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[zethren]

I just don't like the generality of it. "Be confident." What does that even mean?

con·fi·dence/ˈkänfidəns/
Noun:
The feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust: "we had every confidence in the staff".
The state of feeling certain about the truth of something.

So, just have trust in what? Trust in I'm attractive? Trust in that I'm good-looking? Trust in that I have a good personality? All of that? Be confident about what?

Don't be shy.

Don't be hesitant to speak to people.

Don't be so negative.

Dress nicely, care about the way you present yourself.

Just be happier in day to day life, especially when with other people.

Be interesting in conversation.

etc etc etc etc etc.

All exhibit confidence.

 

[Vermillion]

why do you assume that he would not encounter women during these group activities? besides, for max effectiveness this person would be improving their self image as well, which would build up confidence and amplify the results of these social activities. repeat ad infinitum

If your group activity is gaming or has to do with computers, your guy:girl ratio will not be great. And who says everyone wants someone with the same interests? Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there, and hope something happens.

But the group activity thing is still excellent advice.

 

[Kinitari]

Whats the end goal for doing it? Is it to find the woman of your dreams who will complete you OR is it to get to know someone better? Is it to play a game being someone youre not only to get te woman in bed? My personality isnt being the Mystery PUA using keno wearing goggles and and lips on my neck. If i try to be anything close to that in order to get a chick then yea, its bullshit.

You're looking at all the PUA like it's the same - and while it may all be effective in it's own way, you don't have to take it all as some sort of blanket ideology. Look to SP - they're the gold standard in this field, and honestly the only guys I think anyone needs. This portion of dating is quick and simple (as in, not requiring a lot of steps) - it's just also the most difficult for a lot of people.

You can find the girl of your dreams in a bar, in a club, on the street. But you will absolutely not find her in these places if you don't go up and strike a conversation with her.

I just don't like the generality of it. "Be confident." What does that even mean?

con·fi·dence/ˈkänfidəns/
Noun:
The feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something; firm trust: "we had every confidence in the staff".
The state of feeling certain about the truth of something.

So, just have trust in what? Trust in I'm attractive? Trust in that I'm good-looking? Trust in that I have a good personality? All of that? Be confident about what?

It's complicated, and not something easily explained or gained. Confidence (in this context), personally, is something I associate with positivity. You don't assume the worst when you go up to someone, you don't second guess and doubt every thought in your head, wondering if you should say it outloud. You are secure in yourself, or at least in knowing that if this particular girl rejects you, there are other fish in the sea.

If you don't embody these traits, that's okay - I say just act the role. Not even necessarily with girls (with you, maybe definitely not with girls yet) - but for a little while, pretend like your life is amazing - or going to become amazing. Take the steps someone you -think- would take if they were bold, happy and brazen. Don't be afraid to smile and talk about things that make you happy.

See how pretending treats you, if it goes well, maybe some of it will stick.

 

[Izick]

Don't be shy.

Don't be hesitant to speak to people.

Don't be so negative.

Dress nicely, care about the way you present yourself.

Just be happier in day to day life, especially when with other people.

Be interesting in conversation.

etc etc etc etc etc.

All exhibit confidence.

I do talk to people. I'm not like the other people on here who have social problems. I've never had social problems in my life, at least not with making friends or conversation. If it just happens to be with an attractive girl, I treat it as any other kind of conversation. Then it ends, she leaves, and it's over. Same as any other conversation.

I'm not worried about being interesting or funny, or "confident" when talking to people, because I'm fine with all that stuff. Do I just walk up random people and start talking to them? No, that would be annoying and weird in my opinion. That's just not right in my mind.

As for happiness?....sheeyat, tell me the key to being happier; that'd be nice. I've been having a completely shitty year, and it's been getting worse, so I'd like to have that key. The dogshit has been pilling up, so the key to the door out would be nice. But there is no real key.

 

[foodtaster]

If your group activity is gaming or has to do with computers, your guy:girl ratio will not be great. And who says everyone wants someone with the same interests? Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there, and hope something happens.

But the group activity thing is still excellent advice.

well, if you're improving yourself, you would engage in many types of activities. it would just occur naturally. you might start working out, become fit enough to rid a bike, joining a biking group, meet someone who skateboards, etc, etc. it branches out eventually.

group activities will get you there, but that with self improvement gets you there far faster.

