Support NeoGAF

[Dez_]

TFW your team of randoms all decide to rush B at the start of the match. It's beautiful.

Ha ha, I had one of those moments. Felt great to see everyone have the same idea in mind, but then no one went back and actually captured A, so the enemy ended up with A and C.

I only played a few IB matches, and it actually went pretty well this time. Not totally frustrating, though remind me to not use auto rifles in Bannerfall.

 

[Pandora012]

I'm so cool, I'm a warlock that can shotgun melee firebolt.

Facing 2 of them is atrocious on pantheon.

#salty

I'm done with this game this weekend. Pantheon, Asylum, Widow's Court, and Burning Shrine are all Trash. Rusted Lands is the only decent one. I'm now with Ape on this rotating garbage. When 4/5 maps are bad, it sucks.

I'll be back around Wednesday during twitch reveal. I can't stand this game anymore.

You were so excited on Friday.

 

[xplicitone]

You were so excited on Friday.

I know, sad days.

I was even excited yesterday but today put me over the edge.

I would have ended on good terms had I had 9 passage coins but nope.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Anyone for a nightfall on ps4? or a few trials rounds to finish bounties?

 

[xplicitone]

Like look at this horsecrap. He was even burning with the animation and the burning suddenly disappeared (watch until the teleport at the end):

The highlight of my day was this:

https://youtu.be/TzX_REzs1EY

 

[Trakan]

The "damage referee" was a buzzword that ended up doing nothing to benefit the game. Bungie basically lied to everyone's face and haven't mentioned it since its inception.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Does anyone else enjoy competitive Starcraft 2? I'm terrible at it, and have given up trying to compete, but I love the scene. I watch a lot of matches still and found this great but about tilt (which for those not in the know, is about getting frustrated, doing worse, frustrated, worse repeat.) I think it's very applicable to Destiny:

I think it's helpful to set longer term goals for your play to help with tilt, and focusing on those goals rather than winning the current game you played. For example your goal could be to stay under X minerals for Y amount of minutes, or executing a certain strategy that requires you to be able to get out exactly X amount of units and move them to spot Y by time Z.

If you through this can change your mindset to playing to improve rather than playing to win, the amount of tilting you do will most likely be reduced (not completely though). With practice you should hopefully get in the mindset that losing is the best way to learn to get better, meaning that there are positive aspects to both winning and losing rather than one being a good experience and one being a bad experience.​

Now obviously, that doesn't work when the game you're playing is busted with red bars teleporting and not taking damage, X. But, that red bar didn't kill you, X. Pushing into a position where you got shot from two sides did.

Avoiding tilt is a lot about making the game internal rather than external. It doesn't matter if they used fuckin' Thorn or had a red bar. Focus on your play. There's always a way to improve. Or to take the play you did well there and apply it elsewhere.

 

[chur]

Go watch Luminosity's stream to see me get wrecked.


20130 to 5495. We got slaughtered.

 

[xplicitone]

Does anyone else enjoy competitive Starcraft 2? I'm terrible at it, and have given up trying to compete, but I love the scene. I watch a lot of matches still and found this great but about tilt (which for those not in the know, is about getting frustrated, doing worse, frustrated, worse repeat.) I think it's very applicable to Destiny:

I think it's helpful to set longer term goals for your play to help with tilt, and focusing on those goals rather than winning the current game you played. For example your goal could be to stay under X minerals for Y amount of minutes, or executing a certain strategy that requires you to be able to get out exactly X amount of units and move them to spot Y by time Z.

If you through this can change your mindset to playing to improve rather than playing to win, the amount of tilting you do will most likely be reduced (not completely though). With practice you should hopefully get in the mindset that losing is the best way to learn to get better, meaning that there are positive aspects to both winning and losing rather than one being a good experience and one being a bad experience.​

Now obviously, that doesn't work when the game you're playing is busted with red bars teleporting and not taking damage, X.

Avoiding tilt is a lot about making the game internal rather than external. It doesn't matter if they used fuckin' Thorn or had a red bar. Focus on your play. There's always a way to improve. Or to take the play you did well there and apply it elsewhere.

One of my favorite games of all time was Command d Conquer Generals and Zero Hour Expansion. I played probably 1,500 hours. I was really good at it. Now I could barely beat the AI haha. I need to practice it again. I have SC2 and the first expansion. I should try that again.

 

[xplicitone]

Churmom won a 1v1 versus Lumi, and also traded with him on golden guns. Chur also had AEGabriel on his team but Gabe stayed idle since he didn't want to go against Lumi, murdaro and anbu.

