• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Destiny |OT40| Killed by the Architects

GhaleonEB

Member
Plus you only get a chance to open these chests 3 times a week. Am I playing a mobile game now?

Pretty much.

Here's another approach for chroma:

It costs real money and is only sold in the Eververse store. It's a regular shader, applied to whatever you have equipped. Buy it once, it's yours. Sell it for $2 each.

I'd buy all four for my Hunter in a heartbeat. Instant $8 for Bungie.

but with the F2P hooks in the current implementation, I will never spend a dime on chroma.
 

phen0m24

Member
I came up with an idea.

Legendaries are obviously the most useful, since we only can equip 1 Exotic. There are TONS of rolls on Legendaries and many different ones per group (primary, special, heavy, etc.).

What they should do is give us events that give us a PACKAGE (Box) of Legendary Engrams. I'm talking about like 4-5 random legendary engrams.

Nightfalls need to be a mix of that and motes/strange coins/mats. Not just 1 THING at the end hahaha. Like great big packages. I know Hawkian touched on this way back and he was so correct.

Also, 3oC needs to die. Exotics need to be special again.

Agree with the big reward idea, but if it's going to be a continuation of what we have now,leave the 3oC alone.

I don't enjoy doing the Nightfalls as presently constituted. But I still have fun on Patrol. I like to hunt Kharris, Archon Rising or the big guy on Mars or whomever else. 3oC gives me something to look forward to out on patrol. PvE. It's really the same in pvp, after rounds and rounds of crap it's nice to see the yellow drop.

I would rather they make exotics better than limit my chances to get them. We're only collecting them anyway, nobody is using ALL of them. But like I said if NF drops were exponentially better, I might look there versus patrol.

Just my opinion
 

Shiv47

Member
Plus you only get a chance to open these chests 3 times a week. Am I playing a mobile game now?

Yeah, but you can only do many activities in the game now only three times a week, or once per character, that drop RNG items players want. The option to purchase more chances makes it seem more mobile like, certainly. I've said before that I've never spent a penny on in game silver, and I plan to stay true to that, as nothing they showed yesterday made me want to re-consider (aside from the Monty Python emote). They are in danger of crossing that line though, and I'll be done with the game when that happens.
 

WipedOut

Member
Clarification on this one:

In order to get the full taken "shader" look, you have to use all 4 pieces correct? So, if I want to use an exotic armor piece, does that mean 3 pieces will have the taken look and the exotic just won't (same if I only had acquired 3 of the 4 taken pieces)? Or does it turn off the taken look all together unless all 4 pieces are worn together?

The Taken armor pieces are just that: armor pieces that have the Taken appearance by default. It wasn't clear how or even if actual shaders would affect their appearance but wearing other armor wouldn't affect the appearance of the Taken armor. In your example the exotic armor just wouldn't appear Taken but the Taken armor still would.

They did specify this, You have to get the whole collection in order to have the taken look and emote. Think how it was for the full SRL gear that you got from the SRL book, The armor would light up but only if you had all the pieces on.
 

equil

Member
Clarification on this one:



They did specify this, You have to get the whole collection in order to have the taken look and emote. Think how it was for the full SRL gear that you got from the SRL book, The armor would light up but only if you had all the pieces on.

Yep, think of it as an actual set where you only get the bonus if you wear all the pieces.
 

Mindlog

Member
Do you guys think hoarding engrams will work this time since it isn't a full blown DLC?
I've hoarded exotic engrams because they can drop any exotic once they're unlocked. Other engrams might not be so lucky, but they will help earn Cryptarch rank packages.
 

Liamc723

Member
Ce42W30WAAAMR6q.jpg:large

So Destiny and The Division's updates may be on the same day!?

That would be very interesting.
 

LTWood12

Member
In a vacuum, I'd say these microtransactions in and of themselves are benign. Nothing offered gives me an advantage in pvp. None of it makes me more powerful in PvE, and thus more desirable to be in your raid group.

