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[The_Hitcher89]

I...I think I just about prefer Dark Souls to Demon's

I miss the more memorable (imo) characters from Demon's, and the sanctity of the Nexus, but I prefer the 'open' layout of Dark and bonfire system. Also much prefer the ease wih which you get to the bosses from the bonfires

Also, I prefer the lack of tendency

 

[Sullichin]

Crunching the numbers, divine and occult weapons appear to have pretty steady scaling even up to 50 - a +3 bump to AR for every point put into Faith.



Thanks, I think I'm going to raise faith to 50, bring my Claymore to +15 with DMB and carry a divine Balder Side Sword for backup.

Sounds good. Consider reversing that and having +15 BSS / divine claymore because the DMB magic damage is applied to every swing and BSS swings faster. With that said I'd prefer the +15 claymore/DMB because I love the claymore in PVP and the 2HR2s are excellent

I...I think I just about prefer Dark Souls to Demon's

I miss the more memorable (imo) characters from Demon's, and the sanctity of the Nexus, but I prefer the 'open' layout of Dark and bonfire system. Also much prefer the ease wih which you get to the bosses from the bonfires

Also, I prefer the lack of tendency

I wish Dark Souls had something like world tendency, it keeps NG+s interesting in Demon's Souls.
I love both games, Dark Souls has many improvements but there are some things DeS did better too.

Dark Souls
+ Bonfire/Humanity System is better than mp/grass/soul and body form.
+ interconnected world, bigger game
+ Better Bosses, but many will disagree with this
+ Much bigger armor/weapon variety, armor is more useful than DeS
+ Better combat
+ Less farming and less frustrating crystal lizards

Demons
+ I prefer some of the weapon upgrade paths to their DaS equivalent, especially crescent/moon weapons
+ Atmosphere is better overall. Boleteria, shrine of storms and tower of latria are amazing and easily among the best areas of either game
+ Faster movement speed
+ More aggressive enemies. It's way easier to run past enemies in Dark Souls than Demon's, even with the thief ring
+ Much more intense black phantom NPC fights.
+/- World tendency adds replay value, but I think Dark Souls is more replayable even without it

 

[789shadow]

I found the Chaos Servant covenant, but I can't find Quelana?

 

[Dresden]

I found the Chaos Servant covenant, but I can't find Quelana?

She's the one you talked to in order to join the covenant.

 

[789shadow]

She's the one you talked to in order to join the covenant.

No she isn't, I'm talking about the one that appears outside of Quelagg's domain.

 

[Arjen]

She's the one you talked to in order to join the covenant.

No that's the fair lady. Qualana is on one of the islands in the swamp, if you exit qualaag domain, you walk straight to her
/edit
I think she only appears if you have a +10 pyro glove though

 

[Dresden]

No she isn't, I'm talking about the one that appears outside of Quelagg's domain.

Oh, the pyro chick. She's on a small island near the water wheel.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

Is the Black Knight Halberd any good?

Worth switching to it for NG+ from my Halberd+15?

I kind of wish there was a New Game +/- where I could see how powerful I am against the default enemies now, rather than the strengthened ones from NG+

 

[Seanspeed]

Is the Black Knight Halberd any good?

Worth switching to it for NG+ from my Halberd+15?

I prefer the moveset of the regular Halberd better, but its definitely useable and fun still.

 

[sixghost]

Is the Black Knight Halberd any good?

Worth switching to it for NG+ from my Halberd+15?

I kind of wish there was a New Game +/- where I could see how powerful I am against the default enemies now, rather than the strengthened ones from NG+

Probably not. Most of the black knight weapons are fantastic if you get them early on in a NG playthrough, but they tend to not have great movesets and get beat out by +15 weapons with good scaling and buffs. Depends on your build though.

 

[Soulhouf]

I wish Dark Souls had something like world tendency, it keeps NG+s interesting in Demon's Souls.
I love both games, Dark Souls has many improvements but there are some things DeS did better too.

