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[Chiaroscuro]

You know, you raise a good point. Now would be a good time for me to finally bite the bullet on subscribing to Marvel Unlimited for the few books that interest me plus checking out those I'm unsure about. But the reason I haven't gotten it yet is that the idea of being six months behind really gnaws at me lol. I would totally subscribe to a more expensive tier if it meant shortening that gap between physical/digital release and when it gets added to MU.

The 6 months gap isn't that bad unless for the major events/shakedowns that everyone will be talking about (like this month Cap). You have to restrain yourself from the spoilers. But overall I am discovering and reading stuff that I would not try otherwise, and enjoying it (i.e. I wouldn't have tried Iron man and it is really good). I am also saving myshelf from something I thought I would enjoy but in the end did not (like Spider-man) since I am out of US and would have to preorder physical editions. Plus I am also enjoying stuff I missed from 90s/2000s and easily rewriting stuff that I liked back them. The service is totally worth it.

 

[LordOfLore]

Didn't Jim Lee have some plans for a Unlimited-like service back when N52 launched? I'm guessing they looked at their collection sales and said "We sell much better than Marvel in this part of the market. Let's not ruin something good."

 

[NeonZ]

If the Joker is some bizarre manifestation of Gotham's madness channeled through some poor smucks that makes him like the 4th Eldritch Horror of Gotham (Gotham: More Eldritch Abominations per Square Foot than R'lyeh)

I don't even mean something supernatural, just an idea and identity that got adopted by several insane people with similar traits.

They can use a supernatural shade to give some flavor, but without actually using some demon or spirit to explain them, like what Snyder's End Game did regarding the Joker finding some kind of Lazarus pit.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Didn't Jim Lee have some plans for a Unlimited-like service back when N52 launched? I'm guessing they looked at their collection sales and said "We sell much better than Marvel in this part of the market. Let's not ruin something good."

I would love a DC Unlimited subscription service and I see this explanation all the time about why DC is temptative about it. But is that actually true ? Sure, Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns and a few others are always selling well but whenever I look at the list of best-selling graphic novels and collections, whether it be Diamond or Amazon, I see a lot more Marvel and Image than DC. Am I missing something ?

 

[BossDarkseid]

Didn't Jim Lee have some plans for a Unlimited-like service back when N52 launched? I'm guessing they looked at their collection sales and said "We sell much better than Marvel in this part of the market. Let's not ruin something good."

He did. He was the one who fought for day 1 digital releases at DC, which I remember reading initially took some convincing for Diane Nelson to agree to. I think I remember seeing that they wanted to do a DC Unlimited but yeah, pretty much business reasons because they sell quite well on their trades, esp on the books that maybe don't get picked up that much as ongoings.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Didn't Jim Lee have some plans for a Unlimited-like service back when N52 launched? I'm guessing they looked at their collection sales and said "We sell much better than Marvel in this part of the market. Let's not ruin something good."

Before they do an unlimited service they should try giving digital customers discounted subscriptions like Marvel does for their print stuff. You can get a sub for 12 Marvel issues for $25 and they come with digital issues (problem is, they take a bazillion years to arrive and you have missed most discussion by then). If DC could let me buy 12 issues up front for a discount like that I'd read like 10 titles of there's a month.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Interesting interview with Geoff Johns: http://www.blastr.com/2016-5-25/reb...f-johns-offers-depth-breakdown-epic-new-comic

Mostly a breakdown of elements of Rebirth, with a sprinkling of what's coming next.

Probably the choicest bit:

Will Shazam be getting his own book? What about Justice Society and Legion of Super Heroes? And what’s the strategy to rolling it out?

