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Destiny |OT38| The 0.04% of the 4%

jgf

Member
I'm one of the weird ones that prefers sweats to stomps. May as well play with bots if stomp is the goal.

Of course the 'latency' filled games are no fun either.

There is no good solution.
IMHO the good solution would be connection based matchmaking and support for private matches. Just use private matches if you want to sweat. They don't need to do much. They could even implement private matches in the most simple way- like bloodborne: allow users to set a "password" for matchmaking in the settings and only match players with matching passwords. Done, no fancy gui required and people would be happy.
 
I'm one of the weird ones that prefers sweats to stomps. May as well play with bots if stomp is the goal.

Of course the 'latency' filled games are no fun either.

There is no good solution.

Yes there is. Connection based MM.

It's not an either/or situation, sweats or stomps. That "choice" doesn't exist. It's a choice between "the game works" and "the game is broken." Latency determines the quality of the experience. Lopsided games will always happen. Like Triple said in his video, that's the nature of competition. Trials (or self-made sweaty MM) was supposed to be where you went to choose sweaty competition. As Triple also said, that choice has been removed. It's literally impossible to choose the "relaxed" PvP experience they had previously told us we were supposed to expect from Crucible.

Shooting for this imaginary "equal skill matches" or ~50% wins is a total fallacy in a P2P game with notoriously bad netcode. The sooner people in the community understand this reality, the sooner (hopefully!) Bungie might finally admit they don't always know best and actually fix the problem. Right now they seem as out of touch on this issue as they've ever been with their game.
 

ocean

Banned
The thing is, you can prevent total stomps to a certain extent.

Match the best 12 people who are queuing. Low ping = only filter. Once you have those 12, you can split them up according to skill (as best as possible).

The issue is grabbing an MLG pro from Brazil to compensate for the low skill of a Russian scrub in your team. Shit's pure cancer.
 

Daemul

Member
I still don't understand why Bungie felt the need to address lopsided matches when that wasn't really an issue in the first place. Every PVP game has and will have lopsided games.

I don't understand it either, every MP shooter has lopsided games, we've all been on the backend of a hiding and we've all given out hidings, that's just life. Why Bungie feel compelled to change this when no one else bothers to is beyond me. Do they think loads of people quit if they get destroyed in matches? If that was even remotely the case then MP shooters would have died out long ago.
 
The thing is, you can prevent total stomps to a certain extent.

Match the best 12 people who are queuing. Low ping = only filter. Once you have those 12, you can split them up according to skill (as best as possible).

The issue is grabbing an MLG pro from Brazil to compensate for the low skill of a Russian scrub in your team. Shit's pure cancer.

I've never understood why this wasn't the obvious solution. Bungie definitely has access to a tracked skill level of ours so there is no reason they can't just balance teams after pulling in people with the best connections. Will it eliminate stampings? Maybe not, but it seems like the best way to strike a healthy balance.
 

Tri4

Member
I'm one of the weird ones that prefers sweats to stomps. May as well play with bots if stomp is the goal.

Of course the 'latency' filled games are no fun either.

There is no good solution.
It's not just sweats vs stomps. There's a middle ground where a game isn't too hard or too easy which is where I want it, and where it was before the matchmaking got fucked. It's fine if you like sweats though, but its not my favourite.

To me, destiny is a casual shooter. Like when I come home from college all tired, I wanna fit a couple of games in for fun. I want to be able to listen to music while playing (I've actually stopped listening to music because it lowers focus) or I don't know, eat/browse while playing. Of course I don't mind difficult games, which is why I might sometimes play 3v3 or something.

What I don't want to do in a casual play session is stare wide-eyed at the screen, twitching whenever something moves. Or having to keep your ears open to hear those sound cues for things like supers. Or be frustrated because of lag.
 

Daemul

Member
Honestly I'm not even sure whether P2P servers can even be blamed for the ridiculous lag in PvP. I've played other shooters who used P2P but the lag was nowhere near as bad as it was in Destiny. I have no idea what the fuck is going on with this games netcode, shit is broken.
 
I don't understand it either, every MP shooter has lopsided games, we've all been on the backend of a hiding and we've all given out hidings, that's just life. Why Bungie feel compelled to change this when no one else bothers to is beyond me. Do they think loads of people quit if they get destroyed in matches? If that was even remotely the case then MP shooters would have died out long ago.

Its meadling for the sake of it. No more, no less. I had games were the mercy rule applied to my team. The same the other way around. I get it. If you are new to crucible, it's not nice to be on the receiving end of a whooping, but hey, shit happens. Next match , or not on a distant future, it will be your time to stomp on someone else.

What I dont get, it's the idea of separating teams when you win (and sometimes not by that much). You get a team with competent players. Every one puls their weight (capture and hold zones, etc), win = separate team. I, mean, wtf?

I'm sure that there are more important problems to sort on the game world.
 

Tri4

Member
Cool cool. Adding you now.

You jumping in, Tri?
Nah, not today.. Highwind. I'll jump in on the next full HM run or something but people are expecting to do the challenge and leave and I'll only get in the way

Plus its practically midnight, you know I don't like missing my bedtime.
 

E92 M3

Member
It's not just sweats vs stomps. There's a middle ground where a game isn't too hard or too easy which is where I want it, and where it was before the matchmaking got fucked. It's fine if you like sweats though, but its not my favourite.

To me, destiny is a casual shooter. Like when I come home from college all tired, I wanna fit a couple of games in for fun. I want to be able to listen to music while playing (I've actually stopped listening to music because it lowers focus) or I don't know, eat/browse while playing. Of course I don't mind difficult games, which is why I might sometimes play 3v3 or something.

