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[mehrmantrout]

I won't cross post it, since it's a huge post, but I said my piece about the whole grab bag/chroma/amor for sale thing here on the Gaming thread.

It's something that only bugged me a little bit, and then I slept on it and woke up to realize how awful it really is. I'm really bummed about the direction the game is going now.

Welcome aboard Ghaleon. With the power of a mod behind us our march to victory will be assured

 

[Homeboyd]

I won't cross post it, since it's a huge post, but I said my piece about the whole grab bag/chroma/amor for sale thing here on the Gaming thread.

It's something that only bugged me a little bit, and then I slept on it and woke up to realize how awful it really is. I'm really bummed about the direction the game is going now.

Check this thread over on reddit as well (some good comments in there): https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4cn7px/id_like_to_address_microtransactions/

OP:

As we know silver exists in the game. And we also know that Activision is the publisher of this game and BO3. I know what you're thinking.

"Oh boy here we go again with the cry babies."

But I implore you to not downvote this post on sight (Edit: Post has been up for 30 seconds. 2 downvotes) and at least think a little about what I'm saying. Recently /r/blackops3 and the community in general has been fired up about the supply drops in the game. And they have been for months. Here's a summary.

11/6/15 - Game launched. A supply drop system is in the game using exclusively cryptokeys - a currency obtained by completing multiplayer matches - to open supply drops for a chance at camos, reticles, calling cards, specialist themes (the clothes your player wears, cosmetic), taunts, gestures you get the idea. All strictly cosmetic items.

12/15/15 - A patch is released, with three new weapons available in supply drops. Along with other things in there (All for free). These weapons are essentially reskins of the combat knife, the melee weapon in the game. They practically don't alter the game. These melee weapons are also extremely rare, estimated to be a 0.8% chance or lower. Community was cool with it. CoD points are also introduced. A currency you buy with real money to open supply drops with.

2/9/16 - New patch (Sidenote these aren't the only patches that take place, only the ones relating to what I'm talking about). This time with 5 new weapons. Two of them are melee, reskins. But three of them are bullet firing weapons. This is where it starts. Shit gets serious and public outcry commences.

3/22/16 - Despite the obvious outlash, 5 new weapons are added with 2 of them being bullet weapons. The sub doesn't like it at all. Even big youtubers are against it.

"What's your point? This is /r/DestinyTheGame not /r/blackops3 crybaby."

Point is, Activision is the same publisher. And there is heavy evidence that suggests that Treyarch did not want to add in these microtransactions but Activision made them (Can't find the posts at this time). BO3 can be used to predict what will happen to Destiny. The similarities cannot be ignored.

- Release microransactions already a good way into the game. Silver anybody?

- Microtransactions can only get cosmetic items.

- Slowly introduce game altering items into game. But you can get them without paying!

I mean hell, this sterling treasure thing is shockingly similar to supply drops they even have an opening animation when they know that wasn't required. We got truly only cosmetic things at first. Emotes, masks. Then SRL came with the record book. Whatever. Now sterling treasure which you can technically get without paying. They could have easily made that gear 280 or something when you think about. The 1:1 infusion was probably influenced by the sterling treasure as well. What I'm trying to say is, show your distaste before it's too late. Some people are okay with microtransactions and even though I disagree, it's your opinion. Just don't wait until Destiny 2 comes out with microtransactions being a core part of the game to jump on the bandwagon that will ultimately do nothing because it's too late. The "Before all the cod points hate" post was exactly how this sub was when silver was introduced. There were also posts like this one when silver was announced, but the majority didn't listen. I'd hate to see the prophecy come true. Put a frog near boiling water and it'll hop right out. But put him in nice cool water and slowly turn up the heat...

A comment:

You're getting downvoted and I probably will too, but I completely agree with you. A lot of people are defending Bungie because Silver currently can't buy anything that gives you an edge, aka it isn't "pay to win". But when the game first came out there was no Silver at all, we paid for the game and got everything in one nice package. Then Silver was added and we got cosmetic emotes. It wasn't game-breaking at all but it was the first step on the road of microtransactions. The next baby step brought us Sparrows - while they don't help in PvP scenarios, it still allowed you to get instant access to the top-tier Sparrows in the game rather than having to earn them.

