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Destiny |OT15| What Cheese May Come

It just seems like Bungie doesn't want to put in any extra development time for unique features and options. Everything is kinda phoned in with minimal effort. Maybe all of their efforts are on Destiny 2? Things like not upgrading only the last 3 nodes, or having a unique speeder for Crota are signs of just not caring. Maybe I'm wrong - definitely not a software developer. Some kind of bureaucratic problems are going on in there.

It's most likely to do with House of Wolves and the sequel being developed at the same time (presumably). I think all they care about at this point is future content and cheese fixes.

The artificial difficulty for CE HM is a sign that they aren't interested in adjusting the experience for the current game beyond a few phone-in measures. All attention is now about future DLC and a new game. It's just the way of the world. Makes me wish that this game was it a la WoW and Bungie would just continue to update this for the next 10 years.
 

zewone

Member
Xur must be so confusing to new players considering you can "upgrade" a 331 damage exotic from him and now there's no way for new players to get the old exotics. Personally I've upgraded everything I wanted for weeks now and that part of Xur's menu is useless, and I didn't even go crazy upgrading stuff. Really hoping they don't pull that again. The difference between 300-3331ATTK doesn't even feel like much. For such a minor bump we should only have to unlock the damage upgrades and not the perks again. Or just keep the max attack value at 331, that's fine

Yep. I some a new-ish player in this thread who upgraded his maxed out 331 exotic because he thought you were supposed to. There is zero explanation in game as to what is happening.
 

Sane_Man

Member
It seems the reaction to hard mode is pretty much unanimously negative. The worst part is that we all know Bungee will do fuck all to rectify this. Such a bone headed company.
 

Dwalls

Neo Member
It just seems like Bungie doesn't want to put in any extra development time for unique features and options. Everything is kinda phoned in with minimal effort. Maybe all of their efforts are on Destiny 2? Things like not upgrading only the last 3 nodes, or having a unique speeder for Crota are signs of just not caring. Maybe I'm wrong - definitely not a software developer. Some kind of bureaucratic problems are going on in there.

That's what I feel like too, there is no development team making content at this point. There's a few people maintaining and everyone else has moved on to other projects. There is no ongoing improvement, everything from this point on is copy-paste, recoloured stuff. If they need to add difficulty nobody is going to design a more difficult version of that encounter, they're just going to add elite enemies that have 50% more armour and scale your damage back by an additional 33% by underleveling you for the encounter - that's not really fun by my definition of the term.

I just don't understand why'd they design an encounter for a peer to peer game, played by people seperated by oceans to have such tight timing windows too.
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
It seems the reaction to hard mode is pretty much unanimously negative. The worst part is that we all know Bungee will do fuck all to rectify this. Such a bone headed company.

It really is disappointing. What's funny is that, if this was released alongside normal mode, there would be less bitching. But ppl expected more because Bungie waited so long to release it.
 

E92 M3

Member
It's most likely to do with House of Wolves and the sequel being developed at the same time (presumably). I think all they care about at this point is future content and cheese fixes.

The artificial difficulty for CE HM is a sign that they aren't interested in adjusting the experience for the current game beyond a few phone-in measures. All attention is now about future DLC and a new game. It's just the way of the world. Makes me wish that this game was it a la WoW and Bungie would just continue to update this for the next 10 years.

I would love for them to treat this game like WoW, but that will never happen unfortunately. I never played WoW, but know all of the players are always feeling like they're taken care of and the content is new and exciting.

That's what I feel like too, there is no development team making content at this point. There's a few people maintaining and everyone else has moved on to other projects. There is no ongoing improvement, everything from this point on is copy-paste, recoloured stuff. If they need to add difficulty nobody is going to design a more difficult version of that encounter, they're just going to add elite enemies that have 50% more armour and scale your damage back by an additional 33% by underleveling you for the encounter - that's not really fun by my definition of the term.

I just don't understand why'd they design an encounter for a peer to peer game, played by people seperated by oceans to have such tight timing windows too.

