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[chur]

How often would hardcore players be able to kill a named NPC in the Division? I'm trying to figure out what the equivalent would be if Bungie did something similar. Would it be like having a guaranteed legendary drop after every Crucible match or Heroic Strike?

 

[WipedOut]

Bungie needs to implement Massive changes to its loot drop rates.

Yep, reward the player

How often would hardcore players be able to kill a named NPC in the Division? I'm trying to figure out what the equivalent would be if Bungie did something similar. Would it be like having a guaranteed legendary drop after every Crucible match or Heroic Strike?

Darkzone, you can go through out the entire place and kill at least 10 Named NPC's and then wait for respawn, Your backpack holds 9 items so you would have to evac at some point though. With a good group it takes around 15 minutes to run an easy challenge. So dark zone is now more rewarding but you run the risk of getting ganked by rogues and have them still your stuff.,

 

[Darknyss09]

Bungie is too busy hiring Behavioral Psychologists and treating their game like a social experiment to implement anything like this. Their main goal is to reward people 'just enough' so they'll keep coming back.

 

[WipedOut]

Bungie is too busy hiring Behavioral Psychologists and treating their game like a social experiment to implement anything like this. Their main goal is to reward people 'just enough' so they'll keep coming back.

Dark, you up for reset shenanigans tonight? Russian Consulate.

 

[Kaiken]

while we're at it:

Also going to retry our attempt at HM Warpriest at 8:30PM EST Tonight.

1. Dreamgazer
2. Dthomp
3. Shiv
4. Gears (?)
5. Kaikken
6.

Dthomp and Shiv are a little rusty on raids, so any high-light people that want to help out would be great.

Count me in. Anyone willing to do PoE Skolas after? I need to check this off my bucket list!

 

[mehrmantrout]

I started looking up the Antinomy and remembered the raid sniper. The Yasmin will be the new go-to.

Pretty much confirmed it will rez snipe 2m52 minutes ago
@xHizzlex @DeeJ_BNG @lars_bakken yes. We meant to mention that. Not all, but more snipers for sure.

The Yasmin is the same stats as the Antinomy and Tamar but you can roll PvP perks with them

 

[chur]

Yep, reward the player



Darkzone, you can go through out the entire place and kill at least 10 Named NPC's and then wait for respawn, Your backpack holds 9 items so you would have to evac at some point though. With a good group it takes around 15 minutes to run an easy challenge. So dark zone is now more rewarding but you run the risk of getting ganked by rogues and have them still your stuff.,

How long does it take enemies to respawn in DZ?

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

You could argue that, yes. But then why would they constantly say they want to reward players more?

The players seem to be asking for it— just look at posts here and on Reddit and comparisons to the Division (which has very dissimilar gameplay).

With more solid gameplay mechanics, netcode improvements, and a focus on creating better maps, they would retain the playerbase far better than just increasing the number of rewards given.

I would like this.

My biggest complaint about the loot system is that you're shit-out-of-luck or in for a grind if you really want a particular aesthetic with particular perks.

I wish the less powerful perks didn't feel like they were rolled at the expense of ones I want. e.g. Counterbalance vs firefly, not exhumed. RNG that produces gear a person might actually want. I think sidearms, of all things, mostly feel like this.

Sometimes I wish blue gear could be infused. There are some good blue rolls, and some of the blue armour is less ugly than available legendaries (the hunter's bog chest piece looks like a Pinterest hot-glue-gun autumn massacre).

 

[spyder_ur]

Bungie is too busy hiring Behavioral Psychologists and treating their game like a social experiment to implement anything like this. Their main goal is to reward people 'just enough' so they'll keep coming back.

To be fair, they've been successful at that so I can understand their thinking. We'll see if Division can do the same after the rush of this loot wears off. I'm not expecting much out of incursions.

 

[WipedOut]

How long does it take enemies to respawn in DZ?

Not 100% sure but I think about every 15 minutes

 

[ocean]

I think it's more like they're used to making games for people who like playing the game instead of getting imaginary treasures. You don't need a "reward" to keep playing Halo or CoD or whatever, you just have to like the game itself and you'll log on to shoot people.

Destiny has very, very strongly hinted that this is its focus. Literally every element of its design screams "don't expect drops to happen or you'll leave disappointed", but many hang on...

If you can't justify logging on just because playing some matches is fun, I really think the game just isn't for you. If every Dreg I killed gave me an Exotic or whatever it is people want, I don't think it'd make the game any better or worse tbh. Loot is extremely irrelevant after you've played for a few weeks and have everything you need (or a few months and you have everything you could even want).

 

[stay gold]

Are we getting full patch notes today?