I do talk to people. I'm not like the other people on here who have social problems. I've never had social problems in my life, at least not with making friends or conversation. If it just happens to be with an attractive girl, I treat it as any other kind of conversation. Then it ends, she leaves, and it's over. Same as any other conversation.

I'm not worried about being interesting or funny, or "confident" when talking to people, because I'm fine with all that stuff. Do I just walk up random people and start talking to them? No, that would be annoying and weird in my opinion. That's just not right in my mind.

As for happiness?....sheeyat, tell me the key to being happier; that'd be nice. I've been having a completely shitty year, and it's been getting worse, so I'd like to have that key.

being social doesn't mean you're good at it. you should consult your friends for help. i know tons of "social" people who aren't really good at getting women because they're not good at being social. of course, it's difficult to perceive this yourself, hence the friend consultation. why exactly do you want a girl so badly? why does this girl even have to be attractive?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

People may find it amusing. And women give out numbers easier than you think. I remember when I was drunk and saying some bullshit, and somehow I got the girl I was talking to to give me her number. I crashed and burned on the next day (learn to text, ladies and gentlemen), but I still got the number.

I think I've said this about a thousand times in this thread, but I'm going to keep repeating it: Getting a girl's number is the EASY part, guys. They throw that shit out like candy, even if they never want to hear from you or talk to you again.

 

[Vermillion]

I think I've said this about a thousand times in this thread, but I'm going to keep repeating it: Getting a girl's number is the EASY part, guys. They throw that shit out like candy, even if they never want to hear from you or talk to you again.

Indeed. Yet so many guys are afraid of that part.

 

[foodtaster]

I think I've said this about a thousand times in this thread, but I'm going to keep repeating it: Getting a girl's number is the EASY part, guys. They throw that shit out like candy, even if they never want to hear from you or talk to you again.

ideally you'd be interesting enough to get them to ask for your number. then you're already on the winning team

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

This thread is moving so fast I can't even keep up.

ideally you'd be interesting enough to get them to ask for your number. then you're already on the winning team

That shit will never happen unless you are like the guy of their dreams and they are aggressive. Hell, I don't think I can get many guys to ask for my number just as friends.

 

[Nerds with Guns]

This thread is moving so fast I can't even keep up.

You haven't missed much.

ideally you'd be interesting enough to get them to ask for your number. then you're already on the winning team

You ever have that happen to you foodtaster?

 

[foodtaster]

That shit will never happen unless you are like the guy of their dreams and they are aggressive. Hell, I don't think I can get many guys to ask for my number just as friends.

this is complete nonsense. are you serious?

You ever have that happen to you foodtaster?

i've had girls give me their numbers after talking to em, but I dunno if it's because I was interesting. there are a lot of factors. you have to be a baller to get someone to ask just because you're THAT interesting. they also have to be the right kind of person. eg. a classical pianist girl might ask for your number if you're holding your own in a conversation on 18th century music and feels like you're about to go soon.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

this is complete nonsense. are you serious?

I'm just speaking on personal experience. That's a hefty order for some of us guys on here to go out there and expect to have people ask for our numbers, never happened to me.

 

[foodtaster]

I'm just speaking on personal experience. That's a hefty order for some of us guys on here to go out there and expect to have people ask for our numbers, never happened to me.

the circumstances have to be in place. i wouldn't really worry about the number. a number/email/im/skype/etc is only a tool used to get a future meet up, leading to future dates. when you realize this, you no longer really care about getting a number, it's just something you do. like asking how they are doing.

 

[Nerds with Guns]

That shit will never happen unless you are like the guy of their dreams and they are aggressive. Hell, I don't think I can get many guys to ask for my number just as friends.

It does happen, but in my experience it's been more of a friend situation then them being romantically interested.

 

[waxer]

English doesnt convey the meaning of being confident well when it comes to social awkwardness but I worked for years without having girls flirt with me or act interested more i assume because of me. Since I resolved to sort out my social issues and have better self esteem (and a girlfriend) I have had heaps of girls pass through work interested in me.

Your own attitude certainly boosts the amount of opening and opportunities to further a conversation or move on to meeting a person again. 8 years of getting bare minimum conversation and in the last year i have girls asking me all sorts of things starting with my name.

