Support NeoGAF

[JohnOfMars]

I'm not sure how I feel about this April update to be honest. I spent a lot of time last night thinking about Destiny. What I want it to be. What it could be. But ultimately, what it is.

This update feels phoned in to me. There's nothing really exciting about it for me. LL335 is the lamest thing ever. Gear that I can get, but requires gross microtransactions and consummables to work. Prison of Elders I liked, but the lack of balancing for PvE (hello! shotguns!) puts a damper on that.

My trials teammates seem pretty letdown too, which would be the only reason to get really invested.

Spoiler

I think the only thing that could get me interested is there is a new exciting Hic Jacet replacement, and that's only if Ape & Igor will keep playing with me.

Year 2 has been a total letdown for me. Taken King was fantastic until the endgame. The Endgame is a complete disaster and this April update isn't going to change that.

The bloom is off the rose.

 

[Jafku]

You guys think we will hear about the expansion at E3?

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Saw this just now:

Destiny creative lead and 13-year vet leaves Bungie

I have a bad feeling there's some serious creative differences going on. To be employed at a company THAT long in this day and age and only now just leave? That to me reeks of him not liking the direction of the game or the direction of the company.

Bungie's philosophy on PvE/PvP doesn't work for Destiny. It just doesn't. That works for a different game. Bungie has zero faith in their players' abilities to understand why a gun would work differently in and outside of the crucible.

The vibe I got from this April update is...maybe I need to be a player that just comes around for the big content drops with Raids and substantial PvE.

 

[JohnOfMars]

The vibe I got from this April update is...maybe I need to be a player that just comes around for the big content drops with Raids and substantial PvE.

I write 600 words and then you nail it in 30.

But Ape! I had so much fun playing with you an Igor! :tears:

 

[WipedOut]

I have a bad feeling there's some serious creative differences going on.

Bungie's philosophy on PvE/PvP doesn't work for Destiny. It just doesn't. That works for a different game. Bungie has zero faith in their players' abilities to understand why a gun would work differently in and outside of the crucible.

The vibe I got from this April update is...maybe I need to be a player that just comes around for the big content drops with Raids and substantial PvE.

But that isn't the case, they are prioritizing PVP over PVE

 

[TheAquaticApe]

I write 600 words and then you nail it in 30.

But Ape! I had so much fun playing with you an Igor! :tears:

Totally John. I enjoy playing with you and everyone else here, but Bungie has shown their hand. We are never going back to Y1 and Y1 DLC type stuff.

But that isn't the case, they are prioritizing PVP over PVE

You're right. It's absurd that those changes should carry over into PvE.

And honestly, don't even get me started on the Warlock/Class update nonsense. You have enough time to create what...a DOZEN new emotes? But you can't figure out how to address the Firebolt issue? You can't TRY and fix the BladeDancer's Hit detection?

Yes, I understand Bungie is a company that needs to make money and pay the bills. It's clear the bottom line is now THE king over there above all else. Emotes generate revenue. Fixes to the community wants cost too much to work on.

That's fine, but maybe that tells me Destiny is not the game I should be spending my time with as much anymore.

Edit: AND one last salt hit from me....the Sniper changes ENCOURAGE even more camping and hard scoping. GG Bungie. Guess I better learn to snipe.

 

[WeTeHa]

Holy crap I just got the cloak of taniks from a random heroic strike. YES!

 

[WipedOut]

Totally John. I enjoy playing with you and everyone else here, but Bungie has shown their hand. We are never going back to Y1 and Y1 DLC type stuff.



You're right. It's absurd that those changes should carry over into PvE.

And honestly, don't even get me started on the Warlock/Class update nonsense. You have enough time to create what...a DOZEN new emotes? But you can't figure out how to address the Firebolt issue? You can't TRY and fix the BladeDancer's Hit detection?

Yes, I understand Bungie is a company that needs to make money and pay the bills. It's clear the bottom line is now THE king over there above all else. Emotes generate revenue. Fixes to the community wants cost too much to work on.

That's fine, but maybe that tells me Destiny is not the game I should be spending my time with as much anymore.

But you are a PVP'er. They are making improvements for you guys. I take this update with grain of salt on what I should expect. From the way they were describing it, warlocks sunsinger class IS going to take a ton of work so they focused on what they could fix quickly with the garage band team they have patched together.

