PetriP-TNT
Member
Not only I disagree on most of your gameplay complaints, I also feel that the thematic point of the game went over your head. :shrug
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Dark Souls |OT5| Definitely better than the sequel
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Not only I disagree on most of your gameplay complaints, I also feel that the thematic point of the game went over your head. :shrug
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The human NPC's are actually no more or less special than you. You can copy them exactly and even improve on them with the right stats and equipment.
You realize Undead respawning is a fundamental part of the game's lore, right?
The Chosen Undead ISN'T special. It's just a ruse to manipulate them into relighting the fire. There is no actual pre-ordained "Chosen Undead."
Ah okay I know that he works on sound alone as seen when you fight him with the slumbering dragoncrest ring on and he can't really fight back.
Because you aren't the chosen undead is just a lie to get you do something that others have failed to do so. There's armies of undead that died trying to what you did who merely went hollow. You can't go hollow as you as a character doesn't give up hope by beating the game.
Laurentius
Member
Exactly.
The Serpents and Gwyndolin are just looking for an undead who will amass enough souls and strength to be able to burn in the fire long enough by appealing to the undead's vanity with promises of "succeeding Lord Gwyn".
Both the serpents?
Laurentius
Member
Have you seen the Dark Lord ending?
Frampt and Kaathe are in on things together. They're playing both sides, so that you're manipulated into doing what they want either way.
Actually, I think Frampt is an erratic Serpent and working with Gwyn, while Kaethe and the rest of the Serpents are truly loyal to you, humanity, and the Dark. Gwyn must've cut a deal with Frampt or something, because the Serpents' goal is ostensibly to usher in the Age of Dark, whereas Frampt is trying to get you to continue the Age of Fire, which is also what Gwyn wants.
Laurentius
Member
Well, Gwyn is just a shell at this point, so if he's working with anybody it's Gwyndolin. Your theory is definitely a possibility, although I still like the idea that they're just playing both sides. (Which is part of the fun of Dark Souls lore, there's so many different ways to interpret things.) I just see it as the best explanation of the Dark Lord ending.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
So...the plan was to solo kill Biggie first, then kill Smalls last, because he was more fun to fight. I ended up realizing that I wanted to see the rest of the game...soooo, I summoned The Based Sun Gawd Solaire and we bodied both of them. Solaire is really fucking strong.
Got the Lordvessel finally. I'm farming humanity for the queen, to see if she opens that weird ass door that looks like it should be open, from me hitting it.
Got the Lordvessel finally. I'm farming humanity for the queen, to see if she opens that weird ass door that looks like it should be open, from me hitting it.
But how are they working with gwyndolin if they get you to let the fire die out
Laurentius
Member
My guess is they're possibly playing Gwyndolin as well. Gwyndolin believes Frampt is working with him, but they may just be manipulating him as well. Their end goal is anybody's guess, though.
I assume they win whatever the Chosen Undead chooses. Since we don't exactly know what happens immediately after the ending, we've only got speculation.
Seeing as the serpents seem to be denizens of the Dark (Kaathe lives there with no ill effects, and tricked Oolacile to spread it), they definitely benefit from the Dark Lord ending. Linking the fire fixes nothing, but only puts off the Dark for a while, so they lose nothing from that either. Maybe Frampt has a fix with Gwyndolin/other gods to get something from helping them?
'Course, the flow of time is wonky as hell in Lordran, so the two serpents might be the one and the same from two different time-periods. Probably not though. Maybe an entity that can move freely in time in the confines of Lordran.. Naaah.
'Course, the flow of time is wonky as hell in Lordran, so the two serpents might be the one and the same from two different time-periods. Probably not though. Maybe an entity that can move freely in time in the confines of Lordran.. Naaah.
Laurentius
Member
Good points.
As to your last paragraph,
I remember reading some theory saying that Frampt and Kaathe are literally two heads of the same serpent. Like, Frampt is on one end and Kaathe is on the other.
Literally no evidence for that, but it's kind of a funny image. =D
Literally no evidence for that, but it's kind of a funny image. =D
There is one piece of evidence that might support it: Both serpents will know who you went to see first with the Lord Vessel. Granted they might just have a peek in the Vessel -room, but still.
If they are but two heads of a larger being, then the Dark Lord -endings serpents are as well. So some kind of a creepy human/hydra hybrid? Ew.
If they are but two heads of a larger being, then the Dark Lord -endings serpents are as well. So some kind of a creepy human/hydra hybrid? Ew.
The Games for Gold version is kinda weird.
- Can't see how many souls I need to level up.
