Support NeoGAF

[LTWood12]

Ah the great weapon parts nerf debacle. My first and only neogaf ban. Why back in those days you couldn't even buy a pack of weapon parts. We grew up havin' to scavenge for em'...

 

[Axoman]

I think it’s safe to say that the highs and fun of year one are never going to return.

The thrill of the chase of the Gjallarhorn for so many, or other really fun exotics, will never exist again.

What makes Destiny so great for me are #1 the people I play with and #2 the powerful weapons.

When my friends weren’t around, I had really fun weapons to play with and cause havoc in strikes and patrol.

I don’t feel most of Destiny’s encounters are inherently fun on their own, but powerful weapons making me feel like a bad ass or playing with friends make the encounters fun for me.

It’s sad for me to admit it, but I’ve lost hope for Destiny 2, or any other future release to bring back the emotions and experiences I had in year one. Sure, there will be new content and a lot of things to do, but there will no longer be things worth chasing. It’s Bungie’s philosophy. They want everything the same, no outliers or overpowered stuff. It all has to be equally dull.

Until that philosophy is changed, we are going to continue on this path, and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

 

[Kor of Memory]

A fair point but the infusion change rolls around after 6 months of us having to put up with the old system and its not really going to make any difference now unless you want to spend money on MT's, so you could argue the change has been made not for our benefit but theres to encourage player spending

Nearly everything good they've done is a complete 180 of a practice that fucked the player base over. If they quickly acknowledged mistakes and rectified them they'd get a free pass but they leave things in place for far too long, thus making the community maximum salty/tired of the game

Exactly. We even knew a long time ago that Bungie said the infusion formula was subject to change behind the scenes shortly after TTK first came out.

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

The lag has been a big issue in this game for a while now and if that were their focus on logging on and enjoying the gameplay, we would have had all these issues resolved.

I honestly never found lag to be much of an issue but it is a lot better now than it was in Y1. It'll never be perfect because Bungie just can't control user connections. Even if a connection pings fine during matchmaking there is no telling what it'll do when the match is actually active or how the connection will change because someone in that house starts uploading something.

 

[Deku Tree]

Has anyone spoke to TheTylerDurden lately?

^^^

Sure, but that's the filter that changes usually go through. What you just said.

Good thing X usually gets overshadowed by unpopular thing Y.

I don't like being res sniped. I think it's a rather cheap thing, tbh. This update on paper makes it look like res sniping will get easier, not harder.

But will the increased rarity of special ammo in pvp and the change to sniper rifles balance that out? Even though res sniping might be easier, will it be viable? I don't know, I am going to play to find out.

Do I think this change offsets infusion, even if this change is a detriment to me? I don't believe it will, and I don't really look at it that way anyways.

The infusion change is going to benefit me immediately and quickly with the gear I equip that I use all the time.

People are saying they want more rewards. The silvery treasure packages are going to be easy to get - that's a new reward. No one talking about it.

But I totally get your point. The reason we are where we are now is because of everything that's been said and done up to this point. But are we now at a point of no return where the salt will flow mighty and strong just because the running list of 'bad' can never be erased or overshadowed by the list of 'good'?

But do you really not know the answer?

 

[TheTylerDurden]

A fair point but the infusion change rolls around after 6 months of us having to put up with the old system and its not really going to make any difference now unless you want to spend money on MT's, so you could argue the change has been made not for our benefit but theres to encourage player spending

Nearly everything good they've done is a complete 180 of a practice that fucked the player base over. If they quickly acknowledged mistakes and rectified them they'd get a free pass but they leave things in place for far too long, thus making the community maximum salty/tired of the game

MT's are not necessary to take advantage of the new infusion. Not sure why you think this is so.

You get a faction package by ranking up your faction. Let's say you get a 327 weapon. You can immediately infuse that into a 280 legendary that's dropped for you with the perfect roll, and take it right to 327.

Nothing to do with micro transactions, even though the MT stuff that you get (optional of course) shares the same benefit.

And yes you COULD argue it the way you suggest - and that would once again prove the point I am nibbling away at here. Even when Bungie makes a wonderful change like this we say:

- it should have always been that way
- they've been pissing me off for months so this is too little too late

And that's fine - it's kind of what I expect to see in discussion here. I'm just pointing out that if we're looking for happiness we're never going to find it because we have programmed ourselves to dismiss every positive change that comes 'because reasons'.