What I don't want to do in a casual play session is stare wide-eyed at the screen, twitching whenever something moves. Or having to keep your ears open to hear those sound cues for things like supers. Or be frustrated because of lag.

I agree. The crucible used to be my relaxing shooter. Seems like Black Ops 3 is the next best thing for a relaxing shooter without worrying about always sweeating.
 

Beagles329

Neo Member
I'm looking for a little help with the last mission for the ToM. I'm sitting at the last boss after dying too many times trying to do it solo. Any help would be appreciated!

PSN:Beagles329
 
I'm certain it's not the case but what if Bungle is testing all ways so that they get pvp right for Destiny 2?.

There's nothing to test when online games have figured out the correct solution years ago. The case is closed, Bungie can stop investigating. Lag already confessed to the murder of fun. Just put it in jail already for crying out loud.
 

Zel3

Member
Ok GAF so I've been playing Crucible trying to level up my faction rep. I'm not sure but I feel like PVP is pretty bad right.. Like no one actually enjoys this shit and we're all playing it because of legendary marks/reputation.
 
Ok GAF so I've been playing Crucible trying to level up my faction rep. I'm not sure but I feel like PVP is pretty bad right.. Like no one actually enjoys this shit and we're all playing it because of legendary marks/reputation.

its only fun with a group of friends

as a solo experience its miserable

i guess thats kind of a microcosm of destiny as a whole
 

stay gold

Member
Ok GAF so I've been playing Crucible trying to level up my faction rep. I'm not sure but I feel like PVP is pretty bad right.. Like no one actually enjoys this shit and we're all playing it because of legendary marks/reputation.

Crucible was super enjoyable, there's no other shooter I'd rather play than HoW era Destiny. But Bungie are making it pretty miserable right now, yeah.

There's nothing else like it though. I'm not a CoD guy myself, so I continue to play.
 

Zel3

Member
The best times I've had so far are in a game mode with no radar. It was a little more tactical than the Conspiracy Theory Shoulder Charge fest it's been so far.
 

Mindlog

Member
Yes there is. Connection based MM.

It's not an either/or situation, sweats or stomps. That "choice" doesn't exist. It's a choice between "the game works" and "the game is broken." Latency determines the quality of the experience. Lopsided games will always happen. Like Triple said in his video, that's the nature of competition. Trials (or self-made sweaty MM) was supposed to be where you went to choose sweaty competition. As Triple also said, that choice has been removed. It's literally impossible to choose the "relaxed" PvP experience they had previously told us we were supposed to expect from Crucible.

Shooting for this imaginary "equal skill matches" or ~50% wins is a total fallacy in a P2P game with notoriously bad netcode. The sooner people in the community understand this reality, the sooner (hopefully!) Bungie might finally admit they don't always know best and actually fix the problem. Right now they seem as out of touch on this issue as they've ever been with their game.
I wonder what effect that has had on long term MM.
They posted charts of how games were ending and why they implemented the more aggressive apple rules. I wonder if they'd be willing to divulge more data. Were matches becoming more lopsided and having an effect on overall player counts?

Makes me yearn for the days of proper PC 'server browser' based games. Finding a server with good admins was the best. Obvious games would be ended quickly and the teams rebalanced. Also makes me wish challenge ladders were still a thing. Memories. Back when the match of the week would be shoutcasted.

Bungie is out of touch because custom games should have been included since the Alpha. I don't believe trying to improve SBMM is a bad thing on its own and I do believe its an either or problem vs latency. I get it though. Latency aside many people would still prefer the easy route to guaranteed wins. Iron Banner trains are a thing for a reason. For my entertainment the first day of SBMM in Trials was pretty great. There were a lot of solid teams facing off against each other. Then pretty much everyone quit and watching teams coast to the lighthouse is boring. Then when the SBMM became widespread watching sweaties became boring because it took forever for them to matchup with the loophole narrowed.
It's not just sweats vs stomps. There's a middle ground where a game isn't too hard or too easy which is where I want it, and where it was before the matchmaking got fucked.
Close games are the middle ground. Anything else is a consistent win expectency.

All that said keep in mind I quit playing Crucible a long time ago so grain of salt all of my thoughts. Almost all the recent Crucible activity I had was someone else playing with my characters.
They somehow gave me 100k in additional direct glimmer sources (banners, beads, whatnots) so thank you for that mysterious stranger :]
What I dont get, it's the idea of separating teams when you win (and sometimes not by that much). You get a team with competent players. Every one puls their weight (capture and hold zones, etc), win = separate team. I, mean, wtf?
Bungie should (I would) have gone in the opposite direction.
When a random team gets a dominating win I would search for another recent random team with a dominating win and pair them up with extra rewards on the line.

I would call it a Showdown match.
Shax would be super jacked.
Both teams would be doing a Maori Haka upon entering the map.
 

todd360

Member
Why do you have a hearth, Todd? Central heating is the future.

A wood burner compliments central heating my fair maiden. *tips fedora*

I think lag deserves a fair trial.

Pnmah7x.gif
 

todd360

Member
But the heating bill...

Lol. I was thinking about playing more trials, but I'm not sure I want to look for two more people which is harder than getting to mercury.
 

Nicodemic

Member
But the heating bill...

Lol. I was thinking about playing more trials, but I'm not sure I want to look for two more people which is harder than getting to mercury.

I can play for bounties if you want but i'm terrible at pvp so don't expect any miracles.

PSN: Nicodemic
 
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