- I definitely feel like I'm getting far less souls. I'm SL9 after beating Taurus Demon and I have spent almost all my souls on leveling like, two levels and buying the Scimitar.
- Almost to none messages from other players.
Should have bought the PC version instead.
- Can't see how many souls I need to level up.
- I definitely feel like I'm getting far less souls. I'm SL9 after beating Taurus Demon and I have spent almost all my souls on leveling like, two levels and buying the Scimitar.
- Almost to none messages from other players.
Should have bought the PC version instead.
The Games for Gold version is kinda weird.
- Can't see how many souls I need to level up.
- I definitely feel like I'm getting far less souls. I'm SL9 after beating Taurus Demon and I have spent almost all my souls on leveling like, two levels and buying the Scimitar.
- Almost to none messages from other players.
Should have bought the PC version instead.
I heard some rumours that it's a completely unpatched version of the game, or something to that effect. Haven't looked into it though.
The amount of souls need to level up increases as you level up.
palpabl_purpura
Member
okay, I guess it's just not a game for everyone. I did give it 141 hours according to steam, so it may be a matter of wanting to move on.
OdysseusVA
Banned
The Games for Gold version is kinda weird.
- Can't see how many souls I need to level up.
- I definitely feel like I'm getting far less souls. I'm SL9 after beating Taurus Demon and I have spent almost all my souls on leveling like, two levels and buying the Scimitar.
- Almost to none messages from other players.
Should have bought the PC version instead.
Some differences noted by Booshka in the GwG thread
The Games for Gold version is kinda weird.
- Can't see how many souls I need to level up.
- I definitely feel like I'm getting far less souls. I'm SL9 after beating Taurus Demon and I have spent almost all my souls on leveling like, two levels and buying the Scimitar.
- Almost to none messages from other players.
Should have bought the PC version instead.
Ya, it's version 1.0 of the game. Soul payout is lower and the game is overall harder and more confusing/rough around the edges.
Laurentius
Member
Does this mean Ninja-Flipping Havel's will make a return? =O
Yeah, fair enough. The game isn't for everyone, for sure, and I can understand your criticisms of the game (even if I don't agree). And you actually gave it a fair chance (unlike a lot of people that write it off!).
Yeah, fair enough. The game isn't for everyone, for sure, and I can understand your criticisms of the game (even if I don't agree). And you actually gave it a fair chance (unlike a lot of people that write it off!).
OdysseusVA
Banned
I'm about to jump in... Best class for a newcomer? Pyro? Knight?
Laurentius
Member
Starting class doesn't make as big of a difference as you might think, as any starting class can take on any role depending on what stats you level up. And all of the starting gear for all of the classes can be found later in the game.
I say pick the one that looks the most fun to you.
EDIT: And the obligatory "Tips for Beginners":
Some really good stuff on there. Especially the last tip. Oh god, please remember the last tip.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Good to know. Thanks!
Yup, I already cleared the game on PS3
, what I mean is, I can't see the red number that says how many souls you need for the next level, it's just gathering enough to upgrade or something.Unpatched version? I knew it, right outside Undead Burg the undead soldiers gang up on you, even the guy throwing firebombs drops and things get hectic in the first shack right after the first bonfire.
Black Knight was a hassle to kill as well. Let's see how much I can progress in this 'hard mode'.
Laurentius
Member
Have fun!
Sorry to interrupt the lore discussion (which I am enjoying a lot, by the way). I killed the Iron Golem (which was way harder for me than I expected, probably the boss that's given me the most trouble so far) and was taken to Anor Londo.
So, two things:
1. Wow.
2. Am I supposed to be here? I checked the whole place, killed a gargoyle, and found nothing but armored big guys, and an orange light gate . I'm at a loss as to where to go next.
So, two things:
1. Wow.
2. Am I supposed to be here? I checked the whole place, killed a gargoyle, and found nothing but armored big guys, and an orange light gate . I'm at a loss as to where to go next.
Yep you are meant to be at Anor Londo now. You killed the gargoyle that took you there? As for where to go go down the spiral elevator opposite to the bonfire.
Oh shit just realized this was a games for gold title. The dashboard had the Saints Row 3 logo advertised and it still showed as free so I was confused. It's not free anymore so I should've got SR3 when I had the chance and had both it and Dark Souls
I'm new to Dark Souls, so besides the tip list above, anything else I should know? In particular, is it possible in this game that if I've died so damn much, I lose all my abilities or something and it'd be better to just start over?
I'm new to Dark Souls, so besides the tip list above, anything else I should know? In particular, is it possible in this game that if I've died so damn much, I lose all my abilities or something and it'd be better to just start over?