 

[JohnOfMars]

People are saying they want more rewards. The silvery treasure packages are going to be easy to get - that's a new reward. No one talking about it.

We talked a lot about it. It's not something we earn. It's just given to us, and it's used to push gross microtransactions. I think they're a terrible, terrible idea. I want the raid to be rewarding. I want Nightfalls to be rewarding. I want normal activites to be rewarding. Not a gimme package of RNG stuff every week.

But I totally get your point. The reason we are where we are now is because of everything that's been said and done up to this point. But are we now at a point of no return where the salt will flow mighty and strong just because the running list of 'bad' can never be erased or overshadowed by the list of 'good'?

Every Bungie action is the minimum needed to any problem. In this case, the problem is "there's no new content, but our pyschological hooks in the game have created a player base ravenous for new content". This April update really reads as the minimum amount needed. Only one class balanced. Firebolts unbalanced because it'd be too hard to balance, etc.

Whether in words or in game fixes, if they can skate by with little or nothing (e.g. Firefly crash), then they will. This leads to a community that is either boiling over, or just under the boiling point.

 

[E92 M3]

I think it’s safe to say that the highs and fun of year one are never going to return.

The thrill of the chase of the Gjallarhorn for so many, or other really fun exotics, will never exist again.

What makes Destiny so great for me are #1 the people I play with and #2 the powerful weapons.

When my friends weren’t around, I had really fun weapons to play with and cause havoc in strikes and patrol.

I don’t feel most of Destiny’s encounters are inherently fun on their own, but powerful weapons making me feel like a bad ass or playing with friends make the encounters fun for me.

It’s sad for me to admit it, but I’ve lost hope for Destiny 2, or any other future release to bring back the emotions and experiences I had in year one. Sure, there will be new content and a lot of things to do, but there will no longer be things worth chasing. It’s Bungie’s philosophy. They want everything the same, no outliers or overpowered stuff. It all has to be equally dull.

Until that philosophy is changed, we are going to continue on this path, and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Friends and Gjallarhorns - that's Destiny. Getting jealous over sexy loot drops in the raid. That's the kind of stuff I miss.

I have hopes for the sequel.

 

[Mindlog]

PvE and PvP balanced together for 'consistent gameplay' seems specious. When I regularly played PvP the only class that I didn't change much was bubble Titan. Every other class I'd be changing perks when playing PvP or PvE. Is it really consistent when more than half the PvP modes completely ignore light level? Hey, Mayhem would be fun in PvE if we're going to be consistent.

Pretty much confirmed it will rez snipe 2m52 minutes ago
@xHizzlex @DeeJ_BNG @lars_bakken yes. We meant to mention that. Not all, but more snipers for sure.

The Yasmin is the same stats as the Antinomy and Tamar but you can roll PvP perks with them

I'll buy one for all of my characters. I already liked the Antimony/Yasmin and I'm anticipating the irritation the 1kys ammo nerf will bring. Actually I may just buy one of everything on all of my characters. Free marks and I have damn near infinite Glimmer at this point.

Are there any non-salty user bases?

ME3 MP! That user base was hilarious. We mostly hated each other more than the balance team. We argued incessantly with one another, but the balance team listened to everyone and generally made the right decision. Even when some of us disagreed with changes most of the vitriol was saved for the community members that lobbied for those changes. I'll say it again; "I was wrong on the cloak nerf. That was absolutely the right decision."

Didn't hurt that balance changes took place every week or every other week so there would always be something new to discuss.
Didn't hurt that during the first year we always had new free content to look forward to.

That game even let you buy high end gear with real money D:
However, the economy was balanced enough that you would be better off getting good and using in-game credits
Thankfully they never did something silly like time-gate an important resource then encourage the player to pay to sneak in through the back door.

A fair point but the infusion change rolls around after 6 months of us having to put up with the old system and its not really going to make any difference now unless you want to spend money on MT's, so you could argue the change has been made not for our benefit but theres to encourage player spending

Agreed. Feels bad. You really don't want to be cynical, but it's hard to do when it takes months for the change to happen and it coincides with a new MT that benefits so greatly.

MT's are not necessary to take advantage of the new infusion. Not sure why you think this is so.

MT's are definitely not necessary to enjoy the benefit of 100% Infusion. However, 100% infusion is immensely beneficial to an item that starts at LL 3.