Now we're able to buy armour as well. Yes, it's only 3 Light which doesn't help at all. But, it's another baby step. They've gone from having no microtransactions at all to now selling bottom-tier gear. They've done it slowly enough that the majority of players have let it slide - had they jumped straight from no microtransactions to these new Sterling Treasure packages, I reckon there would have been much more chatter about it.

They just have to keep edging us in to the next level. I can foresee us buying vendor-tier gear with Silver in the future if we don't do something about now.

For some reason, gaming side only views these as cosmetics... when this game has actually had real cosmetics in it. Items with no light level, infusion possibilities, no armor stats,etc. This has all of those which you can buy for real money. I actually don't care much either way. Best way to describe their thinking is like this guy did in that thread above:

Just some business insight for you.
This is a strategy business's use to profit maximize. I know we all realize this with commonsense, but here's the fundamentals.
The problem:
You own a stadium. You have 2 seats in said stadium.
Person A is willing to pay $500 for a seat.
Person B is willing to pay $1000 a seat.
If you charge $500, both seats will sell - $1000 If you chrge $1000, one seat will sell - $1000.
Neither of these results are good, because you could have potentially received $1500 from the sale.
This is a problem facing airlines, stadiums and virtually everything else.
Activision sees that some customers will only play the base game $60. Activision also knows that some customers are willing to pay more than $60.
Enter silver. This allows players to pay to minunun for the base and gives them the ability to pay more if they 'want' to.
I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's bad.
I'm saying OP is probably right that this will without question continue to escalate.
Cheers

I'd probably do the same if I was them, but this isn't simply cosmetic stuff being sold for real money.

 

[E92 M3]

I won't cross post it, since it's a huge post, but I said my piece about the whole grab bag/chroma/amor for sale thing here on the Gaming thread.

It's something that only bugged me a little bit, and then I slept on it and woke up to realize how awful it really is. I'm really bummed about the direction the game is going now.

I agree, everything reminds me of the boiling frog anecdote. Bungie are seeing how much the community is allowing them to get away with this stuff and they obfuscate the details with pleasant news.

1:1 infusion should have been there from the start.

 

[Lee]

I probably spent $25 on silver chasing the blue skull mask.

I personally won't make that mistake/investment again, but it seems like there is no need to this time around. You will get every single item just through normal play within a month or two. That blue skull mask, you had your one free chance of getting it, but then you had to gamble with silver because there was no other way.

Now if only they made masks level 3 and infuseable.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Okay, so, with yesterday's "New Loot to Earn" stream being mostly "New Loot to Buy", I have to ask:

WTF is Destiny?

Seriously.

It's a shooter, with loot, but loot rarely drops. New April loot is not something that even drops, it's something that comes via schedules and purchases, just like a gross F2P iOS game.

It's a shooter, not a subscription-based MMO, but it has such aggressive psychological hooks that create a persistent need to login, even when content can't possibly match that need.

It's a shooter, but it has only enough gear and power levels to hinder you, not to make you unique or interesting. That's all Light Level is. It's not power, it's a penalty til you reach the cap.

It's a shooter, with a massive # of missions and activities, but with only 5% of it offering any incentive or reward for end-game players, so the game actually feels tiny.

It's a shooter, with RPG elements, but the RPG elements are so thin that subclasses and gear don't offer meaningful diversification and builds.

It's shooter, where the developers are terrified of player progress, so it has more grind than any other game. Where Bungie nerfed XP gain for Year 2 and then introduced MTX purchasable XP boosts. RNG on top of RNG, but with no mitigation either from re-rolling or increased drop rate. With 80,000 currencies. With nerfed drop rates for weapon & armor parts, "to make them special."

It's a shooter, with PvE and PvP, but where the balancing is done almost exclusively to favor PvP. Despite the fact that Bungie is one of the only game devs who can make single player missions worth a damn.

WTF is this game?

