, it's hard to blame From for that design so long as we think the roll is OK, because this was the only way to design difficult enemies while still retaining the crazy powerful roll.

So, basically, if you keep the imba roll, you end up having to design bosses in the DS3 manner, which ends up leading to a fairly stale sort of combat in which you can get 1 swipe, at most, and only after the boss makes a 'fail' attack. If you attempt to balance the roll and remove some of its power, you can design bosses who swing slower and are less relentless, thus allowing for more diverse strategies for beating them. Because there isn't a get-out-jail-free-card roll, those bosses still end up being (somewhat) difficult.

 

[CHC]

I really enjoy watching enb's play through but man, he is so slow. He's still in the undead settlement where I'm watching bug man I can tell this will be a long one.

 

[2AdEPT]

I don't remember saying it in this thread (but I did in the import OT) : DS3 brought up most of what I loved in the series. It feels like Demon's Souls in Dark Souls world if that makes sense. There are still some DS2 crap they should've ignored but some good ideas too.
No trash areas, Demon's Souls feeling, all the bosses are cool and unique, refined gameplay, amazing areas and monster design and gorgeous music.
I still rank Demon's Souls and Bloodborne above it but over all it's the best in the Dark Souls series and a splendid conclusion.

Well said and agreed!

 

[silva1991]

Wait, people actually killed the dragons with arrows? You know there's an easier way later, right?

The ones in Lothric high walls? how?

 

[ramyeon]

He's not still there, he's still there at the point in the play through that poster is up to.

His latest video was going through I

Spoiler

rithyll

.

 

[MilkBeard]

It is hard for me to tell; I think the objective was to get to 95 or 100 of ADP (or AGI? whatever, the secondary stat, not the primary). The first time around I raised the stats mostly in a balanced way, and super fast people realized the secondary stat controlled i-frames. The character I used yesterday or so was already level 70 or something so the ADP was at a good level. I honest don't remember, but that stuff can be looked up now.

Dark 2 is waaaaaay more generous with the level ups. They are cheaper overall, and money is plentiful, even with despawning enemies. So, while I can see an argument that this is annoying for a Lvl1 deprived run, everyone else should put some points into AGI/ADP to get the character to speed. You will probably be there by the end of the first area, Heide or Forest.



I rarely backstabbed before DS3. In Demon I only did it for the enemies that were with their back to me before agro, like the miners in 2-1/2. I went through Dark 1 and 2 largely without backstabbing. I feel that backstabbing and riposte break the flow of the game a lot; not the parrying itself, but the sloooow animation of the riposte. I parry somewhat on PVP when people get too predictable. Bloodborne I did one run parrying a lot, but on my second run I found the big axe and just abused the charged 2H hard attack, which is a spin and never again used the guns, ever. In DS3 I started with the sneaking spell, so I backstabbed a little more.

I wish Souls used parries like SF3 did, where you only get an aperture, not a slow special animation on the counterattack. The animation of backstabbing/riposte and the invincibility associated to it just stop the beautiful flow of the game in its tracks.

I can understand that, because it comes off as just plain awkward in Dark Souls 1. Limiting backstabs at least from Dark 1 was a good idea. It feels the most balanced in Dark 3 simply because it is a viable option for humanoid enemies.

I started this playthrough of Dark Souls 2 as a dual wield build, and I've already gotten Adaptability up to about 17. Even by this point it still feels unresponsive. I think they should have axed the whole thing personally, or at least made it affect the control differently. But anyway. I don't remember what the cutoff point for investing in Adaptability is, because when I originally played the game there wasn't as much known information. I always thought it stopped really affecting much after 20 adaptability, but I could be wrong. If not, then I will surely pump that stat up asap.

I used to play sword and board style until Bloodborne, when I got into the beauty of running around freely and dodging a lot. I still use a shield in DS3, but I have adapted a more free melee playstyle. That is why it was such a shock to jump into DS2 again with low adaptability. I am curious to see how much it changes. I know at least that the delay in animations gets reduced. Does it actually affect i-frames? I thought it didn't change that aspect.

 

[OniBarubary]

Where the fuck does Sirris go after I finish her quest and she swears loyalty to me? I wanna kill her for her armor but she left the shrine.

You jerk.

 

[DPB]

Even with my easier experience, I still am really surprised by the high numbers in the Knight's Roster. Seriously, how do people get 1000+ points? Do they play the game literally every hour of every day? Even with everything I think I am around 100 or so.

On PC many of them seem to be cheaters. They either have impossibly high stats (like the guy at the top of the list with 3000 points, SL60 and 99 in everything) or unrealistically high levels that would take years to reach.

 

[Manu]

The ones in Lothric high walls? how?

