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[CloudyTuba]

Regarding

Spoiler

the three Jokers:

Spoiler

I was idly thinking about this when a possibility came to mind. What if it's referring to pre-crisis, post-crisis and 52, and they're each actually a different man?

It's sort of the entire point of the Joker that anyone could be him after "one bad day." And his origin has always been a bit ambiguous and contradictory. What if in each universe, it was someone else who happened to have the same bad day? Another poor sap with a different backstory who ended up going through the same meat grinder and came out Joker on the other side. All three ended up in the chemical vat, but who were they first?

Maybe not but it's fun to think about. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Regarding

Spoiler

the three Jokers:

Spoiler

I was idly thinking about this when a possibility came to mind. What if it's referring to pre-crisis, post-crisis and 52, and they're each actually a different man?

It's sort of the entire point of the Joker that anyone could be him after "one bad day." And his origin has always been a bit ambiguous and contradictory. What if in each universe, it was someone else who happened to have the same bad day? Another poor sap with a different backstory who ended up going through the same meat grinder and came out Joker on the other side.

Maybe not but it's fun to think about. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened.

Spoiler

Actually the Killing Joke rejects that premise, Gordon remained Gordon despite a really bad day. Barbara recovered mentally too but I'm not going to attempt to argue that the Killing Joke intended that or even much cared about her beyond the effect on Gordon.

 

[ReiGun]

Spoiler

Actually the Killing Joke rejects that premise, Gordon remained Gordon despite a really bad day. Barbara recovered mentally too but I'm not going to attempt to argue that the Killing Joke intended that or even much cared about her beyond the effect on Gordon.

Spoiler

True, but that does little to change the Joker's worldview. Because after all, that's how it happened to him. Which is what SillyNonsense is getting at: across all three major timelines, three random schmucks had "one bad day" and turned in the Joker.

It's a pretty clever idea, though I don't know how they'd explain all three of them being in this timeline.

 

[NeonZ]

If they are going to focus more on continuity then they are going to need to cut loose large parts of their editorial staff first. Seriously , Bat Editorial at the moment can't even do consistent characterization and events across a Batfamily Crossover that was obviously written for the Trade (had a very short miniseries as a centre even). They've been saying story over continuity because they can't do continuity. And Bat Editorial is probably one of the better ones consider they handle more closely connected titles than any of the others.

I actually think the Bat editoral is one of the best ones they have. They have crossovers, but yet still let each book stand on its own. The Superman one basically crushed the solo books under the weight of crossovers, with the last resting period being when Johns was writing Superman.

 

[Poodlestrike]

so, there's supposed to be two books in each series released a month? like two batmans, two supermans, etc.. that's going to be a lot of comics to keep up with... i will have to pick maybe three or four to follow.

Not all of 'em. Around half of the books are going to be double shipping (that is to say, twice a month). The rest are monthly. Batman and Superman are double shipping, though, so you've got that right.

Spoiler

True, but that does little to change the Joker's worldview. Because after all, that's how it happened to him. Which is what SillyNonsense is getting at: across all three major timelines, three random schmucks had "one bad day" and turned in the Joker.

It's a pretty clever idea, though I don't know how they'd explain all three of them being in this timeline.

The same way they're explaining everything that's going to start happening, I suppose

 

[ReiGun]

Not all of 'em. Around half of the books are going to be double shipping (that is to say, twice a month). The rest are monthly. Batman and Superman are double shipping, though, so you've got that right.



The same way they're explaining everything that's going to start happening, I suppose

.....Speedforce?

 

[MHWilliams]

Rebirth #1 is out in the world, folks. You can openly talk about the issue and the content inside.

Spoilers remain for unpublished books or content DC hasn't openly talked about.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Ive never been a weekly warrior before, or whatever theyre called. But I was thinking of finally doing it after Rebirth to be more engaged in the community discussions. My genius first idea was "just do batman" and trade wait everything else. But Im just so deep into this shit right now, in an ideal world Im going to be picking up Batman, Detective, Wonder Woman, Superman, Action, and maybe Justice League and/or Titans to keep up with the big game. And maybe Trinity.

The new Hellblazer also has my eye because of my main man Swampy, but that fees like an easy one to trade wait still cause nobodys gonna really be talking about it.

 

[Poodlestrike]

.....Speedforce?

Dr. Manhattan, Barry Allen, and Pandora, d00d. More and more people becoming aware of the changes, additions, and removals that came from Flashpoint, and more and more of those elements reverting or otherwise rearing their heads.