Dark Souls
+ Bonfire/Humanity System is better than mp/grass/soul and body form.
+ interconnected world, bigger game
+ Better Bosses, but many will disagree with this
+ Much bigger armor/weapon variety, armor is more useful than DeS
+ Better combat
+ Less farming and less frustrating crystal lizards

Demons
+ I prefer some of the weapon upgrade paths to their DaS equivalent, especially crescent/moon weapons
+ Atmosphere is better overall. Boleteria, shrine of storms and tower of latria are amazing and easily among the best areas of either game
+ Faster movement speed
+ More aggressive enemies. It's way easier to run past enemies in Dark Souls than Demon's, even with the thief ring
+ Much more intense black phantom NPC fights.
+/- World tendency adds replay value, but I think Dark Souls is more replayable even without it

Agreed.
In much deeper details but I would add:

Demons
+You don't loose the lock on after parrying/backstabbing
+2H calculation is applied to bows as well which makes pure dex hunter type build easier to make
+Blessed weapons are excellent, perhaps my favorite upgrade path
+Adjucator shield is so much better than the useless Sanctus
+King Allant aka the best boss of the Souls games
+Backstab which needs more precision compared to Dark
+Bosses souls
+Online server based is so much better than the system they implemented in Dark Souls. But at least you won't worry about the servers will shut down in that one...

-Too many useless weapons/armors but on the positive side, you don't really care about armor and somehow I like this.

Dark
+I really like how you can see when you'll be poisoned/cursed/bleed
+Armor upgrade

Regarding poise. I prefer by far how the stunlock system works in Demon's. Going PvP without poise in Dark Souls is so much penalizing.

 

[ihearthawthats]

has anyone ever made a viable resistance build?


after messing around with the leo ring, it doesn't seem to fit my playstyle. wanted to use it 2h pokes with silver knight spear but its just too hard to land. 1h while holding shield up or just straight up poise tanking seems the only real way to make good use of it.

 

[sixghost]

Resistance would be an interesting stat if it added Poise. I think the fact that resistance gets ignored has a lot to do with people stopping at SL120. Points are just too valuable when you only have 110 or so to allocate. At some point, once your armor is all maxed out, resistance is the only way to increase your defense stats.

 

[Wowbagger]

Resistance would be an interesting stat if it added Poise. I think the fact that resistance gets ignored has a lot to do with people stopping at SL120. Points are just too valuable when you only have 110 or so to allocate. At some point, once your armor is all maxed out, resistance is the only way to increase your defense stats.

There is also the Humanity stat. With that maxed out on a 120 level char, putting points into Resistance hardly increases your defenses.

 

[Sullichin]

has anyone ever made a viable resistance build?


after messing around with the leo ring, it doesn't seem to fit my playstyle. wanted to use it 2h pokes with silver knight spear but its just too hard to land. 1h while holding shield up or just straight up poise tanking seems the only real way to make good use of it.

Fast rolling/flipping leo ring spear users are the biggest pain in the ass in PVP. If you get good at that, you'll win a lot. Leo ring is also awesome with the greatsword.

Resistance would be an interesting stat if it added Poise. I think the fact that resistance gets ignored has a lot to do with people stopping at SL120. Points are just too valuable when you only have 110 or so to allocate. At some point, once your armor is all maxed out, resistance is the only way to increase your defense stats.

Even if you're going way over 120, resistance is never worth it.
Consider that you have 130DEF at SL4 with 99 humanity and 11 resistance. If you bring resistance all the way up to 99, that only increases to 169DEF ! If you put all those levels into VIT instead, at 99 VIT, base resistance and 99 humanity you have 167 DEF... and a whole lot more health. Maybe if humanity and the other stats didn't increase your resistance it would have a purpose, but it really has none now.

 

[sixghost]

Fast rolling/flipping leo ring spear users are the biggest pain in the ass in PVP. If you get good at that, you'll win a lot. Leo ring is also awesome with the greatsword.