Got the trade on screenshot and chur holding it down for his team even while short

Lumi just matched up against ibelazzy now on IB haha

 

[chur]

I watch him play all the time but it's a whole nother thing to experience it. Couldn't isolate any of them. They always had a teammate around to help. It was great lol.

 

[the_id]

I watch him play all the time but it's a whole nother thing to experience it. Couldn't isolate any of them. They always had a teammate around to help. It was great lol.

Make chur fireteam leader if you want sweats.

 

[Spades]

Do you guys think KF CM will be guaranteeing 330/335 loot or not after the update?

 

[mehrmantrout]

Do you guys think KF CM will be guaranteeing 330/335 loot or not after the update?

I should imagine it will be. Golgoroth should be up next week, so will farm that x3 for some sweet 330 loot and artefacts

 

[WeTeHa]

I should imagine it will be. Golgoroth should be up next week, so will farm that x3 for some sweet 330 loot and artefacts

Yeah, same here. I plan on running 3 full KF HM runs to hopefully get more loot

Spoiler

if I have the time and can find people for 3 runs

Though I'm probably gonna wait until they release the hotfix so KF can drop up to 335, and hopefully guaranteed 335 for challenge mode.


Btw: Is the amount of INT/DISC/STR it takes (i.e. currently 300, 60 per tier) dependent on your lightlevel or on your level? I remember playing through the game and at low levels significantly less stats were required for the tiers. If it is dependent on the level and not light level, we may actually be able to hit 5/5/1

 

[Darknyss09]

Yeah, same here. I plan on running 3 full KF HM runs to hopefully get more loot

Spoiler

if I have the time and can find people for 3 runs

Btw: Is the amount of INT/DISC/STR it takes (i.e. currently 300, 60 per tier) dependent on your lightlevel or on your level? I remember playing through the game and at low levels significantly less stats were required for the tiers. If it is dependent on the level and not light level, we may actually be able to hit 5/5/1

You can hit 5/5/1 now with good rolls.

But that is an interesting question. It would be nice if the tiers stay the same so we get a little extra power boost. (Maybe 5/5/2?)

 

[Marvel]

I'm looking forward to the April update very much.

 

[WeTeHa]

You can hit 5/5/1 now with good rolls.

But that is an interesting question. It would be nice if the tiers stay the same so we get a little extra power boost. (Maybe 5/5/2?)

Yeah, I know 5/5/1 technically is possible now (I think I'm quite close on one of my characters actually), but so few people are able to hit it right now. But if the tiers stay the same it should be way easier for most people to hit 5/5/1 with a little effort and luck. And the hardcore could possibly hit 5/5/2.

 

[DrDrizzay101]

Like look at this horsecrap. He was even burning with the animation and the burning suddenly disappeared (watch until the teleport at the end):

You threw the grenade too far to the right so when the firebolt tried to tag him it had to go through the edge of wall. If a firebolt passes through geometry it won't actually do damage even if it looks like it should. Some things like the burn effect are generated locally but when it actually goes through the p2p connection to connect the dots btwn enemy and firebolt it realizes the geometry was blocking it, if that makes sense.

 

[X-Frame]

What is Shadestep glitching?

I've seen it thrown around a few times but can't say I've experienced it.

 

[DrDrizzay101]

What is Shadestep glitching?

I've seen it thrown around a few times but can't say I've experienced it.

During shadestep you can pull out your ghost then quickly jump or sprint. On your screen it lets you start shooting immediately but on other players' screens you will still be in the SS animation. Makes players end up doing this weird bouncing around nonsense that's really hard to track and they can shoot you when it seems impossible. Basically it's cheap as hell and should be patched asap.

 

[Kor of Memory]

The "damage referee" was a buzzword that ended up doing nothing to benefit the game. Bungie basically lied to everyone's face and haven't mentioned it since its inception.

Oh it did something.

It convinced one of my friends to never play Destiny again.

See, they don't have the best connections in the world. They aren't bad by any means, but they aren't amazing.

When the Damage Ref came out, they were having a hard time learning from their mistakes. Constantly thinking to themselves, 'Did I screw up? Or is the Damage Ref throwing the other guy the win?'

Not being able to answer that question was too frustrating, so they just stopped playing Destiny entirely.

It sucks because he was the friend I had that was closest to my skill level, and thus we could actually enjoy the game together. We went to Mercury 10 or 11 weekends during House of Wolves.

Now, though. I don't think I'll ever be able to convince him to come back.