When I was less confident it always bugged me that these situations or opportunities for conversation never came up, but i could see others around me having it happen to them. Now they do regularly. The problem is when someone says be positive and confident it comes off as a crappy sales seminar/get good grades speech. Yet the two are quite different despite being described with the same words.

practice was key for me and putting myself outside my comfort zone a little bit at a time. Even if it took me a few years I always new I was moving forward.

Girlfriends away for 6 weeks. To much free time.

 

[Vermillion]

People with girlfriends automatically have more women interested in them

Good shit, though.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Back in this thread again it seems haha.

So on an errand to grocery store today I eyed this one bagger girl working at the aisle where I was checking out. She was cute and looked around my age (18). So yeah I bought my things and exhanged thanks and got out. Afterwards I cursed at myself for not doing anything about it (lack of confidence or common sense woot).

Now I probably won't see her again due to the randomness of it all but I would like to ask, how does one hit on/ask somebody out who works at a grocery store? I mean it seems simple enough to just walk up and say it but that seems kind of rude for both the worker (in the middle of the job) and the other people in line behind you (holding up the line).

 

[Mumei]

At no point do I talk like this, do not insinuate that I do. Your friend is sleazy, I am not.

It was unintentional.

I should have been clearer; I meant more specifically the presentation of "game" as the ultimate self-help tool that slices and dices and makes julienne fries, in a manner of speaking. And I should have clarified that before moving on to the next part of that post. He presents it in the same manner: as a form of self-improvement and trying to better oneself. He also makes similar arguments about it applying not just to pick-up, but to the development of relationships, and also does not differentiate between the social skills as understood from the perspective of "game" and social skills in the manner that the rest of us are talking about. By this, I mean that there's a fundamental difference in the goal of the conversation when one is having it in the perspective of "game"; one is trying to score. Whereas with "real" social interaction, having a positive social interaction is a goal in and of itself and not only a means to scoring. If you mean the latter, and not the former, I don't consider you to be talking about game, but just relabeling normal social interaction.

The point of my post was less about you personally and more about PUArtistry generally, though. Perhaps what you mean by "game" does not resemble what my friend has learned (and he would not shut up about Mystery, so he's definitely in the same lane as what myself and Devolution (and I think Dy) are talking about), but he is not the only one who learns these things. Suppose Minamu were not a person with moral standards and decided to "push past the token resistance"; a situation like that could easily be a recipe for rape, and in aggregate is almost a guarantee of it happening at some point. And while he might not do it, the point I was making is that PUA community presents understanding and dealing with those concepts as fundamental to being a PUArtist.

When I make this criticism of the putative PUArtist community, I mean the people who subscribe to those concepts and actively make use of them in attempting to achieve, well, coitus. I don't mean people who want to become more socially confident, and have decided to call that "game" or people who want to learn to talk to girls and are calling that "game." But when you say that you practice it, there will be people who think you are talking about all that baggage and not just "I am trying to be a socially confident and outgoing person", because "game" as it is presented by the PUA community is about a lot of other stuff as well, and far from presenting a path to healthy and happy social interaction, it presents a path towards the cynical manipulation of other people as puzzles to be solved.

If you are using "game" to describe something else, feel free to disregard my criticisms as not applying to what you are talking about. I only wanted to explain why we had so much hostility to the concept as it is presented within the community.

 

[Vermillion]

Back in this thread again it seems haha.

So on an errand to grocery store today I eyed this one bagger girl working at the aisle where I was checking out. She was cute and looked around my age (18). So yeah I bought my things and exhanged thanks and got out. Afterwards I cursed at myself for not doing anything about it (lack of confidence or common sense woot).

Now I probably won't see her again due to the randomness of it all but I would like to ask, how does one hit on/ask somebody out who works at a grocery store? I mean it seems simple enough to just walk up and say it but that seems kind of rude for both the worker (in the middle of the job) and the other people in line behind you (holding up the line).

You talk her while she's bagging your things, and you ask her when she gets off. The limited time does no favors, but if you play it right, hopefully she'll be willing to join you on a break or something.

EDIT:
@Mumei: I've never seen Mystery's... "work," but he looks like a less than admirable character.

 

[zethren]

As for happiness?....sheeyat, tell me the key to being happier; that'd be nice. I've been having a completely shitty year, and it's been getting worse, so I'd like to have that key. The dogshit has been pilling up, so the key to the door out would be nice. But there is no real key.