But we aren't in a vacuum.

The game launched in fall of 2014 w/ more problems than any of you need me to document here. But for all those problems, there were and still are so many things it did right. To name a relevant few:

  • Art Direction
  • Look, sound, and feel of gear
  • dressing up your character, using different shaders, etc

Now there are plenty of players who could give two shits about how their character looks. My good pal T-44 gives zero fucks about how his characters looks. He puts on the most powerful gear with the best stats, even if it means he looks like something from the liner notes of a Tool album. I haven't really discussed the sterling boxes with him. I imagine he'll think they're dumb, but I don't think he'll give a shit as to whether or not he gets all the different 'fashion' options

I, and a lot of you, are not those types of players. I've infused a helmet that dropped at 270 something up to 320 just because I thought it made my hunter look the coolest. Spending a ridiculous amount of marks and armor materials in the process. So when I saw the reveal for the April update, and all the cool gear the characters were wearing, I was at least happy that there would be unique new sets to earn that didn't make me look like some angsty teen notebook drawing.

But I can't earn that stuff. I'm GIVEN three free pulls of the slot machine lever per week to try and get pieces I want or don't already have. Then am given another two free pulls for auto-piloting through whatever weekly crucible mode is featured and a braindead 260 light PvE activity. Then if I really want I can pay $2.00 per play on the slots.

So yeah, it's still just cosmetic. But up to now (other than the temporary SRL gear and emotes), anyone I saw walking around the tower in game, or people in my raid group, etc; all of the coolest looks were made up of things that drop in the game. The coolest looking stuff is all things I could get from playing the game.

Now, from a design standpoint, there is an incentive on the part of the developer/publisher to save the coolest looking/most interesting stuff for microtransactions. Something rad and super rare in year one like The Fermi Solution, where you knew someone had worked their ass off earning rep for Dead Orbit, or was incredibly lucky, maybe we start to see less and less of that. It plants a seed in the minds of the playerbase that can't be unplanted. Now we will constantly be asking questions like:

"Did they change infusion because they knew it would be much less frustrating for the player, or because they wanted to make it easy to make the real-money stuff easy to max out?"

"Does this raid armor look meh because I just happen to not like the aesthetic, or is it because they actually wanted to me to want cooler looking stuff?"

Whether it is actually affecting the game design or not, they can't take back the doubt it instills in the most hardcore. Anything in the game now that is seen as grindy, or inconvenient, etc.; I'm always going to be wondering if they're making a problem so they can sell me a solution in six months. It feels the opposite of empowering.
-------

tl;dr: on the face of it microtransactions for cosmetic stuff is a non-offensive way for the game to generate revenue. But it comes with a cost, and a loss of some trust.
 

flkraven

Member
Found a couple of my posts from 4 months ago

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188409161&postcount=11367

flkraven said:
Watching people on reddit justify the $10 sparrow pack for a guaranteed helmet and class item are hilarious.

'It's only 3 light, so it's okay'

I mean, when will it end? This could very well be the beginning of the end as Destiny moves to a free-to-play model (with a retail purchase), and in just a month we've gone pretty fucking far down this slippery slope. Next up, selling raid gear with a low light level? Y2 exotics?

Then further along when they started selling boosters and people said it wasn't worth talking about:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189333503&postcount=17930

flkraven said:
See, I'm of the opposite opinion. The less we talk about it, the more it becomes 'okay', and the more they try to balance future content around it + push the envelope even further.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189337667&postcount=17956

flkraven said:
But we started with none. Then it was cosmetic only. Then it was infusible gear. Now it's fully leveled subclasses. What if the next expansion introduces a 4th subclass, but this one takes 4 times the XP to level. That isn't unfathomable, and you will see people running around minute 1 with a fully leveled sub because they paid the $30. I really don't like what this means, and where it is headed.