“There will be a Shazam book. Not by me, but they’re definitely doing a Shazam book. One of the reasons they’re double shipping, the advantage to double-ship, is to take the number of titles and contract it, and the number of characters. Get these characters right. Then, slowly, when you’ve made sure everything’s working in a great way, then Shazam comes out. Legion of Super-Heroes comes out. Justice Society comes out. Atom comes out. All the other books can come out. But it’s important to get them done right first. It is hard to launch 52 books, and make them all great. I think it’s better to focus on fewer characters, then expand it as the emotional base is back.”

 

[Ashby]

Interesting interview with Geoff Johns: http://www.blastr.com/2016-5-25/reb...f-johns-offers-depth-breakdown-epic-new-comic

Mostly a breakdown of elements of Rebirth, with a sprinkling of what's coming next.

Probably the choicest bit:

Bit that stood out to me:

‘DC.’ Legacy, that was a big one. It’s gone! I wrote the JSA for nine years. Of course I’m upset they don’t exist. That’s nine years of my life that’s gone! I am proud of that run. And to see the JSA wiped out? The same thing with the Teen Titans. I am completely open to change, but I also don’t like the slash and burn of history.

Really interested in finding out how Johns evolved to this POV considering he's the one who brought New 52 into being. It's very fascinating and of course as a huge Post-Crisis fan I'm glad that he is now thinking this way.

 

[Ogodei]

The Joker's one of the few DC villains who works as a meme as much as an individual, so explored over the years and interpreted in so many different ways, why not just have him be anyone who's had one too many rotten days?

 

[tim1138]

Bit that stood out to me:

Really interested in finding out how Johns evolved to this POV considering he's the one who brought New 52 into being. It's very fascinating and of course as a huge Post-Crisis fan I'm glad that he is now thinking this way.

The story I've always heard is that the New 52 was completely a Didio/Lee idea and Johns was totally against it because it destroyed the legacy of the DCU. Based on his tone in the interviews for Rebirth, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment. There have been a couple times now we're he's openly criticized the New 52 for being directionless and killing any emotional connections the readers had with the characters.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Interesting interview with Geoff Johns: http://www.blastr.com/2016-5-25/reb...f-johns-offers-depth-breakdown-epic-new-comic

Mostly a breakdown of elements of Rebirth, with a sprinkling of what's coming next.

Probably the choicest bit:

It's a really good interview. I liked his comments on Dr Manhattan:

“That will be a future conversation! That would be a good story to tell. And I will say, it would be a story that would not involve double-page spreads of super heroes smashing their fists into Doctor Manhattan. You have to treat that very carefully. It is an intellectual and emotional story. It is definitely not a 10-part crossover. That story is a special, special story to tell.

Making him the Anit-Monitor v2 would be terrible. It is concerning that DC doesn't have a clear pathway on how this story is going to continue. People will feel burned if it isn't followed up on well.

 

[Ashby]

The story I've always heard is that the New 52 was completely a Didio/Lee idea and Johns was totally against it because it destroyed the legacy of the DCU. Based on his tone in the interviews for Rebirth, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment. There have been a couple times now we're he's openly criticized the New 52 for being directionless and killing any emotional connections the readers had with the characters.

Great to hear. Feels good to be a Geoff Johns fan again. Really looking forward to the stuff he puts out when he comes back after a while away from comics.

 

[Schweinehund]

Interesting interview with Geoff Johns: http://www.blastr.com/2016-5-25/reb...f-johns-offers-depth-breakdown-epic-new-comic

Mostly a breakdown of elements of Rebirth, with a sprinkling of what's coming next.

Probably the choicest bit:

fuck yeah, finally, jesus christ.

I just hope it does well enough and is good, I'm scared that Geoff Johns isn't on it.

Bit that stood out to me:



Really interested in finding out how Johns evolved to this POV considering he's the one who brought New 52 into being. It's very fascinating and of course as a huge Post-Crisis fan I'm glad that he is now thinking this way.

I was under the impression that Geoff didn't really propose the new 52, he was working on a flash family book at the time I think. It seemed impromptu and mostly a business decision. edit: Oh tim already said that. Yeah Geoff loves continuity.