I meant the ones in

Spoiler

Lothric Castle.

 

[Astral]

You jerk.

Hey she's

Spoiler

gonna die anyway.

It looks so cool!

 

[ramyeon]

You jerk.

She

Spoiler

kills herself near her Grandfather's grave outside Firelink Shrine. You can find her corpse and her ashes there.

This is assuming you've actually finished her whole quest. Including helping her defeat Creighton and her Grandfather in her world etc.

 

[Griss]

She

Spoiler

kills herself near her Grandfather's grave outside Firelink Shrine. You can find her corpse and her ashes there.

This is assuming you've actually finished her whole quest. Including helping her defeat Creighton and her Grandfather in her world etc.

What if she goes hostile and you don't finish her quest? She leaves the shrine - is it possible to find and kill her? Where?

Spoiler

Cleaning up before heading to NG+

 

[2AdEPT]

Jeff green is in Farron's keep...ahead of ENB go figure. I dont mind EnB but his God status is awful hard to live up to....many of us were ahead of him from the old Demons days and he was far from the first to do all things, like no upgrades challenges, (which were obviously more grueling than SL1 with maxed equipment) and many of us on GAF did this well before he; and Kay whined too much about DS2 and didn't even play Bloodborne.....some of the heroes people have in this community are too popular while some really awesome vidsmiths never get noticed much...take Ooziee and Pokashine for example. Some of the speed runners are also underrated IMO.

 

[MilkBeard]

It sounds like maybe you are, but I'd encourage you to keep an open mind about the roll mechanics in DS2. They feel a bit jankier at first, but they add up to make combat a more strategic, tense affair than DS3, where you can basically just spam the roll and face nearly no consequences for doing so.

The enemies in DS3 are definitely created with the the overpowered roll in mind. They come at you very quickly, which places priority on your ability to quickly spam the roll button, and they attempt to punish you if you roll around them, however that too can be solved by simply continuing to spam the roll button. Bosses are absolutely relentless, because they have all been designed similarly. Sulyvahn, Dancer, Gundyr, and Nameless King, for instance, all tend to chain attack-after-attack, which has led many players to criticize the design for not giving them a stamina bar. The attacks come so frequently, that you basically just have to spam dodge until they use the wrong "easy to punish" move, after which you whack them, rinse-and-repeat. Well, it's hard to blame From for that design so long as we think the roll is OK, because this was the only way to design difficult enemies while still retaining the crazy powerful roll.

So, basically, if you keep the imba roll, you end up having to design bosses in the DS3 manner, which ends up leading to a fairly stale sort of combat in which you can get 1 swipe, at most, and only after the boss makes a 'fail' attack. If you attempt to balance the roll and remove some of its power, you can design bosses who swing slower and are less relentless, thus allowing for more diverse strategies for beating them. Because there isn't a get-out-jail-free-card roll, those bosses still end up being (somewhat) difficult.

It's true, they have different design philosophies. Dark Souls 2's enemies are much slower in general. I prefer Dark 3 simply because I like to use melee builds. Keep in mind that you can still go the shield/blocking route in Dark Souls 3, you just need to make sure you use a shield that has high stability. The bosses are more relentless in general, but I don't agree that they make for a 'stale' combat, it's much more exciting in my opinion. Of course this is a personal preference.

Keep in mind, the enemies are relentless, and yet they have really obvious weakpoints to help keep things fair: most of the relentless bosses can be parried, for example. And I like to look at the Master Swordsman as the hallmark design philosophy in Dark Souls 3. The enemy is really fast, really strong, and yet, he still has obvious weakpoints that can be exploited to make the gameplay fair. Compare that to say, the white knights that are sleeping all around Drangliec- it feels to me that instead of being design for challenging but fair play, they were designed to simply punish people from using tactics like backstabs. He also has an attack that will home in on you in an instant, no matter where you stand, defying logic, unless you are completely far away. The blatant 'auto targeting' attacks in Dark Souls 2 are probably the most annoying things about the combat. Instead of designing the enemies to have good mechanics but yet that still have weaknesses, which has been a hallmark design of the Souls series, they'd rather it simply be diffcult in a sense that defies natural logic.

I do understand the more strategic stance on DS2's roll system. It definitely has potential, and works with the slower animations. It just feels strange switching between them, and in general doesn't feel as reliable a method of play like DS1 and 3.

 

[ElFly]

I can understand that, because it comes off as just plain awkward in Dark Souls 1. Limiting backstabs at least from Dark 1 was a good idea. It feels the most balanced in Dark 3 simply because it is a viable option for humanoid enemies.