Salt should be reserved for the changes they make that nobody asked for.

 

[Trakan]

I give them a pass on this one because mid stride they totally redesigned their release plans.

Destiny 2017 will likely have a better post launch release schedule since it will be built in from the ground up.

Bungie never had content past taken king ready to go, Or if they did, they knew it wasn't enough, so the packed more of it together to save for the expansion later this year.

Do you really think Destiny 2017 will be built from the ground up? Personally I still think they planned to launch Destiny 2 this fall, a year after TTK, but then realized it wasn't going to happen. They talked to Activision about it and of course Activision wasn't going to let them go that long without any releases so they introduced microtransactions. My guess is they're also pulling content that was supposed to be part of Destiny 2 out for this new fall expansion.

Then there's that Kotaku article that mentioned the Cabal raid. Who knows how much work is/was done on that and if that's part of the expansion we're getting this fall.

 

[deviant1]

There's a year 2 Spare Change? I've never seen one of these drop since TTK launched.

 

[JohnOfMars]

There's a year 2 Spare Change? I've never seen one of these drop since TTK launched.

Legendary drops, to quote Bungie, "have been a little light."

 

[TheAquaticApe]

But you are a PVP'er. They are making improvements for you guys. I take this update with grain of salt on what I should expect. From the way they were describing it, warlocks sunsinger class IS going to take a ton of work so they focused on what they could fix quickly with the garage band team they have patched together.

Salt should be reserved for the changes they make that nobody asked for.

Well, I would consider myself both actually. We have raided together before Wipe!

I'm not saying it wouldn't take a lot of work. But maybe instead of working on RNG on top of RNG and emotes you put resources into significant changes that the community is asking for.

These changes feel like...well we looked at a graph and decided to do this. I never once heard, "We noticed while playing the game..."

 

[Kor of Memory]

Do you really think Destiny 2017 will be built from the ground up? Personally I still think they planned to launch Destiny 2 this fall, a year after TTK, but then realized it wasn't going to happen. They talked to Activision about it and of course Activision wasn't going to let them go that long without any releases so they introduced microtransactions. My guess is they're also pulling content that was supposed to be part of Destiny 2 out for this new fall expansion.

Then there's that Kotaku article that mentioned the Cabal raid. Who knows how much work is/was done on that and if that's part of the expansion we're getting this fall.

That's not what I said.

What I said was when they release Destiny 2017, they'll have a brand new release plan for DLC and/or future content built from the ground up.

Edit: I guess I should have written that sentence better or thrown in a comma or something.

 

[Trakan]

That's not what I said, don't put words in my mouth.

What I said was when they release Destiny 2017, they'll have a brand new release plan for DLC and/or future content built from the ground up.

Take it easy, your statement could have been interpreted either way.

I think you're looking at the release schedule for DLC. It's a small free update here and there from the live team, and every other year will rotate a TTK sized expansion and a numbered sequel.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Take it easy, your statement could have been interpreted either way.

I think you're looking at the release schedule for DLC. It's a small free update here and there from the live team, and every other year will rotate a TTK sized expansion and a numbered sequel.

See edit above. My fault.

 

[JohnOfMars]

That's not what I said, don't put words in my mouth.

What I said was when they release Destiny 2017, they'll have a brand new release plan for DLC and/or future content built from the ground up.

But why isn't Year 2 that way? They knew from the start there wouldn't be small expansions. This year they didn't have small expansions to ship. This year they had Microtransactions to fund a Live team. This year to me, represents Bungie's vision.

Next year, though? They're adapting from a delayed sequel and who knows what lessons they drew from this year. (Apparently, more microtrasnactions.)

We're 1.75 years in, and at this point, I'm just getting leery of saying, "Next time Bungie will get it right." Year 2 is worse than Year 1.

 

[WipedOut]

Well, I would consider myself both actually. We have raided together before Wipe!

I'm not saying it wouldn't take a lot of work. But maybe instead of working on RNG on top of RNG and emotes you put resources into significant changes that the community is asking for.

These changes feel like...well we looked at a graph and decided to do this. I never once heard, "We noticed while playing the game..."

You know what I mean.

Anyway, you hit the nail on the head in the part in Bold. Watching Wish yesterday he said the exact same thing. They need testers that actually play the game, take their input ect. The people playing the game yesterday were horrible, I remember saying in discord, I'm even better than these guys.