Even if you're going way over 120, resistance is never worth it.
Consider that you have 130DEF at SL4 with 99 humanity and 11 resistance. If you bring resistance all the way up to 99, that only increases to 169DEF ! If you put all those levels into VIT instead, at 99 VIT, base resistance and 99 humanity you have 167 DEF... and a whole lot more health. Maybe if humanity and the other stats didn't increase your resistance it would have a purpose, but it really has none now.

I had no idea it was so bad. At the very least I thought there was in appreciable difference in the defense boost compared to the other stats. Does it just affect poison, curse, and bleed resistances?

 

[Sullichin]

I had no idea it was so bad. At the very least I thought there was in appreciable difference in the defense boost compared to the other stats. Does it just affect poison, curse, and bleed resistances?

Its main purpose is poison resistance, it doesn't even affect curse or bleed. It increases physical,fire,and magic defense, to the same or slightly better extent as leveling up any other stat.

EDIT: so long Samus, it's about time I have a Dark Souls avatar

 

[ihearthawthats]

Fast rolling/flipping leo ring spear users are the biggest pain in the ass in PVP. If you get good at that, you'll win a lot. Leo ring is also awesome with the greatsword.


Even if you're going way over 120, resistance is never worth it.
Consider that you have 130DEF at SL4 with 99 humanity and 11 resistance. If you bring resistance all the way up to 99, that only increases to 169DEF ! If you put all those levels into VIT instead, at 99 VIT, base resistance and 99 humanity you have 167 DEF... and a whole lot more health. Maybe if humanity and the other stats didn't increase your resistance it would have a purpose, but it really has none now.

1h or 2h? i was under the impression that at least the 2h roll attack does not receive leo ring bonus. 1h just seems better to me, and the lesser dmg is already offset by the leo ring. it's not like 2h dmg is going to 1hit kill anyone.

 

[Sullichin]

1h or 2h? i was under the impression that at least the 2h roll attack does not receive leo ring bonus. 1h just seems better to me, and the lesser dmg is already offset by the leo ring. it's not like 2h dmg is going to 1hit kill anyone.

Any attack that has thrust damage will get the leo ring bonus on a counter attack. Stabbing attacks on claymore, BSS and greatsword included. To get a counter you have to land an attack while they are still in their attack animation, which can actually be harder if you use a shield. If their attack rebounds off the shield and then you stab them, it won't count as a counter. If you stab them from behind your shield before their sword hits your shield, it will. If you're going to mid roll with decent armor in PVP, leo ring is an excellent choice as well, especially if the opponent is spamming attacks.

 

[ihearthawthats]

Any attack that has thrust damage will get the leo ring bonus on a counter attack. Stabbing attacks on claymore, BSS and greatsword included. To get a counter you have to land an attack while they are still in their attack animation, which can actually be harder if you use a shield. If their attack rebounds off the shield and then you stab them, it won't count as a counter. If you stab them from behind your shield before their sword hits your shield, it will. If you're going to mid roll with decent armor in PVP, leo ring is an excellent choice as well, especially if the opponent is spamming attacks.

in pve its recovery frames, which is a lot harder to land on certain enemies. but yes, i just did testing and the 2h roll attack works. it seems unreliable for pve though, at least without ninja flip. shield is definitely easiest to land counters for pve. the trick is just to use one with low deflection so they don't stagger. hitting them with shield up while their in the startup attack frames doesn't trigger leo.

in pvp, i believe its during any point of their attack animation? i haven't done much pvp on this chara yet because i'm still building him up, but i do hope it'll be easier to land counters than in pve.

 

[sixghost]

Any attack that has thrust damage will get the leo ring bonus on a counter attack. Stabbing attacks on claymore, BSS and greatsword included. To get a counter you have to land an attack while they are still in their attack animation, which can actually be harder if you use a shield. If their attack rebounds off the shield and then you stab them, it won't count as a counter. If you stab them from behind your shield before their sword hits your shield, it will. If you're going to mid roll with decent armor in PVP, leo ring is an excellent choice as well, especially if the opponent is spamming attacks.

I noticed when I was fighting Artorias and Gwyn that sometimes you can get a counterattack to trigger if you hit them as they are initiating a dodge. Does that ever happen in PvP or do the invincibility frames of the player character's dodge prevent that?