And finally, defeat is accepted:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189338444&postcount=17957

flkraven said:
Sometimes I feel like I must be the crazy one. It's a sorry state of affairs when people are debating the price of this booster, rather than debating it's existence in the first place


I know it doesn't matter to many people here on GAF since I mostly play Destiny on Xbox, but I haven't booted up the game in a few weeks and now I don't plan on touching it at all unless a radical change happens in the fall.
 
tl;dr: on the face of it microtransactions for cosmetic stuff is a non-offensive way for the game to generate revenue. But it comes with a cost, and a loss of some trust.

I love this post, because it shows how corrosive microtransactions are when it comes to gear, even when it doesn't have stats.

Like, this rollout is shitty because you can literally buy armor. But even if you didn't, it's shitty because cosmetic items are going beyond shaders and emotes, to things that used to be symbols of effort and focus.

not-like-this.gif


You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
 

the_id

Member
I love this post, because it shows how corrosive microtransactions are when it comes to gear, even when it doesn't have stats.

Like, this rollout is shitty because you can literally buy armor. But even if you didn't, it's shitty because cosmetic items are going beyond shaders and emotes, to things that used to be symbols of effort and focus.

not-like-this.gif


You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
I love this game and I love the community. However the direction this game is headed is something that is going to be toxic to both of them. Its a shame, the game really is being killed its developers.
 
I don't have any issues with them selling armor so people can put on a fashion show, even if they can infuse it to full level. The items are very low level initial and people will need to grind in order to get items to infuse into them anyway.

What I do have an issue with is fusion rifles. I finally got my hands on a Thesan FR4 with hand-laid stock and rangefinder and the range is unbelievable at times. I wish more fusion rifles performed closer to this. I put this quick vid together of just a few of the 70 kills I racked up with it across 12 games. I'm no Greg but this thing is legit. The range on some of these kills incredible.
 

Mindlog

Member
I don't have any issues with them selling armor so people can put on a fashion show, even if they can infuse it to full level. The items are very low level initial and people will need to grind in order to get items to infuse into them anyway.
Luckily enough items now infuse at 100% :\
Unless the boxes are fixed (unlikely) this is reforging with Silver.
 
Luckily enough items now infuse at 100% :\
Unless the boxes are fixed (unlikely) this is reforging with Silver.

I must have missed something about how this works. How is it reforging with silver? If I buy a thing and infuse it, the item I used to infuse is now gone. If that's my only 330 or whatever item I need to grind for more. Is the issue that a person can continue to buy level 3 items until they get the stat roll they want and then infuse it? I guess I'm not so hung up on getting the *perfect* roll on a thing to pay money for it...nor does it bother me if people are.
 
And you don't get to pick your color - you have to re-roll it over and over and hope it lands on the color you want (one of four), consuming chroma along the way.

So if you want to check out how a gun looks with all four colors, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to apply it to multiple guns, you're going to burn a lot of it. If you want to change the colors on a full set of armor to fit in with a new shader you got, you're going to burn a shitload of it. So it will take a ton of chroma to really make use of, there's no way to directly earn it, and if you want a chance of getting more you can pay real money.

That's why it's unfriendly to the player.

Is this right?

I thought you only consume chroma if you fill in the node?

So if I enable a red chroma node, I've spent a red chroma. But then I decided I want white trim. So I reroll. I've lost the initial red chroma that I used to activate the first node, but I don't think I'm consumer chroma as I reroll for the color I want. I'm pretty sure thats just the 100 glimmer I'm spending per reroll.
 

LTWood12

Member
Is this right?

I thought you only consume chroma if you fill in the node?

So if I enable a red chroma node, I've spent a red chroma. But then I decided I want white trim. So I reroll. I've lost the initial red chroma that I used to activate the first node, but I don't think I'm consumer chroma as I reroll for the color I want. I'm pretty sure thats just the 100 glimmer I'm spending per reroll.

You have to have Chroma currency on hand in order to be able to spend the 100 glimmer.
 