I'd rather not get into details, but 2012 has certifiably been the absolute worst year of my life.

Even taking that into consideration, I'm still generally a happy and personable person.

It's all about mindset. Find a way to put yourself into a positive mindset. You have a real problem with negativity, and honestly just altering your mindset to a more positive tone would do you wonders. There is no key for that, just do it. Simply look on the brighter side of life. "Oh but how can I look on the brighter side if I can't see the brighter side?". Just do it. Just be positive.

It will do wonders.

 

[KlotePino]

You're looking at all the PUA like it's the same - and while it may all be effective in it's own way, you don't have to take it all as some sort of blanket ideology. Look to SP - they're the gold standard in this field, and honestly the only guys I think anyone needs. This portion of dating is quick and simple (as in, not requiring a lot of steps) - it's just also the most difficult for a lot of people.

I really like SP too but wouldn't you say that they pretty much show that the whole science behind picking up girls is bullshit? They just walk up to a girl and talk to them about something, they might have some canned conversation but I still feel like they're pretty genuine. I read some of these PUA books once and they get overly complex which is completely unnecessary. Also having a conversation with a girl with the intent of getting to know her and/or pick her up should not be synonymous with PUA. I believe in what SP does, I believe in walking up to a girl with hardly any preparation or guidebooks and just seeing if there's a click. I don't believe in ASD's and all that other stuff and there's a clear difference in my opinion.

Also I think Nerds with Guns has the right intentions but I don't subscribe to your theory that an understanding of good social dynamics can be learned from a book since he equated good social dynamics with game earlier. That just comes from experience with talking to anyone, and please don't call that PUA because that's just common sense.

 

[Klyka]

Man, coming back to this thread and Izick is STILL at it?

 

[Vermillion]

I really like SP too but wouldn't you say that they pretty much show that the whole science behind picking up girls is bullshit? They just walk up to a girl and talk to them about something, they might have some canned conversation but I still feel like they're pretty genuine. I read some of these PUA books once and they get overly complex which is completely unnecessary. Also having a conversation with a girl with the intent of getting to know her and/or pick her up should not be synonymous with PUA. I believe in what SP does, I believe in walking up to a girl with hardly any preparation or guidebooks and just seeing if there's a click. I don't believe in ASD's and all that other stuff and there's a clear difference in my opinion.

Also I think Nerds with Guns has the right intentions but I don't subscribe to your theory that an understanding of good social dynamics can be learned from a book since he equated good social dynamics with game earlier. That just comes from experience with talking to anyone, and please don't call that PUA because that's just common sense.

You'd be surprised how much of common sense needs to be taught.

 

[KlotePino]

You'd be surprised how much of common sense needs to be taught.

I personally think it's more about encouragement, I knew it before I read those books and no doubt most know that for you to become proficient at something you have to practice. PUA just validates and encourages something that is very scary because unlike most things practicing it has social implications and can make someone feel awkward or ugly. Some people overcome that fear through PUA while others flip a mental switch. I'm happy that some people manage to overcome that fear through PUA but I don't think it teaches anything more of real value.

 

[DY_nasty]

What's the alternative to 'shotgunning'? Choosing one girl and putting all your eggs in that basket? No, that's terrible - I would never recommend that.

I have a friend who is recently (few months) single from a serious relationship. Right now my goal is to more often than not, get him talking to women we meet in bars/clubs/the street - whatever. He has gotten rejected a few times, but a lot of the times he has gotten conversations and once (when I was with him) he got a number. The amount of confidence that has given him is -astronomical-. And now rejection is not nearly as terrifying for him, because we just laugh it off as we walk away, simple.

Can you say that there is anything wrong with that?

You're arguing one extreme.

Running up to every girl you see and trying to start up a canned convo is shotgunning. You're literally looking for anyone to take you.

 

[Vermillion]

I personally think it's more about encouragement, I knew it before I read those books and no doubt most know that for you to become proficient at something you have to practice. PUA just validates and encourages something that is very scary because unlike most things practicing it has social implications and can make someone feel awkward or ugly. Some people overcome that fear through PUA while others flip a mental switch. I'm happy that some people manage to overcome that fear through PUA but I don't think it teaches anything more of real value.

Eh, well again - I've no idea about any books.