I started this playthrough of Dark Souls 2 as a dual wield build, and I've already gotten Adaptability up to about 17. Even by this point it still feels unresponsive. I think they should have axed the whole thing personally, or at least made it affect the control differently. But anyway. I don't remember what the cutoff point for investing in Adaptability is, because when I originally played the game there wasn't as much known information. I always thought it stopped really affecting much after 20 adaptability, but I could be wrong. If not, then I will surely pump that stat up asap.

I used to play sword and board style until Bloodborne, when I got into the beauty of running around freely and dodging a lot. I still use a shield in DS3, but I have adapted a more free melee playstyle. That is why it was such a shock to jump into DS2 again with low adaptability. I am curious to see how much it changes. I know at least that the delay in animations gets reduced. Does it actually affect i-frames? I thought it didn't change that aspect.

Up to a limit you get more i-frames; IIRC you never get to the quick roll of DS1 but it gets close. Dark 2 is interesting as it makes dual wielding its own thing; you need hella stats, but it is worth it, so you can even forego shields.


I honest don't remember the white sleeping heide dudes being unfair?

My problem with them is that they are sleeping instead of walking around; but they felt like a fair, if though challenge, for the level you get to them. Maybe it changed in SotFS, but by the time I played SotFS I knew my way around them.

If anything I feel the master swordman shows how they balanced difficulty in DS3. There are enemies that can wtfpwn you if you are not careful. MS can kill the beginner player in what. Two hits? Then whenever DS3 feels it needs to raise the difficulty, it will give the enemies the ability to one-or-two-hit kill. Irithyll is the starkest example with its pyromancers/knights, but then the Dungeon gives a two hit kill to the jailers, then the really though knights in later Lothric (these aren't that bad tho)

Those aren't interesting encounters, just annoying and maybe unfair. I prefer much more to mix melee enemies and ranged ones, and forcing you to fight many enemies at once. Those really force you to develop spatial awareness, by having to keep count of the guy shooting lazors from afar while you kill the melee guys, so you have to roll at the precise moment the lazor will hit you. But the sleeping heide dudes are such a weird thing to bring up. You have to fuck up really hard to fight them in a group situation. I really wish DS2 had made them roam around.

 

[OniBarubary]

Hey she's

Spoiler

gonna die anyway.

It looks so cool!

Betrayal!

She

Spoiler

kills herself near her Grandfather's grave outside Firelink Shrine. You can find her corpse and her ashes there.

This is assuming you've actually finished her whole quest. Including helping her defeat Creighton and her Grandfather in her world etc.

Yeah, do this instead.

 

[The Flash]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[MilkBeard]

Up to a limit you get more i-frames; IIRC you never get to the quick roll of DS1 but it gets close. Dark 2 is interesting as it makes dual wielding its own thing; you need hella stats, but it is worth it, so you can even forego shields.

Yeah I'm working on a dual wielding build. It's generally a new thing for me, as I usually go with a shield. The dual attack is really powerful, even when using weaker weapons. But this build needs adaptability ASAP. Otherwise it's just rough going. Gonna level that up as far as is effective.

 

[Bossun]

I can understand that, because it comes off as just plain awkward in Dark Souls 1. Limiting backstabs at least from Dark 1 was a good idea. It feels the most balanced in Dark 3 simply because it is a viable option for humanoid enemies.

I started this playthrough of Dark Souls 2 as a dual wield build, and I've already gotten Adaptability up to about 17. Even by this point it still feels unresponsive. I think they should have axed the whole thing personally, or at least made it affect the control differently. But anyway. I don't remember what the cutoff point for investing in Adaptability is, because when I originally played the game there wasn't as much known information. I always thought it stopped really affecting much after 20 adaptability, but I could be wrong. If not, then I will surely pump that stat up asap.

I used to play sword and board style until Bloodborne, when I got into the beauty of running around freely and dodging a lot. I still use a shield in DS3, but I have adapted a more free melee playstyle. That is why it was such a shock to jump into DS2 again with low adaptability. I am curious to see how much it changes. I know at least that the delay in animations gets reduced. Does it actually affect i-frames? I thought it didn't change that aspect.

It's funny because to me it's the contrary, I feel DS3 is too fast, way too fast, it,s so easy to backstab anyone, and to have a fast gameplay they added near infinite stamina to most ennemies. Demon's souls, after playing it again not long ago was also definitely fast, faster than I remember. Bu the world was full of surprises and anomy placement was top notch and unforgiving.

I am a huge fan of the heavier (or less responsive if you want to say) DS1 and 2, 2 was a bit annoying because ennemies were designed and acted in a way that was weird, the tracking, packing and hitboxes made the fights a chore sometimes but it's probably the best one in term of feeling the weight of your armor.

Anyway to me, the slow pace I felt when playing DS1 and 2 was refreshing, blood borne was fast but it was a different game, I don't think it's a particularly good idea to have made DS3 a faster, more actionny game.

