Dating-Age |OT3| Positivity, Confidence, and Not Being a "Nice" Guy

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You are hot.

If only that was enough. I lack the spontaneous alpha male attitude. I'm too cerebral and timid. Not many girls want to be with a guy who looks nice but acts even nicer.

As usual DY is posting awesome advice but I need to practice spinning everything as positive. Actually, there are a lot of things I need to practice. Just gotta focus on the mental aspect.
 
If only that was enough. I lack the spontaneous alpha male attitude. I'm too cerebral and timid. Not many girls want to be with a guy who looks nice but acts even nicer.

As usual DY is posting awesome advice but I need to practice spinning everything as positive. Actually, there are a lot of things I need to practice. Just gotta focus on the mental aspect.

Well, I definitely know where you're coming from with that. Just keep in mind that not every woman is looking for a guy to take the lead every single step of the way. Hell, some that do only ask guys to do so because they don't know where the fuck they're going themselves.

But while talking to people, keep basic things like age in mind because it will often have a lot to do with the theme and direction of the conversation. You should always be more willing to let someone talk (its easier, less likely that you'd fuck yourself up by saying something stupid... just a good habit to have as you can always fall back on that), but the age thing comes into play because older people will usually have a more clear definition of what they want.
 
Well, I definitely know where you're coming from with that. Just keep in mind that not every woman is looking for a guy to take the lead every single step of the way. Hell, some that do only ask guys to do so because they don't know where the fuck they're going themselves.

But while talking to people, keep basic things like age in mind because it will often have a lot to do with the theme and direction of the conversation. You should always be more willing to let someone talk (its easier, less likely that you'd fuck yourself up by saying something stupid... just a good habit to have as you can always fall back on that), but the age thing comes into play because older people will usually have a more clear definition of what they want.

I wish my problem was solely focused on girls but it seems a people problem in general. I don't think 90% of people I meet really respect me or feel like I have much to offer. Which is why I have acquaintances but not many friends to do stuff with.
 
I wish my problem was solely focused on girls but it seems a people problem in general. I don't 90% of people I meet really respect me or feel like I have much to offer. Which is why I have acquaintances but not many friends to do stuff with.

That doesn't make sense to me. You're definitely a smart guy at least, and that brings something to the table. The thing about respect is that sometimes you can't earn it, you just have to take it. If someone makes a rib, you make a rib right back, but always be mindful of their seriousness. They will see you can take a joke, and dish one back without getting personal. People are willing to take a lot of stuff as long as you're friendly about it, and they respect you for it. Just know their limits, and yours. If they make a joke about something a little too much, or a little too personal, make sure to tell them it's not cool, but don't completely rain-down on the party, just be smooth and controller about it. Never make a scene.

Also, people like when you know what you're talking about, but never go overboard. Like I said, you're a smart guy, just don't ever go too in-depth or far into a particular subject, unless it's a special conversation. Nobody wants to be that guy that's on the family-sitcom that over-explains everything. That's never fun, and it's always a conversation killer.

If you want to be funnier, I suggest just start watching a lot of stand-up. Don't just take jokes word for word, or even templates, but just sit back and think about what they're saying, and more importantly, how they are saying it. I think a lot of comedians look at the world in a very unique, interesting way, but it just luckily happens to be very funny at the same time. Try and emulate that, but own it in your own way.

If you want to do stuff with people more, that seek and sought after junk actually applies. If you're having a good time, and some dude is telling you that you need to come to parties at their place or friend's frat house, club, whatever, just play it cool and keep telling them that it sounds like a good time. Always give them a "Yeah, maybe. That sounds good." Always play it cool.
 
That doesn't make sense to me. You're definitely a smart guy at least, and that brings something to the table. The thing about respect is that sometimes you can't earn it, you just have to take it. If someone makes a rib, you make a rib right back, but always be mindful of their seriousness. They will see you can take a joke, and dish one back without getting personal. People are willing to take a lot of stuff as long as you're friendly about it, and they respect you for it. Just know their limits, and yours. If they make a joke about something a little too much, or a little too personal, make sure to tell them it's not cool, but don't completely rain-down on the party, just be smooth and controller about it. Never make a scene.

Also, people like when you know what you're talking about, but never go overboard. Like I said, you're a smart guy, just don't ever go too in-depth or far into a particular subject, unless it's a special conversation. Nobody wants to be that guy that's on the family-sitcom that over-explains everything. That's never fun, and it's always a conversation killer.