You're arguing one extreme.

Running up to every girl you see and trying to start up a canned convo is shotgunning. You're literally looking for anyone to take you.

Incorrect. You go up to any girl you find attractive in the hopes of determining whether or not they're right for you. Thinking about it the other way around only leads to quicker depression if you're rejected.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

I don't know, if you think you can have the same conversation with every woman as part of your "game", then maybe you don't have the right mindset to start dating.

This thread is so hilarious on so much stuff. No, dating a woman won't solve your problems. No, if you're shy and antisocial you might only trick a girl to have sex with you once with PUA but your true colors will be revealed. No, dating isn't like a videogame and it doesn't have checkpoints nor you can't use a guide.

If you have social problems, you've got more important stuff to do than dating. Fix yourself, then you can start considering it. And no, lying and being someone you're not isn't gonna fix yourself.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't know, if you think you can have the same conversation with every woman as part of your "game", then maybe you don't have the right mindset to start dating.

This thread is so hilarious on so much stuff. No, dating a woman won't solve your problems. No, if you're shy and antisocial you might only trick a girl to have sex with you once with PUA but your true colors will be revealed. No, dating isn't like a videogame and it doesn't have checkpoints nor you can't use a guide.

If you have social problems, you've got more important stuff to do than dating. Fix yourself, then you can start considering it. And no, lying and being someone you're not isn't gonna fix yourself.

1) It has nothing to do with the same conversation. There may be similar starting points (hi, how are you), but it doesn't imply the same conversation at all. That would be rather boring, and at some point you'll be going through the motions.

2) No one ever said it would. In fact, many of us have said the exact opposite.

3) No one's talking about tricking anyone into having sex. I don't understand where that came from.

4) Again, from Hitch: "Rule #1, there are no rules."

5) Some people have confidence issues only in the arena of dating. Fake it 'till you make it is sound advice. I mean, really, what would you say if you found out that the guy who asked you out was too nervous to talk to you because he really liked you? And so he decided to buck up and ask you out anyways, because he thought it was worth it? That's hardly a lie, and certainly not one people will get mad about.

EDIT: Actually, on point number four, there are technically some things you shouldn't do if you want to appeal to the widest variety of people. Like don't be a creeper. Rule still stands true because by probability alone, you'll find people into any type of person, including the overtly depressed. Doesn't mean you should be that guy/girl.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

If you have social problems, you've got more important stuff to do than dating. Fix yourself, then you can start considering it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I consider myself to be socially awkward/shy and dating was something that helped me overcome it.

 

[shanshan310]

I don't know, if you think you can have the same conversation with every woman as part of your "game", then maybe you don't have the right mindset to start dating.

This thread is so hilarious on so much stuff. No, dating a woman won't solve your problems. No, if you're shy and antisocial you might only trick a girl to have sex with you once with PUA but your true colors will be revealed. No, dating isn't like a videogame and it doesn't have checkpoints nor you can't use a guide.

If you have social problems, you've got more important stuff to do than dating. Fix yourself, then you can start considering it. And no, lying and being someone you're not isn't gonna fix yourself.

Put this in the OP.

 

[subversus]

I'd argue about checkpoints....

 

[Omegasquash]

If you have social problems, you've got more important stuff to do than dating. Fix yourself, then you can start considering it. And no, lying and being someone you're not isn't gonna fix yourself.

This.

 

[subversus]

This.

I don't quite agree with this one too. Dating = getting social, getting along with people. If we talk about "fixing" oneself it's all about "fixing" a person so he/she could be "consumable" (lol) by other people. Because if there is nobody around you don't need to be fixed because there is nobody to judge you if you don't match some image you should match. So basically "fixing" oneself is to become more integrated in society. And dating certainly helps that.

so no, you shouldn't fix yourself and THEN start dating. You should start dating and fix yourself in the process.

 

[Minamu]

Man, coming back to this thread and Izick is STILL at it?

He was doing well for a while actually but has fallen back down again recently unfortunately.

EDIT:
@Mumei: I've never seen Mystery's... "work," but he looks like a less than admirable character.

Read "the game" and watch the show then Yeah he looks weird but he means well. The book actually starts with him being broken in a mental hospital because he's unhappy even with these skills (and it's a true story). The show might surprise you too.