Indeed, it's very sad especially with all of the time we put into this game. Crota's shields being prone to lag has screwed up so many of our runs where he was almost dead.
 

Deku Tree

Member
I'm up for normal as well. I just need some shards. I'm about to hit up lfg for the first time.

Looks like the hard raid broke gaf. Few on, and those that are, are spending hours banging their heads against hard crota.

Some of us just playing in our normal routine got a lot to do outside of videogame time and plan to beat it legit when we have the time.
 

Sullichin

Member
It seems the reaction to hard mode is pretty much unanimously negative. The worst part is that we all know Bungee will do fuck all to rectify this. Such a bone headed company.

I haven't been paying too much attention. What's the complaints, that it's just a harder version of the regular CE with no new mechanics?
 
Here's what I hate; the Crota fight just makes people angry at eachother. (not withstanding the aggravating glitches, and lag which lately has been incredibly bad). There is virtually no room for any single member of your team to fuckup. It's incredibly hard to pick up slack for anyone. Combine this with the fact that the entire experience is pointless unless you beat it since you get no xp, glimmer or anything. If you atleast received the glimmer to fund further attempts so you can purchase a 20 stack every so many wipes, it'd be slightly better. But the fact is that wiping repeatedly for 10 hours just costs you somewhere in the region of 120 heavy synths, and you don't even fire most of those rockets, they get eaten by the heavy ammo glitch which is still in - is seriously ruining the experience. Then there's the fact that the time between wipes tends to be super short, you're literally wiping every 10 to 20 kills - even if you're succesful most of your time is spent avoiding enemies instead of actively engaging them. You can't go toe to toe solo with any enemy besides the thrall and the acolytes, the hallowed knights take 5 or 6 fully upgraded black hammer headshots to kill, Furthermore the timing for the encounter is super tight, so any latency is virtually disasterous, meaning you kind of start disliking your party members with bad connections - because they're literally making the encounter more difficult. It honestly feels like Bungie doesn't play their own games and has no idea how the tweaks they make affect the gameplay. Crota's end is not fun, it removes the visceral feeling of the gunplay and turns all of your guns into paintballs for the sake of faked difficulty. It's not a fun co-op experience where people can chip in and help each other out, it polarizes your entire party, sends frustration skyrocketing and has people on the verge of rage quitting for 90% of the run.

We stopped last night when we got to Crota because it was too late, but we did start the encounter once or twice just to see what it was like and I have to agree with most of what you are saying. The heavy ammo glitch needs to be fixed. It's incredibly frustrating losing all your heavy ammo without even firing a single rocket. And you can't be level 32 without that stupid heavy ammo perk. Its also true that you are just running from things you are supposed to be killing because you can't regen your health. I mean you start the encounter trapped in a room, surrounded by hallowed Knights. And The thing that really gets to me is the gatekeeper in the bottom center area. That was not a cheese spot. It was a good strategic spot to use and now we can't use it.

I honestly don't know if I care enough to bother with that encounter
 

breakfuss

Member
Here's what I hate; the Crota fight just makes people angry at eachother. (not withstanding the aggravating glitches, and lag which lately has been incredibly bad). There is virtually no room for any single member of your team to fuckup. It's incredibly hard to pick up slack for anyone. Combine this with the fact that the entire experience is pointless unless you beat it since you get no xp, glimmer or anything. If you atleast received the glimmer to fund further attempts so you can purchase a 20 stack every so many wipes, it'd be slightly better. But the fact is that wiping repeatedly for 10 hours just costs you somewhere in the region of 120 heavy synths, and you don't even fire most of those rockets, they get eaten by the heavy ammo glitch which is still in - is seriously ruining the experience. Then there's the fact that the time between wipes tends to be super short, you're literally wiping every 10 to 20 kills - even if you're succesful most of your time is spent avoiding enemies instead of actively engaging them. You can't go toe to toe solo with any enemy besides the thrall and the acolytes, the hallowed knights take 5 or 6 fully upgraded black hammer headshots to kill, Furthermore the timing for the encounter is super tight, so any latency is virtually disasterous, meaning you kind of start disliking your party members with bad connections - because they're literally making the encounter more difficult. It honestly feels like Bungie doesn't play their own games and has no idea how the tweaks they make affect the gameplay. Crota's end is not fun, it removes the visceral feeling of the gunplay and turns all of your guns into paintballs for the sake of faked difficulty. It's not a fun co-op experience where people can chip in and help each other out, it polarizes your entire party, sends frustration skyrocketing and has people on the verge of rage quitting for 90% of the run.