Even when Bungie makes a wonderful change like this we say:

The fix is simple. Don't introduce an infusable MT at the same time you address a community concern.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

^^^



But do you really not know the answer?

I really don't know the answer.

 

[the_id]

PVP anyone?

Spoiler

dis post gonna get drowned in salt

 

[Iceman829]

I think it’s safe to say that the highs and fun of year one are never going to return.

The thrill of the chase of the Gjallarhorn for so many, or other really fun exotics, will never exist again.

What makes Destiny so great for me are #1 the people I play with and #2 the powerful weapons.

When my friends weren’t around, I had really fun weapons to play with and cause havoc in strikes and patrol.

I don’t feel most of Destiny’s encounters are inherently fun on their own, but powerful weapons making me feel like a bad ass or playing with friends make the encounters fun for me.

It’s sad for me to admit it, but I’ve lost hope for Destiny 2, or any other future release to bring back the emotions and experiences I had in year one. Sure, there will be new content and a lot of things to do, but there will no longer be things worth chasing. It’s Bungie’s philosophy. They want everything the same, no outliers or overpowered stuff. It all has to be equally dull.

Until that philosophy is changed, we are going to continue on this path, and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Don't worry bud. I'll help you get to 30 in the division. Then you can join in on all the fun and mayhem we create. Also HE drops off everything we kill starting next week. Join in the party if you want to chat or need a hand. We won't mind you jumping in.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

PVP anyone?

Spoiler

dis post gonna get drowned in salt

are servers back up?

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

I don't like being res sniped. I think it's a rather cheap thing, tbh. This update on paper makes it look like res sniping will get easier, not harder.

A res-snipe was a OHK before, it still will be. The change, in my mind, will make it easier for people who can't res-snipe (for whatever reason, lack of skill, don't have that weapon equipped, etc) to down a player recently res'd player. It further hinders the revive based game.

 

[LTWood12]

MT's are not necessary to take advantage of the new infusion. Not sure why you think this is so.

You get a faction package by ranking up your faction. Let's say you get a 327 weapon. You can immediately infuse that into a 280 legendary that's dropped for you with the perfect roll, and take it right to 327.

Nothing to do with micro transactions, even though the MT stuff that you get (optional of course) shares the same benefit.

And yes you COULD argue it the way you suggest - and that would once again prove the point I am nibbling away at here. Even when Bungie makes a wonderful change like this we say:

- it should have always been that way
- they've been pissing me off for months so this is too little too late

And that's fine - it's kind of what I expect to see in discussion here. I'm just pointing out that if we're looking for happiness we're never going to find it because we have programmed ourselves to dismiss every positive change that comes 'because reasons'.

I think you misunderstand what mehr is saying. He's saying the change to infusion seems to conveniently have come at a time when they're introducing purchaseable gear, and a good way to make that 3 light level gear more enticing to spend money on, is to make it easily infuseable.

Certainly it's a welcome change and better late than never, but to many of us it feels a bit icky since it seems like it was something not done for quality of life, but because it helps sell silver. I'm sure it's probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[mehrmantrout]

MT's are not necessary to take advantage of the new infusion. Not sure why you think this is so.

You get a faction package by ranking up your faction. Let's say you get a 327 weapon. You can immediately infuse that into a 280 legendary that's dropped for you with the perfect roll, and take it right to 327.

Nothing to do with micro transactions, even though the MT stuff that you get (optional of course) shares the same benefit.

And yes you COULD argue it the way you suggest - and that would once again prove the point I am nibbling away at here. Even when Bungie makes a wonderful change like this we say:

- it should have always been that way
- they've been pissing me off for months so this is too little too late

And that's fine - it's kind of what I expect to see in discussion here. I'm just pointing out that if we're looking for happiness we're never going to find it because we have programmed ourselves to dismiss every positive change that comes 'because reasons'.

I'd argue that 1-1 infusion has been put in place because the Sterling treasure gear drops at 3 light, no ones going to spend money on that if they have to a) buy the gear then b) find another 10 pieces of 300+ gear to infuse into it

As said before I'd be way less salty if they were upfront and rectified/acknowleged issues regularly or if we even got a coherent BWU

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I think you misunderstand what mehr is saying. He's saying the change to infusion seems to conveniently have come at a time when they're introducing purchaseable gear, and a good way to make that 3 light level gear more enticing to spend money on, is to make it easily infuseable.