If you want to be funnier, I suggest just start watching a lot of stand-up. Don't just take jokes word for word, or even templates, but just sit back and think about what they're saying, and more importantly, how they are saying it. I think a lot of comedians look at the world in a very unique, interesting way, but it just luckily happens to be very funny at the same time. Try and emulate that, but own it in your own way.

If you want to do stuff with people more, that seek and sought after junk actually applies. If you're having a good time, and some dude is telling you that you need to come to parties at their place or friend's frat house, club, whatever, just play it cool and keep telling them that it sounds like a good time. Always give them a "Yeah, maybe. That sounds good." Always play it cool.

If it doesn't make sense to you then imagine how I feel. I know I can make people laugh because I've done it before, I know I can keep up with smart conversations, I'm somewhat well cultured so I got different topics to talk about and yet here I am. I think they can just sense that deep down I still get nervous and stuff. I also need to work on body language since I got some bad habits.

But the way you guys describe my looks there's no way it should be this hard right? I mean surely I'm not fucking up that badly when I open my mouth.
 
If it doesn't make sense to you then imagine how I feel. I know I can make people laugh because I've done it before, I know I can keep up with smart conversations, I'm somewhat well cultured so I got different topics to talk about and yet here I am. I think they can just sense that deep down I still get nervous and stuff.

I know Gaf and I disagree, but if you fake it you make it. People really can't tell as long as you're being funny and interesting. Be a little controversial, be a little biting. Say things that are on your mind that might not always fit the social whatever. Don't do anything too outlandish or strange, but don't afraid to be bold.

Trust me, I may not know dating, but I know people. Also make sure to LISTEN. This is what is always key when talking with men or women. Everyone wants to be heard. Make sure to give them visual signals such as head-nods and the occasional "yeah." Also, make sure to jump in at points where they least expect it, because most people subconsciously think that talking is like a boring match of tennis, where one hits/speaks, and the other listens/waits to retort. When you jump in and give your view, they notice that you're listening. Just don't be rude about it though. You'll know the right spots though, don't worry.

With that in mind, people love to talk about themselves. It's in our nature. Make sure to always indulge in other's lives. I personally love talking with people, it's kind of weird actually, but I can listen and listen and I usually don't get bored. Just make sure that they know you actually are paying attention and give a shit. Eye contact here is key.
 
Great post, I just wish I lived the "college experience".

Ugh.
While I'm going to have awesome memories for the rest of my life because of college... it's not necessarily what you see in movies.

Just because you go to college, rush a fraternity, hit up all the parties, etc; doesn't mean you're going to get laid or become a star like the characters in those films you see. Take it from me, first hand.
I wish my problem was solely focused on girls but it seems a people problem in general. I don't think 90% of people I meet really respect me or feel like I have much to offer. Which is why I have acquaintances but not many friends to do stuff with.
I believe it's partly because of our age bracket (style over substance, when it comes to girls' taste in men) and the fact we still need to improve our flirtatious skill/edginess.
 
I wish my problem was solely focused on girls but it seems a people problem in general. I don't think 90% of people I meet really respect me or feel like I have much to offer. Which is why I have acquaintances but not many friends to do stuff with.
This is such a fucking good thing I wish I could buy you a beer right now damnit YES.

The fact that you realize this puts you so far ahead of the curve. Why? Because women are people too. If you realize you have a problem, you can address it. You already made it clear that a) you see the issue clearly and b) you want to address and fix it. Some people will act like their shit doesn't stink all day then go and recommend cologne to everyone they know. Don't ever be that guy. That guy should put his head in a toilet and flush forever.

But are you in college or what? What's your current social setting like? Often times, you're just in the wrong spot and don't have a way to branch out.
 
Also, it's always good to have a solid nuclei of friends at the end of the day. It's good to keep meeting more and more people and getting more friends, but at the end of the day it's best to have just some real good friends that you talk to about anything with, and that will always be there for me.

This has been a problem for me as well that I'm trying to cope with, as I went to a college that none of my friends did. It's tough because I like to hang out with them on weekends or days I don't have work, but they're not there on-campus, or around where I live.
 
Good luck Rising Star.

You will rock it out.

The worst thing you can do is over-think it. You will psych yourself out.

Enjoy your time...Enjoy any awkwardness. Smile and know that first dates are universal. She knows that, and so do you.

thanks, yeah I just gotta approach it with a clear mind, should be interesting.
 