 

[X-Frame]

During shadestep you can pull out your ghost then quickly jump or sprint. On your screen it lets you start shooting immediately but on other players' screens you will still be in the SS animation. Makes players end up doing this weird bouncing around nonsense that's really hard to track and they can shoot you when it seems impossible. Basically it's cheap as hell and should be patched asap.

Thanks Drizz, okay then maybe I did experience that a few times recently.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

After all this time

I still don't know what the fuck the damage referee is

Someone explain it to me

I've played PvP since it 'came out', but I haven't noticed shit

 

[Trakan]

Oh it did something.

It convinced one of my friends to never play Destiny again.

See, they don't have the best connections in the world. They aren't bad by any means, but they aren't amazing.

When the Damage Ref came out, they were having a hard time learning from their mistakes. Constantly thinking to themselves, 'Did I screw up? Or is the Damage Ref throwing the other guy the win?'

Not being able to answer that question was too frustrating, so they just stopped playing Destiny entirely.

It sucks because he was the friend I had that was closest to my skill level, and thus we could actually enjoy the game together. We went to Mercury 10 or 11 weekends during House of Wolves.

Now, though. I don't think I'll ever be able to convince him to come back.

Well he can rest easy knowing that it wasn't the damage ref. Red bars still consistently top leaderboards.

 

[xplicitone]

Melee registration has never been this bad before. I think they did implement Damage Referee and it caused melee reg to be really screwy now.

You threw the grenade too far to the right so when the firebolt tried to tag him it had to go through the edge of wall. If a firebolt passes through geometry it won't actually do damage even if it looks like it should. Some things like the burn effect are generated locally but when it actually goes through the p2p connection to connect the dots btwn enemy and firebolt it realizes the geometry was blocking it, if that makes sense.

Yea that makes sense. Playing against yellow bars and 1 red bar for 5+ consecutive matches gets old so fast. I always wonder how it looks on their end.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

After all this time

I still don't know what the fuck the damage referee is

Someone explain it to me

I've played PvP since it 'came out', but I haven't noticed shit

Basically what it does is that it makes all the red bars appear as green bars.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Basically what ti does is that it makes all the red bars appear as green bars.

So its a literal placebo pill

Lol

 

[maomaoIYP]

Say what you want about damage referee, but it makes an enormous difference in trials.

 

[Trakan]

Say what you want about damage referee, but it makes an enormous difference in trials.

How so? xplicit just posted a gif not too far back that showed the advantages of the red bar in Trials.

 

[MagnetoWasRight]

Did I miss the talk of the Zen Meteor PlayStation exclusive sniper rifle? I don't see it on Reddit: http://www.playstationtrophies.org/...-New-PlayStation-Exclusive-Exotic-Weapon.html

 

[xplicitone]

Say what you want about damage referee, but it makes an enormous difference in trials.

Since they implemented that, the amount of melees that doesn't register when it should more than doubled. Same goes with blade dancer detection. Anything up close now. Laggers still win.

 

[xplicitone]

They don't need damage referee. They just need dedicated servers to fix networking issues. Obviously the population is currently small so it doesn't warrant it but Destiny 2.... I can hope.

 

[JohnOfMars]

What little fun I did have solo queuing in the Crucible over the weekend was with my Chaperone.

I love this gun. I was ostensibly working on finishing my Weapons Master Quest by getting 6+ Scout Rifle kills, but I couldn't stop running riot.

Went on 13 kill spree and Shaxx gleefully bellowed "With 10 more like you, I could end war!"

Goddamn, I love Shaxx. I'm so glad they gave him more interaction in Year 2.

The Day of Defender Mars in Trials is Nigh Upon Us!

 

[maomaoIYP]

How so? xplicit just posted a gif not too far back that showed the advantages of the red bar in Trials.

Since they implemented that, the amount of melees that doesn't register when it should more than doubled. Same goes with blade dancer detection. Anything up close now. Laggers still win.

I'm always a yellow when I play with gaffers, my snipes don't register half the time. It's a world of difference when I play in a game where I'm a green bar. It's been much more noticeable since damage referee was implemented.

 

[FyreWulff]

They don't need damage referee. They just need dedicated servers to fix networking issues. Obviously the population is currently small so it doesn't warrant it but Destiny 2.... I can hope.

Dedis don't fix that issue since they just move the host to different location. I mean, I'd like them.. but they don't address that issue. They mostly just make the lag consistent.