Once you take the elevator down, look to your left. There's a thin path that you need to take.
Oh shit just realized this was a games for gold title. The dashboard had the Saints Row 3 logo advertised and it still showed as free so I was confused. It's not free anymore so I should've got SR3 when I had the chance and had both it and Dark Souls
I'm new to Dark Souls, so besides the tip list above, anything else I should know? In particular, is it possible in this game that if I've died so damn much, I lose all my abilities or something and it'd be better to just start over?
You only lose your accrued souls and humanity if you die twice in a row without getting your lost souls back. Aside from that, there is no penalty for dying a whole bunch of times. Except premature gray hairs and broken controllers. You can always farm humanities and souls back again.
On PC there are hackers who can royally mess your character up, but there are ways around that as well.
Edit: One tip here: Don't kill the NPCs, no matter what the player-written messages advise you to do. A friend followed their advice on his first playthrough and locked himself out of most Miracles.
No, a Gargoyle like the ones that were on the roof of the Parish.
I'll check for this thin path, I didn't see anything at first. Thanks!
OdysseusVA
Banned
I totally just tried to kill the boss with my broken sword after the very first bonfire lol Good thing I noticed the doorway.
Laurentius
Member
Enjoy Anor Londo! It is a wondrous place.
Haha, classic! I would bet about 50% of players have done that. (Those that didn't watch playthroughs beforehand, that is. Which is the best way to play, since there are so many surprises that should be experienced firsthand.)
Red Liquorice
Member
You don't lose anything by dying - just your souls and humanity (the number top left).
Basic tips are just to be cautious and considered overall, look around for environmental clues, secrets and hazards. When entering new areas have your shield up but also watch your stamina (green bar) management - it regenerates slower when holding your shield up. If you block a hit with no stamina you will get stunned and staggered.
Souls are currency right? Like if I keep dying and losing souls, will there be a point that if I don't have enough upgrades bought I'm screwed?
Thanks I'll keep that in mind!
Laurentius
Member
Souls are used as currency and for leveling up. No, you won't be screwed if you keep dying and losing souls. Souls come and go easily, and you get tons from beating bosses.
You should generally be spending your souls rather than keeping them on you. That'll mean you rarely ever lose many. So once you get a stack of them, go and level up, upgrade weapons, or buy items. But if you lose a bunch it's really not a big deal at all. Worst case you have to farm some more for awhile.
Oh I see, spending them does make a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying
I started with Black Firebombs on my first playthrough, so I actually killed the Asylum Demon the first time around; didn't even know it was supposed to be a hopeless battle until future playthroughs.
Let me tell you a dirty little secret:
There is no prophesied chosen undead.
Frampt and Gwyndolin (Gwyn's youngest son) spread the legend of the chosen undead throughout the human lands so that millions of undead would come to Lordran to ring the bells, believing themselves to be "chosen." Entire armies of undead marched into Lordran and went hollow trying to ring the bells or brave Sen's. Frampt and Gwyndolin were counting on the fact that only the strongest, bravest, and most resourceful undead, one with a grand soul rivaling Gwyn's, would be able to pass all their challenges (Ring the bells, conquer Sen's, and defeat Ornstein and Smough). And that amazing undead would then be able to conquer the remaining lords to open the kiln and replace Gwyn as fuel for the fire, burning their now grand soul alive. At some point though, the fire will begin to die again and Frampt will try to coax another "chosen undead" into succeeding you. The only way to end the cycle is to exit the Kiln and let the world fall into an inevitable dark uncertainty.
In Dark Souls, you aren't born a legend, you earn your legendary status, and perhaps even become the king of another time for it. Same with Demon's Souls, same with Dark Souls 2.
Frampt and Gwyndolin (Gwyn's youngest son) spread the legend of the chosen undead throughout the human lands so that millions of undead would come to Lordran to ring the bells, believing themselves to be "chosen." Entire armies of undead marched into Lordran and went hollow trying to ring the bells or brave Sen's. Frampt and Gwyndolin were counting on the fact that only the strongest, bravest, and most resourceful undead, one with a grand soul rivaling Gwyn's, would be able to pass all their challenges (Ring the bells, conquer Sen's, and defeat Ornstein and Smough). And that amazing undead would then be able to conquer the remaining lords to open the kiln and replace Gwyn as fuel for the fire, burning their now grand soul alive. At some point though, the fire will begin to die again and Frampt will try to coax another "chosen undead" into succeeding you. The only way to end the cycle is to exit the Kiln and let the world fall into an inevitable dark uncertainty.