Had plans to meet up with a girl for a first date tonight. We were going to the beach, go karting, and then dinner. I go out of my way to pick her up. She jumps in the car and then 5 minutes later says she's not feeling it. I pull over and she jumps out. Ouch!!!
 
But are you in college or what? What's your current social setting like? Often times, you're just in the wrong spot and don't have a way to branch out.

I'm in junior college right now. I'm trying to leave as soon as I can because I despise my hometown. You just show up for class and go home and home is suburbia for miles and miles with nothing to do. This place is pretty much built like a social networking trap, if you can't network then you're an outcast. Even the places people go to at night they all go in groups. I guess I could drive to LA to find places but I'm not sure how I would fare trying to do all this stuff alone.
 
I go to college, and commute, so I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I know it's a bit awkward at first, but just try and see if you can talk to some people in your classes. Just make small talk if nothing else.

I don't know if you dig them, but sports have always been a good in for me when meeting people. I love all sports, and most people in my area also do, so it's a nice talking point, and there's always stuff to talk about.

Just be friendly and cool about it and you'll be talking with people at no time, and soon getting invited out and meeting more people.
 
Had plans to meet up with a girl for a first date tonight. We were going to the beach, go karting, and then dinner. I go out of my way to pick her up. She jumps in the car and then 5 minutes later says she's not feeling it. I pull over and she jumps out. Ouch!!!

What did you do to her in that car?
 
I go to college, and commute, so I'm in a somewhat similar situation. I know it's a bit awkward at first, but just try and see if you can talk to some people in your classes. Just make small talk if nothing else.

I don't know if you dig them, but sports have always been a good in for me when meeting people. I love all sports, and most people in my area also do, so it's a nice talking point, and there's always stuff to talk about.

Just be friendly and cool about it and you'll be talking with people at no time, and soon getting invited out and meeting more people.

I do talk to people in my classes but I guess it never goes anywhere. As far as sports go don't even get me started. I freaking love sports but sports don't love me. I make a fool out of myself out there all the time and one thing I've learned about guys is that they put a lot of emphasis on physical abilities/muscle/etc so sometimes if I meet someone I try to avoid having them see me playing sports. I'll keep trying all this but it kind of sucks when you try all these things but it doesn't work out the way you want. Boy would it be sweet if I was good at basketball and could dunk and stuff like that, but oh well.
 
I do talk to people in my classes but I guess it never goes anywhere. As far as sports go don't even get me started. I freaking love sports but sports don't love me. I make a fool out of myself out there all the time and one thing I've learned about guys is that they put a lot of emphasis on physical abilities/muscle/etc so sometimes if I meet someone I try to avoid having them see me playing sports. I'll keep trying this all but it kind of sucks when you start running out of options.

No, I don't mean even playing sports, I mean just talking about sports. Also I know it's tough talking to people in classes, you just have to let it grow over the semester a lot of the time, and even then it may just be some friendly small-talk.
 
No, I don't mean even playing sports, I mean just talking about sports. Also I know it's tough talking to people in classes, you just have to let it grow over the semester a lot of the time, and even then it may just be some friendly small-talk.

Yeah like I put it some posts back. I got a lot of acquaintances but not many friends.
 
If you keep talking to people, one day something will just click with somebody. What do you like to do, hobby wise, or really just other then school/work?
 
Again, I'm not a fan of trying to read people's minds and molding approaches to fit the person you're trying to hook up with. Because that is exactly what is happening most of the time for some of the people here - you're bending over backwards to give someone the "right" answers like its a bioware game or something.

It is definitely in most people's best interest to keep options open and see a lot of people instead of trying to find one perfect person. When you've got your shit together, you don't need to worry about one girl turning down your resume. And its really not even about being popular - its more about putting yourself out there. It works for both sexes too. If your shit is straight, it speaks for itself - and if you broadcast that you're single AND LOOKING FOR "FRIENDS" then the work will almost do itself.

But people keep looking for the shortcut of not getting their own shit straightened out first and trying to talk people into liking them or trying to read the pauses between their words. Because if you do actually get things started with some person, how the hell are you going to keep that act up? You're not a mind reader, and you're not the person you're trying to pretend to be in the first place. That kind of thing is only good for a quick hook up - but some people just aren't even in the right kind of mind frame or position to do that sort of thing.