Glad I saw this because after last night I left feeling completely disillusioned with the guys I normally run with. Puts things into perspective as I was beginning to think it was just the makeup of our team. ~6 hours and we couldn't pull it off.

The raids are still my favorite part so I won't let this shitty encounter sour me on the whole thing. Congrats to the gaffers who finished it though. Will try to restrict myself to no more than an hour to get it done tonight. It either happens or doesn't. After that it's off to much greener (and less tedious) pastures.
 
It's not fun. I'm swearing off of it once I get the Word of Crota and maybe the Crux of Crota.

I just think people are letting the game bother them too much. If the group you're with can't beat it in 2+ hours it's time to find a different group or come back later when there's an easier strategy. Don't let the game get the best of you.

CROTA!!!!!

Ill be back when the kinks are ironed out. until then I will try for the auto rifle (got the crappy pulse rifle) and Crota can just hold the fuck on until then. encounter is cheap and stupid. Congrats to the teams that finished it. Myself, an average player cant hope to finish this until I have a firm stratagy going in.

hard atheon was not that hard even out of gates. The perma death just forced players to be more careful. stratagies did not change ( with the exception of hiding in the spirit bloom room)
 

Sane_Man

Member
I haven't been paying too much attention. What's the complaints, that it's just a harder version of the regular CE with no new mechanics?

Yep, instead of trying to be creative and challenge us with figuring out interesting tactics and gameplay they've just turned everything into a bullet sponge with nightfall damage. I honestly can't imagine anyone genuinely enjoying playing it.
 
I dont know what to do either. I hated the Crota fight on normal until we got lvl 32 swordbearers. I started collecting vanguard marks today for the next expansion i feel Crota hard is just not worth it and i have not even tried it. :(
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Yep, instead of trying to be creative and challenge us with figuring out interesting tactics and gameplay they've just turned everything into a bullet sponge with nightfall damage. I honestly can't imagine anyone genuinely enjoying playing it.

Well, I enjoy playing with my raid group, so there's that :)
 
Yep, instead of trying to be creative and challenge us with figuring out interesting tactics and gameplay they've just turned everything into a bullet sponge with nightfall damage. I honestly can't imagine anyone genuinely enjoying playing it.

Not to say that they shouldn't add new mechanics.. but they sort of have to buff the health pools of certain mobs given that the go to strat nearly always involves "everyone unload with Gjall!"

They certainly aren't going to nerf Gjall as that would incite an even larger amount of rage.
 

border

Member
All I really want is a primary weapon of each elemental damage type so I can tear up Nightfalls that have Void/Arc/Solar Burn. Beyond that, who really cares?

I don't see the point in banging your head against the hard mode Crota when you'll be just as capable in Nightfalls with a Mythoclast, Fatebringer, Atheon's Epilogue, etc.
 

EL CUCO

Member
Some of us just playing in our normal routine got a lot to do outside of videogame time and plan to beat it legit when we have the time.
My son's bday today and having family over. If you're down for Friday, we're taking his ass down. If not, we'll just wait till the crew is ready.

Last night we had enough time for Crota to rotate twice during Ogres. We thought we had less so we rushed them and sloppy things happened.

That was our only mistake.
 

Deku Tree

Member
All I really want is a primary weapon of each elemental damage type so I can tear up Nightfalls that have Void/Arc/Solar Burn. Beyond that, who really cares?