 

[H_Prestige]

Regarding poise. I prefer by far how the stunlock system works in Demon's. Going PvP without poise in Dark Souls is so much penalizing.

Pre-patch, this was true. But since the patch I feel anyone with heavier armor loses 9/10 times against the fast rollers. The old poise/r1 mashing strategy only works if you can match the opponents speed, which is what the dwgr used to allow. Now I can just run circles around those guys.

 

[Sullichin]

I noticed when I was fighting Artorias and Gwyn that sometimes you can get a counterattack to trigger if you hit them as they are initiating a dodge. Does that ever happen in PvP or do the invincibility frames of the player character's dodge prevent that?

You do more damage when you hit an opponent during a roll (if it's not during invincibility frames)/recovering from a kick/backstep/running, but these do not count as counters and aren't affected by the leo ring. But because of their range, many thrust weapons are great at hitting enemies during roll recovery anyway. This is the best video I've seen on the subject - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CQkuNC_YZgE#!

Pre-patch, this was true. But since the patch I feel anyone with heavier armor loses 9/10 times against the fast rollers. The old poise/r1 mashing strategy only works if you can match the opponents speed, which is what the dwgr used to allow. Now I can just run circles around those guys.

I think dex/fast rolling/flipping users get the advantage and are easier to play as, but mid-rolling builds with heavy weapons are very viable if you're good. Unlocking with heavy weapons can help

in pve its recovery frames, which is a lot harder to land on certain enemies. but yes, i just did testing and the 2h roll attack works. it seems unreliable for pve though, at least without ninja flip. shield is definitely easiest to land counters for pve. the trick is just to use one with low deflection so they don't stagger. hitting them with shield up while their in the startup attack frames doesn't trigger leo.

in pvp, i believe its during any point of their attack animation? i haven't done much pvp on this chara yet because i'm still building him up, but i do hope it'll be easier to land counters than in pve.

I don't really use leo ring in PVE, but I used it against a couple of bosses recently and I didn't even notice it. I'm sure it has its uses there but I like it for PVP. Fishing for a leo ring counter the whole fight isn't going to yield good results, but if it's a good time to use one and you get it, it's awesome.

 

[789shadow]

Me: "I'm going to go get the Rusted Iron Ring!"

Floor: "I'm going to break."

Stray Demon: "LMFAO you're dead."

Me:

 

[Deified Data]

Me: "I'm going to go get the Rusted Iron Ring!"

Floor: "I'm going to break."

Stray Demon: "LMFAO you're dead."

Me:

Guy's an asshole. Just strip off enough armor to fast roll and stay behind him at all times.

 

[789shadow]

Guy's an asshole. Just strip off enough armor to fast roll and stay behind him at all times.

I'm never getting that 16 humanity back.

Also, I didn't know that the Undead Burg Black Knight disappears after you reach a certain level (does it?)

 

[Deified Data]

I'm never getting that 16 humanity back.

Also, I didn't know that the Undead Burg Black Knight disappears after you reach a certain level (does it?)

Don't think so. Sure you didn't kill him? He never respawns.

 

[789shadow]

Don't think so. Sure you didn't kill him? He never respawns.

I never killed him. I am like SL 59, though.

 

[Booshka]

You do more damage when you hit an opponent during a roll (if it's not during invincibility frames)/recovering from a kick/backstep/running, but these do not count as counters and aren't affected by the leo ring. But because of their range, many thrust weapons are great at hitting enemies during roll recovery anyway. This is the best video I've seen on the subject - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CQkuNC_YZgE#!



I think dex/fast rolling/flipping users get the advantage and are easier to play as, but mid-rolling builds with heavy weapons are very viable if you're good. Unlocking with heavy weapons can help



I don't really use leo ring in PVE, but I used it against a couple of bosses recently and I didn't even notice it. I'm sure it has its uses there but I like it for PVP. Fishing for a leo ring counter the whole fight isn't going to yield good results, but if it's a good time to use one and you get it, it's awesome.