Certainly it's a welcome change and better late than never, but to many of us it feels a bit icky since it seems like it was something not done for quality of life, but because it helps sell silver. I'm sure it's probably somewhere in the middle.

Oh, I completely get it.

I just don't subscribe to the idea that this change is therefore bad because it's motivation (which we can only guess at) coincides with MT's. I don't let that notion rent space in my head and get in the way of my enjoyment of it

 

[TheAquaticApe]

And that's fine - it's kind of what I expect to see in discussion here. I'm just pointing out that if we're looking for happiness we're never going to find it because we have programmed ourselves to dismiss every positive change that comes 'because reasons'.

I disagree. Bungie has programmed us this way based on communication and how they have changed the game.

The April update features how many new emotes? A dozen? Maybe more? But they didn't have enough time and resources to actually fix or even address Sunsingers? What about the exploit on Frontier map? The priority for Bungie, BASED on what they have shown is the bottom line. Which that's fine. It's business. I get it. Funny how in Y1 it didn't feel like that.

 

[X-Frame]

ME3 MP! That user base was hilarious. We mostly hated each other more than the balance team. We argued incessantly with one another, but the balance team listened to everyone and generally made the right decision. Even when some of us disagreed with changes most of the vitriol was saved for the community members that lobbied for those changes. I'll say it again; "I was wrong on the cloak nerf. That was absolutely the right decision."

Didn't hurt that balance changes took place every week or every other week so there would always be something new to discuss.
Didn't hurt that during the first year we always had new free content to look forward to.

That game even let you buy high end gear with real money D:
However, the economy was balanced enough that you would be better off getting good and using in-game credits
Thankfully they never did something silly like time-gate an important resource then encourage the player to pay to sneak in through the back door.

Haha, I played ME3 MP probably almost every day for the first year (when I wasn't play ME3 SP). Looking forward to weekly Friday balance changes were a lot of fun, as was whatever Community Event they would introduce for the weekend.

I mean, look at all these balance changes in the first year! I probably posted this here already as an example but what the hell ..

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/264032-multiplayer-balance-changes

 

[the_id]

are servers back up?

Nope. Still down like Neogaf.com

 

[Axoman]

Don't worry bud. I'll help you get to 30 in the division. Then you can join in on all the fun and mayhem we create. Also HE drops off everything we kill starting next week. Join in the party if you want to chat or need a hand. We won't mind you jumping in.

Sweet! I'm just about to level 4. Taking it slow, but I'd like to have more time in the game before I jump in with you guys.



I don't like the increased revive timer in Trials. I'll only be alive at the beginning of each round since the round will be over before I'm able to be revived after all my deaths.

 

[Shiv47]

PVP anyone?

Spoiler

dis post gonna get drowned in salt

If the servers are back, I wouldn't mind running my Shaxx weeklies on a character. Just have to hop on. Edit: just saw that they aren't.

 

[spyder_ur]

Between this the response to The Division this week I have done some thinking if there is any 'right' way to balance these types of games and communicate with the users of your game while at the same time staying true to your vision of the game, using your data (which the players don't have) to inform game decisions, and to make plans for the future.

It seems like an impossible line to tend to, and I don't envy any of the developers that have to straddle it.

I've heard Diablo 3 floated as well - I haven't played that game so I don't know. I do know that the game was a disaster coming out of the gates though - it's good that they got it to a good spot.

ME3 MP! That user base was hilarious. We mostly hated each other more than the balance team. We argued incessantly with one another, but the balance team listened to everyone and generally made the right decision. Even when some of us disagreed with changes most of the vitriol was saved for the community members that lobbied for those changes. I'll say it again; "I was wrong on the cloak nerf. That was absolutely the right decision."

Didn't hurt that balance changes took place every week or every other week so there would always be something new to discuss.
Didn't hurt that during the first year we always had new free content to look forward to.

Didn't play much ME3 multiplayer either, although I've heard good thing.

Honestly though, that was 4 years ago - I do think things have changed in many ways since then.

 

[LTWood12]

Oh, I completely get it.

I just don't subscribe to the idea that this change is therefore bad because it's motivation (which we can only guess at) coincides with MT's. I don't let that notion rent space in my head and get in the way of my enjoyment of it

And that's great. I definitely plan on enjoying it, and I'm excited it is happening. I think for me, I just miss things like Luke coming in here and telling us how they were looking at feedback, where they think they made mistakes, and giving us some semblance of a back and forth. its not like we were entitled to that or anything, but now that it's gone it causes some frustration.