 

[shingi70]

Even with all this rebirth hoopla, Doctor Fate is the book I'm looking most forward to next week.

 

[Sou Da]

The story I've always heard is that the New 52 was completely a Didio/Lee idea and Johns was totally against it because it destroyed the legacy of the DCU. Based on his tone in the interviews for Rebirth, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment. There have been a couple times now we're he's openly criticized the New 52 for being directionless and killing any emotional connections the readers had with the characters.

Sounds like Whedon style backpedaling. Buffy movie, AR, etc.

 

[Lashley]

Even with all this rebirth hoopla, Doctor Fate is the book I'm looking most forward to next week.

My man.

Love me some fatey

 

[Shamrock7r]

Bit that stood out to me:



Really interested in finding out how Johns evolved to this POV considering he's the one who brought New 52 into being. It's very fascinating and of course as a huge Post-Crisis fan I'm glad that he is now thinking this way.

I'm glad to hear that. One of the best things DC did was create legacy lines of heroes and pass that torch. It was a way to naturally and organically diversify their line while adding some much needed interest and design changes to a lot of their main heroes.

 

[ElNarez]

Even with all this rebirth hoopla, Doctor Fate is the book I'm looking most forward to next week.

Doctor Fate was such a good fucking book and DC better have something to put Sonny Liew on after that because his comics have the exact right style I want from comics today.

 

[Vyer]

The story I've always heard is that the New 52 was completely a Didio/Lee idea and Johns was totally against it because it destroyed the legacy of the DCU. Based on his tone in the interviews for Rebirth, that seems to be a pretty accurate assessment. There have been a couple times now we're he's openly criticized the New 52 for being directionless and killing any emotional connections the readers had with the characters.

I remember reading an interview either with him or Didio where this was talked about, but for the life of me I can't recall where.

 

[shingi70]

Surprised doctor fate is ending. I thought Levity had it in his contact that he could write a book whenever he wanted or something.

 

[tim1138]

Surprised doctor fate is ending. I thought Levity had it in his contact that he could write a book whenever he wanted or something.

It's going to at least issue 18. A month or so ago, Liew said DC reevaluates it every six issues. Has it gotten better? I bailed after the first arc because it felt very repetitive.

 

[shingi70]

It's going to at least issue 18. A month or so ago, Liew said DC reevaluates it every six issues. Has it gotten better? I bailed after the first arc because it felt very repetitive.

Issue seven is when the series really hit its stride, I'm hoping Khalid is around during Rebirth.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Surprised doctor fate is ending. I thought Levity had it in his contact that he could write a book whenever he wanted or something.

It made it into the August solicits, so we'll see if it's going anywhere. Seems to be like Earth 2 and Gotham Academy, one of the books that's not getting Rebirth but also sticking around.

It's going to at least issue 18. A month or so ago, Liew said DC reevaluates it every six issues. Has it gotten better? I bailed after the first arc because it felt very repetitive.

Yeah, gets much better after they finallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly wrap up the origin story.

 

[Ashby]

I'm glad to hear that. One of the best things DC did was create legacy lines of heroes and pass that torch. It was a way to naturally and organically diversify their line while adding some much needed interest and design changes to a lot of their main heroes.

I'd say it's their most valuable asset as well. Building and paying off legacy is what separates them from Marvel.

 

[flaxknuckles]

I'd say it's their most valuable asset as well. Building and paying off legacy is what separates them from Marvel.

Not anymore.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Didn't Jim Lee have some plans for a Unlimited-like service back when N52 launched? I'm guessing they looked at their collection sales and said "We sell much better than Marvel in this part of the market. Let's not ruin something good."

I've heard this backlog thing on GAF three times now. Nobody ever has an ounce of evidence to support the claim.

I'm fairly certain based on current market and mind share that it's patently false.

 

[ZeroX03]

That Johns interview was great. Loved everything he said, and I really hope he takes that vigor to the cinematic universe.