I think a lot of it is habitual and behavioral though, and if you're really messed up and you need to make some friends (starting with few or none) you're going to have to manually tone down your neediness. Sometimes changing your behavior first leads to success in and of itself. Certainly a creepy guy that needs some experience with people won't have success until he changes his behavior first.

I think there's also something to be said for results following behavior though, although I don't have any real analysis or studies to prove it, people definitely treat you better which directly results in you feeling better.

It's like exercising, you change how you act then you get the results. It's that initial effort of willpower that gets you success.

People can and should act better than they are, just don't go too far.

Well, just had date 3, or 2.5, with the girl I met online roughly two weeks ago. She came over to my place, made pancakes and after dinner we headed towards the beach to get some fresh air and enjoy the setting sun with a bottle of wine. After a long chat we proceeded with a huge make-out session, which, needless to say, was a lot of fun. However, I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm a terrible kisser (usually I'm drunk when making out, this time not some much). Like I seriously feel that I'm shit at it. Not quite sure how to mend this new found problem.

Damn you got a real flair for the romantic. Also, you apparently have access to a beach.

Had plans to meet up with a girl for a first date tonight. We were going to the beach, go karting, and then dinner. I go out of my way to pick her up. She jumps in the car and then 5 minutes later says she's not feeling it. I pull over and she jumps out. Ouch!!!

Damn. First thing I wonder is if she's scared. That's a lot for a first date. Is this your first time meeting this girl?
 
If you keep talking to people, one day something will just click with somebody. What do you like to do, hobby wise, or really just other then school/work?

My list of hobbies is not extensive unfortunately. I play ball, I go to the gym, I try to swim and go to the beach, I'm really into style/fashion but I'm not sure that counts. I like martial arts but I haven't found a good place to go yet. I'm a casual fan of gaming/computers. I feel like I don't really fit in with any one group, I'm not macho enough for tough guys/avid sports fans but I'm also not nerdy enough to be hanging around nerdy types of people.
 
My list of hobbies is not extensive unfortunately. I play ball, I go to the gym, I try to swim and go to the beach, I'm really into style/fashion but I'm not sure that counts. I like martial arts but I haven't found a good place to go yet. I'm a casual fan of gaming/computers. I feel like I don't really fit in with any one group, I'm not macho enough for tough guys/avid sports fans but I'm also not nerdy enough to be hanging around nerdy types of people.

I met a bunch of friends at the gym, I think you could too. Some dudes came up and asked me about form or something on a certain lift, or for a spot. It's just little stuff, and then you shoot the shit and see where it goes from there. There's all kinds of people at the gym too, so I really do think you could find someone.

I'm like you though about nerdy stuff. I really love nerdy shit, but I really don't care for the people that like it. That's not some kind of dig, but they just don't usually click with me. I like that stuff, but I usually just keep it to myself unless someone asks about it specifically.
 
Damn. First thing I wonder is if she's scared. That's a lot for a first date. Is this your first time meeting this girl?

Scared of what? First time we met but we've been talking for the past couple of weeks.

Her exact words were "I want to be up front with you but I just don't feel any chemistry"

I really think she wanted to hang with her friends instead (go to first Friday). If she would have called me and told me that I would've been fine with it.
 
Scared of what? First time we met but we've been talking for the past couple of weeks.

Her exact words were "I want to be up front with you but I just don't feel any chemistry"

I really think she wanted to hang with her friends instead (go to first Friday). If she would have called me and told me that I would've been fine with it.

Scared of being taken to an alley and raped and killed? Not saying anything about you at all, it's a girl thing. Some girls are like that, and I know not one girl has ever asked me to pick her up for a first date. I've had girls ride buses for 40 minutes or even longer to meet up over having me pick them up. It's a real thing.

Had she seen pictures of you before? That's a real quick chemistry call. Makes me think she was flustered out of fear.

I don't think you did anything wrong anyways.
 
I honestly don't blame girls for being extra cautious, I would be too if I was one. Especially when dealing with meeting someone over the internet or something, a lot of the time you have no idea what you're getting in to.
 
I met a bunch of friends at the gym, I think you could too. Some dudes came up and asked me about form or something on a certain lift, or for a spot. It's just little stuff, and then you shoot the shit and see where it goes from there. There's all kinds of people at the gym too, so I really do think you could find someone.