 

[Mass Appeal]

I honestly never found lag to be much of an issue but it is a lot better now than it was in Y1.It'll never be perfect because Bungie just can't control user connections. Even if a connection pings fine during matchmaking there is no telling what it'll do when the match is actually active or how the connection will change because someone in that house starts uploading something.

I think you're probably the only one that thinks that. I have been playing this game since alpha and imo it's way worse in year 2. SBMM being implemented in year 2 was one of those reasons and now they have gone back to CBMM or so they have said.


Dedicated servers would fix a lot but I don't think Bungie has to tools or resources to implement thay into Destiny. Imo they should be a must for Destiny 2..

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I disagree. Bungie has programmed us this way based on communication and how they have changed the game.

The April update features how many new emotes? A dozen? Maybe more? But they didn't have enough time and resources to actually fix or even address Sunsingers? What about the exploit on Frontier map? The priority for Bungie, BASED on what they have shown is the bottom line. Which that's fine. It's business. I get it. Funny how in Y1 it didn't feel like that.

I can't disagree about what you're saying about how we got here. Communication is pretty darned important, and if not handled well then even good things can be overshadowed by the bad.

I don't want to take up a position on this too vehemently. Even though I didn't mention it, people have in this thread pointed out that they saw me playing the private test build. That's cool, Bungie doesn't seem to have a way or desire to hide who their testers are. So that's public knowledge.

I know how that can look - it makes me a 'Bungie supporter' or whatever. I know this, so I don't want to drag this out because in people's minds that will go through that filter anyway (maybe). I've made my modest points.

 

[Iceman829]

Sweet! I'm just about to level 4. Taking it slow, but I'd like to have more time in the game before I jump in with you guys.

I don't like the increased revive timer in Trials. I'll only be alive at the beginning of each round since the round will be over before I'm able to be revived after all my deaths.

Yea. Take your time to learn the controls. Once you make it to Manhattan get the Base of Operations up and running. Collect all those side quests and then run the Medical Mission across the road at MSG to unlock the self heal followed by the Security Main mission to unlock a 10% boost in xp to all things in the game. Complete any side quests along the way if you need to level up The new update should make it easier getting you geared up in yellows once you make it to 30.

I saw the patch notes for this game and the changes made and there's probably no chance I pop the disc back in unless someone needs a hand getting a new guy through a raid. Guns seemed pretty level back before TTK to me except auto rifles needed some buffs I thought. I could kill you with red death, thorn, snipers or shotguns pretty evenly in trials at that time. I wasn't a TLW user but I believe it was good then? Ever since TTK the lag has gotten worse and the weapon balancing shifted too much for me to like it.

 

[mehrmantrout]

And that's great. I definitely plan on enjoying it, and I'm excited it is happening. I think for me, I just miss things like Luke coming in here and telling us how they were looking at feedback, where they think they made mistakes, and giving us some semblance of a back and forth. its not like we were entitled to that or anything, but now that it's gone it causes some frustration.

I get why Luke doesn't post on here anymore but Cozmo had his account approved made one post and has never been seen again

 

[TheTylerDurden]

And that's great. I definitely plan on enjoying it, and I'm excited it is happening. I think for me, I just miss things like Luke coming in here and telling us how they were looking at feedback, where they think they made mistakes, and giving us some semblance of a back and forth. its not like we were entitled to that or anything, but now that it's gone it causes some frustration.

Speaking of that...what happened with Luke anyways? I was sort off gaf for a long while and he was here, and then not.

 

[spyder_ur]

I can't disagree about what you're saying about how we got here. Communication is pretty darned important, and if not handled well then even good things can be overshadowed by the bad.

I don't want to take up a position on this too vehemently. Even though I didn't mention it, people have in this thread pointed out that they saw me playing the private test build. That's cool, Bungie doesn't seem to have a way or desire to hide who their testers are. So that's public knowledge.

I know how that can look - it makes me a 'Bungie supporter' or whatever. I know this, so I don't want to drag this out because in people's minds that will go through that filter anyway (maybe). I've made my modest points.

I always knew you were a plant. Long con by Bungie.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I always knew you were a plant. Long con by Bungie.

