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December Wrasslin' |OT2| I dec-declare this territory owned by the Holy Roman Empire

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Ryback

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A

Aeternus Malum

Member
Spirit of Jazz said:
Have you got sources for this shit or are you full on dirt-sheet mode right now?
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Jim Ross and Steve Austin always talk about how comfortable the locker room is with being midcarders. Daniel Bryan even said on Punk's documentary that guys just hope they don't get picked for a Superstars match. It's true, they don't all have that burning desire to make it.

EDIT: they perhaps do want to make it but if they can't all stick up for themselves then they're not gonna get pushed. Ryder should have stuck up for himself in 2012. A lot of guys walk on eggshells
 
V

Vylash

Member
joykyKRsroDON.jpg


i really like this feud because it's been pretty much this
 
J

Jimmy King

Member
Data West said:
Because Vince is senile. Cesaro should have talked to people in Creative. Cesaro should have talked to Vince, talked to Dunn, talked to Hayes, Ace, HHH, whoever he had to talked to. Said something as simple as 'hey man I got this idea i'm really over and I think I could work a program with <blank>' And if they say 'sure pal'? Ask them next week. Ask them every fucking week. What's the worst they're gonna do, bury you? When you're not going anywhere anyways? Remember how much shit Bryan went through and was bulletproof? You either have to be so stupidly over that you can't be denied, chosen by Vince himself, or you gotta talk to Vince like Vince wants to be talked to. You hear all these interviews about Vince, and the only way you can truly get on his bad side is to take money out of his pocket. Vince wants a mother fucker to step to him, Vince wants you to have ideas and to say 'I don't want to do this. I want to do this.'

For fuck's sake, the man hired Eric Bischoff who wanted to run him out of business. He wants to be challenged.
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Yeah, it sucks. You would think most of this shit should write itself, or at the very least the monkeys hired to write would be able to connect the dots, but instead we just get BLURST.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Spirit of Jazz said:
Have you got sources for this shit or are you full on dirt-sheet mode right now?
Click to expand...

Which shit? The money thing? Kevin Nash shoot from KC. And the fact that the only wrestler Vince hasn't made amends with is Jeff Jarrett because of the Intercontinental title payday. Triple H talking about Sheamus being one of the few guys out there who 'wants it', Triple H on Jericho's podcast. JR talked about how guys like Sandow aren't furhter on the card because they just like where they are and have no drive to go higher.
He used the example of Steve Austin making himself a star at the 1996 King of the Ring and against Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13 to show how a good wrestler becomes a star. He said younger talent need to find a way to stand out.
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Why would I make shit up?
 
F

Fox318

Member
Data West said:
80s Bret Hart be on 80s twitter like 'well yeehaw i guess... #fuckthiscompany'


Because Vince is senile. Cesaro should have talked to people in Creative. Cesaro should have talked to Vince, talked to Dunn, talked to Hayes, Ace, HHH, whoever he had to talked to. Said something as simple as 'hey man I got this idea i'm really over and I think I could work a program with <blank>' And if they say 'sure pal'? Ask them next week. Ask them every fucking week. What's the worst they're gonna do, bury you? When you're not going anywhere anyways? Remember how much shit Bryan went through and was bulletproof? You either have to be so stupidly over that you can't be denied, chosen by Vince himself, or you gotta talk to Vince like Vince wants to be talked to. You hear all these interviews about Vince, and the only way you can truly get on his bad side is to take money out of his pocket. Vince wants a mother fucker to step to him, Vince wants you to have ideas and to say 'I don't want to do this. I want to do this.' Triple H talked about how people just expect things and storylines to happen for them and every shoot never goes into detail about their ideas being rejected which gives me the impression people immediately give up if they get shot down once or they can't show enough of a roadmap that Vince wants to follow. Is it fair that some people get handed great gimmicks and focus and others don't? No. But professional wrestling has NEVER been fair.

For fuck's sake, the man hired Eric Bischoff who wanted to run him out of business. He wants to be challenged.
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But doesn't that descibe how odd the work culture of the WWE is?

The fact that they so proudly display a sign like this

GeOhdxQ.jpg


Yet have a sport/artform that requires so much trust between performers is insane.

Otherwise you end up with shit like Hogan and Cena never wanting guys over and demanding the spot.

Shit like Hogan grabbing the belt first at Mania 6 and again stealing the spotlight at 9.

You need guys to sell moves and for them to lose in a way that makes somebody else look good.