I'm like you though about nerdy stuff. I really love nerdy shit, but I really don't care for the people that like it. That's not some kind of dig, but they just don't usually click with me. I like that stuff, but I usually just keep it to myself unless someone asks about it specifically.

I hope so man. Maybe when I look like I know what I'm doing in there I'll fit in with those guys more.
 
I hope so man. Maybe when I look like I know what I'm doing in there I'll fit in with those guys more.

Give it time. Working out requires patience and a lot of it. Not only for proper results, but also for just learning how to do correct form and what not. As for meeting people, if you get better/stronger, people will take notice, and start coming up to you. That's happened several times to me, earbuds in and all. Just give it time man.
 
I met a bunch of friends at the gym, I think you could too. Some dudes came up and asked me about form or something on a certain lift, or for a spot. It's just little stuff, and then you shoot the shit and see where it goes from there. There's all kinds of people at the gym too, so I really do think you could find someone.

I'm like you though about nerdy stuff. I really love nerdy shit, but I really don't care for the people that like it. That's not some kind of dig, but they just don't usually click with me. I like that stuff, but I usually just keep it to myself unless someone asks about it specifically.

I am the exact same way. Don't really understand it but I don't try to fit in to groups that like nerdy things. I hide it most of the time and let a little out to people randomly if something comes up in normal conversation.
 
I am the exact same way. Don't really understand it but I don't try to fit in to groups that like nerdy things. I hide it most of the time and let a little out to people randomly if something comes up in normal conversation.

Do you play it cool as well? That's what I usually do. I wouldn't say I'm embarrassed of it, more like I know it's just not something that the friends I have like, nor is it something I really would want to talk to them about.
 
Scared of being taken to an alley and raped and killed? Not saying anything about you at all, it's a girl thing. Some girls are like that, and I know not one girl has ever asked me to pick her up for a first date. I've had girls ride buses for 40 minutes or even longer to meet up over having me pick them up. It's a real thing.

Had she seen pictures of you before? That's a real quick chemistry call. Makes me think she was flustered out of fear.

I don't think you did anything wrong anyways.

She had seen pictures of me. One of them was the same pic as my avatar. I usually don't pick up girls for the first date but she doesnt drive so I asked if she wanted me to pick her or meet her somewhere.
 
Do you play it cool as well? That's what I usually do. I wouldn't say I'm embarrassed of it, more like I know it's just not something that the friends I have like, nor is it something I really would want to talk to them about.

That is exactly what I do. I know my friends aren't interested in talking about games or nerdy stuff so I play ignorant when it comes up in conversation with other people. I do the same when people try and talk religion or politics with me. Just nod and agree and walk away.
 
She had seen pictures of me. One of them was the same pic as my avatar. I usually don't pick up girls for the first date but she doesnt drive so I asked if she wanted me to pick her or meet her somewhere.

Yeah, unless you had something weird with your car like condom wrappers, a handgun, body parts... you know, I think it had to be fear, unless she's completely nuts.

I mean really when you have a long list of plans (did you tell her?) at the very least you're going to have some level of control of what she can do for a long period of time. Might not have been outright fear as much as 'get out of here now so if the date turns sour later I don't have to stick around doing a ton of stuff'.
 
I'm in junior college right now. I'm trying to leave as soon as I can because I despise my hometown. You just show up for class and go home and home is suburbia for miles and miles with nothing to do. This place is pretty much built like a social networking trap, if you can't network then you're an outcast. Even the places people go to at night they all go in groups. I guess I could drive to LA to find places but I'm not sure how I would fare trying to do all this stuff alone.

I hear you.

The hometown thing kinda... I don't know how else to put it other than it held me back in a lot of ways. Its really hard to change your image and your perception of yourself when you're in the same scenery all the time. But there's two things you can always do to get into new circles. Make people laugh and/or know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing, you can make people laugh - and if you can't really make them laugh, you can at least know what you're doing. Just try not to be obnoxious with it of course.

That applies to damn near everything you can think of. Mixing drinks, book club, working out, job, driving people to the airport, meeting important people (risky, but its still counts lolz), etc...

I can't really say too much because I don't have an idea of where you're at or what you're really into though. Don't want be talking out my ass or anything.
 
I hear you.

The hometown thing kinda... I don't know how else to put it other than it held me back in a lot of ways. Its really hard to change your image and your perception of yourself when you're in the same scenery all the time. But there's two things you can always do to get into new circles. Make people laugh and/or know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing, you can make people laugh - and if you can't really make them laugh, you can at least know what you're doing. Just try not to be obnoxious with it of course.

