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[zulux21]

He could have just as well just walk into there and let himself get captured.

if he had done there barry and cisco would just be outside his cage repeatedly going.
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"
"what is your plan."
"why did you let us capture you"

until the end of time because they would never remotely believe he wasn't plotting something. Even without the back up they had figure out he was charging himself, he could have easily faked his speed running a muck in a 1 on 1 battle and made barry think he managed to get lucky and beat him. The back up just let him put on a better show.

As I said it really doesn't matter if he threw it or not in the grand scheme of things, but I choose to believe he threw it because other wise it was a very poorly done fight with a lot of logistic problems, where if he threw it they all went away because he chose for a number of the logistic issues to happen to him.

To be fair to some degree I am not even convinced that arrow and flash are actually in the same universe. I feel like they are in universes similar to each other, but the arrow that shows up in flash is clearly not the arrow from arrow. The arrow in flash is intelligent, plans ahead and feels experienced. While the arrow from Arrow rarely ever has a plan and usually is just a shoot first and if I miss run after them and try to make up for things kind of guy. Plus the entire cast of Arrow just are happier in the flash, a clear sign they are from a different universe than the arrow currently is in

 

[Xemnas89]

The thing is...if Barry would save his mother, it would literally erase all the evil Eobard did. And since he inherited Well's emotions that likely was a very tempting idea. He never seemed like a psycho on the show. he just did what was necessary and if his plan would work, everybody he killed would still be alive.

A possibility but he might also have known that saving her would cause a complete disaster of flashpoint proportions.

 

[zulux21]

A possibility but he might also have known that saving her would cause a complete disaster of flashpoint proportions.

to be fair aside from the end flashpoint turned out

Spoiler

pretty damn well for RF in the movie lol.

 

[Xemnas89]

to be fair aside from the end flashpoint turned out

Spoiler

pretty damn well for RF in the movie lol.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Maybe Wells wanted that to happen. It wouldn't be quite the same as in the comics or the animated movie but it was have a similar enough ending.

 

[Wiktor]

A possibility but he might also have known that saving her would cause a complete disaster of flashpoint proportions.

But that would be a suicide for him. If Flashpoint happens there's no future for him to get back to. Heck..unless she is saved, even if the world doesn't end, the future he returns to will likely be quite different than the one he called home.

 

[Xemnas89]

But that would be a suicide for him. If Flashpoint happens there's no future for him to get back to. Heck..unless she is saved, even if the world doesn't end, the future he returns to will likely be quite different than the one he called home.

Everything would be different if he saved her though. Would Thawne have lost his ability to harness the speed force if she lived? If not then all his experiences as Wells would be erased and he'd likely keep on trying to find a way to kill the flash.

 

[Wiktor]

Everything would be different if he saved her though. Would Thawne have lost his ability to harness the speed force if she lived? If not then all his experiences as Wells would be erased and he'd likely keep on trying to find a way to kill the flash.

Well..that just means he wouldn't waste those 15 years on pretending he's Wells. Pretty nice deal. Either way, he gains nothing by causing Flashpoint

 

[Xemnas89]

Well..that just means he wouldn't waste those 15 years on pretending he's Wells. Pretty nice deal. Either way, he gains nothing by causing Flashpoint

Yeah but thawne without having absorbed some of the traits of harrison wells (which he apparently did according to andrew kreisberg) might have been unhinged enough to want to kill barry even if it meant dying himself. Really though its all speculation and I doubt we ever find out what would've happened in the shows continuity if he saved his mom.

 

[zulux21]

Yeah but thawne without having absorbed some of the traits of harrison wells (which he apparently did according to andrew kreisberg) might have been unhinged enough to want to kill barry even if it meant dying himself. Really though its all speculation and I doubt we ever find out what would've happened in the shows continuity if he saved his mom.

I believe we will.
at some point barry has to be the older barry who pulled the papa kent, which right before we reach that point is when a what if would be a perfect fit.

aka at some point barry has to have a fight with eobard RF as well to have them both go back to that time in the first place.

I mean it's possible that they will resolve the end of the season to retcon that need, but as it currently stands it would make a fun mid of season 3 or so arc.

 

[ZeroX03]

 

[Wiktor]

Must have been embarassing to get flacid in the middle of the action like that

 

[Crud]

Flash S2 finna be hype!

 

[Xemnas89]

Love this shot. Wells isn't phased by the lack of speed

Flash S2 finna be hype!