 

[Lee]

Are we getting full patch notes today?

Nope. https://twitter.com/DeeJ_BNG/status/717818128659587073

 

[Trakan]

Pretty much confirmed it will rez snipe 2m52 minutes ago
@xHizzlex @DeeJ_BNG @lars_bakken yes. We meant to mention that. Not all, but more snipers for sure.

The Yasmin is the same stats as the Antinomy and Tamar but you can roll PvP perks with them

The only good perk the Antinomy can roll for PVP is snapshot. It does have more range though.

I think the Yasmin's hot swap is pretty good for PVP myself. Cocoon and life support are also better than what the Antinomy can get IMO.

I also forgot about the Stillpiercer. That's a high impact sniper that will remain the same.

 

[MythicReclaimer]

How often would hardcore players be able to kill a named NPC in the Division? I'm trying to figure out what the equivalent would be if Bungie did something similar. Would it be like having a guaranteed legendary drop after every Crucible match or Heroic Strike?

You can run the story missions on Hard and now get a guaranteed High-end drop. You can run the Challenging missions and get a guaranteed High-end drop from the boss and another High-end drop just from completing the mission. Then there's the DZ with respawning named bosses. Gold, gold, gold be everywhere...

 

[Mass Appeal]

Are we getting full patch notes today?

I think we are only getting the weapon balancing notes today. Hopefully we don't have another .004 situation....

 

[Lee]

Basically this would be like an exotic dropping from every strike boss, guaranteed. Doo It Bungie.

But every exotic is the same when it comes to rolls (aside from armor, but you can already re-roll for perfect stats if you want to) and Destiny end-game players (who Massive is catering to with these changes) already have every exotic. Would be better to just increase legendary drop rates, with an even 50/50 split between weapons and armor, as opposed to the 5/95 split that seems to be present now.

Plus, to be fair, three of coins basically created a 20% exotic drop chance for almost all bosses. While far from the 100% Division is getting, that was a pretty significant boost from Bungie with TTK.

 

[BoBoThunder]

Destiny has very, very strongly hinted that this is its focus. Literally every element of its design screams "don't expect drops to happen or you'll leave disappointed", but many hang on...

Couldn't agree more. I never got Hawkmoon in Y1, played VoG almost every week. My gift from Bungie when Y2 hit...Hawkmoon. Never got it again. Still need the necrocasm from the Crota Raid

 

[Darknyss09]

Dark, you up for reset shenanigans tonight? Russian Consulate.

Yeah, I can hop on for a quick CM at reset.

To be fair, they've been successful at that so I can understand their thinking. We'll see if Division can do the same after the rush of this loot wears off. I'm not expecting much out of incursions.

Successful in cultivating a salty user base?

I think we are only getting the weapon balancing notes today. Hopefully we don't have another .004 situation....

I was shocked that there wasn't a decimal joke during the stream. But then again, it might have meant that they'd need to scrap one of the room-temperature water bits.

 

[Jinjo]

I think we are only getting the weapon balancing notes today. Hopefully we don't have another .004 situation....

Pretty sure that's gonna happen with AR's lol. 0.002 as to not put them back entirely. Baby changes.

Either way, excited about all the changes. Except for the life of me I can't understand NOT touching firebolt. It didn't stop them back then from completely nerfing Hunter arc bolt nades. Those were less of an annoyance/issue than firebolt ever was.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Couldn't agree more. I never got Hawkmoon in Y1, played VoG almost every week. My gift from Bungie when Y2 hit...Hawkmoon. Never got it again. Still need the necrocasm from the Crota Raid

Does Nami cry every time someone mentions the Necrocasm even if he isn't here?

OT - I also noticed lots of folks using weapons from the stream while doing Shaxx bounties last night. Perhaps the casual player base really is out of touch in some regard.

 

[chur]

I think it's more like they're used to making games for people who like playing the game instead of getting imaginary treasures. You don't need a "reward" to keep playing Halo or CoD or whatever, you just have to like the game itself and you'll log on to shoot people.

Destiny has very, very strongly hinted that this is its focus. Literally every element of its design screams "don't expect drops to happen or you'll leave disappointed", but many hang on...

If you can't justify logging on just because playing some matches is fun, I really think the game just isn't for you. If every Dreg I killed gave me an Exotic or whatever it is people want, I don't think it'd make the game any better or worse tbh. Loot is extremely irrelevant after you've played for a few weeks and have everything you need (or a few months and you have everything you could even want).

I've been playing for months and I don't have everything I want though.