I don't see the point in banging your head against the hard mode Crota when you'll be just as capable in Nightfalls with a Mythoclast, Fatebringer, Atheon's Epilogue, etc.

I'd like the nechrochasm too. Anyways I am confident that my raid crew will have CE hard on farm in not too long. It's alway rough in the beginning. Some of the melt downs in this thread are crazy though.
 

Navy Bean

Member
Watching some streams it just seems that HM Crota is only "hard" because of artificial barriers to success. Nerf the players, buff the enemies, etc. Just seems like a lazy job by Bungie and a frustrating experience.

I think everyone would welcome content that is hard for legit reasons - I'm thinking of some of the Dark Souls bosses like Ornstein who were really difficult but a ton of fun and rewarding to defeat. HM Crota seems to be the opposite.
 

Deku Tree

Member
My son's bday today and having family over. If you're down for Friday, we're taking his ass down. If not, we'll just wait till the crew is ready.

Last night we had enough time for Crota to rotate twice during Ogres. We thought we had less so we rushed them and sloppy things happened.

That was our only mistake.

I'm down for Friday.
 

Cybrwzrd

Banned
This fight is difficult - mostly because the learning curve is almost a learning cliff... but many of the meltdowns I think are attributed to lack of cutting edge raid experience in MMOs. I have been raiding at the bleeding edge in MMOs since Everquest first came out. I have been a part of server first kills with dedicated groups in WoW, and it still took us hours to learn the strategy that worked with our groups. It will click, and then you will be farming him.
 

Mindlog

Member
Gothalion's stream. Thralls attacking through the glass. Good stuff.
Not to say that they shouldn't add new mechanics.. but they sort of have to buff the health pools of certain mobs given that the go to strat nearly always involves "everyone unload with Gjall!"

They certainly aren't going to nerf Gjall as that would incite an even larger amount of rage.
Balancing against Gjallarhorn is something I understand. It really does need an... adjustment :x
Good to join us around 8ish tonight?
Good chance. I have a good feeling about beating him today.

I still despise the Gatekeeper. Would be so much better with Shriekers.
 

border

Member
I'd like the nechrochasm too. Anyways I am confident that my raid crew will have CE hard on farm in not too long.

If I hadn't already sunk a ton of time into upgrading the Eidolon Ally I probably wouldn't even be interested in the Necrochasm. I'll have to wait for impressions on how the Necrochasm performs -- I've grown rather tired of the low-stability bullet hose guns that are in the game.
 

border

Member
Balancing against Gjallarhorn is something I understand. It really does need an... adjustment :x

If they aren't going to let Xur sell Gjallarhorn then I don't think it's fair for them to balance against it. Let the people who got one enjoy an advantage, but don't make the encounter unwinnable for people that don't have one.
 
If they aren't going to let Xur sell Gjallarhorn then I don't think it's fair for them to balance against it.

Xur did sell it. And he'll likely sell it again at some point. I understand your point though and it's valid to an extent but the Devs also have to think about the perception of the content and not just the reality.
 
Not to say that they shouldn't add new mechanics.. but they sort of have to buff the health pools of certain mobs given that the go to strat nearly always involves "everyone unload with Gjall!"

They certainly aren't going to nerf Gjall as that would incite an even larger amount of rage.

Heavy ammo is scarce so I don't think you can run around using your gjallarhorn on every enemy. Don't think its them trying to balance against the gjallarhorn to be honest
 

Sullichin

Member
As a level 31 with no Gjallarhorn I have no idea when I'll even be able to attempt the hard raid. Still only have one raid piece on both of my characters.

Do we know if the first part can drop any exotic or just the pulse rifle? is it any good?
 