Oh no doubt about that. Some many things are open to them next season.

 

[carlsojo]

Love this shot. Wells isn't phased by the lack of speed

Spoiler

At this point, RF did just not give a fuck, like he pretty much fought Flarrowstorm for fun and it was awesome. Love how he stood toe to toe with Oliver. He came to Star Labs to turn himself in so Barry could go back in time.

 

[Mario007]

Thinking about the Arrowverse, Olliver Queen is officially the most badass man in the universe. This is a man who beat The Dark Archer, Deathstroke (twice), Ra's al Ghul, The Flash and you can make a compelling case that he did most of the heavy lifting when it came to beating Reverse Flash. And he's not even a metahuman.


That's some resume.

 

[ZeroX03]

Thinking about the Arrowverse, Olliver Queen is officially the most badass man in the universe. This is a man who beat The Dark Archer, Deathstroke (twice), Ra's al Ghul, The Flash and you can make a compelling case that he did most of the heavy lifting when it came to beating Reverse Flash. And he's not even a metahuman.


That's some resume.

He's the goddamn Vigilante Hood Arrow Al Sah-Him Batman Oliver Queen.

 

[Joni]

Thinking about the Arrowverse, Olliver Queen is officially the most badass man in the universe. This is a man who beat The Dark Archer, Deathstroke (twice), Ra's al Ghul, The Flash and you can make a compelling case that he did most of the heavy lifting when it came to beating Reverse Flash. And he's not even a metahuman.


That's some resume.

He even saved two planes, take that Supergirl.

 

[Wiktor]

Thinking about the Arrowverse, Olliver Queen is officially the most badass man in the universe. This is a man who beat The Dark Archer, Deathstroke (twice), Ra's al Ghul, The Flash and you can make a compelling case that he did most of the heavy lifting when it came to beating Reverse Flash. And he's not even a metahuman.


That's some resume.

His love resume is also the most impressive one

Btw...isn't Barry still a virgin?

 

[Joni]

We don't know how Linda acts.

 

[tim1138]

Thinking about the Arrowverse, Olliver Queen is officially the most badass man in the universe. This is a man who beat The Dark Archer, Deathstroke (twice), Ra's al Ghul, The Flash and you can make a compelling case that he did most of the heavy lifting when it came to beating Reverse Flash. And he's not even a metahuman.


That's some resume.

No one beat the Reverse Flash, he let himself be captured to be put in a place he would have access to Barry and could keep manipulating him.

 

[Wiktor]

No one beat the Reverse Flash, he let himself be captured to be put in a place he would have access to Barry and could keep manipulating him.

As this thread has shown, there's a big disagreement on that

 

[Cheebo]

I think Barry leaping out of the time portal, fist first, right into the Reverse-Flash destroying his little time machine was the most comic booky thing I have ever seen in any live action super hero material both on film and tv.

And it was perfect.

 

[ZeroX03]

Btw...isn't Barry still a virgin?

None of the guys on this show are getting any action, except for Eddie.

Spoiler

So now nobody's getting laid!

Every woman in the Arrowverse is reserved for Oliver Queen, except for Thea who settles for the closest non-related thing. Hell he's married to a lesbian, and is on Iris' list.

 

[wildfire]

I wonder if you guys are going to be able to accept a goodguy Wells and "you're not my son" Joe if this timeline change is as disruptive as I think it might end up being.

 

[Reuenthal]

Wells might had been lying but the way I understood it: original timeline is one where the Flash becomes the Flash without the same shenanigans and with both of his parents. Maybe it takes longer for him to become the Flash. Then Reverse Flash learns his name in the future and goes in the past to kill him as a small child. Fails and kills the Flash's mother. So Barry with both of his parents doesn't seem that bad Barry necessarily.

 

[Pachimari]

How is Vixen coming along?

 

[Poodlestrike]

How is Vixen coming along?

Haven't heard a thing since the announcement.

 

[Joe Prodigy]

Holy moly. I was just thinking about Arrow and Flash. What if season 2 of Flash goes to a different timeline and that affects Arrows timeline. Therefore erasing Oliver's happy ending and possibly setting him up as Green Arrow? Something like that would be crazy.

 

[Mariolee]

How is Vixen coming along?

Not sure, it still seems to be going to air this fall on CW Seed apparently and I don't think there was any news from the Upfronts. I actually totally forgot about this show. So does that mean we're going to have five potential Arrowverse shows airing in the same season (the "potential" referring to Supergirl)?? That's insanity.