It's not now what I expected or wanted. It's certainly not the game I expected from Bungie. A company that resisted for so long the trends of XP and unlocks and other gross industry practices. A company that really understood and appreciated their players. I have no idea what Destiny is or who Bungie is.

 

[Kor of Memory]

So I just realized that the Sterling items have no stats on the gear just like the SRL stuff.

No INT, DSC, or STR.

Thus, they're cosmetic and for fun equipment only. You'll never see someone in Trials legitimately trying to get to Mercury wearing that gear, as no one is going to sacrifice decreased cooldowns just to look cool.


I feel like this one fact has dismantled almost this entire argument.

 

[Rhaegar]

So I just realized that the Sterling items have no stats on the gear just like the SRL stuff.

No INT, DSC, or STR.

Thus, they're cosmetic and for fun equipment only. You'll never see someone in Trials legitimately trying to get to Mercury wearing that gear, as no one is going to sacrifice decreased cooldowns just to look cool.


I feel like this one fact has dismantled almost this entire argument.

The one they infused up yesterday got the stats of the dismantled weapon. Argument validated.

 

[E92 M3]

So I just realized that the Sterling items have no stats on the gear just like the SRL stuff.

No INT, DSC, or STR.

Thus, they're cosmetic and for fun equipment only. You'll never see someone in Trials legitimately trying to get to Mercury wearing that gear, as no one is going to sacrifice decreased cooldowns just to look cool.


I feel like this one fact has dismantled almost this entire argument.

They changed the infusion system precisely for this.

 

[mehrmantrout]

So I just realized that the Sterling items have no stats on the gear just like the SRL stuff.

No INT, DSC, or STR.

Thus, they're cosmetic and for fun equipment only. You'll never see someone in Trials legitimately trying to get to Mercury wearing that gear, as no one is going to sacrifice decreased cooldowns just to look cool.


I feel like this one fact has dismantled almost this entire argument.

3 light wouldn't have any Int/disc/str values. The same gear will have by the time you've infused it to 335, same way the values creep up now

 

[Kalamari]

It's a Shooter-buy-loot-er.

 

[Kor of Memory]

The one they infused up yesterday got the stats of the dismantled weapon. Argument validated.

Which stats? Light Level? Or INT, DSC, STR?

Any chance you have a screen grab?

 

[FyreWulff]

They're dangerously on the line. In this case, the armor is specifically in service to the chroma MT/drops - I guess instead of retrofitting all armor in the game to accept Chroma. It's a little less "selling armor" to me than "giving you the thing the chroma goes into". You still have to actually play the game to make it useful.

Not really liking it this line pushing and I really miss when Destiny was about the only game that didn't hawk shit at me upon logging in, though.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Which stats? Light Level? Or INT, DSC, STR?

Any chance you have a screen grab?

Here's the archived stream.

32:49. The LL 3 helmet with 0 stats gets INT/DISC of +45/+37 after infusion. (Which is not what the destroyed gear had, btw)

 

[Kor of Memory]

The one they infused up yesterday got the stats of the dismantled weapon. Argument validated.

They changed the infusion system precisely for this.

3 light wouldn't have any Int/disc/str values. The same gear will have by the time you've infused it to 335, same way the values creep up now

Well fuck... I tried.

 

[Mindlog]

So I just realized that the Sterling items have no stats on the gear just like the SRL stuff.

No INT, DSC, or STR.

Thus, they're cosmetic and for fun equipment only. You'll never see someone in Trials legitimately trying to get to Mercury wearing that gear, as no one is going to sacrifice decreased cooldowns just to look cool.


I feel like this one fact has dismantled almost this entire argument.

Is that a design decision or a byproduct of being a 3LL item? Everything else gains attribute points when its infused. I'd be pretty surprised if Bungie made the effort to code an exception into that engine. *edit* I'm slow. Had to put in my lunch order Is the end result here that reforging is back if you pay for it?