I've actually been thinking about the Barry/Wally moment - which did make me cry - for a while. First I loved it. Then I thought: "well it really should have been Linda", that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Then I realized they've done that plot with Linda like five times already. And Linda is deeply specific to Wally, whereas hugging Barry was much more connected to the theme of legacy as well as love. And exploring the Linda relationship can happen in Titans or some future Flash title. So I came back around to loving it because it meant more to the DCU. Stuck with me a lot more than the Watchmen stuff.

I remember reading an interview either with him or Didio where this was talked about, but for the life of me I can't recall where.

In Fat Man on Batman he mentions he was against New 52 for quite a while until they dragged him into it.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I've heard this backlog thing on GAF three times now. Nobody ever has an ounce of evidence to support the claim.

I'm fairly certain based on current market and mind share that it's patently false.

No, its completely true. DC's backlog sales through the bookstore market more than double Marvel's, $21M vs $10M. Maybe that doesn't include tens of millions of dollars in mindshare value though?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/tilting-at-windmills-bookscan-2015-analysis

 

[VanWinkle]

I just hope it does well enough and is good, I'm scared that Geoff Johns isn't on it.

I want Cameron Stewart to write and draw it.

 

[BKatastrophe]

As far as I've heard none of the Red Hood books have done particularly well (and a quick Google for sales rankings seems to confirm that, it seems to track around ~100 and only draws around ~20-25K consistently. That isn't the kind of numbers that would normally get you continually new series. ). I guess someone just wants to push Red Hood for some reason since he keeps getting new books.

The entire premise seems kind of flawed honestly since the intended draw seems to be Batman who kills, which may work as a standalone character somewhere in the DCverse that isn't anywhere near Gotham, but doesn't with someone with such perceived close ties to Batman himself since people who regularly read existing Batman books are unlikely to be particularly interested in a Batman who kills given that they are you know reading Batman books.

I read the first trade of Red Hood and the Outlaws and the first six issues of Red Hood and Arsenal. If anything Jason should be being pushed as a Moon Knight equivalent. Street-level assassin dealing with mystical threats. I like Jason, but DC clearly has no idea what the fuck to do with him. Same with Arsenal. I found both books to be boring, personally. Lobdell doesn't know how to write chemistry. Seriously.

 

[Schweinehund]

I want Cameron Stewart to write and draw it.

I dunno who I'd want to do Shazam tbh. Waid has always wanted to tackle it, he'd probably be suitable. I know the popular fan opinion seems to be Orlando because he did the darkseid war one shot. They could probably "batgirl" Shazam and make it work, but I like John's direction and liked to see that continued. So long as the writer doesn't regress back to golden age style storytelling, which I think hurts Shazam's sales and sustainability.

Just catching up reading Titan's Hunt, not a particularly memorable story but I think Abnett's titans should atleast be worth checking out, the characters are likeable with the way he wrote them. I had finished Geoff John's Titans run recently and I liked the first half but the second half became bogged down with cross overs and I think Johns lost interest after he delivered his story with Superboy being brainwashed. Wonder if we'll see Kon back soon, I know Johns flat out said New 52 Kon wasn't really Kon, but we have Jon now as Superboy...

Starting to read Lois & Clark, seems like middle of the road stuff, which Jurgens excells at. I do like Tomasi so I think his book will be the more interesting between AC & Superman. I wish the Super League trade wasn't so far off :/.

For those that have read Super League, I heard it had a strong start, did it maintain consistency or shit the bed toward the end?

 

[Dorpheus]

I've heard this backlog thing on GAF three times now. Nobody ever has an ounce of evidence to support the claim.

I'm fairly certain based on current market and mind share that it's patently false.

I think it has the feeling of being correct, as nothing Marvel publishes comes to most people's minds in the way that Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman do. I really wouldn't be surprised if it did pull in more money, though. Watchmen in particular is well respected outside of comic circles and I can't imagine that doesn't translate into sales.