Hey - a free stack of 5 strange coins is nothing to snigger at.

 

[JohnOfMars]

The April update features how many new emotes? A dozen? Maybe more? But they didn't have enough time and resources to actually fix or even address Sunsingers? What about the exploit on Frontier map? The priority for Bungie, BASED on what they have shown is the bottom line. Which that's fine. It's business. I get it. Funny how in Y1 it didn't feel like that.

Disagree. Year 1 felt like that, too! That's why it took 5 months to get the Heavy Ammo glitch fixed. FIVE MONTHS! That's why there were no updates to the game from HoW to Taken King, just a "preview".

And don't forget, there are no more planned updates to the game until the Fall Expansion. This is it for Year 2.

These are the kinds of things I talk about when I say Bungie's focus isn't on the live game. It isn't even for this April release. They're only focusing on what makes money: big releases (which are the Year 1 bottom line) and microtransactions (the Year 2 bottom line).

It's time to acknowledge that this is how Bungie runs Destiny, and that isn't going to change.

 

[LTWood12]

Speaking of that...what happened with Luke anyways? I was sort of off gaf for a long while and he was here, and then not.

Probably a combination of him not having anything to say about anything coming remotely soon, and the descent into cynicism far beyond even hard mode Crota. I imagine Luke is working on things we won't see until the fall at the earliest, and quite possibly later than that. And he knows people will hang on and analyze every word, so I'm sure the prospect of possibly coming across the wrong way makes it not worth posting right now. I don't fault him for it at all, but I do miss it.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Probably a combination of him not having anything to say about anything coming remotely soon, and the descent into cynicism far beyond even hard mode Crota. I imagine Luke is working on things we won't see until the fall at the earliest, and quite possibly later than that. And he knows people will hang on and analyze every word, so I'm sure the prospect of possibly coming across the wrong way makes it not worth posting right now. I don't fault him for it at all, but I do miss it.

Oh ok.

Glad he is still with them. I wasn't sure what his absence meant and that maybe I missed some bad news or something.

 

[Ghazi]

I disagree. Bungie has programmed us this way based on communication and how they have changed the game.

The April update features how many new emotes? A dozen? Maybe more? But they didn't have enough time and resources to actually fix or even address Sunsingers? What about the exploit on Frontier map? The priority for Bungie, BASED on what they have shown is the bottom line. Which that's fine. It's business. I get it. Funny how in Y1 it didn't feel like that.

Time or resources are clearly not the issue, Grant made it clear on stream yesterday that they don't think anything else needs to be done with Sunsingers right now. Whether you agree or disagree with that is up to you (I personally think some aspects of the class need to be adjusted), but don't pretend like they are just ignoring it. Frontier needs to be fixed, shadestep needs to be fixed, and it's bad those are not things they're talking about. I imagine those are things they don't want to potentially draw attention to before they're fixed, though, so we'll see if they fix them next week.

 

[the_id]

I blame their game engine being difficult as a big part of them not being able to give the community what they feel the game really needs.

One would think giving extra vault space is straight forward but I wonder what they had to do to get that space.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

I miss Luke, too. He is really missing out on all the posts calling him and his coworkers trash and calling for them to be fired.

I have a feeling if Bungie employees were treated like human beings rather than bungling stewards of everyone's free time and there was more substantive criticism instead of manic pessimism, we might actually see them around here.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Maintenance extended for another hour

 

[Lnkn52]

Maintenance extended for another hour

Check the group chat.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

I know how that can look - it makes me a 'Bungie supporter' or whatever. I know this, so I don't want to drag this out because in people's minds that will go through that filter anyway (maybe). I've made my modest points.

That's not an issue for me and that's not how I see your posts Tyler. On the contrary, I appreciate you pushing for more positive feedback. Regardless of your relationship with the developers, that doesn't mean your opinion should have any less merit in my eyes. At the very least, I appreciate you challenging the notion that we don't always need to be negative about a game we all love.

Time or resources are clearly not the issue, Grant made it clear on stream yesterday that they don't think anything else needs to be done with Sunsingers right now. Whether you agree or disagree with that is up to you (I personally think some aspects of the class need to be adjusted), but don't pretend like they are just ignoring it. Frontier needs to be fixed, shadestep needs to be fixed, and it's bad those are not things they're talking about. I imagine those are things they don't want to potentially draw attention to before they're fixed, though, so we'll see if they fix them next week.