We're 1.75 years in, and at this point, I'm just getting leery of saying, "Next time Bungie will get it right." Year 2 is worse than Year 1.

But is it really? I mean really sit down and think about how much Grind they really have removed from the game. QOL has never been better, only thing at this point that is missing is buying Armor Parts. We can get rid of excess mats by selling for faction. I know it's hard for some of you hoarders to dispense with you glutton of wealth. Weapons and Armor don't take obscene amounts of mats to level up (Yes Armor still sucks due to how much XP they require) and Marks never seem to be a problem which at first we feared they would be.

In terms of Weapons and Sandbox play, yes Y2 is worse than Y1. I miss year 1 weapons. Other than that though they have made very positive changes and the final nail was changing infusion to be 1:1

It's not all doom and gloom as some of y'all make it out to be. ( this is not addressed to you John, speaking in general)

 

[JohnOfMars]

But is it really? I mean really sit down and think about how much Grind they really have removed from the game.

Year 2 is night and day difference in terms of grind. LL is just grind. That's all it is. RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. That's why raid weapons suck, they're just infusion fuel. That's why drop rates are so abysmal. That's why infusion was so costly. Year 2 is all grind, and worse, the rewards aren't there like in Year 1. Year 1's grind got you Fatebringer, Black Spindle, Gjallarhorn. Year 2, you're just hoping for a 320 weapon. Whoop-de-doo.

Artifacts and Ghosts aren't interesting and are only LL penalties. Class items don't change with shaders. There are less customization options than in Year 1.

QOL has never been better, only thing at this point that is missing is buying Armor Parts. We can get rid of excess mats by selling for faction. I know it's hard for some of you hoarders to dispense with you glutton of wealth. Weapons and Armor don't take obscene amounts of mats to level up (Yes Armor still sucks due to how much XP they require) and Marks never seem to be a problem which at first we feared they would be.

Actually, DeeJ hinted at Armor parts being purchasable in the update on twitter. Weapons parts and armor parts are real sore spot for me. They represented Bungie adding more grind to the game. Sure I can sell my mats now, but that's required since they nerfed Reputation across the board for Year 2 (only to add consummables, which again are more currencies, more grind.)

In terms of Weapons and Sandbox play, yes Y2 is worst than Y1. I miss year 1 weapons. Other than that though they have made very positive changes and the final nail was changing infusion to be 1:1

It's not all doom and gloom as some of y'all make it out to be.

Infusion 1:1 and increasing drop rates is the bare minimum they could do to fix Light, but it's too little, too late for me. Why did it take so long?

A short litany of WTF decisions from Year 2: Why do CM drop 320 artifacts for every boss for every week? Why is Hard mode nearly identical to Normal mode? Why is Challenge Mode nearly identical to Hard mode? Why do raid drops at 300, when you can get 300 blues? Is a LL310 drop Harrowed or not? Why can you beat a Raid boss and get no reward? 2 shards for 20? No incentive to replay any of the old missions or strikes? All Year 2 maps are compromised by being Rift maps. PvP balancing dominating PvE again and again.

I do not want another Year 2.

 

[Trakan]

A short litany of WTF decisions from Year 2: Why do CM drop 320 artifacts for every boss for every week? Why is Hard mode nearly identical to Normal mode? Why is Challenge Mode nearly identical to Hard mode? Why do raid drops at 300, when you can get 300 blues? Is a LL310 drop Harrowed or not? Why can you beat a Raid boss and get no reward? 2 shards for 20? No incentive to replay any of the old missions or strikes? All Year 2 maps are compromised by being Rift maps. PvP balancing dominating PvE again and again.

I do not want another Year 2.

I couldn't agree more. There's no reason to even be 320. I stopped raiding after trying a couple of the challenge modes. I didn't even bother with Oryx. I question whether the grind was really worse in Y1 when you got max attack weapons/armor. Activities were infinitely more enjoyable with weapons that were good, and elemental primaries for the NF. It feels like the NF rotation has less strikes in it now than it did in Y1. I chased Hawkmoon for like, 10 months.

There were good things introduced in Y2, but too much changed for the negative.

 

[WeTeHa]

Maintenance just started.

 

[X-Frame]

I chased Hawkmoon for like, 10 months.