 

[ReiGun]

Dr. Manhattan, Barry Allen, and Pandora, d00d. More and more people becoming aware of the changes, additions, and removals that came from Flashpoint, and more and more of those elements reverting or otherwise rearing their heads.

So....Speedforce? :3

It's obvious it'll be something Manhattan did. That missing ten years is a big thing. The only rule that seems to ever be consistent in DC stories like this is that you shouldn't fuck around with time.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So....Speedforce? :3

It's obvious it'll be something Manhattan did. That missing ten years is a big thing. The only rule that seems to ever be consistent in DC stories like this is that you shouldn't fuck around with time.

I mean, sure, but it's the sum total of the events that led to Flashpoint turning out the way it did. Manhattan snagged 10 years, and then Pandora tried to splice in Vertigo and Wildstorm which you know didn't work all that well.

 

[KoruptData]

The Joker theory above is cool. But,

Spoiler

what about explaining Red Hood and Ace Chemicals? It's heavily implied in the n52 version that was his origin as it has been before the n52. I do feel you are on to something that it's 3 different guys. We have the Killing Joke origin also. Is there a 3rd theory of an origin for the Joker?

Being a big Joker fan, this is one of the story lines I'm looking foward to the most. Just what book is it going to be explored in?

 

[Ahasverus]

I wanna see where the original Joker is, or who is the real Batman arch enemy, I bet it's the second one, the one from TKJ. I expect the original Joker to be dead since ages ago and the second one (the one Harley knew) being held captive by nuJoker.

 

[exmachina64]

The Joker theory above is cool. But,

Spoiler

what about explaining Red Hood and Ace Chemicals? It's heavily implied in the n52 version that was his origin as it has been before the n52. I do feel you are on to something that it's 3 different guys. We have the Killing Joke origin also. Is there a 3rd theory of an origin for the Joker?

Being a big Joker fan, this is one of the story lines I'm looking foward to the most. Just what book is it going to be explored in?

Spoiler

Alfred Pennyworth

 

[beyond_death]

My comic shop just sent out my copy thank fuck. Even thought Ive read it digitally I want to own the physical copy. Was worried since they posted on their Facebook that it sold out very quickly. Lucky I ordered last week.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The Joker theory above is cool. But,

Spoiler

what about explaining Red Hood and Ace Chemicals? It's heavily implied in the n52 version that was his origin as it has been before the n52. I do feel you are on to something that it's 3 different guys. We have the Killing Joke origin also. Is there a 3rd theory of an origin for the Joker?

Being a big Joker fan, this is one of the story lines I'm looking foward to the most. Just what book is it going to be explored in?

1. Nobody knows not even the Joker himself (plays up his role as random chaos and utter madness)
2. Chemical vat. (Though there's some different versions of who he was first: Comedian or Hitman or Thug).
3. There's the 90s movie one where he was Jack Napier and shot Bruce's parents but that's utterly incoherent with the current timeline.
4. Snyder did something about where he was a Lazarus pit user whos origin predates Batman too didn't he ?

That's 4 or 6 depending on how you count the branches of the chemical vat explanation.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Comixology was giving this out for free so I signed in with my Amazon account to grab it.

Damn does the Surface Book clipboard make for a great comic reader.

 

[Cth]

As cliche as it would be, I'd like to see a Mother/Maiden/Crone take on the 3 Joker thing.

Like a younger, inexperienced Joker, not so wild, more pre-crisis..

.. a Joker in his prime, crazy but not psychotic..

.. and a Joker who's seen it all, elderly, crazy beyond redemption, nothing to lose, etc.

 

[Sou Da]

So is no one going to mention how the three Jokers thing makes Batman the world's worst detective?

 

[VanWinkle]

So is no one going to mention how the three Jokers thing makes Batman the world's worst detective?

What other detectives figured it out?

 

[Poodlestrike]

So is no one going to mention how the three Jokers thing makes Batman the world's worst detective?

Not really, imo. So long as they all have a vaguely similar bone structure, the whole chemical bath permanent grin thing does kinda sorta make it hard to get a good read on what he actually looks like. They did a great bit with that in Endgame.

What other detectives figured it out?

Hah, this is a better answer.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Not really, imo. So long as they all have a vaguely similar bone structure, the whole chemical bath permanent grin thing does kinda sorta make it hard to get a good read on what he actually looks like. They did a great bit with that in Endgame.