 

[Trakan]

Do I have rose tinted glasses or does everyone pretty much agree that the connections in this game were pretty damn good from launch through HoW? I mean, you'd have a red bar in Trials here and there, but for the most part lag wasn't a problem. At least not in 3v3 which is where I spent most of my time.

I don't get why they don't go back to it. The "data" they love so much has to show how much worse connections are now, not to mention the community feedback.

 

[LTWood12]

Kadey I actually tried to join on your invite last night but then you were already full

Sorry I couldn't ever stick around for a train.

 

[funcojoe]

Anyone down for some three of coins engram runs later? Run strikes and pop each third strike? I know it' isn't exactly super fun but you end up getting more exotics with less three of coins used. Then save em for the spring update and hope for the best

 

[funcojoe]

Do I have rose tinted glasses or does everyone pretty much agree that the connections in this game were pretty damn good from launch through HoW? I mean, you'd have a red bar in Trials here and there, but for the most part lag wasn't a problem. At least not in 3v3 which is where I spent most of my time.

I don't get why they don't go back to it. The "data" they love so much has to show how much worse connections are now, not to mention the community feedback.

You have to remember the population was so much larger then, it's a wasteland now and they match you with whoever you can get.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Do I have rose tinted glasses or does everyone pretty much agree that the connections in this game were pretty damn good from launch through HoW? I mean, you'd have a red bar in Trials here and there, but for the most part lag wasn't a problem. At least not in 3v3 which is where I spent most of my time.

I don't get why they don't go back to it. The "data" they love so much has to show how much worse connections are now, not to mention the community feedback.

Hard to say.

Chances are because of the average K/D spread or even skill set of people here on GAF, we're at the far end of the bell curve, and thus it's our connections that are shit.

Meanwhile, the average joe is having some great games, but you'll never find them on a message board or even Reddit because that's not what the average joe does.

Basically, it's hard to tell if there is a problem or not without actually seeing the data ourselves. For all we know, we're just a vocal minority.


Side note: I would take 2-3 minute long matchmaking in a heartbeat if it meant my games had better connections.

 

[FyreWulff]

Do I have rose tinted glasses or does everyone pretty much agree that the connections in this game were pretty damn good from launch through HoW? I mean, you'd have a red bar in Trials here and there, but for the most part lag wasn't a problem. At least not in 3v3 which is where I spent most of my time.

I don't get why they don't go back to it. The "data" they love so much has to show how much worse connections are now, not to mention the community feedback.

I'm wondering if Destiny resets its host record with each patch.

Back in the Halo days, each online Halo game had a Host Record. The Bungie servers would collect data (343's for 4) and judge everyone's hosting quality. Patches would reset the host record, so in the older days that host record had a lot of time to mature - laggy games would be abundant at launch/patch release, but normalize over time.

I wonder if this backbone/tech is still in there, and I wonder if it keeps getting reset for each patch (set up that way since it seemed they launched Destiny with a more Halo-style release pace in mind) - and therefore Destiny's internal host metrics never get time to mature.

This is 100% speculation, just going off what I reversengineered know about previous Bungie engines.

edit: this was also per-playlist, so it's even possible that Iron Banner's host record (if it has one) gets reset every time it shows up.

 

[xplicitone]

Dedis don't fix that issue since they just move the host to different location. I mean, I'd like them.. but they don't address that issue. They mostly just make the lag consistent.

It eliminates 1 person having host advantage. In the majority of my games yesterday, 1 person was red bar while everyone else was yellow. I'm guessing the red was host. The yellows weren't nearly as bad as the red.

I'm also under the impression that from dedicated servers, if you're lagging, you're at a disadvantage instead of advantage as it is today in Destiny.

I'm always a yellow when I play with gaffers, my snipes don't register half the time. It's a world of difference when I play in a game where I'm a green bar. It's been much more noticeable since damage referee was implemented.

I'm wondering if that's more from CBMM. I don't really see what damage referees has to do with green/red/yellow bars. It's true that when playing a game with great connections, it's a huge difference and makes it fun. Playing against the lag isn't fun at all :\

EDIT: Although when they did implement the ref, I felt like everyone was green bars when they shouldn't be.

 

[Trakan]

I'm wondering if Destiny resets its host record with each patch.

Back in the Halo days, each online Halo game had a Host Record. The Bungie servers would collect data (343's for 4) and judge everyone's hosting quality. Patches would reset the host record, so in the older days that host record had a lot of time to mature - laggy games would be abundant at launch/patch release, but normalize over time.