That's fair. I should have made my point better. Basically it all comes down to the same thing for me. I feel like I am playing a much different game because most people I play with and most folks here see the issues with Sunsingers.

 

[FyreWulff]

I blame their game engine being difficult as a big part of them not being able to give the community what they feel the game really needs.

One would think giving extra vault space is straight forward but I wonder what they had to do to get that space.

Every engine is super complex these days, and it depends on how the game handles it. Not every game handles player inventory the same way, because they may have different needs. Like, some games just load the list when it's pulled up. Some need all the items to reside in memory for scripting engine purposes. Also, if you reserve RAM to store the inventory array more than you need, you can never get it back later if you change your mind. And it might require updates to the UI subsystem to support the changes.

That's what happened with the vault changes before in Destiny. They added a few slots within the existing parameters with a hotfix, then said a more substantial upgrade was coming later (Taken King). Since it probably required a lot of subsystems to be touched, it was better to shunt a vault subsystem overhaul into benefitting from all the engine work going into Taken King 2.x engine upgrades than waste time adding it to the 1.x branch - and they also found spare RAM on last gen to add the slots. So with this update they've probably optimized the engine even more and added the extra slots.

I've personally thought the "engine is difficult" stuff was overblown because every engine has it's 'oh god why is it set up this way'. Doesn't matter if it's custom or licensed. Source sucks at having a bunch of dynamic objects. Unreal doesn't handle changing objects on the fly very well. Hell, a game I made requires 15 minutes minimum to compile changes to it, because the way the game works I have to compile the entire game's scripts even if I change only one.

So yeah, while back in the day adding inventory space was changing a variable, in modern AAA development everything touches everything and can crash everything and the engines are millions of lines of code and there are literally bugs that will occur from the compiler doing something wrong and not the humans. So you have to have bug triage levels and branch management to even make these games creatable.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Check the group chat.

I love you

 

[LTWood12]

I miss Luke, too. He is really missing out on all the posts calling him and his coworkers trash and calling for them to be fired.

I have a feeling if Bungie employees were treated like human beings rather than bungling stewards of everyone's free time and there was more substantive criticism instead of manic pessimism, we might actually see them around here.

I'd argue those sorts of inflammatory posts are quite rare, but they do stand out. There's no defense for that sort of thing.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I miss Luke, too. He is really missing out on all the posts calling him and his coworkers trash and calling for them to be fired.

I have a feeling if Bungie employees were treated like human beings rather than bungling stewards of everyone's free time and there was more substantive criticism instead of manic pessimism, we might actually see them around here.

Really? This is the kind of stuff going on since I set the game aside? God dammit.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

That's not an issue for me and that's not how I see your posts Tyler. On the contrary, I appreciate you pushing for more positive feedback. Regardless of your relationship with the developers, that doesn't mean your opinion should have any less merit in my eyes. At the very least, I appreciate you challenging the notion that we don't always need to be negative about a game we all love.

Much appreciated wet monkey man!

 

[Kadey]

Half of the people in here are bipolar. One minute you've quit the game, the next minute you're praising how awesome the game is and how fun it is to play with certain people, next minute you're crying about how Bungie doesn't care and it's the last straw, etc. Make up your minds.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Really? This is the kind of stuff going on since I set the game aside? God dammit.

Not too often. Other members and especially own own Mr. Rogers, Dr. Drizzay, have been good about calling those posts out and saying they're not okay.

Don't worry, Ghal.

Half of the people in here are bipolar. One minute you've quit the game, the next minute you're praising how awesome the game is and how fun it is to play with certain people, next minute you're crying about how Bungie doesn't care and it's the last straw, etc. Make up your minds.

Touche, Kadey.
Touche.

 

[E92 M3]

Really? This is the kind of stuff going on since I set the game aside? God dammit.

No, that's grossly exaggerated.

 

[Lnkn52]

Half of the people in here are bipolar. One minute you've quit the game, the next minute you're praising how awesome the game is and how fun it is to play with certain people, next minute you're crying about how Bungie doesn't care and it's the last straw, etc. Make up your minds.

I see that in every thread, not just this OT. Must be a gamer/human thing. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[mehrmantrout]

I've never seen anything overtly bad, saying Deej isn't very good at his job and someone else should replace him is fair comment

Most of the salt has stemmed from Warlock/Firebolt chat but now thats settled people need to just.......