I look forward to today's weekly update where get to hear, "We're battling Crota right along side of you!" "It is so great to see such a strong community response." "The CE raid on hardmode is the ultimate challenge for only the strongest fireteams." "We hear your voices and our community is really important. We are planning some hotfixes for the CE HM Raid. Some of these hotfixes include; Gatekeeper tracking more aggressively, wizards spawning after each boomer kill, boomer range increased, boomers can no longer be blinded or suppressed, Crota enrage now RNG, fixed glitch where weapons were dropping at abyss and bridge, fixed glitch health regen through orbs and abilities was regening health. Eat dick guardians."
 
Heavy ammo is scarce so I don't think you can run around using your gjallarhorn on every enemy. Don't think its them trying to balance against the gjallarhorn to be honest

For some enemies more than others, I think so. I'm hearing a single Ogre takes about 7 Gjall rounds to kill in HM. Buffing their healthbar in particular makes Soloing much, much harder. Or at least a hell of a lot longer.
 

Hiko

Banned
All I really want is a primary weapon of each elemental damage type so I can tear up Nightfalls that have Void/Arc/Solar Burn. Beyond that, who really cares?

I don't see the point in banging your head against the hard mode Crota when you'll be just as capable in Nightfalls with a Mythoclast, Fatebringer, Atheon's Epilogue, etc.

Yup. I remember saying this a week ago. CE hard is completely pointless. If you do it, you're a masochist. None of the raid weapons are needed for Nightfall since our current arsenal can handle any burn with ease. When HoW comes out, you can come back for CE as a level 33+ and have a much easier time. I feel like a lot of guys are doing it on hard because of habit. Like they're stuck in the hamster wheel and don't know it.

Honestly, even the Nightfall itself is starting to become pointless. Most of us have all, or almost all, of the gear we want. So what's the point really? Same with Xur. Unless he decides to sell the horn again, nobody ever seems interested in what he sells. It's either repeat stuff or stuff you already got in the field. And that makes doing the Heroic pointless since there is no point to strange coins outside of Xur.

I think this is the first time I'm really seeing an end to Destiny. There is literally nothing left (of interest) to do for me outside of Crucible. But even that's kind of boring with the limited game types. I'm a level 31 with vendor gear and it will probably stay that way. I don't see myself buying HoW since it will be a repeat of CE, along with having to re-level exotics. Why pay $20 to redo all the work I just did just to have a higher number over my head?
 

blackflag

Member
It sucks when you don't have a Gjallahorn. You always feel like the rest of the raid is carrying you no matter what.

Especially with the new bubble/ignore knights tactic.

My Hunger of Crota won't help much.

They really need to fix that.

I don't have one and I've played for 768 hours....or 32 days
 

SkylineRKR

Member
People shouldn't look at Gjallarhorn being too strong, but they should look at other Heavies to be too weak.

Why would I waste Heavy ammo on Truth, Thunderlord or SGA in PvE? Its not like they are that much more powerful than your Special. Sure, Corrective Measure is a standout because of Surplus and its ridiculous mag, but the damage it deals isn't obscene.

Gjallarhorn is what its supposed to be, it clears groups and makes bullet sponges slightly easier. Which is why you should save up on that Heavy Ammo for them and actually be rewarded for wasting an exotic slot on a heavy.

So basically, make Truth stronger for PvE too. Give it lightning clusters or something to make it closer to Horn (it can still be weaker because you have better tracking and 3 rockets). Nothing wrong with heavies being the panic button in this game. They give limited shots and their ammo is expensive and doesn't drop that many times either (generally speaking).
 
Is it possible to knock the boomers off the top left and right platforms? You could try using the Sunsinger's Solar Wind ability. If they fall down they'd be far less of a threat and might not respawn since they're not really dead.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Is it possible to knock the boomers off the top left and right platforms? You could try using the Sunsinger's Solar Wind ability. If they fall down they'd be far less of a threat and might not respawn since they're not really dead.

They do fall down on their own sometimes. But they are immediately teleported back up. Knocking them off would probably do the same.
 
So for the people who have Abyss Defiant, what is the verdict? Going to try and at least do through Deathsinger tomorrow, don't know if I have the patience for HM Crota.
 
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