Mumei: The books are aware of the rape risks. It's been a while since I read any of the stuff but they all make a point of not forcing anyone to do something they don't want. Though, how to see the difference between token resistance and the real thing, I have no idea.

Again, I feel like I need to explain that I'm not some pickup master. I've read a handfull of books but I never actually started to actively and consciously use it. I've toyed with the idea of using some of the funnier "tricks" to see if they work and because some seem like a fun time for everyone involved but I've never actually done it. If anything, PUA made my approach anxiety worse!

Reading the books with an open mind (a mind that was entirely empty as well) helped me see that yeah, some of the teachings do sound mysoginistic and all that but it's only on the surface and not the intent at all. I figured that the terms exist for a reason, people with more experience than me have seen enough evidence to be able to coin terms. And my own experience after reading about it just confirms it.

Of course, now Brent is my god, father figure, I think he should run for office or whatever other bull people can come up with as to dismiss every word he says. All I know is that prior to finding PUA a year ago, and then finding Brent who sort of detoxed me from that stuff, I felt just as hopeless and angry as some of you guys in here! So much of what for example Izick says piss me off because I see myself in there to some degree. But I have changed and my life is a lot better these days. I can point it all to being the result of myself, PUA, Brent and friends coming together but take from it what you will.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

3) No one's talking about tricking anyone into having sex. I don't understand where that came from.

From everything I've read, PUA's objective is exclusively the sex. If you pretend to be someone you're not and lie about yourself to get to that, yeah, you're tricking people into it.

5) Some people have confidence issues only in the arena of dating. Fake it 'till you make it is sound advice. I mean, really, what would you say if you found out that the guy who asked you out was too nervous to talk to you because he really liked you? And so he decided to buck up and ask you out anyways, because he thought it was worth it? That's hardly a lie, and certainly not one people will get mad about.

If you're going straight up and asking someone out you're not faking confidence. You simply needed some sort of love guru to give it a name and guarantee that it works for you to gain confidence.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I consider myself to be socially awkward/shy and dating was something that helped me overcome it.

Helped, or treated it as some sort of magic cure that would suddenly make you the most dashing motherfucker in the planet?

Dating can only help you in the same way that talking to people will help you. If you obsess over it, you're gonna have problems. Because most people who are shy and socially awkward are gonna be unappealing, and even if they get to date someone, they're not gonna be relationship material, no one wants to teach someone how to stop being socially awkward.

Depends on how socially awkward you are. I assume those crying constantly and saying they NEED a girl are just gonna meet rejection, which is why fixing them first is way more important. If you aren't quite that bad, yeah, dating will help you but again, just any form of social interaction will help you.

 

[Omegasquash]

I don't quite agree with this one too. Dating = getting social, getting along with people. If we talk about "fixing" oneself it's all about "fixing" a person so he/she could be "consumable" (lol) by other people. Because if there is nobody around you don't need to be fixed because there is nobody to judge you if you don't match some image you should match. So basically "fixing" oneself is to become more integrated in society. And dating certainly helps that.

so no, you shouldn't fix yourself and THEN start dating. You should start dating and fix yourself in the process.

I think the point being made (what I read, anyway), is that if you have depression, low self-esteem, whatever...going out and being something that you're not isn't doing you any favors (that skeleton will pop out of the closet), and you're not doing the girl any favors either. I was that dude a few times in high school, and looking back on it, I was the one being douchy.

I agree that dating helps, but learning to drive also helps being a better driver, though not as much as actually driving. You really ought to know yourself properly and be at least somewhat comfortable with yourself before getting out there. Weird analogy, but there you have it. And that's just my 2 cents too...each person is different.

 

[Vermillion]

He was doing well for a while actually but has fallen back down again recently unfortunately.

Read "the game" and watch the show then Yeah he looks weird but he means well. The book actually starts with him being broken in a mental hospital because he's unhappy even with these skills (and it's a true story). The show might surprise you too.

Mumei: The books are aware of the rape risks. It's been a while since I read any of the stuff but they all make a point of not forcing anyone to do something they don't want. Though, how to see the difference between token resistance and the real thing, I have no idea.

Again, I feel like I need to explain that I'm not some pickup master. I've read a handfull of books but I never actually started to actively and consciously use it. I've toyed with the idea of using some of the funnier "tricks" to see if they work and because some seem like a fun time for everyone involved but I've never actually done it. If anything, PUA made my approach anxiety worse!