Anyone else secretly hoping that this week's update corrects an error about 100% infusion? Would be great.
In an effort to once again chase correctitude there is one small note on a comment that was made during yesterday's information flood wherein it was reported that the infusee would receive 100% of the infuser's Light level. This is not guaranteed. One would be better served by knowing that the possibility will exist where it had not before. Further, in an effort to balance this new hotness it is also possible that infusion can fail entirely. The RNG is a harsh mistress and we are all her dutiful subjects.

 

[FyreWulff]

100% infusion is here to stay. Because all the previous system did was make people fill up their inventory with the halfway point items which grinded the sharding influx to a halt.

 

[Homeboyd]

100% infusion is here to stay. Because all the previous system did was make people fill up their inventory with the halfway point items which grinded the sharding influx to a halt.

This, 1000%. The trail of gear being saved for one item to reach LL cap was awful. This is a much, much better system.

 

[Axoman]

100% infusion is here to stay. Because all the previous system did was make people fill up their inventory with the halfway point items which grinded the sharding influx to a halt.

Until the next major release and they do yet another overhaul of the light/progression systems.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Until the next major release and they do yet another overhaul of the light/progression systems.

This is essential right here. The LL system is the worst part of the game right now.

 

[Lnkn52]

Until the next major release and they do yet another overhaul of the light/progression systems.

#Always

 

[darkistheway]

Okay, so, with yesterday's "New Loot to Earn" stream being mostly "New Loot to Buy", I have to ask:

WTF is Destiny?

Seriously.

It's a shooter, with loot, but loot rarely drops. New April loot is not something that even drops, it's something that comes via schedules and purchases, just like a gross F2P iOS game.

It's a shooter, not a subscription-based MMO, but it has such aggressive psychological hooks that create a persistent need to login, even when content can't possibly match that need.

It's a shooter, but it has only enough gear and power levels to hinder you, not to make you unique or interesting. That's all Light Level is. It's not power, it's a penalty til you reach the cap.

It's a shooter, with a massive # of missions and activities, but with only 5% of it offering any incentive or reward for end-game players, so the game actually feels tiny.

It's a shooter, with RPG elements, but the RPG elements are so thin that subclasses and gear don't offer meaningful diversification and builds.

It's shooter, where the developers are terrified of player progress, so it has more grind than any other game. Where Bungie nerfed XP gain for Year 2 and then introduced MTX purchasable XP boosts. RNG on top of RNG, but with no mitigation either from re-rolling or increased drop rate. With 80,000 currencies. With nerfed drop rates for weapon & armor parts, "to make them special."

It's a shooter, with PvE and PvP, but where the balancing is done almost exclusively to favor PvP. Despite the fact that Bungie is one of the only game devs who can make single player missions worth a damn.

WTF is this game?

It's not now what I expected or wanted. It's certainly not the game I expected from Bungie. A company that resisted for so long the trends of XP and unlocks and other gross industry practices. A company that really understood and appreciated their players. I have no idea what Destiny is or who Bungie is.

Good post, as always.

Destiny is clearly changing.

In a way, I'm glad because I was addicted and I don't like being addicted.

I think Destiny is a shooter at heart that has had some experimental elements grafted on. Loot, XP, levels and now real-game MTs. None of these ever felt well-integrated into the core game.

As it stands now, I am ready to put Destiny away unless it is just for fun times with DGAF.

Hopefully Destiny 2 will see a focused Bungie deliver a well thought out, well implemented game that delivers on the promises of Year One and avoids the shitty experiments currently underway.

If things like P2W are going to happen, just bring it to the forefront so the consumer can make a clear choice rather than this underhanded process where they hope the dedicated community become whales.

 

[phen0m24]

I just want a 335 Fatebringer.

Make the old raids relevant again.
Make a sense of gear lust real, with as guaranteed a way as possible to get the items.

"Want a FB, Epilogue or VoC that you can infuse to 335? RUN THE RAIDS."

raids populate again short term, can update enemy levels later. People get powerful weapons that they actually WANT, not just some nostalgic old whatever.

I love TDYK, but that Fatebringer...

It's not like they do extra damage and NF have burns every week.... Bring back old raid gear and let me infuse it!

 

[GhaleonEB]

100% infusion is here to stay. Because all the previous system did was make people fill up their inventory with the halfway point items which grinded the sharding influx to a halt.