 

[Ashby]

I dunno who I'd want to do Shazam tbh. Waid has always wanted to tackle it, he'd probably be suitable. I know the popular fan opinion seems to be Orlando because he did the darkseid war one shot. They could probably "batgirl" Shazam and make it work, but I like John's direction and liked to see that continued. So long as the writer doesn't regress back to golden age style storytelling, which I think hurts Shazam's sales and sustainability.

Just catching up reading Titan's Hunt, not a particularly memorable story but I think Abnett's titans should atleast be worth checking out, the characters are likeable with the way he wrote them. I had finished Geoff John's Titans run recently and I liked the first half but the second half became bogged down with cross overs and I think Johns lost interest after he delivered his story with Superboy being brainwashed. Wonder if we'll see Kon back soon, I know Johns flat out said New 52 Kon wasn't really Kon, but we have Jon now as Superboy...

Starting to read Lois & Clark, seems like middle of the road stuff, which Jurgens excells at. I do like Tomasi so I think his book will be the more interesting between AC & Superman. I wish the Super League trade wasn't so far off :/.

For those that have read Super League, I heard it had a strong start, did it maintain consistency or shit the bed toward the end?

I hope Wally at least asks about Bart.

 

[Sou Da]

We post any redesigns yet?

Bizarro and Artemis look really dumpy

I like that Tim finally got rid of the wings but this looks way too busy, like something that should be a movie Robin design. He also looks way too much like Robin instead of Red Robin, like he repurposed an old suit.

Presented without comment.

 

[Tragicomedy]

No, its completely true. DC's backlog sales through the bookstore market more than double Marvel's, $21M vs $10M. Maybe that doesn't include tens of millions of dollars in mindshare value though?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/tilting-at-windmills-bookscan-2015-analysis

So in the top 20 last year, there is exactly one DC and one Marvel book, and they're separated by under 200 total sales. But fair game, this is the first evidence I've seen to back the claim.

That gap is likely going to cost a lot this year, given all the Star Wars books dropping. They only factored in for the last few months of 2015. They seem to sell like hotcakes regardless of quality (in fairness, I like the main book).

 

[shingi70]

Red Robin is so lazy and kinda approximate for a lame as also ran like Tim.

 

[Sou Da]

Red Robin is so lazy and kinda approximate for a lame as also ran like Tim.

Get out.

 

[Lashley]

Hate it.

 

[greycolumbus]

Fucking eeeew at Batman Beyond

 

[jph139]

Yeah that Red Robin costume is kind of trash. The RR is dumb. Just make him Robin, jeez.

I do like Bizarro, though.

 

[MHWilliams]

Issue seven is when the series really hit its stride, I'm hoping Khalid is around during Rebirth.

I was hoping Khalid was the Fate appearing in Blue Beetle, but given this other Fate and Rebirth, I guess that's not the case.

 

[Sou Da]

Fucking eeeew at Batman Beyond

What's wrong with it?

 

[exmachina64]

What's wrong with it?

The red eyes and outsoles are the biggest offenders.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Beyond suit never looks good in high detail, tbh. All one and the same to me.

 

[SJRB]

Those eyes on the Batman Beyond outfit are just... What the fuck.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

I liked Bizarro. Artemis is bad, Red Robin is too Robin, Tim deserves more. Batman Beyond looks never fit the comics, its asthetics were great from the show, but in the more realistic comics it always looks off. But those eyes...

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Who is the Rebirth Batman Beyond?

 

[Shaanyboi]

Who is the Rebirth Batman Beyond?

Terry

 

[Maddocks]

Who is the Rebirth Batman Beyond?

The one true king, Terry McGinnis.

 

[Yamabro]

Even with all this rebirth hoopla, Doctor Fate is the book I'm looking most forward to next week.

I think you just sold me on this comic. I like the art.