Reading the books with an open mind (a mind that was entirely empty as well) helped me see that yeah, some of the teachings do sound mysoginistic and all that but it's only on the surface and not the intent at all. I figured that the terms exist for a reason, people with more experience than me have seen enough evidence to be able to coin terms. And my own experience after reading about it just confirms it.

Of course, now Brent is my god, father figure, I think he should run for office or whatever other bull people can come up with as to dismiss every word he says. All I know is that prior to finding PUA a year ago, and then finding Brent who sort of detoxed me from that stuff, I felt just as hopeless and angry as some of you guys in here! So much of what for example Izick says piss me off because I see myself in there to some degree. But I have changed and my life is a lot better these days. I can point it all to being the result of myself, PUA, Brent and friends coming together but take from it what you will.

Well, I'm good with my friends, SP and this thread for now. Some time ago, a friend was asking me if I had a girlfriend. I kinda laughed, and said "No. Did you expect me to have one." And he looked at me with a blank stare and said, "uh, yeah." That's part of what helped me, among other things

 

[Minamu]

From everything I've read, PUA's objective is exclusively the sex. If you pretend to be someone you're not and lie about yourself to get to that, yeah, you're tricking people into it..

This just proves that you haven't read anything worthwhile at all because none of what you wrote is true. Absolutely everyone says a version of this and it's just ignorance imho. The only thing I can see that is pretending to be someone else is peacock theory. But changing to more appealing clothing is hardly lying to someone and both sexes do it all the time.

 

[Vermillion]

From everything I've read, PUA's objective is exclusively the sex. If you pretend to be someone you're not and lie about yourself to get to that, yeah, you're tricking people into it.

If you're going straight up and asking someone out you're not faking confidence. You simply needed some sort of love guru to give it a name and guarantee that it works for you to gain confidence.

Well now you're just bringing up that confusion again. We've established that none of us are talking about the terms and everything like that (okay, some are), but in general we're just referring to the confidence it takes to talk to women.

:/ I have no idea what you're talking about here. People fake confidence all the time (and it's hardly a term - it's merely a description). It doesn't mean that you can't go up and ask someone out. Because you can be absolutely terrified on the inside. Entirely afraid. But you put on a brave face because hey, it's worth it. Eventually, you won't have to fake it. Ever heard of the notion that smiling can help make you happier? This is essentially the same principle.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Because most people who are shy and socially awkward are gonna be unappealing, and even if they get to date someone, they're not gonna be relationship material, no one wants to teach someone how to stop being socially awkward.

My partner (and previous) has said my shyness was part of the attraction.

 

[shanshan310]

:/ I have no idea what you're talking about here. People fake confidence all the time (and it's hardly a term - it's merely a description). It doesn't mean that you can't go up and ask someone out. Because you can be absolutely terrified on the inside. Entirely afraid. But you put on a brave face because hey, it's worth it. Eventually, you won't have to fake it. Ever heard of the notion that smiling can help make you happier? This is essentially the same principle.

Putting on a brave face is not faking confidence. Being terrified and taking the step forward anyway IS confidence. Its not something you can fake.

 

[subversus]

I think the point being made (what I read, anyway), is that if you have depression, low self-esteem, whatever...going out and being something that you're not isn't doing you any favors (that skeleton will pop out of the closet), and you're not doing the girl any favors either. I was that dude a few times in high school, and looking back on it, I was the one being douchy.

I agree that dating helps, but learning to drive also helps being a better driver, though not as much as actually driving. You really ought to know yourself properly and be at least somewhat comfortable with yourself before getting out there. Weird analogy, but there you have it. And that's just my 2 cents too...each person is different.

I think this is a mistake. Depression and low self-esteem can be fixed (at least partially) by going out and/or by being in a relatioship. It's all about motivation, you know. Being in love makes you better.

 

[Vermillion]

Putting on a brave face is not faking confidence. Being terrified and taking the step forward anyway IS confidence. Its not something you can fake.

Confidence comes from within. Sure, there's being brave enough to take the first step, but you'd still be terrified the whole time. When you decide to ask someone out or you have to take a big test, and you're really afraid to do it, but you do it anyways, do you come back and say "I was totally confident"? No, because that would be lying. You were afraid the whole time, yet the accomplishment comes from you doing what needed to be done. Being afraid isn't a bad thing. It's when you let it get in your way that it's a problem.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

This just proves that you haven't read anything worthwhile at all because none of what you wrote is true.