 

[Mass Appeal]

I think it's more like they're used to making games for people who like playing the game instead of getting imaginary treasures. You don't need a "reward" to keep playing Halo or CoD or whatever, you just have to like the game itself and you'll log on to shoot people.

Destiny has very, very strongly hinted that this is its focus. Literally every element of its design screams "don't expect drops to happen or you'll leave disappointed", but many hang on...

If you can't justify logging on just because playing some matches is fun, I really think the game just isn't for you. If every Dreg I killed gave me an Exotic or whatever it is people want, I don't think it'd make the game any better or worse tbh. Loot is extremely irrelevant after you've played for a few weeks and have everything you need (or a few months and you have everything you could even want).

That can easily be fixed though by adding tons more exotics and new legendaries to the game. Instead we get the minimal amount with each update.

The gameplay in Destiny is amazing no doubt. No other fps shooter this gen comes close imo. I understand where you're coming from on that front and how that's their focus but if that were true where are our dedicated servers? Why did they go against the community and implement that crappy SBMM system? Or the whole .004 fiasco? Why do we not have custom games yet?

The lag has been a big issue in this game for a while now and if that were their focus on logging on and enjoying the gameplay, we would have had all these issues resolved.

 

[spyder_ur]

Yeah, I can hop on for a quick CM at reset.


Successful in cultivating a salty user base?


I was shocked that there wasn't a decimal joke during the stream. But then again, it might have meant that they'd need to scrap one of the room-temperature water bits.

Are there any non-salty user bases? Destiny has been out for 18 months and through the length of the game has generally been the most talked about and popular game. People do keep coming back. That might change at some point, but it hasn't yet.

Those jokes were so, so bad.

 

[JohnOfMars]

I think it's more like they're used to making games for people who like playing the game instead of getting imaginary treasures. You don't need a "reward" to keep playing Halo or CoD or whatever, you just have to like the game itself and you'll log on to shoot people.

I wonder about that. Destiny is in this really painful in-between point. It's not an arena shooter because it has loot, but it doesn't have enough loot or RPG to be good at that either.

I am happiest when I have all the gear I'm using, not when I'm hunting. So yeah, like Halo.

Destiny has very, very strongly hinted that this is its focus. Literally every element of its design screams "don't expect drops to happen or you'll leave disappointed", but many hang on...

Destiny has some serious schizophrenia here, though. The reward rate is abysmal, but there are weekly lockouts, rare drops, RNG on everything. They put crack cocaine levels of addictive mechanics in the game and then wonder why people won't leave.

Besides all that, Destiny has just enough loot to slow you down, especially with LL when you can get everything you want but it's too low of a level.

Loot is extremely irrelevant after you've played for a few weeks and have everything you need (or a few months and you have everything you could even want).

Two things:

This is true and it's Destiny's success: no matter how broken every other part of the game is, the gameplay in Destiny is truly amazing.
But I've played for 650 hours and there's tons of gear and loot I don't have, but want. If Bungie really is okay with us playing other games, then they should let us get what we want.

Are there any non-salty user bases?

Diablo 3. Started out saltier than anything, but the devs have been awesome making changes and the community has rallied behind them. It's 4 years old and still gets tons of free live updates. New content, new systems, new loot. Devs are active in talkign to the community. No microtransactions.

 

[E92 M3]

That can easily be fixed though by adding tons more exotics and new legendaries to the game. Instead we get the minimal amount with each update.

The gameplay in Destiny is amazing no doubt. No other fps shooter this gen comes close imo. I understand where you're coming from on that front and how that's their focus but if that were true where are our dedicated servers? Why did they go against the community and implement that crappy SBMM system? Or the whole .004 fiasco? Why do we not have custom games yet?

The lag has been a big issue in this game for a while now and if that were their focus on logging on and enjoying the gameplay, we would have had all these issues resolved.

Yeah, even a powerhouse like Treyarch reversed their SBMM changes after community outcry. Bungie just super stubborn and thinks it's either their way or highway.

 

[WipedOut]

Yeah, even a powerhouse like Treyarch reversed their SBMM changes after community outcry. Bungie just super stubborn and thinks it's either their way or highway.

Well it is their game and their vision

 

[E92 M3]

Well it is their game and their vision

A game that's dependent on people playing. Without customers they wouldn't have a valid product. Any smart business will listen to their customers and try to make the right changes.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Show me once where Bungie has posted something like this:

As many of you pointed out in the past weeks, the end result does not provide the level of fun that we had hoped for.

