xplicitone
Member
Tuesday-Thursday is a super slow time for Destiny PvP streamers. They need to come up with something that makes those days worth playing.
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Destiny |OT40| Killed by the Architects
- Thread starter DrDrizzay101
- Start date
The range is a complete joke. It feels like the shotgun pellets only travel 5 feet and the fall to the ground. I kinda hate that shotguns are super hard hitting at extremely close ranges, but beyond that they don't even make a dent.
If they went back to double damage, the range really wouldn't be a problem. They still wouldn't be viable in like, raid encounters though because they're tailored to sniper rifles.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Because the damage dropoff and horrible range of shotguns.
It's the same issue, really. If they 'fix' the range, then naturally the damage will seem higher. A damage buff would be nice, but even I admit that in HoW it was ridiculous as fuck(And because they had long range then, they were completely broken).
And I hate this raid for having that stupid shit. "Boss is invulnerable until damage phase than you snipe him boy how much fun". Literally every KF boss.
Yeah. Range is the biggest issue hands down. Which is hilarious that they're releasing the Remote Shotgun, because that either means that Bungie is still out of touch, or that they're buffing shotguns again. Unfortunately I think it's the former.
Slammin_Hammon
Member
When I play with shotguns in PvE range is inconsequential. I just prefer to bum rush and point blank shoot fools. The damage nerf and the poor raid design has pushed me away from shotguns more than any other shotgun changes. That's just me though.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Too complicated for Bungie I bet.
Or maybe...maybe...have baselines for each archetype in PvP that doesn't affect the PvE stats of it.
Nah, too much work.
Nailed it Hammon
JohnOfMars
Banned
Short answer: It's Bungie's game, and that's how they like it.
They have always had a strong desire for players to have a unified experience across PvE/PvP. The best we'll get is perks that do extra damage to certain enemies
SHANKBURN
It's deeply ingrained in them. Same as how they believe everyone should lose 50% of their Crucible games.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Unified experience my ass.
This game would be so good if not for their backwards beliefs.
The issue I see with that is it puts too much of a divide between PVP and PVE. Using the loot you collect in PVE is what makes the PVP what it is. The side effect of that is imbalances.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There'd be nothing wrong with having PvP-only weapons and vice versa. It'd be beneficial if anything. More carrots to chase, PvP balance can be focused on, and PvE balance would be it's own thing.
That's most raid encounters in this game.
I posted this on Reddit, but I am extremely curious to see if they decide to tweak MIDA in any possible way.
It absolutely must be in the Top 10 of Primaries used since it was moved into Year 2 in December. The gun is in no way OP or in need of any adjustment though, but if Bungie nerfs based on popularity or reliability then MIDA is a supreme target.
I would be shocked if they did though. MIDA is the result of Bungie nerfing Primary weapons to the point where basically none are powerful and/or reliable anymore. MIDA is reliable and consistent, which is why it's so popular. Hawkmoon, conversely is not because of the Accuracy/Range nonsense they hit it with (and all Handcannons to various degrees based on their Range stat). Recoil direction is also an important factor in Handcannons, which I don't know if they ever touched since release.
As someone on Reddit posted, how would the Crucible be if we had all the below at the same time:
- Original SUROS
- Post-(1st) Nerf Vex
- HoW Messsenger/Hopscotch
- HoW Hawkmoon
- HoW TLW (without 111 Crit Bug)
- HoW Red Death
- Current Thorn
Am I missing any?
It absolutely must be in the Top 10 of Primaries used since it was moved into Year 2 in December. The gun is in no way OP or in need of any adjustment though, but if Bungie nerfs based on popularity or reliability then MIDA is a supreme target.
I would be shocked if they did though. MIDA is the result of Bungie nerfing Primary weapons to the point where basically none are powerful and/or reliable anymore. MIDA is reliable and consistent, which is why it's so popular. Hawkmoon, conversely is not because of the Accuracy/Range nonsense they hit it with (and all Handcannons to various degrees based on their Range stat). Recoil direction is also an important factor in Handcannons, which I don't know if they ever touched since release.
As someone on Reddit posted, how would the Crucible be if we had all the below at the same time:
- Original SUROS
- Post-(1st) Nerf Vex
- HoW Messsenger/Hopscotch
- HoW Hawkmoon
- HoW TLW (without 111 Crit Bug)
- HoW Red Death
- Current Thorn
Am I missing any?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Atleast for VoG and Crotas End there's more opportunities to use shotguns
KF is just a snipefest.