Yeah. This is a better system. What's frustrating is the problems were clear early on, but the change comes in tandem with the grab bag for sale, to make those items more valuable. Great change, but it shows they didn't make the change just to help the game or respond to feedback (though I think they did at least in part)...it was a part of the monetization calculus and rolled out in tandem with it.

I was going to say it's entirely plausible the F2P hooks here won't interfere with my enjoyment of the game, but the way chroma is being handled is absurdly convoluted. Should have just been another type of shader, instead it's per item consumable thing you re-roll to hope for the color you want. It also can't be earned directly, but as a chance item in a grab bag, which are throttled to three per week. And if you want to change it, you have to keep re-rolling and hope to get lucky. You can't just pick blue.

It's the first consumer unfriendly implementation of something in Destiny. I try hard to be a voice of reason but there's this big blaring klaxon of an alarm going off in my head about the implementation approach for chroma. I feel like it's a tipping point.

 

[Hawkian]

Newbie Raid of King's Fall tonight at 8:00PM Eastern Time. 2 spots remaining.

Sign-up here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1DcCXWHn5EYFKlJmPjawNCHovK8v9IrBORo3WrcPfTE8/viewform?usp=send_form

.

 

[Lnkn52]

Yeah. This is a better system. I can't help but be bothered with why they changed it, though - the problems were clear early on, but the change comes in tandem with the grab bag for sale, to make those items more valuable. Great change, but it shows they didn't make the change just to help the game or respond to feedback...the did it as part of the monetization calculus.

I was going to say it's entirely plausible the F2P hooks here won't interfere with my enjoyment of the game, but the way chroma is being handled is absurdly convoluted. Should have just been another type of shader, instead it's per item consumable thing you re-roll to hope for the color you want.

It's the first consumer unfriendly implementation of something in Destiny. I try hard to be a voice of reason but there's this big blaring klaxon of an alarm going off in my head about the implementation approach for chroma. I feel like it's a tipping point.

They only give us 4 options but they even had to RNG that. It really is convoluted.

 

[phen0m24]

.

Hawkian Josh has his own ps4 but his Destiny character is still not high level enough - or I would sign him up



(Waves at buddy)

 

[Hawkian]

Hawkian Josh has his own ps4 but his Destiny character is still not high level enough - or I would sign him up



(Waves at buddy)

What LL is he? He friended me yesterday.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I won't cross post it, since it's a huge post, but I said my piece about the whole grab bag/chroma/amor for sale thing here on the Gaming thread.

It's something that only bugged me a little bit, and then I slept on it and woke up to realize how awful it really is. I'm really bummed about the direction the game is going now.

I had some further thoughts on it too. I'll link it as well.

I think this bit is what I want people to take away from it-

I can say without a doubt that the limitations to how many boxes you can earn was dictated by the fact that they're also selling these boxes for money. If there was no way to earn the boxes in game, I'm sure the uproar would be tremendous. It's literally locking away content behind a paywall or a weekly timer.

The worst of all, this is a bigger fuck you to Destiny players who have played it since the beginning. Those who stuck through with it since day 1. Many others and myself have spent what...$60 on the base game, $40 on the first two expansions, another $40 for TTK, we've spent atleast $140 on this game and this is the update we get? Destiny has mobile game sensibilities with a AAA price tag on it. And it's fucked up.

 

[Axoman]

I, for one, don't really care for the chroma stuff.

I am more focused on perk rolls than aesthetics, and I've never been too concerned with how my characters look outside of finding a shader I like.

I would have much preferred that the development resources that went into the chroma systems and sterling treasure stuff would have instead gone to creating new missions/strikes/pvp maps.

Unfortunately, all of our updates are just new ways to expand microtransactions disguised as new content.


It's as though the live team's charter is to come up with new ways to make money as opposed to adding more content. They might as well rename them the MTX team.

 

[E92 M3]

Until the next major release and they do yet another overhaul of the light/progression systems.