Otherwise you get shit like this
6GVM52t.gif


Or dudes accidentally on purpose injuring people

Or shit like Nick Patrick not fast counting on the pin at Starcade because Hogan paid him off.
 
S

slightconfuse

Banned
I feel like the company you are describing data doesn't exist. Many moon ago you could have a fireside chat by Vince's pool. Nowadays everything filters down through the 500 writers they have. Vince cares about cena and only cena. Everything is filler now
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Fox318 said:
But doesn't that descibe how odd the work culture of the WWE is?

The fact that they so proudly display a sign like this

GeOhdxQ.jpg


Yet have a sport/artform that requires so much trust between performers is insane.

Otherwise you end up with shit like Hogan and Cena never wanting guys over and demanding the spot.

Shit like Hogan grabbing the belt first at Mania 6 and again stealing the spotlight at 9.

You need guys to sell moves and for them to lose in a way that makes somebody else look good.

Otherwise you get shit like this
6GVM52t.gif


Or dudes accidentally on purpose injuring people

Or shit like Nick Patrick not fast counting on the pin at Starcade because Hogan paid him off.
Click to expand...
That's because wrestling is entirely fucked. It was founded on fucked agreements by fucked people. I mean it's a medium based on lies. It's got dirt everywhere, and that's just the mentality that wrestling was when Vince grew up and watched his father deal with it. You still see it to some degree in the indies like with Davey Richards and that independent promotion, but it will become less and less likely in the WWE because wrestlers aren't trained with that important political skill that was developed entirely in territories or from wrestlers who came from territories. Wrestlers have the independent contractor mindset for their entire life, but they're losing that and they have no union to fall back on. So Vince is used to having these contract negotiations, he's used to guys saying 'this is bullshit', like I said, watch ANY Kevin Nash shoot where he talks about Vince. They had a close relationship when he was in the WWF, but he still had times where he'd call Vince and say 'what the fuck is this payday' while Vince would say' BIG D!' It's part of why I think Orton was able to get away with so much back in the day. Not because they didn't want him to go to TNA, but because he knew from Bob what he could and could not do and Vince liked that. Vince liked putting up with Punk's shit because Vince is a macho kind of guy and he likes wrestlers to have a spine.

Triple H seems to have the mentality of 'you work hard, I'll reward you' but who knows when he takes over IF he takes over and if he still has to deal with guys like Dunn who have a COMPLETELY different mentality than Vince and Triple H on that stuff.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
Data West said:
Which shit? The money thing? Kevin Nash shoot from KC. And the fact that the only wrestler Vince hasn't made amends with is Jeff Jarrett because of the Intercontinental title payday. Triple H talking about Sheamus being one of the few guys out there who 'wants it', Triple H on Jericho's podcast. JR talked about how guys like Sandow aren't furhter on the card because they just like where they are and have no drive to go higher.
Click to expand...

How much of that shit says anything about how Cesaro's acted back stage was my point? Was what trips said about Sheamus something he mentioned before he came a full time midcarder? It's pretty clear Cesaro isn't happy where he is like Sandow was from his current whining, and everything Vince said about Cesaro didn't seem to have shit to do with his lack of drive or ambition.

Why would I make shit up?
Click to expand...

And CM Punk cutting his promo from a few months focus is the modern equivalent. You're making points but I don't think they're pertinent in this era where everything's fucked up by a huge clueless writing staff and a love for merch sales.The fact is saying people fighting for a spot will give them a fair oppurtunity seems like bullshit to me when the poster child for that quit because of how they treated him.
 
F

Fox318

Member
slightconfuse said:
I feel like the company you are describing data doesn't exist. Many moon ago you could have a fireside chat by Vince's pool. Nowadays everything filters down through the 500 writers they have. Vince cares about cena and only cena. Everything is filler now
Click to expand...

Vince cares about making "Sports Entertainment" popular and he did. He made it main stream but he also did so in a way that has nearly killed an industry. He made storytelling a feature part of the content and that was a smart move but the in ring content needs to support it.

Goldberg needed somebody like Bill Demont to get over his first match but there is a problem when Vince goes to guys like Cesaro, Ziggler, and a Rollins quality worker to make the Great Khali go over.

Then he decided to go public in a business that probably would be better off not having to answers to investors.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Alvarez says he has heard about the possibility of Rollins/Sting at WM

Are you ready for some selling the likes of which we haven't seen since Hogan/HBK?
 
