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Democrat Debate 7 [CNN] But...the electorate refused to change

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I

Ithil

Member
zoozilla said:
I frankly dislike when either of them take cheap shots at the Republicans, no matter how deserving. It's the kind of pandering I like least.
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That last Republican debate was a load of children yelling at each other, it was an embarrassment and pandering or not, it deserves to be shit on.

At least there's an actual debate going on here.
 
R

Red

Member
pigeon said:
Okay, pretty good one-liner from Bernie.



This is exactly why Hillary is a better candidate.

Question: "What about X problem?"
Hillary: "X problem is complicated, here are some factors to consider and here is the actions I would take."
Bernie posters: "WHAT A DODGE, X PROBLEM IS OBVIOUS, JUST DO Y"

Here's an alternate theory: maybe you're ignorant! Maybe the world is actually complex and there actually are a variety of factors to consider and strategies to balance. That's why we need to elect a President that understands that things are not all black and white.
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Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
 
R

rtcn63

Member
Lemon reminds me of the plastic clone of Mickey Smith

latest
 
D

DuffDry

Member
ant1532 said:
i said it's relevant. i didn't say he answered the reform question fine, but it's relevant for him to bring it up then. i also didn't say helps reform k-12. if you were actually a parent, when you're putting your child into school you think about more than just middle school and high school for your child.
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It's not just that he brought up college, it's that he completely ignored addressing a critical issue with our public schools. It's why Bernie gets accused of being so single-issue, he seems totally uninterested in talking about any issues that don't involve his favorite three or four.
 
R

royalan

Member
pigeon said:
Okay, pretty good one-liner from Bernie.



This is exactly why Hillary is a better candidate.

Question: "What about X problem?"
Hillary: "X problem is complicated, here are some factors to consider and here is the actions I would take."
Bernie posters: "WHAT A DODGE, X PROBLEM IS OBVIOUS, JUST DO Y"

Here's an alternate theory: maybe you're ignorant! Maybe the world is actually complex and there actually are a variety of factors to consider and strategies to balance. That's why we need to elect a President that understands that things are not all black and white.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING
 
H

harSon

Banned
SaviourMK2 said:
I support Hillary's opinion on the Supreme Court nomination, but that was out of nowehre
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Considering the debate keeps pivoting back to Wall Street, Big Corporations and Special Interest groups - she's probably desperate to sneak in some comments about issues outside of the economy.
 
K

King Tubby

Member
pigeon said:
This is exactly why Hillary is a better candidate.

Question: "What about X problem?"
Hillary: "X problem is complicated, here are some factors to consider and here is the actions I would take."
Bernie posters: "WHAT A DODGE, X PROBLEM IS OBVIOUS, JUST DO Y"

Here's an alternate theory: maybe you're ignorant! Maybe the world is actually complex and there actually are a variety of factors to consider and strategies to balance. That's why we need to elect a President that understands that things are not all black and white.
Click to expand...

Of course he then mentioned talking to climate and environmental scientists throughout the world who denounce fracking, but who cares about that
 
W

Wafflecakes

Member
Crunched said:
Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
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Wrong question.

The question is whether he has as strong of a grasp on them as Hillary does, which by all appearances is a no..Either that or he is intentionally lying for votes.
 
V

valkillmore

Member
Hillary immediately flipped her clipboard over on her podium once Anderson threw to commercial. Lol Please Hillary Bernie not trying to read your crib notes.
 
P

Pineapple

Member
SaviourMK2 said:
I support Hillary's opinion on the Supreme Court nomination, but that was out of nowehre
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I thought I missed something.

Bernie hit her hard on campaign contributions from massive corporations, and the next thing I know, she's talking about electing someone to the Supreme Court.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Crunched said:
Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
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I believe his point is not that Sanders doesn't understand them, it's that he's simplifying them into flat yes or no answers for the sake of a big declaration to get applause.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
foxtrot3d said:
Agreed. Answer the questions, talk about the issues, we get enough cheap shots from the Republican debates.
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The idea that the party currently in a minority in Congress and is completely opposite of the GOP should take a backseat to making comparisons about the other side...

Please.....it's one of the reasons the GOP is back in a majority. They have demonized every single piece of legislation coming out from the Democrats by yapping around.

You take those shots and you sink the competition. It's required period.
 
C

Chindogg

Member
I'm trying to figure out how Sec Clinton's going to get a constitutional amendment passed with a congress that'll be foaming at the mouth to impeach her at the drop of a hat.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Crunched said:
Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
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Not really, but that doesn't make it better. That just means that Bernie thinks it's politically useful to tell people that complex problems are actually simple and have easy solutions, which strikes me as demagoguery.

It is certainly possible that Sanders understands fracking better than I do, but, I mean, I'm not running for President.

I 100% believe that Hillary Sander understands these issues way better than Bernie Sanders.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Crunched said:
Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
Click to expand...

I think that maybe... he's just not interested in finding out, honestly. He's got his worldview fixed; the finance sector, Wall Street, it's responsible for literally everything. His understanding of things not related to that seems pretty limited. It's not just this, think about his foreign policy answers, it's all pretty simplistic.

harSon said:
Considering the debate keeps pivoting back to Wall Street, Big Corporations and Special Interest groups - she's probably desperate to sneak in some comments about issues outside of the economy.
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She's said it before; besides, the case itself was centered around a hitpiece on her, specifically.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
GnawtyDog said:
The idea that the party currently in a minority in Congress and is completely opposite of the GOP should take a backseat to making comparisons about the other side...

Please.....it's one of the reasons the GOP is back in a majority. They have demonized every single peace of legislation coming out from the Democrats by yapping around.

You take those shots and you sink the competition. It's required period.
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In the general, not the primary.
 
M

Michael F. Assbender

Banned
King Tubby said:
Of course he then mentioned talking to climate and environmental scientists throughout the world who denounce fracking, but who cares about that
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So he'll talk only to those who support what he already believes, rather than listening to all credible sources to get a consensus? That goes right along with the idea that he doesn't understand the nuance needed in presidential politics.
 
A

Armaros

Member
Crunched said:
Do you believe Bernie Sanders is so naive as to not understand these issues? That he does not have as strong a grasp on them as you do?
Click to expand...

When he believes he can cut down on the level of incarcerations in the US with just the federal governemnt by an outrageous amount. (Hint: most of it is state prisons)

Or he believes that his bully pulpit will get his policies enacted by young people marching on DC.

Or by how many times he shifted to his stump on unrelelated subjects.

Or my favorite: how Iran and Saudi Arabia will join together vs ISIS.
 
D

Diablos

Member
boiled goose said:
I call BS here.
"Tearing down part = epic congressional battle"
Tearing down means tearing down. This is the dishonesty

If you move the debate to the left, you are not going to end up further right. This is silly. Obamacare (romney care) is pretty much the GOP solution when single payer is the progressive solution. We are not going back from obamacare.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/politifact-chelsea-clinton-bernie-sanders-health-plan-217779
Politifact rules this framing mostly false.

Again, I do think the political capital angle is fair. "tearing down" is clearly clearly dishonest. It's complete fear mongering.
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No. Bernie will tear down the inroads that Dems have made (and they have scars from it, see 2010). I'm not seeing a way for him to get what he wants but what would still happen is discourage any kind of change to healthcare policy even if incremental. I think Hillary has the right idea. Fix what we can with the ACA which in this climate is hard but not as hard as enacting single payer. It's not the process of simply signing a bill that replaces the ACA it's how you get there. Plus I'm not sold on how he would pay for all of his social proposals
 
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