Hawkmoon was the gun I wanted the most since I first saw it. I ended up not getting it until August of 2015, or the LAST exotic weapon I needed. I never experienced it during its reign, which sucks.

That's another thing, I really don't understand the TLW nerf upcoming. How often, really, are people two-shotted? Maybe in Trials? I can't really recall that ever happening to me in regular pubs. If players are good at that, isn't that the whole point of the perk and the weapon? The ultimate skill ceiling being able to accurately headshot twice in a row, from the hip, while getting fired upon.

So they nerfed an occurrence that may happen extremely rarely. Same with the stacking of Hawkmoon's lucky bullets. What was the point of that? How often did I get one-shotted by Hawkmoon in PvP? Absolutely never that I can remember, and even if it was a few times who cares because of the incredibly low chances of that happening. I bet it occurred to users once or twice at most in their entire playtime.

 

[LTWood12]

Hard Mode Kings Fall is no less different from Normal than the other raids. Detainment and a couple extra Gorgons; No chalice of light and a Gatekeeper thrown into the final encounter. I'd say the lighteater Knights are actually more interesting than any of that other stuff.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Hard Mode Kings Fall is no less different from Normal than the other raids. Detainment and a couple extra Gorgons; No chalice of light and a Gatekeeper thrown into the final encounter. I'd say the lighteater Knights are actually more interesting than any of that other stuff.

That's my point, actually. They billed King's Fall Hard Mode as different & designed first. Instead it's about the same as other raids, as you said.

 

[WipedOut]

Hard Mode Kings Fall is no less different from Normal than the other raids. Detainment and a couple extra Gorgons; No chalice of light and a Gatekeeper thrown into the final encounter. I'd say the lighteater Knights are actually more interesting than any of that other stuff.

Speaking of Vault, anyone up for a Crota and VoG tonight. Random Retro Night? I need to Run Homey's Alt through them since I got it to 40 last night.

His first Exotic from PoE Chest was:

rumRoll:

 

[Homeboyd]

:suicide:

 

[Dreamgazer]

while we're at it:

Also going to retry our attempt at HM Warpriest at 8:30PM EST Tonight.

1. Dreamgazer
2. Dthomp
3. Shiv
4. Gears (?)
5.
6.

Dthomp and Shiv are a little rusty on raids, so any high-light people that want to help out would be great.

 

[xplicitone]

I do not want another Year 2.

200 legendary mark limit and a legendary engram from cryptarch, at least special weapon is like 135 marks. That is way too expensive. It should be no more than 75 marks.

Destiny literally needs to make it rain engrams for events. So many different guns and rolls as it is.

After a nightfall, you should get motes/strange coins, glimmer, and 3-5 legendary engrams with a chance at an exotic.

Each raid boss should also drop legendary engrams with a chance at exotics. Screw 3oC needing to use for a chance at exotic.

Rank 5 IB should rain rewards.

Mercury should rain rewards.

Completing weekly bounties should rain rewards.

It's like they're so scared to reward us.

 

[Trakan]

In case no one saw it, there's server maintenance from 8-1PST/4-9GMT today

Edit and calling it now but the New Monarch Antinomy XVI will be the new sniping meta, 69 AA and a low zoom scope thats not going to be nerfed,

I started looking up the Antinomy and remembered the raid sniper. The Yasmin will be the new go-to.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I started looking up the Antinomy and remembered the raid sniper. The Yasmin will be the new go-to.

really?

 

[Trakan]

really?

Super high AA, low-zoom scope, and can potentially res-snipe with the new lower shields in Trials.

 

[Kalamari]

200 legendary mark limit and a legendary engram from cryptarch, at least special weapon is like 135 marks. That is way too expensive. It should be no more than 75 marks.

Destiny literally needs to make it rain engrams for events. So many different guns and rolls as it is.

After a nightfall, you should get motes/strange coins, glimmer, and 3-5 legendary engrams with a chance at an exotic.

Each raid boss should also drop legendary engrams with a chance at exotics. Screw 3oC needing to use for a chance at exotic.

Rank 5 IB should rain rewards.

Mercury should rain rewards.

Completing weekly bounties should rain rewards.

It's like they're so scared to reward us.

They still don't understand that good gamelay is the best reward.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Speaking of Vault, anyone up for a Crota and VoG tonight. Random Retro Night? I need to Run Homey's Alt through them since I got it to 40 last night.