Hah, this is a better answer.

I guess we have to assume the Joker depictions we see are made more distinct for our convenience since the display clearly shows distinct facial structures for each Joker.

 

[Kai]

Comixology was giving this out for free so I signed in with my Amazon account to grab it.

Damn does the Surface Book clipboard make for a great comic reader.

Same! Bought it with Amazon account to read on my Surface Book. It works wonderfully.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

The 3 Jokers are most likely Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and New 52 Joker. They each are stylistically different enough to believable be different people yet still seem like one person due to the level of crazy they all are.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I guess we have to assume the Joker depictions we see are made more distinct for our convenience since the display clearly shows distinct facial structures for each Joker.

To an extent, yeah. Having the same picture 3 times would be kinda dumb.

Plus, I mean, it does just now occur to me that N52 Joker had his face peeled off and wore it around for a while. Radical facial alterations aren't outside the question for this guy.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The 3 Jokers are most likely Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and New 52 Joker. They each are stylistically different enough to believabl be different people yet still seem like one person due to the level of crazy they all are.

Post-Crisis (Largely Killing Joke based) and New 52 (Face removal Joker) would work and are distinct enough but there's actually 2 pre-Crisis Jokers: The early Golden Age one (pretty much a straight up stone cold serial killer with the distinctive look) and the late Golden Age / Silver Age one (who was more of a wacky prankster and didn't start killing people again until the Bronze Age). I suppose you could actually argue Bronze Age Joker was distinct again, he was much more thematically clownish but still killed a lot of people.

And (in case someone reading this doesn't know) the Golden Age Batman ended up being a distinct character on a different Earth and thus his Joker was too but the point at which Batman's "Golden Age" version switched over to the "Silver Age" version in the comics isn't as clear cut as it is for a lot of characters, since he didn't get the hard reboots that the Flash and Green Lantern did.

 

[Discotheque]

Rucka Wonder Woman
Tomasi/Gleason Superman
All Star Batman

will be the must reads of the lineup IMO

Damn 3-4 means you are definitely going to miss out on some good series and maybe hidden gems.

I would go

Batman
Aquaman
Wondewoman
Green lanterns
Titans/flash

To get a good scope of what is happening around the DC universe

Edit:yea replace superman with the flash and all star is not till July.

thanks. i think i might just settle with the trinity's books barring some amazing reviews for another character/team.

 

[Drayco21]

What other detectives figured it out?

If Detective Chimp was still around, I bet he would have!

 

[MHWilliams]

The 3 Jokers are most likely Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and New 52 Joker. They each are stylistically different enough to believabl be different people yet still seem like one person due to the level of crazy they all are.

Joker #1 looks to Golden Age, like Bob Kane's original impression. LAtest version that looks like that is the Marshall Rogers version.

Kane

Rogers

The Rogers version is from the Englehart era, and there's really not enough difference between that and Killing Joker, so I'm assuming it'll be Golden Age.

 

[tim1138]

One of the things that I'm glad Rebirth addressed is the incongruity of Thomas Wayne's letter to Bruce from the Flashpoint universe. It's a minor thing, but it's always bugged the hell out of me.

After Barry corrected the Flashpoint (and Pandora merged the universes), the first thing he did was run to the Batcave and give Bruce the letter. The costumes show this is the N52 universe, yet Barry and Bruce are friends and know each other's secret identities. But in the first arc of Justice League is the team meeting each other for the first time, yet Bruce has the letter in the Batcave.

I was thrilled to see the paradox of the letter's existence being pointed out by Wally to Batman.

 

[Ross61]

Does Red Hood book even sell that well to justify giving Scott Lobdell another go?

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Man, I wish there was a DC Unlimited thing....

So many books are twice a month. I would like to read some of them, but I doubt I can effort more than 2 right now. Maybe Wonder Woman and King's Batman. I will try some of the one-shots to see...

 

[Elaugaufein]

Does Red Hood book even sell that well to justify giving Scott Lobdell another go?

As far as I've heard none of the Red Hood books have done particularly well (and a quick Google for sales rankings seems to confirm that, it seems to track around ~100 and only draws around ~20-25K consistently. That isn't the kind of numbers that would normally get you continually new series. ). I guess someone just wants to push Red Hood for some reason since he keeps getting new books.

The entire premise seems kind of flawed honestly since the intended draw seems to be Batman who kills, which may work as a standalone character somewhere in the DCverse that isn't anywhere near Gotham, but doesn't with someone with such perceived close ties to Batman himself since people who regularly read existing Batman books are unlikely to be particularly interested in a Batman who kills given that they are you know reading Batman books.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

What other detectives figured it out?