 

[Mariolee]

Holy moly. I was just thinking about Arrow and Flash. What if season 2 of Flash goes to a different timeline and that affects Arrows timeline. Therefore erasing Oliver's happy ending and possibly setting him up as Green Arrow? Something like that would be crazy.

Eh I don't know, that would be too big of a crossover whose effects might alienate those who don't watch both shows. This is still what I think will happen on The Flash season 2:

If anything I'm guessing the wormhole closes but Barry ends up traveling to another universe. The main timeline is in tact but Barry is just stuck in a different one. That way Arrow still continues and the STAR Labs gang is still OK, but we still get to play with alternate universe episodes. Easy.

Willing to avatar bet and put a Reverse Flash mask on Chris Pratt if I'm not even close.

 

[Joe Prodigy]

Eh I don't know, that would be too big of a crossover whose effects might alienate those who don't watch both shows. This is still what I think will happen on The Flash season 2:



Willing to avatar bet and put a Reverse Flash mask on Chris Pratt if I'm not even close.

Oooo. I've always wanted to do an Avatar bet! Do I put a RF mask on mine if I bet you?

Edit: I agree with you about that the change might be too big. I'm just trying to think of a good way to get Ollie back. They just did a storyline where he had to come back and save the city after his absence. (Brick storyline) so hopefully it's not the same thing.

 

[Wiktor]

Eh I don't know, that would be too big of a crossover whose effects might alienate those who don't watch both shows. This is still what I think will happen on The Flash season 2:

Yep. Not to mention ut would essentially mean they're treating Arrow show as disposable garbage. And I doubt they do.

 

[Deadstarone]

Since we were talking about Zoom last week before the Flash finale, I went back and read some more of his appearances. Specifically the Cheeta/Zoom team-up.

If they do Zoom in the future of the show, if they can combine how he talks (described as sounding like a broken record player, slowing down and speeding up randomly) combined with looking like he does in this book it would be fucking terrifying.

That kind of wavy, TV losing it's tracking effect is creepy as shit.

 

[Night Angel]

I'm enjoying iZombie much more than I expected.

DD>Flash=iZombie>Arrow. Of the shows I watch.

 

[Nabs]

Holy moly. I was just thinking about Arrow and Flash. What if season 2 of Flash goes to a different timeline and that affects Arrows timeline. Therefore erasing Oliver's happy ending and possibly setting him up as Green Arrow? Something like that would be crazy.

I think they might give us what we want in the form of a different dimension. Flash will basically start season two like an episode of Sliders. This won't touch the main Arrow timeline, and we'll get to see some cool shit.

 

[Mariolee]

Oooo. I've always wanted to do an Avatar bet! Do I put a RF mask on mine if I bet you?

Edit: I agree with you about that the change might be too big. I'm just trying to think of a good way to get Ollie back. They just did a storyline where he had to come back and save the city after his absence. (Brick storyline) so hopefully it's not the same thing.

Haha sure. Avatar bet on!

Yep. Not to mention ut would essentially mean they're treating Arrow show as disposable garbage. And I doubt they do.

Yeah, I'm thinking after the criticism of this season the Arrow writers are going to learn from their mistakes and hit it out of the park next season.

Since we were talking about Zoom last week before the Flash finale, I went back and read some more of his appearances. Specifically the Cheeta/Zoom team-up.

If they do Zoom in the future of the show, if they can combine how he talks (described as sounding like a broken record player, slowing down and speeding up randomly) combined with looking like he does in this book it would be fucking terrifying.



That kind of wavy, TV losing it's tracking effect is creepy as shit.

So something like this?

 

[jon bones]

I can't wait for Legends of Tomorrow, looks like the cast might have some good chemistry within it.

The cliff hanger in The Flash really left me on a sour note, though. In retrospect, don't know how I made it through all those LOST finales.

At least we'll get Jay eventually... that shit is gonna be insane.

 

[wildfire]

Not sure, it still seems to be going to air this fall on CW Seed apparently and I don't think there was any news from the Upfronts. I actually totally forgot about this show. So does that mean we're going to have four potential Arrowverse shows airing in the same season?? That's insanity.

Vixen is part of the Arrowverse. Both Grant and Amell will be guest starring in the animated series.