If I can pull myself away from the Divison, I'm down for Crota's End, maybe even Crota x3 if you're up for it.

The Crux Quest continues.

 

[Mass Appeal]

200 legendary mark limit and a legendary engram from cryptarch, at least special weapon is like 135 marks. That is way too expensive. It should be no more than 75 marks.

Destiny literally needs to make it rain engrams for events. So many different guns and rolls as it is.

After a nightfall, you should get motes/strange coins, glimmer, and 3-5 legendary engrams with a chance at an exotic.

Each raid boss should also drop legendary engrams with a chance at exotics. Screw 3oC needing to use for a chance at exotic.

Rank 5 IB should rain rewards.

Mercury should rain rewards.

Completing weekly bounties should rain rewards.

It's like they're so scared to reward us.

GREAT post!


Playing the Division and how many legendary or HE items drop at named npcs it makes me wishe Destiny wpuld reward us more.



I hate bringing up The Division but Massive is doing good things with that game like the patch info they just released about the crafting. Everyone was scared they would make it a grind but the patch notes just came out and everyones reaction is positive because they did exactly what the player base wanted.


Bungie, take some notes on how to patch aND update a game.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

They still don't understand that good gamelay is the best reward.

Wouldn't a lousy drop rate suggest that that's what they do think?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Division redeemed, Massive came through.

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.co....aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I can't even....

Increase drop rates of High-End items on named NPCs (100% drop rate, actually)
Increase drop rates of Division Tech, to make it less of a bottleneck than it currently is
Modify loot tables for each named NPC, to make the hunt for loot more controlled

 

[WipedOut]

If I can pull myself away from the Divison, I'm down for Crota's End, maybe even Crota x3 if you're up for it.

The Crux Quest continues.

Let's grab some people. I'm down.

 

[WipedOut]

Division redeemed, Massive came through.

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.co....aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I can't even....

I'm hunting the DZ with you. I need that Ruthless DZ protection plan. I mean this is an awesome update and makes sense why the NPC's on the personal player map don't respawn now

 

[WeTeHa]

Let's grab some people. I'm down.

Depending on the time, I can join. Though I'm guessing you are planning after 8 pm EST, which is too late for me.

 

[Mass Appeal]

Division redeemed, Massive came through.

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.co....aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I can't even....

Yah amazing. It's like they listen to their player base or something. I don't know what that feels like with Destiny

 

[Lnkn52]

Division redeemed, Massive came through.

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.co....aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I can't even....

 

[JohnOfMars]

Division redeemed, Massive came through.

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.co....aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

I can't even....

Increase drop rates of High-End items on named NPCs (100% drop rate, actually)
Increase drop rates of Division Tech, to make it less of a bottleneck than it currently is
Modify loot tables for each named NPC, to make the hunt for loot more controlled​

Meanwhile, almost 7 months after launch, Bungie admits that legendary drops have been "a little light."

 

[Lnkn52]

No Pictures of Dogs in Massive.

 

[DonutTurtle]

Massive fucking nailed it. Bungie take notes.

 

[WipedOut]

Depending on the time, I can join. Though I'm guessing you are planning after 8 pm EST, which is too late for me.

If it doesn't happen tonight I will try and plan one for saturday at a little earlier time.

 

[WipedOut]

Massive fucking nailed it. Bungie take notes.

Basically this would be like an exotic dropping from every strike boss, guaranteed. Doo It Bungie.

 

[E92 M3]

Bungie is confused how Massive is okay with the players being happy and having fun.

 

[Kalamari]

Wouldn't a lousy drop rate suggest that that's what they do think?

You could argue that, yes. But then why would they constantly say they want to reward players more?

With more solid gameplay mechanics, netcode improvements, and a focus on creating better maps, they would retain the playerbase far better than just increasing the number of rewards given.

 

[D_psipher]

Basically this would be like an exotic dropping from every strike boss, guaranteed. Doo It Bungie.

Hell at least a bunch of legendaries with a chance for an exotic in the mix. The nightfall should be a guaranteed exotic with strange coins and motes, plus the XP buff.

 

[E92 M3]

It still frustrates me that Bungie took away the guaranteed strange coins from the weekly strikes.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Bungie needs to implement Massive changes to its loot drop rates.