He sat in an all-knowing chair, and it told him there were three Jokers.

 

[Ashby]

Man, I wish there was a DC Unlimited thing....

So many books are twice a month. I would like to read some of them, but I doubt I can effort more than 2 right now. Maybe Wonder Woman and King's Batman. I will try some of the one-shots to see...

Yeah but now two issues of DC only costs a dollar more than one issue of a Marvel book. I was loving what Marvel was doing the last few years but post-SW they've really let me down (especially when their big summer crossover is a Bendis Civil War II? It's like a bad joke). I'll keep buying Captain America based on the crazy premise that the first issue set up at least for a bit but otherwise none of their books are really grabbing me like a King Batman and a Abnett Titans with Wally. I should still check out Waid's Avengers but I hear even that's kind of boring.

 

[ArgyleReptile]

He sat in an all-knowing chair, and it told him there were three Jokers.

Batman needs to pass the detective mantel to the chair.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Yeah but now two issues of DC only costs a dollar more than one issue of a Marvel book. I was loving what Marvel was doing the last few years but post-SW they've really let me down (especially when their big summer crossover is a Bendis Civil War II? It's like a bad joke). I'll keep buying Captain America based on the crazy premise that the first issue set up at least for a bit but otherwise none of their books are really grabbing me like a King Batman and a Abnett Titans with Wally. I should still check out Waid's Avengers but I hear even that's kind of boring.

Ultimates is great. As Vision (soon to end), Karmac, Iron-man and Dr. Strange. I am enjoying Marvel at the moment, even if it is 6 month late. DC could do the same. I really wanted to read more DC but is hard to justify the prices. I am not buying a single physical edition from Marvel, I would like to do the same for DC. At least digital prices should be cheaper, you don't have to print them, distribute them. Pay the artists, get some profit, but also allow the costumer to save and buy more.

 

[Ashby]

Ultimates is great. As Vision (soon to end), Karmac, Iron-man and Dr. Strange. I am enjoying Marvel at the moment, even if it is 6 month late. DC could do the same. I really wanted to read more DC but is hard to justify the prices. I am not buying a single physical edition from Marvel, I would like to do the same for DC. At least digital prices should be cheaper, you don't have to print them, distribute them. Pay the artists, get some profit, but also allow the costumer to save and buy more.

You know, you raise a good point. Now would be a good time for me to finally bite the bullet on subscribing to Marvel Unlimited for the few books that interest me plus checking out those I'm unsure about. But the reason I haven't gotten it yet is that the idea of being six months behind really gnaws at me lol. I would totally subscribe to a more expensive tier if it meant shortening that gap between physical/digital release and when it gets added to MU.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

 

[DeathyBoy]

If Detective Chimp was still around, I bet he would have!

He did figure out the ending of Lost.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

There's no explanation yet. Batman sat in Metron's all-knowing chair after Wonder Woman pulled him out of it, and to test the chair's all-knowing abilities he asked it a series of questions, one of which was (obviously) "who is the Joker". It turns out the answer the chair gave him was that there were three Jokers instead of just one, and now Batman's crime-detecting Batcomputer is (conveniently) finding instances of the Joker being in two or more places at once.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

As far as I've heard none of the Red Hood books have done particularly well (and a quick Google for sales rankings seems to confirm that, it seems to track around ~100 and only draws around ~20-25K consistently. That isn't the kind of numbers that would normally get you continually new series. ). I guess someone just wants to push Red Hood for some reason since he keeps getting new books.

Thing is, if a book can hold 20K sales even with a B-tier creative team then DC is making money off it. The new Red Hood also gives them a chance to use a character like Artemis that's been on the shelf for a while.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

There's really not much to go on right now. Batman gained access to a magical artifact that gave him unlimited knowledge. He asked about the identity of the Joker and the answer he got was : "there are three". Everybody can interpret that a different way so it doesn't mean much right now but it has been presented in an interesting way and it could lead to some good stories down the line.

Every time a huge twist would happen in Snyder's run on Batman, it would leak on the internet and everyone would lose their mind about how stupid it was but when the issue would actually hit the stores, everybody was fine with it upon reading the story. The same thing is probably going to happen here, they're not going to ruin the Joker, don't worry. And if they do ruin him, they'll just never reference that story again like with the Wolverine / Sabretooth / Romulus & Remus stuff.