The current pattern is: introduce a shitty system in Fall, and fix it in Spring lol.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yeah. This is a better system. I can't help but be bothered with why they changed it, though - the problems were clear early on, but the change comes in tandem with the grab bag for sale, to make those items more valuable. Great change, but it shows they didn't make the change just to help the game or respond to feedback...the did it as part of the monetization calculus.

I was going to say it's entirely plausible the F2P hooks here won't interfere with my enjoyment of the game, but the way chroma is being handled is absurdly convoluted. Should have just been another type of shader, instead it's per item consumable thing you re-roll to hope for the color you want. It also can't be earned directly, but as a chance item in a grab bag, which are throttled to three per week.

It's the first consumer unfriendly implementation of something in Destiny. I try hard to be a voice of reason but there's this big blaring klaxon of an alarm going off in my head about the implementation approach for chroma. I feel like it's a tipping point.

In this case I think they just happened to deploy at the same time since it's a cumulative update that's tweaking quite a bit from what we know (and thefore all pending substantial stuff will show up at the same time)

Definitely not enjoying the harder and harder push for MTs. I mean, the free Sterling Treasure just for logging in is almost barefaced intentionally designed to make everyone log in every week to get the "dollar value" of the MT for free. It's the same crap that mobile games do - with the "log in 5 days in a row and get free premium currency!", just currently only at a per-week cadence.

 

[Tri4]

Gotta agree with ghaleon, brezy and the others on this. Call me a pessimist, but I'm 100% expecting them to start selling weapons at this rate (at 3 light, because apparently that makes it all okay according to some people). Back when it was just dumb masks and emotes, everyone was cool with it. The slippery slope was mention by a few (including me) and most people thought we were just being overly pessimistic. They'd never sell armor or weapons. But now they're selling armor, and suddenly so many people are okay with it? Because it's 3 light?

It's not just the pay to win aspect of microtransactions. Yes, they're 3 light so technically you can't "win" by buying them. But their presence alone is going to affect the game. The acquisition rate for these armors are obviously going to be very low, because they're gonna want to sell those stupid chests. This is directly affecting our loot and paying for loot in a loot-driven game is a big no for me.

This update was obviously just for the sake of selling more microtransaction crap. Being annoyed doesn't mean we're acting entitled or asking for more for free. Most of us here would pay real money for a proper update than end up with a half-assed rehash full of MTs.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I guess maybe I am totally misunderstanding this outrage, but you can't outright buy max light gear correct and you can earn the cosmetics through weekly RNG right?

What's the problem and what is anti-consumer here?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I guess maybe I am totally misunderstanding this outrage, but you can't outright buy max light gear correct and you can earn the cosmetics through weekly RNG right?

What's the problem and what is anti-consumer here?

It affects the design of the game regarding the loot and at the rate it drops. It also undermines PvE content seeing as how you do PvE for, among other things, the loot.

 

[FyreWulff]

I guess maybe I am totally misunderstanding this outrage, but you can't outright buy max light gear correct and you can earn the cosmetics through weekly RNG right?

What's the problem and what is anti-consumer here?

It is free and yes, you can't buy good armor out of the gate, but people's concern is that they went from 100% cosmetic MTs with Festival to outright useful gear in the span of 6 months.

IMO, Bungie needs to make a public and firm statement on where they're going with MTs. Because right now while I'd like to say there's no Pay2Win, they've moved the line over so much so fast that it's gotten a bit concerning.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It is free and yes, you can't buy good armor out of the gate, but people's concern is that they went from 100% cosmetic MTs with Festival to outright useful gear in the span of 6 months.

IMO, Bungie needs to make a public and firm statement on where they're going with MTs. Because right now while I'd like to say there's no Pay2Win, they've moved the line over so much so fast that it's gotten a bit concerning.

Someone mentioned(I forgot who, sorry!) that the sterling boxes outright have reputation boosts, thus you can technically pay your way to higher rep.

 

[xplicitone]

I came up with an idea.

Legendaries are obviously the most useful, since we only can equip 1 Exotic. There are TONS of rolls on Legendaries and many different ones per group (primary, special, heavy, etc.).