I've read all the links to PUA shit that have been linked here and nothing more because I can't care less about it.

Well now you're just bringing up that confusion again. We've established that none of us are talking about the terms and everything like that (okay, some are), but in general we're just referring to the confidence it takes to talk to women.

:/ I have no idea what you're talking about here. People fake confidence all the time (and it's hardly a term - it's merely a description). It doesn't mean that you can't go up and ask someone out. Because you can be absolutely terrified on the inside. Entirely afraid. But you put on a brave face because hey, it's worth it. Eventually, you won't have to fake it. Ever heard of the notion that smiling can help make you happier? This is essentially the same principle.

People don't fake confidence. They are confident because they read online if they do that, they'll succeed.

My partner (and previous) has said my shyness was part of the attraction.

Shyness isn't the same as social awkwardness and women have varying tastes. If being shy isn't preventing you from talking to people, then it's not a problem.

 

[Omegasquash]

I think this is a mistake. Depression and low self-esteem can be fixed (at least partially) by going out and/or by being in a relatioship. It's all about motivation, you know. Being in love makes you better.

I agree with what you say, minus the bolded. It creates a reliance on the relationship, and on the emotion. The overarching point I want to make is that you should be confident with yourself first and foremost.

That said, getting out there, asking the questions and learning how to get around failure are the best ways to fix it. Flirt, chat, strike out, hit singles, be told to fuck off and be told to come inside for a drink...it's all learning. The mental outlook that you get from that exposure to wins and losses is what will make the difference, not the actual relationship. The relationship can be an end goal, because ain't nothin' wrong with looking for love.

So I guess I'm just saying that getting out there and trying is the best cure, not the end result. If I've misunderstood what's being said here, then my bad.

 

[Vermillion]

I've read all the links to PUA shit that have been linked here and nothing more because I can't care less about it.


People don't fake confidence. They are confident because they read online if they do that, they'll succeed.

In that case, you're not talking about the same thing that I'm talking about. Because what Devo linked - I can tell you that those terms are foreign to me. Whether they are or not true, I've never used 'em. If that's what is considered PUA then... yeah...

Wait, what? People fake confidence all the time, in varying situations. Again, fear is not a bad thing. Letting it run you is.

 

[Minamu]

I've read all the links to PUA shit that have been linked here and nothing more because I can't care less.

But you seem incredibly opinionated, hostile, angry and offended by it all, based on your posts. Why? You seem to care a lot since you call it PUA shit and all.

Joker: They are terms coined in the "Mystery Method". What they describe is human psychology. Quite a few seem to take offense to that. I can agree that the exploitation of it is less than admirable in some cases.

 

[Vermillion]

But you seem incredibly opinionated, hostile, angry and offended by it all, based on your posts. Why? You seem to care a lot since you call it PUA shit and all.

Your avatar + this post makes me imagine the Willy Wonka meme.

 

[shanshan310]

My partner (and previous) has said my shyness was part of the attraction.

At least in my case, I was incredibly shy, but eventually I became comfortable with my boyfriend and stopped being shy around him. I also began to rely on him in social situations I was uncomfortable in. Becoming confident was something I had to work out on my own.

Confidence comes from within. Sure, there's being brave enough to take the first step, but you'd still be terrified the whole time. When you decide to ask someone out or you have to take a big test, and you're really afraid to do it, but you do it anyways, do you come back and say "I was totally confident"? No, because that would be lying. You were afraid the whole time, yet the accomplishment comes from you doing what needed to be done. Being afraid isn't a bad thing. It's when you let it get in your way that it's a problem.

Then we should be telling people that they don't need to be totally confident to make it, all they need is to take that one first step, instead of telling them to 'fake it'.

 

[subversus]

So I guess I'm just saying that getting out there and trying is the best cure, not the end result. If I've misunderstood what's being said here, then my bad.

actually nothing really changes when you start a relationship except you have to take into account the other person too which changes you drastically if you want to keep this relationship afloat. And if you have depression or anger problems your relationship will make you fix them. Going out will probably get you laid sooner or later but you can't keep a relationship without changing yourself.