 

[Elaugaufein]

There's no explanation yet. Batman sat in Metron's all-knowing chair after Wonder Woman pulled him out of it, and to test the chair's all-knowing abilities he asked it a series of questions, one of which was (obviously) "who is the Joker". It turns out the answer the chair gave him was that there were three Jokers instead of just one, and now Batman's crime-detecting Batcomputer is (conveniently) finding instances of the Joker being in two or more places at once.

They left themselves a bit of an out too. Although the chair said there are 3 Jokers it also didn't provide names, there's theoretically nothing preventing the chair merely given the names of all 3 if that's all there is too it.

 

[tim1138]

If Detective Chimp was still around, I bet he would have!

Let's be honest though, Detective Chimp is the best detective in the history of the DCU.

 

[Vyer]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

This is like all the criticisms sometimes placed on comic fans all rolled into one post.

 

[NeonZ]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

Aside from what was mentioned above, Rebirth visually shows the three suspected Jokers to be the original Golden Age on, Killing Joke and the modern End Game Joker. Morrison previously had introduced the idea of the Joker periodically reinventing himself due to his insanity, in order to explain why he was so different through the years. This new explanation, based on the visual imagery, suggests that they're different and the Joker seemingly changed because they're plain different people.

Depending on how it's executed in the end it could make Joker more like a force of nature. "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy". If multiple people became the Joker it makes his words all the more relevant. He isn't just a random thug that can be killed and end it all. He becomes a macabre inspiration that could reappear again at any time once someone else falls to that point. Even if he's killed, there's nothing stopping another from rising.

 

[Schweinehund]

I wanna see where the original Joker is, or who is the real Batman arch enemy, I bet it's the second one, the one from TKJ. I expect the original Joker to be dead since ages ago and the second one (the one Harley knew) being held captive by nuJoker.

iirc Harley QUinn said something along the lines that the Joker wasn't the same, or not her joker or something like that. This was way back around Death of the Family I think. Wonder if it's been an internal story beat at DC for that long.

So tempted to jump on Tomasi's Superman. I think the most interesting aspect of Rebirth (besides the watchmen stuff) is the real story behind Superman, Alt Superman, and the missing 10 years. I'm under the assumption that the New 52 characters ARE the pre new-52 characters, just with 10 years removed & forgotten. That is, there is no actual pre new-52 multiverse that has been going on after flashpoint happened.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Aside from what was mentioned above, Rebirth visually shows the three suspected Jokers to be the original Golden Age on, Killing Joke and the modern End Game Joker. Morrison previously had introduced the idea of the Joker periodically reinventing himself due to his insanity, in order to explain why he was so different through the years. This new explanation, based on the visual imagery, suggests that they're different and the Joker seemingly changed because they're plain different people.

Depending on how it's executed in the end it could make Joker more like a force of nature. "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy". If multiple people became the Joker it makes his words all the more relevant. He isn't just a random thug that can be killed and end it all. He becomes a macabre inspiration that could reappear again at any time once someone else falls to that point. Even if he's killed, there's nothing stopping another from rising.

If the Joker is some bizarre manifestation of Gotham's madness channeled through some poor smucks that makes him like the 4th Eldritch Horror of Gotham (Gotham: More Eldritch Abominations per Square Foot than R'lyeh)

 

[Crimson-Death]

I don't want to financially support this lunacy and don't have time to read comics anyway, so can anyone give a quick explanation of the three Jokers stuff? Cuz it's really the thing that has me rolling my eyes most about Rebirth. It waters done one of the best comic villains of all time, and turns a once in a lifetime force of nature into just another thug.

I think it only waters down the Joker the same way parallel/alternate timeline characters water down the "main" version of the character at the moment. Whatever the heck is going with the Jokers, it might be different timelines merging together now. Like with the 1994 Zero Hour, you had different versions of Batgirl and Batman running around from different universes because reality and time were being destroyed. I really doubt DC is going to retcon the Joker history and say there were always 3 Jokers running around ever since Batman appeared in Gotham and he never noticed because he is the world's worst detective. Or maybe they would do that to explain discrepancies, but better explanations exist and the Joker is the last in line to need any explaining. Triplet brother Jokers.
Timelines are merging in Rebirth or something, and for the first time in years I've gone down to the comic shop and bought some comics. I need to track down the Darkseid War comics now.
I only hope Tim Drake gets treated better than I've heard he was for the past few years.