Leo Halberd is stupid easy, you don't even have to try to get the timing perfect, just fight normal and you are bound to get Leo counters that land for 700+ damage. Mid roll Leo Halberd builds with 53-76 poise are really hard to deal with.

 

[Deified Data]

I never killed him. I am like SL 59, though.

Weird. Did you ever engage him at all to get his ring? Maybe he fells off a ledge?

 

[789shadow]

Weird. Did you ever engage him at all to get his ring? Maybe he fells off a ledge?

I never even approached him, unless my memory is shitty.

 

[Booshka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mAdgKcQv-U

Never seen this before. From Software are unbelievable with their attention to detail.

 

[Deified Data]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mAdgKcQv-U

Never seen this before. From Software are unbelievable with their attention to detail.

Awesome, I heard this was a thing. Wonder how many other situational criticals there are.

 

[Laurentius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mAdgKcQv-U

Never seen this before. From Software are unbelievable with their attention to detail.

Haha, that's amazing.

 

[Sullichin]

Leo Halberd is stupid easy, you don't even have to try to get the timing perfect, just fight normal and you are bound to get Leo counters that land for 700+ damage. Mid roll Leo Halberd builds with 53-76 poise are really hard to deal with.

Was switching between a few Leo-friendly weapons on my quality build last night. You're right about the halberd, I probably got the most accidental-ish counters with that. Also used the greatsword and claymore a lot. Greatsword is awesome, but Claymore has such a versatile moveset and I don't have to sacrifice poise or a shield to mid roll with it. I've been having great success with the claymore, 64 poise and composite bow. It is very satisfying to win on a build like this against flipping magic and dex users.


I brought my quality build to SL120 to have 45/40/40 vit/str/dex instead of the 37/28/40 that it was before. I was doing fine at SL100 but I spent a lot of time upgrading weapons with this character, I wanted to see how they shine at 40/40. Now this one build can do everything (when it comes to weapons and not spells of course). The added 1H damage is appreciated especially on the claymore, and I have more 1H options open now like greataxe, DGM, BKGA. I backed up my save in case I want to revert to 100, but I'm getting just as much action at 120 so I probably won't.

 

[RMI]

Me: "I'm going to go get the Rusted Iron Ring!"

Floor: "I'm going to break."

Stray Demon: "LMFAO you're dead."

Me:

he's susceptible to bleed. I managed to beat the jerk by wearing the lightest fire resist armor possible to keep my encumbrance below 25%, and using the bandit knife to cause massive bleed damage.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mAdgKcQv-U

Never seen this before. From Software are unbelievable with their attention to detail.

Weird, I thought you were safe in the coffin (Titanite Demon can't attack you right?)

 

[krakov]

Weird, I thought you were safe in the coffin (Titanite Demon can't attack you right?)

It can, but it usually doesnt.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

That Quicklook moment where the Asylum Demon jumps up and destroys the player is still one of the funniest things on the net. If ever there was a moment to encapsulate a game, that's it

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/quick-look-dark-souls/2300-4966/

18:15

 

[Seanspeed]

Resistance would be an interesting stat if it added Poise. I think the fact that resistance gets ignored has a lot to do with people stopping at SL120. Points are just too valuable when you only have 110 or so to allocate. At some point, once your armor is all maxed out, resistance is the only way to increase your defense stats.

I think Resistance would be better if you didn't automatically get resistance bonuses when leveling up any other stat already. And give it a more substantial boost when you do level it.

 

[Deified Data]

he's susceptible to bleed. I managed to beat the jerk by wearing the lightest fire resist armor possible to keep my encumbrance below 25%, and using the bandit knife to cause massive bleed damage.

While his attack looks fire-based, it's actually magic-based. Just FYI.

Bleed is very effective. Any weapon that attacks fast with bleed is great for this fight.

 

[789shadow]

Fuck this stupid ass fucking drop-off next to the Hydra. How the fuck does it's attack push me FORWARD?

 

[Red Liquorice]

Fuck this stupid ass fucking drop-off next to the Hydra. How the fuck does it's attack push me FORWARD?