I love the game, overall it probably has the best ennemies and bosses design, the world is beautiful and awesome but the callbacks to DS1 are a bit too much.
Yet something is still bothering me about the game but it's hard to pinpoint what exactly.

 

[MilkBeard]

I honest don't remember the white sleeping heide dudes being unfair?

My problem with them is that they are sleeping instead of walking around; but they felt like a fair, if though challenge, for the level you get to them. Maybe it changed in SotFS, but by the time I played SotFS I knew my way around them.

Yeah in vanilla DS2 they weren't as many and they stayed sleeping. But in SotFS, as soon as you beat Dragonrider in Heide's Tower for example, they wake up and aggro from long distance. It feels like a really strange change, especially because there are so many of them lying around in that area. None of the enemies in this area are quick kills at a lower level, they are all enemies which take time to beat and they all gang on you as soon as you walk through. The area punishes you hard if you try to take the forked path after they are awake. Honestly I kind of wish they kept the original enemy placement.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Betrayal!

Heh. When [Orbeck related]

Spoiler

Yuria was asking me to murder Orbeck, this was on my mage build, so I said "fuck that, my sorc bro is staying alive" and refused to kill him regardless of what the reward might be. My friend told me "oh do it, she gives you something really cool! just buy all his spells and it won't matter if he dies" and I was all "but... he's cool! " and he laughed, even offered to somehow dupe the assassination reward for me.

Then eventually I did buy all his spells.... and he said such nice things like how grateful he was to me and all that. I still thought "I'm not killing him!"

....Then he runs off somewhere and gets himself killed anyway. ;_; Well at least I don't feel guilty about turning in his ashes, lol. I never betrayed him!

... I did look up where his ashes were. Didn't feel like scouring the entire game for them.

 

[Tarkus]

Jeff green is in Farron's keep...ahead of ENB go figure. I dont mind EnB but his God status is awful hard to live up to....many of us were ahead of him from the old Demons days and he was far from the first to do all things, like no upgrades challenges, (which were obviously more grueling than SL1 with maxed equipment) and many of us on GAF did this well before he; and Kay whined too much about DS2 and didn't even play Bloodborne.....some of the heroes people have in this community are too popular while some really awesome vidsmiths never get noticed much...take Ooziee and Pokashine for example. Some of the speed runners are also underrated IMO.

No, ENB is well above their status. Nobody cares about Kay or Jeff Green. I like Mriwont4get but nobody knows him. ENB is an icon in this community. ENB explains the lore; not in this game, but usually with some insight.

 

[Momentary]

I've literally over-leveled in this game and locked myself out of getting PVP items the easy way. Now I gotta farm this shit.

Hell I've locked myself out of the one thing I was looking forward to. I didn't know there was some kind of meta thing going on that you couldn't level over 120. Oh well. There's no way I'm starting over man. I'll just play some Street Fighter V instead for some dueling.

 

[MilkBeard]

No, ENB is well above their status. Nobody cares about Jay or Jeff Green. I like Mriwont4get but nobody knows him. ENB is an icon in this community.

Yeah, I mean, people are harping on ENB but I feel like his blind playthrough of Dark Souls 3 is what a sort of 'normal' playthrough looks like for someone who has good knowledge of the series.

Also, the way he rips through those dancer enemies is great. They gave me a lot of trouble at first but he just smokes them. Probably because I had a much shorter weapon that doesn't stagger enemies easily.

I also enjoy how he puts all the lore together. He spends time reading the items but doesn't spend too much time tinkering around with everything. He does end up missing a lot of stuff but that is the nature of this game on a first blind playthrough.

 

[OniBarubary]

Heh. When [Orbeck related]

Spoiler

Yuria was asking me to murder Orbeck, this was on my mage build, so I said "fuck that, my sorc bro is staying alive" and refused to kill him regardless of what the reward might be. My friend told me "oh do it, she gives you something really cool! just buy all his spells and it won't matter if he dies" and I was all "but... he's cool! " and he laughed, even offered to somehow dupe the assassination reward for me.

Then eventually I did buy all his spells.... and he said such nice things like how grateful he was to me and all that. I still thought "I'm not killing him!"

....Then he runs off somewhere and gets himself killed anyway. ;_; Well at least I don't feel guilty about turning in his ashes, lol. I never betrayed him!

... I did look up where his ashes were. Didn't feel like scouring the entire game for them.

I laughed super hard at that.

Spoiler

She tells me to kill him and I was like, "Fuck that noise" and then after buying everything he dies anyways and I was just "Well...that all worked out well"

A bit of a wait if you want the rewards earlier but hey, at least that way you don't miss out on anything.