Lee

Member
I must have missed something about how this works. How is it reforging with silver? If I buy a thing and infuse it, the item I used to infuse is now gone. If that's my only 330 or whatever item I need to grind for more. Is the issue that a person can continue to buy level 3 items until they get the stat roll they want and then infuse it? I guess I'm not so hung up on getting the *perfect* roll on a thing to pay money for it...nor does it bother me if people are.

Agreed. Especially not with armor. I don't feel that armor stats, even if perfectly rolled, give any real advantage.

Just saw that the Division incursion/raid allows you to replay and earn rewards as many time as you want a week. First completion gives "better" rewards, but subsequent completions also give "good" rewards. I wonder how that would affect Destiny.
 

Mindlog

Member
Is the issue that a person can continue to buy level 3 items until they get the stat roll they want and then infuse it? I guess I'm not so hung up on getting the *perfect* roll on a thing to pay money for it...nor does it bother me if people are.
Yes that is the issue. Maybe it's not to you, but supposedly reforging was taken out of the game for some important design reasons. Now it's back, but very expensive. Why? There were some truly awful perks introduced to make reforging more difficult and they were never removed. Has anyone ever used Casket Mag on anything for any reason? This drove up the cost of reforging. This was an activity that put all of your useless materials to use. This is what kept Deej's boss from accumulating so many weapon parts. Why has it been replaced with a real money setup?

The thing is that many of these decisions were made independent of one another. However, they all come together in a bad way that should be addressed directly.

*More footnotes. The World Update stream better include a very substantial reduction to the amount of time it takes to upgrade armor or I'm going to be ignoring most of the new armor anyway.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Is this right?

I thought you only consume chroma if you fill in the node?

So if I enable a red chroma node, I've spent a red chroma. But then I decided I want white trim. So I reroll. I've lost the initial red chroma that I used to activate the first node, but I don't think I'm consumer chroma as I reroll for the color I want. I'm pretty sure thats just the 100 glimmer I'm spending per reroll.

So it costs glimmer to re-roll, but chroma to put in in place? I'm not sure I understand.

I just wish, if they wanted to monetize chroma, they made it an item for sale at Eververse. We buy it and apply it like a shader. The end. :\
 
Is this right?

I thought you only consume chroma if you fill in the node?

So if I enable a red chroma node, I've spent a red chroma. But then I decided I want white trim. So I reroll. I've lost the initial red chroma that I used to activate the first node, but I don't think I'm consumer chroma as I reroll for the color I want. I'm pretty sure thats just the 100 glimmer I'm spending per reroll.

That's the way I understand it too.
 

LTWood12

Member
Like, we had an instagram reveal of exotics that we all literally already have that they arbitrarily made irrelevant, but are making relevant again to give the appearance that they're at least doing something. But not even the ones we all want, THAT WE ALREADY HAVE! Like the bar for what I've even made acceptable as hype worthy is so low (putting higher numbers on gear I literally already have) and they won't even do that.
 
Not played in months, has anything changed since the last HM raid? Like anything that is worthwhile coming back and doing?

Having a blast levelling in The Division just now so to pull away from that i'd need something worthwhile.
 

FyreWulff

Member
So it costs glimmer to re-roll, but chroma to put in in place? I'm not sure I understand.

I just wish, if they wanted to monetize chroma, they made it an item for sale at Eververse. We buy it and apply it like a shader. The end. :\

Yeah, this is my opinion. I'd rather stuff just be directly purchasable as an unlock once, like emotes. I really do not like lottery bag style MTs at all.
 
So it costs glimmer to re-roll, but chroma to put in in place? I'm not sure I understand.

I just wish, if they wanted to monetize chroma, they made it an item for sale at Eververse. We buy it and apply it like a shader. The end. :
If you get a gun with a white chroma slot, it will require white chroma to turn on.

If you want it to have a blue chroma slot, then it will cost you 100 glimmer to re-roll.