Kor of Memory
Member
Man, this makes me wish we had a watered down Warpriest and a supe'd up Alak-hul switch places so the Alak-hul encounter was part of the raid, and Warpriest just got some extra abilities as you fought him in a strike, and his walls didn't disappear as you fought him or something.
A 6 man version of Alak-hul would have been amazing.
KF would offer just as many opportunities to use shotguns as the other two (dunking, totems, warpriest adds) if they still had double the damage. Nobody was using shotguns in VoG before the buff.
JohnOfMars
Banned
They can keep it unified, but go back to Year 1. Nobody used Fatebringer in Crucible. But you could. Nobody used Gjallarhon in Crucible in Year 1. Well, I did:
Just like nobody used Messenger in PvE.
Make guns more specialized for their realm and these kind of things will sort themselves out.
Like Black Hammer. Like Gjallarhorn. Like Final Round snipers. Like Felwinter's. Like Messenger. Like Fatebringer.
But instead we get bland gun designs that make everything boring or generic gun designs that when we realize they're powerful (Found Verdict, Hopscotch) get nerfed into blandness.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Alak Hul is a great fight. When you put it that way, yeah I'd prefer having Alak-hul with suped up darkness(removing your hud so you can't see allies positions, even darker), in a bigger arena...
And opportunities to use a shotgun.
Yeah I could see that. They could try and work it out like how WoW had specific items that worked for PVP, but were not suited for PVE.
Whats the possibility that major crucible changes would just take way too much rewriting of deep engine code that it just isn't feasible?
This is gold.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Very high I imagine. Very, very high.
Kor of Memory
Member
Consider that Destiny doesn't really differentiate from PvE to PvP at all.
Everything about Destiny is made to traverse all aspects of the game. All weapons, abilities, equipment, etc... are meant to work in every facet of the game.
So asking for an overhaul isn't even really a thing. What you're asking for is for Bungie to build a PvP "mode" from the ground up.
If Bungie ever actually let Destiny be the loot game is what meant to be, then they could play with more perks being PvP or PvE focused.
Some of the worst perks in the game were the House of Wolves target specific perks where you could do more damage to very specific enemy units. This in itself isn't a bad thing, and could be expanded upon, but it only works if loot drops like crazy so players can actually put together an outfit that has some form of synergy.
Like, I'd love to have a full "Hive" set of gear where my Helmet gives me bonus super energy for Hive kills. My Gloves create orbs from Thrall melee kills. My Chest causes Hive enemies to drop 1.2X as much ammo, and my boots create orbs when I kill Knights with Heavy weapons.
If I knew all of those were a thing, and I could expect them to drop somewhat consistently, then I would put that set together.
As it is, gear is too few and far between, and thus no one really wants to level up more than one set. So they just find the best of the best abilities (typically for PvP, and just deal with it in PvE).
Edit: Sorry, went way far off on a tangent there...
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You dont have to be sorry kor i love tangents
I don't think it needs an overhaul. I just think they shouldn't be afraid to add mutlipliers to certain weapons or classes of weapons' stats specifically for PvE or crucible. They have proven this absolutely is a thing they can do with the shotgun buff last year, and it was universally loved by the playerbase. I just want more of that.
jmvmadeira
Member
Uncharted coming soon....
Can't wait, probably not getting it at launch considering I have to play the first 3 first.
<--- Too many socks
Kor of Memory
Member
Personally, I'm not a fan of damage multipliers towards PvE enemies. Something about it screams band-aid. Like, they didn't have the foresight to actually balance the game/damage properly, so here is a quick equation adjustment to fix it for the time being.
Not that I have a particularly good idea to offer in it's place. I just don't like having a weapon that feels very powerful against a Titan, and then less/more powerful against a Captain or something else more equivocal to a Guardian.
It's not their vision for pvp at ALL, but, I'd like to see a mode with supers disabled, personal loadouts/gear perks disabled, forced same starting weapons, and fighting for power weapons (exotics) on the map as well as powerups ala Halo that could give a player access to use 1 super or something similar.
I just don't like the thought of playing pvp with so much random bullshit and being at a disadvantage because you're gear isn't as good as someone elses.
Edit: vvv Yep.
I just don't like the thought of playing pvp with so much random bullshit and being at a disadvantage because you're gear isn't as good as someone elses.
Edit: vvv Yep.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
This sounds like Halo.