G

gurudyne

Member
Had a post in mind, but then I clicked that Brie Mode-Cesaro mashup link and it wiped my mind. Jist was DataWest is right about the consistency of the shoots pointing out Vince's predilections, but they're from people who were around in the 90s and early 00s. There's been examples lately of Vince having a lot of doublethink about his employees and business. That line about Cesaro still needing to find a connection with the fans after he was over last WM and creative botched his followup; or the attitude about the wrestlers needing to reach for brass rings when Ryder's Cena arc happened which several people have said had a huge demoralizing effect on them. (Ryder took to Twitter bitching in the wake of this, but that likely would not have happened if they hadn't dropped the ball so hard with him in the first place.) Big misteps and little done to correct them or restore wrestlers' faith in the management.

DW might be right about Vince needing to hear the same thing several weeks on end before he'll respect it, but it's just as possible that he's no longer that guy or that the old system of doing things doesn't work for the new guys for whatever reason, especially if things have to be filtered up through several layers of creative first.

RE: Trips' work-hard-rewards-will-come line: Lots of speculation that Trips guys are going to get pushed to the detriment of everyone else when he takes over, regardless of effort from the non-Trips guys. Hope that's either wrong or a temporary state of affairs (something like HHH making some sort of carny backstage political statement) because the idea of some of this carny mindset garbage lasting another generation would be incredibly disheartening.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
slightconfuse said:
Cesaro needs to Chanel his inner hase
Click to expand...

So he can be forgotten about in place of Hash, Chono, and Mutoh? Hase as B+ player as it gets
gurudyne said:
RE: Trips' work-hard-rewards-will-come line: Lots of speculation that Trips guys are going to get pushed to the detriment of everyone else when he takes over, regardless of effort from the non-Trips guys. Hope that's either wrong or a temporary state of affairs (something like HHH making some sort of carny backstage political statement) because the idea of some of this carny mindset garbage lasting another generation would be incredibly disheartening.
Click to expand...

NXT is an obvious sign that Triple H wants things the way he wants it and there is no politicking out of it. That combined with his supposed reaction at Punk vs Vince's makes it very clear Triple H doesn't want to be challenged. I think he'll still reward guys for going for it even if it's nothing major but it won't mean they're main eventers or anything. Because that's how wrestling works. A look will always be important. Even if Harley Race wasn't an Adonis he had A look, and he also wasn't featured weekly on TV and sold as action figures. People talk about NXT and compare it to early WCW/territories and that's great... If you're one of Hunter's guys. But one thing people forget about that era of wrestling that can be just as bad if not worse than Vince's picking and choosing... Nepotism. WCW back in the day ran on pure nepotism.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
Nashuary is dead and buried

Kevin Nash will not be appearing at the upcoming "RAW Reunion" special on January 19th in Dallas, Texas.

Nash was originally scheduled to appear along with Scott Hall, Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels, however WWE pulled him from the show due to the recent domestic incident with his son that led to his arrest.

As noted, WWE also suspended Nash from his "Legends" contract due to the same incident.
Click to expand...
 
S

strobogo

Banned
I'm ready to declare Night at the Museum Curse of the Rabbi's Tomb to be the worst movie of 2014. In a year where I saw such classics as Transformers 4, TMNT, Annabelle, Ouija, Hercules, Dracula Untold, Amazing Spiderman 2, Exodus, among other shitfests I can't even remember, I couldn't make it past 25 minutes of Night at the Museum. Which I got into for free. While drinking. Impossibly terrible.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Fox318 said:
But doesn't that descibe how odd the work culture of the WWE is?

The fact that they so proudly display a sign like this

GeOhdxQ.jpg


Yet have a sport/artform that requires so much trust between performers is insane.

Otherwise you end up with shit like Hogan and Cena never wanting guys over and demanding the spot.

Shit like Hogan grabbing the belt first at Mania 6 and again stealing the spotlight at 9.

You need guys to sell moves and for them to lose in a way that makes somebody else look good.

Otherwise you get shit like this
6GVM52t.gif


Or dudes accidentally on purpose injuring people

Or shit like Nick Patrick not fast counting on the pin at Starcade because Hogan paid him off.
Click to expand...

Let's fix this.

pfH2Kq8.png
 
J

Jimmy King

Member
I'm watching D-Bry and Kane's match where they win the tag titles at Night of Champions. How come more tag teams don't do shit where they actively help their partner like they did in this match?
 
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