 

[Mariolee]

Vixen is part of the Arrowverse. Both Grant and Amell will be guest starring in the animated series.

I meant to say five sorry haha

The "potential" was in reference to Supergirl since CBS doesn't want to do any crossovers yet and it will for the most part by standalone.

 

[Deadstarone]

So something like this?

Less shambling, but yeah. That's the gist. Best episode of Doctor Who last series too, imo.

 

[TDLink]

Vixen is part of the Arrowverse. Both Grant and Amell will be guest starring in the animated series.

Do we know yet when this is coming out?

 

[Schweinehund]

Some season 4 arrow speculation derived from interview with cast

Spoiler

So Katana isn't coming back for season 4, maseo is? This seems to play into no more suicide squad, cross TV/Movie characters. I really hope they have their plans sorted out now, can't help but feel that there was a lot of interference from WB this season. I was hoping shit like this would be avoided due to unconnected universes.

 

[paradox121]

Eh I don't know, that would be too big of a crossover whose effects might alienate those who don't watch both shows. This is still what I think will happen on The Flash season 2:



Willing to avatar bet and put a Reverse Flash mask on Chris Pratt if I'm not even close.

That sounds about right. Flash is basically just gonna turn into Fringe with its alt-Earth shenanigans. I'd say maybe three/four eps of Barry stuck in Earth-2, interacting with different versions of characters (no doubt trying to work out if alt-Wells is evil) while everyone back on Earth-1 tries to get him back. Maybe Cisco edges towards becoming Vibe with no superhero this end to help out. An Alt-Arrow would be a neat way to do the crossover without it just being a repeat of last years.

 

[Wiktor]

Some season 4 arrow speculation derived from interview with cast

Spoiler

So Katana isn't coming back for season 4, maseo is? This seems to play into no more suicide squad, cross TV/Movie characters. I really hope they have their plans sorted out now, can't help but feel that there was a lot of interference from WB this season. I was hoping shit like this would be avoided due to unconnected universes.

Spoiler

Dear writers, please don't bring Maseo back in current timeline. At most do flashbacks. His death was one of the most powerful moments this show ever had. Don't throw it away on some damn fan service. Death already is starting to loose it's meaning on Arrow. let this one stick please.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Spoiler

Dear writers, please don't bring Maseo back in current timeline. At most do flashbacks. His death was one of the most powerful moments this show ever had. Don't throw it away on some damn fan service. Death already is starting to loose it's meaning on Arrow. let this one stick please.

Personally, it would have been far more powerful if I had cared about the flashbacks. I still really enjoyed that moment. Best moment in the season personally, but the flashbacks were so average that it was hard to care.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Some season 4 arrow speculation derived from interview with cast

Spoiler

So Katana isn't coming back for season 4, maseo is? This seems to play into no more suicide squad, cross TV/Movie characters. I really hope they have their plans sorted out now, can't help but feel that there was a lot of interference from WB this season. I was hoping shit like this would be avoided due to unconnected universes.

That would make zero sense.

 

[Wiktor]

Personally, it would have been far more powerful if I had cared about the flashbacks. I still really enjoyed that moment. Best moment in the season personally, but the flashbacks were so average that it was hard to care.

Flashbacks somehow still made me care deeply about Maseo and Katana. I didn't enjoy a lot of them (I loved Oliver's tortute runs though..those were awesome), but somehow all of them combined still made me care so much about those two that their duel is my favorite moment in Arrow's history.

As a whole...I think there was this emerging feeling of epic in S3. And I mean in classical greek theatre way. The duel on the mountain, Katana/Maseo last scene, even Oliver sending Ra's off with a prayer. All felt like I was witnessing something grand, in almost mythological sense. I've never felt anything like this in any live action superhero adaptations. The only other time I did felt something similiar is the first Man of Steel trailer (the two versions with Crowe and Costner's narration). Unfortunatelly S3 was too uneven to make it last, but I'm still glad I got to see those moments and they show where Arrow could hopefully evolve to in the future.

 

[Cheebo]

The no movie characters thing is going to get weird because in about 2 years we are getting a Flash movie. How the hell do they do the no movie characters rule with that???

 

[jon bones]

I'm gonna be so bummed out if the WB messes with The Flash.

 

[wildfire]

The no movie characters thing is going to get weird because in about 2 years we are getting a Flash movie. How the hell do they do the no movie characters rule with that???

Flashpoint. Barry is replaced by Reverse Flash 2.0.