It screams band-aid because that's exactly what it is. Obviously we'd all PREFER that they'd had the foresight you mention above, but clearly they didn't. If a band-aid is the best we can get, I'll take it.
BlindMonkey
Member
As someone who is 100% a PVE player (except the odd IB here or there)
And Warlocks are my first love (I have one of each and love them all, but my Warlock has been with me right from the start of my 1800 hours)
I really hope they don't nerf Warlocks and take my fun out of the game.
Warlocks suck in King's Fall and just make up numbers though, Defenders and Nightstalkers are what's needed.
Give Warlocks something like that pls.
And Warlocks are my first love (I have one of each and love them all, but my Warlock has been with me right from the start of my 1800 hours)
I really hope they don't nerf Warlocks and take my fun out of the game.
Warlocks suck in King's Fall and just make up numbers though, Defenders and Nightstalkers are what's needed.
Give Warlocks something like that pls.
Damage multipliers are already there. It's never been and will never be 1:1. Even if the game was balanced as you wanted it to be, how would it not be an equation adjustment to differentiate between the two?
More damage in PVE, give it to me. I want it.
Yeah, I generally have no problems using shotguns in PvE.
Lately though I've stuck Fusion Rifles on all of my characters because I'm so tired of using shotguns.
I've seen some aggressively poor Nightfall drops recently
On the bright side: Sleeper Simulant and Dragon's Breath are really fun to use this week.
xplicitone
Member
Warlock OP:
RIP TLW & MELEE
RIP TLW & MELEE
ErnieMcCracken
Member
The fact that they put elemental primaries in a highly unachievable (for the average player) location (Mercury) is still sort of shitty. Best PVE weapons (elementals) as a high-skill PVP reward. Unlike Y1 where we got Fatebringer and VoC from VoG. They need to make raid weapons worth it again.
BlindMonkey
Member
Warlock OP:
RIP TLW & MELEE
Hot Warlock on Warlock action.
Still need help? I can join in for a NF or a few.
xplicitone
Member
For anyone who hasn't seen it:
David Candland's UI presentation at GDC 2016
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023460/Tenacious-Design-and-The-Interface
Tha gawd
David Candland's UI presentation at GDC 2016
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023460/Tenacious-Design-and-The-Interface
Tha gawd
Slammin_Hammon
Member
What really sucks is that elemental primaries are completely gone on the sole basis of Bungie not understanding what makes weapons like fatebringer or vision of confluence so appealing.
HoW Shotguns in PvE did more damage than swords do now. They made PvE content trivial, yellow bars didn't mean a thing. Major or not, they'd melt in a second.
I am surprised people who like PvE preferred a sandbox where there was even less of a chance of a non-boss enemy killing you with their cheap one shots than there is now. Which is a lot to say since honestly you'll maaaaaaybe die once in a strike, and it'll be a rare sight.
I am surprised people who like PvE preferred a sandbox where there was even less of a chance of a non-boss enemy killing you with their cheap one shots than there is now. Which is a lot to say since honestly you'll maaaaaaybe die once in a strike, and it'll be a rare sight.
Already solo'd it. I'm helping two guys now, maybe we can run a third later.
It was more fun then than it is now.
And yellow bars sure as hell were a threat. Remember Skolas before they removed the majors from it and tied the spawns to his health? It was a goddamn nightmare. Shotguns were a high risk, high reward weapon in the second half of year one. Now they're just high risk.
Shotguns are supposed to be powerful as fuck. Excuse the gory comparison, but you shoot a 12 gauge at any living thing within ten feet IRL you're going to cut it in half. Sprinting through fire and sliding into shotty range of a captain and burning his ass never got old. They felt like how you expect shotguns to feel. The lightswitch modifier was in play pretty often in Nightfalls & PoE too, so the risk was even higher.
The sword comparison is overstated. As it stands currently, there isn't any situation in PvE save for maybe the dunking at the beginning of King's Fall, where anyone uses anything but a Sniper. Because there's no reason to. Swords are heavies, give you third person situational awareness, require no reloads, and give you an option to actually tank damage. There's no reason they can't both be powerful.
xplicitone
Member
First they gave it something like 10% buff (forgot this exact number), then a 100% buff, then a 50% nerf (forgot exact) that basically made it go back to a 10% buff in the end.
They should have made it so the 100% buff was a 50% buff, that would have been pretty good IMO. Obviously 100% was OP as heck but hey it made PvE really fun.