What they should do is give us events that give us a PACKAGE (Box) of Legendary Engrams. I'm talking about like 4-5 random legendary engrams.

Nightfalls need to be a mix of that and motes/strange coins/mats. Not just 1 THING at the end hahaha. Like great big packages. I know Hawkian touched on this way back and he was so correct.

Also, 3oC needs to die. Exotics need to be special again.

 

[E92 M3]

The problem with including gear is now Bungie has incentive to make sure the free sterling boxes aren't as profitable as the purchased ones. They want people buying this stuff, so making it harder to get in game is only natural.

Also, if they had an emote wheel, even I would buy a couple more. No emote wheel = waste of money to buy multiple emotes.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

It affects the design of the game regarding the loot and at the rate it drops. It also undermines PvE content seeing as how you do PvE for, among other things, the loot.

How? This is cosmetic armor. It looks cool, but it isn't like it can be useful if you don't go out and earn the 335 gear in the first place. I wouldn't have problems with them having special cosmetic gun re skins even as long as they required you to have the dropped gun as well to get them up to level.

You still *can* get the loot through the weekly chests even.

My Momentum helm also was paid for and could be infused, what's the difference?

 

[Homeboyd]

- Combine all currencies in the game into a single "rare" currency, used everywhere and a single "exotic" or "high level" currency, used for high-end gear (strange coins).
- Dump armor stats (int/disc/str) completely. Subclasses determine these stats.
- "Make patrols relevant again" (as well as old content) by offering incentives to earn gear useable at current end-game levels. The patrols pre-HoW racing for treasure keys was actually hilarious and a lot of (stupid) fun.
- Introduce Raid and PoE kiosks to store raid/PoE gear without keeping it in your vault
- Dump all in-game consumables
- Make exotics, exotic. ie give them upgrades that aren't so specific to a particular build they feel useless and ordinary
- Never mention the word "shards" ever again anywhere
- Get rid of the whole "ranged-LL" items completely (aka this activity can drop gear up to ___ LL)
- Balance gear separately in PvE and PvP
- Nightfalls only drop maxed LL gear if you get a gear drop
- Offer Raid progression drops so that even if you don't get that piece of gear you're looking for, you're still making progress towards getting it (ie you get a piece of a card for each CP you complete in a week, if you complete all CPs in a raid in a week, you fill the card and can turn it in to a Raid vendor for a random raid gear drop)
- Return raids to more about gear/shooting, less about "stand here, jump there, touch this while doing that"

ie make the game less about inventory management and playing only the few activities that will get you end-game loot, and more about having fun destroying things with your OP guardian in all activities which are all rewarding. Come up with ways to earn end-game gear if you always play solo. Focus on what the game does well (action/gunplay/chasing loot in yr 1) and less about grinding for minimum level requirements tacked onto a few activities.

 

[phen0m24]

What LL is he? He friended me yesterday.

Oh dude he's like 220. Still trying to level for a NF to do with Ocean hehe

 

[BreezyLimbo]

How? This is cosmetic armor. It looks cool, but it isn't like it can be useful if you don't go out and earn the 335 gear in the first place. I wouldn't have problems with them having special cosmetic gun re skins even as long as they required you to have the dropped gun as well to get them up to level.

You still *can* get the loot through the weekly chests even.

Again, when one of the primary things in Destiny is earning loot, it's undermining that by selling said loot.

You can say 'But destiny isn't about the loot!' then what the hell are ships, icons, shaders, marks, sparrows, horns, loot, all these little customization options for.

It's a disingenuous argument you're making.

 

[JohnOfMars]

No rerolling at the Gunsmith, but how about buying as armor drops from Eververse?!

 

[GhaleonEB]

I guess maybe I am totally misunderstanding this outrage, but you can't outright buy max light gear correct and you can earn the cosmetics through weekly RNG right?

What's the problem and what is anti-consumer here?

Let's take a scenario where the monetization is not a part of Destiny at all. And Bungie is adding in chroma, the new highlight shader for weapons and armor.