I wonder if this backbone/tech is still in there, and I wonder if it keeps getting reset for each patch (set up that way since it seemed they launched Destiny with a more Halo-style release pace in mind) - and therefore Destiny's internal host metrics never get time to mature.

This is 100% speculation, just going off what I reversengineered know about previous Bungie engines.

edit: this was also per-playlist, so it's even possible that Iron Banner's host record (if it has one) gets reset every time it shows up.

Good to know how potentially ass-backwards things could be. I don't remember any particularly shitty times during TDB or HoW when we got patches that caused laggy games. I do remember them doing a series of "server maintenance" and it being shitty afterwards.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Happy Monday DGAF. I got pretty turned off from Trials this weekend despite the success I had with everyone on Saturday. The player pool, the lag/glitches, the pros doing carries...yeah, I still had fun, but at the expense of my sanity some cards.

I think I'll just finish IB tonight and get my toons to rank 5.

 

[FyreWulff]

It eliminates 1 person having host advantage. In the majority of my games yesterday, 1 person was red bar while everyone else was yellow. I'm guessing the red was host. The yellows weren't nearly as bad as the red.

I'm also under the impression that from dedicated servers, if you're lagging, you're at a disadvantage instead of advantage as it is today in Destiny.

Damage ref style (aggressive reduction of rollback) is independent of the network layout. Damage ref would still work the same way under dedis, in that players distant from the dedi would be getting less leeway for their stuff to register.

I mean, that's all "damage ref" really is. They reduced the rollback frames and clash windows. IIRC the leeway in previous games was 100ms. (Source: Halo 3's Melee Referee update). So either Destiny has reduced the window even lower or Destiny's window used to be bigger and is now closer to Halo levels again. This is why you see game events faster if you're greenbar now, because the simulation isn't taking as long to 'decide' what happened.

High rollback can feel less laggy and bullshit to everyone but it'll also produce a lot of through-wall corner kills (because on the host, you're still in the open) and other artifacts of asynch networking. Lower rollback means laggy players have less leeway but reduction of through wall kills and other "bullshit" kills but the host gains more advantage, and the host advantage in this situation is about the only thing a dedi addresses.

They haven't explained anything else about damage ref so maybe it's something like melees where simultaneous shots/melees kill both players if it's in a certain window instead of letting one person win if players don't have a big enough HP gap between each other.

 

[Trakan]

Bungie hasn't done melees right since Halo 2. I know the host had the advantage in H2, but I'll take that over what we got in the other Halo games or Destiny.

 

[xplicitone]

Damage ref style (aggressive reduction of rollback) is independent of the network layout. Damage ref would still work the same way under dedis, in that players distant from the dedi would be getting less leeway for their stuff to register.

I mean, that's all "damage ref" really is. They reduced the rollback frames and clash windows. IIRC the leeway in previous games was 100ms. (Source: Halo 3's Melee Referee update). So either Destiny has reduced the window even lower or Destiny's window used to be bigger and is now closer to Halo levels again. This is why you see game events faster if you're greenbar now, because the simulation isn't taking as long to 'decide' what happened.

High rollback can feel less laggy and bullshit to everyone but it'll also produce a lot of through-wall corner kills (because on the host, you're still in the open) and other artifacts of asynch networking. Lower rollback means laggy players have less leeway but reduction of through wall kills and other "bullshit" kills but the host gains more advantage, and the host advantage in this situation is about the only thing a dedi addresses.

They haven't explained anything else about damage ref so maybe it's something like melees where simultaneous shots/melees kill both players if it's in a certain window instead of letting one person win if players don't have a big enough HP gap between each other.

Yea I think they mentioned about simultaneous melee/shotgun type stuff not working in favor of the lagger but it doesn't seem to be working especially when going against a red bar as they have extra time to kill you before your kill / shots actually hit.

Quite a few times yesterday I've sniped a guy in the head, walked away and it took effect 3-5 seconds later. Another time where that person was able to revive a teammate before actually dying, causing them to actually win that round and the game. That stuff is beyond irritating, especially when they were the only red bar in the game, able to pull off that crap.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Bungie hasn't done melees right since Halo 2. I know the host had the advantage in H2, but I'll take that over what we got in the other Halo games or Destiny.

I thought Halo 3's was fine after they fixed it so the person with the most health didn't win the melee.

 

[xplicitone]

Oh well.

Friday's and Saturday's games weren't really laggy and were enjoyable. Sunday was atrocious.

Overall the past month or so, I've had mostly good connections which leads to a good experience, regardless of the outcome. No lag is typically a good time. Melee registration is a different topic and regardless of connection, it's not great.