In Dark Souls, you aren't born a legend, you earn your legendary status, and perhaps even become the king of another time for it. Same with Demon's Souls, same with Dark Souls 2.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Gotcha. My misunderstanding. So I should kill Gwyndolin, since he is using me and I have no intent of using the Darkmoon blade. Also, if Gwynovere is just an illusion, why does killing her make Anor Londo dark?
Maybe I'll try co-op. I played the whole game solo. Is there a way to do co-op without entering PvP?
Orochinagis
Member
No,
one wants to ends the flame era and gives human the power of free will trought humanity chaos nature and the other wants to renew the fire giving power of the ones who are bound to the flame fueling the flame itselft with humans. There is no real indication of who was that serpent who tricked oolalice but pretty much screw up gwyn plans
The ones who elaborated the chosen undead were frampt and gwyn to lure the undead into relink the fire and keep the power to the gods but none of them counted the heavy loss of artorias,the failure of making a new flame, the flame quickly fading and the gods sudden departure without counting seath madness in his venture of inmortality
The ones who elaborated the chosen undead were frampt and gwyn to lure the undead into relink the fire and keep the power to the gods but none of them counted the heavy loss of artorias,the failure of making a new flame, the flame quickly fading and the gods sudden departure without counting seath madness in his venture of inmortality
Dark souls 2 was more like every npc is own its own agenda and you are another npc doing your stuff, such less impact that using your brain in DS1 and discover the real truth
Laurentius
Member
The Dark Lord ending casts ambiguity on the bolded portion of your spoiler tag. That's what it seems like at first, but it definitely seems
that Frampt and Kaathe are working together towards something else. Pretending to be have differing goals, but just playing both sides for their own means.
There's a DS2 lore thread, not sure about a DS1 thread. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are not related at all.
Orochinagis
Member
Not connected at all, DS series were made to work in a non exclusive game in multiplatforms unlike demon souls that is an exclusive title for sony
before they become greedy and gave theirs back to microsoft and fully support sony in DS2
OdysseusVA
Banned
Heh
I wish there was a way to change the button configuration. Kept dying in the graveyard by mistakenly pressing X to attack. Got through the Asylum Demon without dying tho
It's heavily implied that the "toothy serpent" that Marvellous Chester talks about is Kaathe, since he's the only serpent we know of who wants to actively spread the Dark. Of course there are dozens of them, so who knows.
The "Chosen Undead" is a hoax cooked up by Gwyndolin/Frampt, so if they're lying about that, why can't Frampt be duplicitous about his alliance with Gwyndolin as well? Or maybe he truly is a traitor to the rest of the serpents (who seem to be uniformly behind the Dark Lord -ending).
The "Chosen Undead" is a hoax cooked up by Gwyndolin/Frampt, so if they're lying about that, why can't Frampt be duplicitous about his alliance with Gwyndolin as well? Or maybe he truly is a traitor to the rest of the serpents (who seem to be uniformly behind the Dark Lord -ending).
Lies and treachery all around! I'm really sad that there are only passing references to the serpents in DkS2.
Shrine of Winter, if that's what the statue is referring to.
Ah, the graveyard, where are new players come to die. Might want to look around a bit more.Heh
I wish there was a way to change the button configuration. Kept dying in the graveyard by mistakenly pressing X to attack. Got through the Asylum Demon without dying tho
Well, Gwyndolin's using you to keep the gods in power... But the age of dark means the end of the old order and potentially a darwinian survival-of-the-fittest world. Darkstalker Kaathe wanted the age of dark to come, and so he gave the undead of New Londo the power of lifedrain and they became monsters in their hunger for power. There is also the DLC, which implies the dark "age of man" could end up having humans lose their minds as the power of the dark soul goes out of control.
Attacking Gwynevere makes Anor Londo go dark because striking her means you saw through the illusion and Gwyndolin has no reason to uphold it. The light in Anor Londo is just another illusion, made to make you think the gods haven't abandoned it. Same with all the enemies.
Attacking Gwynevere makes Anor Londo go dark because striking her means you saw through the illusion and Gwyndolin has no reason to uphold it. The light in Anor Londo is just another illusion, made to make you think the gods haven't abandoned it. Same with all the enemies.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Ah, the graveyard, where are new players come to die. Might want to look around a bit more.
I keep going there in an attempt to get the hang of the combat. And yeah, found the weapons. Currently two-handing the Winged Spear cuz I'm awesome like that.
Edit: Nearly died because it does, like, 1 damage lol Back to the axe.