You spend 100 glimmer per roll.

If you reroll this gun after turning the white chroma on, you will lose the white chroma you used (ie. It is a consumable).

After you get the blue slot, then it will require blue chroma to turn on.

Chroma is only used when turning on the particular color, not for rerolling.
 
Pretty much.

Here's another approach for chroma:

It costs real money and is only sold in the Eververse store. It's a regular shader, applied to whatever you have equipped. Buy it once, it's yours. Sell it for $2 each.

I'd buy all four for my Hunter in a heartbeat. Instant $8 for Bungie.

but with the F2P hooks in the current implementation, I will never spend a dime on chroma.

But the way its set up now someone will spend $200 to more than make up for you buying in that alternative universe.

Man the last page is depressing. I hadn't realized this chroma thing was this bad. Its so obviously a mechanic added to maximize profits. Nowhere on the development of this feature did they think of what's best for the player. Sigh. Im not liking where this is going, i'm not liking it at all.
 
If you get a gun with a white chroma slot, it will require white chroma to turn on.

If you want it to have a blue chroma slot, then it will cost you 100 glimmer to re-roll.

You spend 100 glimmer per roll.

If you reroll this gun after turning the white chroma on, you will lose the white chroma you used (ie. It is a consumable).

After you get the blue slot, then it will require blue chroma to turn on.

Chroma is only used when turning on the particular color, not for rerolling.

What?! That's even worse than I thought.

Star-trek%203.gif
 
What?! That's even worse than I thought.

Star-trek%203.gif

What the actual fuck. I thought breezy was overreacting a bit but this is absolutely ridiculous. I would really like to see Luke Smith comment on these new "mechanics". If he agrees with them...rip

I never thought i would miss year 1 so much. You guys remember having cool weapons like fatebringer and not having to worry about microtransactions creeping into every aspect of the game? Yeah
 

Frenden

Banned
If you get a gun with a white chroma slot, it will require white chroma to turn on.

If you want it to have a blue chroma slot, then it will cost you 100 glimmer to re-roll.

You spend 100 glimmer per roll.

If you reroll this gun after turning the white chroma on, you will lose the white chroma you used (ie. It is a consumable).

After you get the blue slot, then it will require blue chroma to turn on.

Chroma is only used when turning on the particular color, not for rerolling.

This is crazy.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
If you get a gun with a white chroma slot, it will require white chroma to turn on.

If you want it to have a blue chroma slot, then it will cost you 100 glimmer to re-roll.

You spend 100 glimmer per roll.

If you reroll this gun after turning the white chroma on, you will lose the white chroma you used (ie. It is a consumable).

After you get the blue slot, then it will require blue chroma to turn on.

Chroma is only used when turning on the particular color, not for rerolling.

Thanks for clarifying. While different, and less chroma-hungry, it's not much better but somehow even more complex. So let's say I want to see what a gun looks like with each of the four colors. It will cost me however much glimmer to successfully roll each slot (say, 800), plus four chroma.

Thinking this through, if I do manage to get enough chroma, chroma-compatable armor, and glimmer to get a set of three guns (in each slot) and one set of armor the way I want it, but then get a great new shader that would work better with say, blue rather than the red chroma I set...oof. You have to 1) re-roll every item individually, then 2) burn another chroma on each one. Probably looking at a few hundred to a few thousand glimmer and however many chroma per item.

But there's no way to earn chroma directly, just the three boxes each week, or Eververse.

Why. Why why why.

They are whale fishing, and I want out of this ocean. :(
 
What?! That's even worse than I thought.

Star-trek%203.gif
It's pretty clearly meant to encourage whale behaviour. Two sets of armor per class means a lot of chroma slots.

If you want all blue then you'll need a lot of blue chroma, and the quickest way will be by spending real money.

I'm pretty sure I saw chroma slots on all the returning Year One guns so that means even more chroma.

It is straight up cash grab.
 
Top Bottom