It would probably work much like the current shaders - they show up as drops for activities or in reward packages, via RNG. You might get a blue one, or the white one. You apply it and it works on whatever gun you have equipped, just as armor shaders do. Simple addition to the loot pool and an implementation that is similar to the other shader in the game.

Here's what they are actually doing.

Chroma is exclusive to a grab bag that has it as one of many possible items, and players are throttled to three grab bags per week. After that, they have to buy them. If you get chroma in one, it's not a universal shader, but rather a consumable item applied to one specific weapon. And you don't get to pick your color - you have to re-roll it over and over and hope it lands on the color you want (one of four), consuming glimmer to re-roll and chroma to select a color along the way.

So if you want to check out how a gun looks with all four colors, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to apply it to multiple guns, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to change the colors on a full set of armor to fit in with a new shader you got, you're going to burn a shitload of it. So it will take a ton of chroma to really make use of, there's no way to directly earn it, and if you want a chance of getting more you can pay real money.

That's why it's unfriendly to the player.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Again, when one of the primary things in Destiny is earning loot, it's undermining that by selling said loot.

You can say 'But destiny isn't about the loot!' then what the hell are ships, icons, shaders, marks, sparrows, horns, loot, all these little customization options for.

It's a disingenuous argument you're making.

I never said it isn't a loot game. The cosmetic stuff is fluff tho.

To be honest I wouldn't care if they charge for max light armor and a full kit of exotics provided it's all obtainable in game. This isn't exactly a game where other players loot really impacts your experience in a negative way.

Id probably buy it if it meant I could just play the game for fun and avoid having to farm RNG weekly at a chance of an upgrade. My time is more valuable to me than money if the price is right if it means I can avoid spending hours on putting groups together to kill oryx 3x per week for a fucking hat.

 

[Lnkn52]

Plus you only get a chance to open these chests 3 times a week. Am I playing a mobile game now?

 

[Trakan]

It is free and yes, you can't buy good armor out of the gate, but people's concern is that they went from 100% cosmetic MTs with Festival to outright useful gear in the span of 6 months.

IMO, Bungie needs to make a public and firm statement on where they're going with MTs. Because right now while I'd like to say there's no Pay2Win, they've moved the line over so much so fast that it's gotten a bit concerning.

For me, the line is static and doesn't move. Until they cross the line, these micro-transactions don't bother me. Until they're flat out selling weapons or armor with exclusive better perks or stats, I'm fine with it. That or make the random boxes only purchasable through silver and strictly unobtainable in-game.

Also, 3oC needs to die. Exotics need to be special again.

It really does. They could even remove 3oC from Xur and just have them drop from the NF. It wouldn't be as game breaking anymore.

 

[Kaiken]

Anyone want to help me finally defeat Skolas for the first time?

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Plus you only get a chance to open these chests 3 times a week. Am I playing a mobile game now?

I was trying to remain 100% positive, but I am starting to see the issues with the April update.

Everyone here has brought up some good arguments. I'm just not sure what the solution is. We here are the hardcore of the hardcore. Even if we stop playing it's pretty evident the majority of the player base eats micro transactions up.

What can we realistically do besides not play the game? It's a shame because on the one hand I want to play Destiny, but on the other hand I don't want to give Bungie the satisfaction to double down on this stuff.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I was trying to remain 100% positive, but I am starting to see the issues with the April update.

Everyone here has brought up some good arguments. I'm just not sure what the solution is. We here are the hardcore of the hardcore. Even if we stop playing it's pretty evident the majority of the player base eats micro transactions up.

What can we realistically do besides not play the game? It's a shame because on the one hand I want to play Destiny, but on the other hand I don't want to give Bungie the satisfaction to double down on this stuff.

Complain loud and clear at Bungie. Not buy microtransactions. The thing is, we can't organize something huge other than complain, email, tweet at them. We can't make people not buy their shit.

It's sad and hard. Call of Duty went down this path, and has consistently been getting worse in terms of their supply packages. Destiny seems to be heading this route. Microtransactions paying for future content, in truth seems to be paying for even more microtransactions.

I don't think we can stop it, sadly. We're going down the slope at full speed, with no signs of stopping.