Find that sweet spot where you're far enough back, but still close enough for it to attack and not spit the magic.

I used to always cheese Hydra with arrows - there's a spot behind the tree near the shore where the magic splash-off won't hit you, or up atop the ladder - but it's become one of my favourite (mini)-boss battles, and I tend to do it earlier and earlier each run now. As soon as I get a +5 weapon, I'm down on the shore slicing heads off, always like to get Dusk's gear and gesture asap.

 

[Onion_Relish]

If youre talking about the basin hydra if you stand on the corpse is actually a pretty safe spot. One head will bump you but once its toast you're home free. From soft trolls making the safe zone on top of a dead guy

 

[The_Hitcher89]

What's the max level btw?

 

[Deified Data]

What's the max level btw?

709-713 depending on starting class.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

709-713 depending on starting class.

I'll be there in no time

Has anyone got there without exploits?

 

[Booshka]

I'll be there in no time

Has anyone got there without exploits?

I'm sure plenty of people have done it legit through PvP, but I'm sure there are only a few dedicated players that have leveled that high solely from PvE. When you get to the point where you play an entire NG+7 Scaled playthrough and still don't have enough Souls to level, it gets stupid hard to hold on to your bloodstain and grind out levels. I can't imagine having to play multiple playthroughs just to level up once. I leveled a character to level 280 legit in PvE, I started tiring of it after I would beat 2-3 bosses in a row on NG+7 difficulty, and putting avarice gear on after I beat a boss, and still not be able to level.

The best, non-cheating, but definitely exploiting way to level is to piggyback level off a friend. You host and summon a friend with red summon sign, kill your friend 10 or so times with avarice gear, then level, then you let him host and do the same to you. If you do it properly, it will never take more time to level because you guys are scaling together. It still takes forever, but it's definitely the best way to do it without having to cheat.

There is no real reason to level past 300 though, you can get every stat to its best scaling level and even a couple like Vitality and Endurance to 99. Once the gains for scaling start to tank, there is little incentive to level, and you ruin the online essentially because you are so out of level range of most players.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

I'm sure plenty of people have done it legit through PvP, but I'm sure there are only a few dedicated players that have leveled that high solely from PvE. When you get to the point where you play an entire NG+7 Scaled playthrough and still don't have enough Souls to level, it gets stupid hard to hold on to your bloodstain and grind out levels. I can't imagine having to play multiple playthroughs just to level up once. I leveled a character to level 280 legit in PvE, I started tiring of it after I would beat 2-3 bosses in a row on NG+7 difficulty, and putting avarice gear on after I beat a boss, and still not be able to level.

The best, non-cheating, but definitely exploiting way to level is to piggyback level off a friend. You host and summon a friend with red summon sign, kill your friend 10 or so times with avarice gear, then level, then you let him host and do the same to you. If you do it properly, it will never take more time to level because you guys are scaling together. It still takes forever, but it's definitely the best way to do it without having to cheat.

There is no real reason to level past 300 though, you can get every stat to its best scaling level and even a couple like Vitality and Endurance to 99. Once the gains for scaling start to tank, there is little incentive to level, and you ruin the online essentially because you are so out of level range of most players.

There should be an arena for players to fight in regardless of level. Just make it so you leave yours souls at the door, so to speak. At what Strength/Dexterity level would you say you can start one-shotting bosses, in general?

 

[Booshka]

There should be an arena for players to fight in regardless of level. Just make it so you leave yours souls at the door, so to speak. At what Strength/Dexterity level would you say you can start one-shotting bosses, in general?

The Forest is essentially that arena, you can level all you want and still PvP, but it gets real messy and the level ranges are all over the place.

One shotting bosses is an art, you have to do a lot of interesting things to do it, and it is only possible on your first playthrough, the bosses get too strong on NG+ and beyond. You will never be able to one shot a boss just because your Dexterity and Strength are both 99, you need to combine a lot of gear and build specifications to pull it off. There is a youtube guy that has a One shot challenge series. Vageta or something like that is his name, search for it if you are interested.