That applies to damn near everything you can think of. Mixing drinks, book club, working out, job, driving people to the airport, meeting important people (risky, but its still counts lolz), etc...

I can't really say too much because I don't have an idea of where you're at or what you're really into though. Don't want be talking out my ass or anything.

My problem is how do you make people laugh without becoming a clown that isn't taken seriously. I fall into this pattern all the time.
 
My problem is how do you make people laugh without becoming a clown that isn't taken seriously. I fall into this pattern all the time.

There's a couple of ways that can happen.

Is it you getting pushed around or intimidated or is it a thing where you feel you can only be funny? That problem can come from a lot of different angles. Can you tell me more? Just so I can get a better idea of things.
 
There's a couple of ways that can happen.

Is it you getting pushed around or intimidated or is it a thing where you feel you can only be funny? That problem can come from a lot of different angles. Can you tell me more? Just so I can get a better idea of things.

It's kind of like people eventually see you as a one dimensional person so when you try to say anything remotely enlightened they brush it off because they don't see you as intelligent. Eventually you just become the joke so the people around you aren't laughing with you but at you. At this point they feel like they can pretty much say or do anything to you and it's cool and you've lost respect.
 
It's kind of like people eventually see you as a one dimensional person so when you try to say anything remotely enlightened they brush it off because they don't see you as intelligent. Eventually you just become the joke so the people around you aren't laughing with you but at you. At this point they feel like they can pretty much say or do anything to you and it's cool and you've lost respect.

Okay.

Well fuck those guys lol.

I can't know them, so I'll just say that some people don't like to be challenged in any way. So you sounding intelligent fucks up their balance and entire scope of things. But yeah, move on. Its never your job to prove anything or change someone's mind. And don't be one of those people that thinks its everyone out to get them either - that's not the case. There's just a disconnect there at the time and hell.... you may even be friends with those people. Later. But for right now? Just keep it moving. If you feel bad hanging around them, then simply don't. Its not a loss of any kind.

Just be ready and willing to meet new people that don't exactly seem like your crowd. Its important to do this kind of thing in a hometown kinda setting... odds are, you've seen the same people or type of people forever and certain groups simply look a certain way to you. Try your best to ignore that. Even if those people aren't your ideal "wow, i sure wanna hang with those guys!" type, they still can be good friends AND lead you to people that do fit the crowd you're looking for.

I played college basketball for 3 years. Hated my teammates. I simply didn't act like a typical basketball player (whatever the fuck that means) so I spent nearly my entire time in college chilling with the tennis team people - Its definitely not what I saw myself doing, but I had one of the best times of my life hanging out with a group that I never thought as a fit for me. Its not just about branching out (because that's really easy to say), but its being ready and willing to do it.
 
Went out with a girl that was annoying the shit out of me tonight. One of those "story tellers" where most of the conversation was her telling some kind of awkward story. Was into her friend a lot more which I sort of felt bad about. Her friend was really cute and actually into gaming though. We talked about PAX East, what games she was playing, and the Angry Video Game Nerd.

Kept seeing really cute latina girls which kept the ex girlfriend on the mind which is never good. She is supposed to visit within the next month or so for a long weekend.

Left a little early tonight because I was feeling weird. I'm not a fan of being the asshole so I left before any more sparks went off between me and her friend. All nights can't be good ones. Going out to a BBQ in the Bronx tomorrow anyway. It's okay if tonight was a wash.

I might be a little drunk right now.
 
It's not like you're in a relationship with the other girl. Take her out again and check out her phone while she's in the bathroom or something. Get the friend's number.

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Do it.
 
It's not like you're in a relationship with the other girl. Take her out again and check out her phone while she's in the bathroom or something. Get the friend's number.

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Do it.
Hahahaha. Well I said we all needed to go out again sometime so maybe next time. I don't feel the need to bend over backwards but if we hang out again I suppose I should make some kind of move.

I've had "secret" relationships before. It should be familiar territory for me at this point. I'm not as morally righteous as I like to think I am.
 
Hahahaha. Well I said we all needed to go out again sometime so maybe next time. I don't feel the need to bend over backwards but if we hang out again I suppose I should make some kind of move.

I've had "secret" relationships before. It should be familiar territory for me at this point. I'm not as morally righteous as I like to think I am.

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Good.
 
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