To address the situation, and simply make End-Game more satisfying and more focused towards improving your build one piece at a time, we will be implementing a series of changes with update 1.1,

Balancing an online game is no easy task, and while we believe that these changes are a step in the right direction for the future of the game, we will keep monitoring the situation and address what needs to be modified. But more than that, we will have an eye on all aspects of your experience, and balance things when needed. Sometimes it means making hard decisions that might not be appreciated, and when this happens we will make sure to give you the visibility you need to understand why these decisions are made.


Your feedback is very valuable to us, so keep the discussions going, we will be reading!

I don't want to compare Division to Destiny as they have their similarities but also their differences, but you can see where one developer is pro-player base and the other is not.

 

[mehrmantrout]

A game that's dependent on people playing. Without customers they wouldn't have a valid product. Any smart business will listen to their customers and try to make the right changes.

Exactly, even if they didn't have much of a product to push this year they could still have done a whole lot more. Upping the drop rates, bi-monthly tweaks to weapons, more player friendly communication/interaction etc etc.. Instead we've had in effect the middle finger from them

 

[MildSoss]

I don't want to compare Division to Destiny as they have their similarities but also their differences, but you can see where one developer is pro-player base and the other is not.

Yup, the division and destiny are very different games in the end but the way Massive has handled community feedback so far has been great. They're not perfect but they sure do seem like it when compared to Bungie.

 

[WipedOut]

A game that's dependent on people playing. Without customers they wouldn't have a valid product. Any smart business will listen to their customers and try to make the right changes.

I'm not disagreeing with you just stating a fact that they hold steady to this belief that they want you to play the game the way they want you to.

 

[JohnOfMars]

Exactly, even if they didn't have much of a product to push this year they could still have done a whole lot more. Upping the drop rates, bi-monthly tweaks to weapons, more player friendly communication/interaction etc etc.. Instead we've had in effect the middle finger from them

DeeJ's boss has 1656 weapon parts....

(No, I won't let that go.)

 

[mehrmantrout]

DeeJ's boss has 1656 weapon parts....

(No, I won't let that go.)

Lol, case (or person) in point.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

DeeJ's boss has 1656 weapon parts....

(No, I won't let that go.)

Sorry..this is a big deal, why?

 

[E92 M3]

I'm not disagreeing with you just stating a fact that they hold steady to this belief that they want you to play the game the way they want you to.

Yeah, it's a stubbornness that really frustrates me.

Exactly, even if they didn't have much of a product to push this year they could still have done a whole lot more. Upping the drop rates, bi-monthly tweaks to weapons, more player friendly communication/interaction etc etc.. Instead we've had in effect the middle finger from them

The problem is that people continue to play so nothing changes. Destiny is a game I love, but it can be so much more with some minor changes.

Sorry..this is a big deal, why?

While it's essentially a harmless joke, observing all of the circumstances around it, leads to Bungie just perpetuating the idea that the player's desire simply don't matter.

 

[Mass Appeal]

Sorry..this is a big deal, why?

I think it's when the community wanted a way to buy weapon parts before the gunsmith started selling them, Deej said aquiring weapon parts In the game were not a problem(they were) because he said his boss had that many....

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Sorry..this is a big deal, why?

I don't want to speak for John...but it felt like Bungie was saying "This is our game. We do what we want. Just because you play it doesn't mean you have control over what we do. Don't expect us to change anything because you said say so" and basically read to me as
"Well my boss doesn't have this problem...but you guys cry enough so here you go"

and then here's a dog or something

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I think it's when the community wanted a way to buy weapon parts before the gunsmith started selling them, Deej said aquiring weapon parts In the game were not a problem(they were) because he said his boss had that many....

Ah, I see.

I never 'got' the whole weapon parts issue. I've always had an abundance, and was careful not to re-roll things to put myself into weapon parts poverty. So much stuff drops that gets deleted and I get weapon parts from that, I never have to buy them.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I don't want to speak for John...but it felt like Bungie was saying "This is our game. We do what we want. Just because you play it doesn't mean you have control over what we do. Don't expect us to change anything because you said say so" and basically read to me as
"Well my boss doesn't have this problem...but you guys cry enough so here you go"

and then here's a dog or something

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

 

[WipedOut]

Ah, I see.

I never 'got' the whole weapon parts issue. I've always had an abundance, and was careful not to re-roll things to put myself into weapon parts poverty. So much stuff drops that gets deleted and I get weapon parts from that, I never have to buy them.

I had a shitton on xbox but as a new player for a very long time they were a bottle neck for me. Armor parts are not as bad.. yet but I have to think carefully what I spend them on because I don't have an unlimited supply or an easy way to procure them.

And what the hell was all that room temperature water BS about. It just comes across bad when they do stuff like that. It felt like they were forcefully trying to be funny.

 

[E92 M3]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

Infusion is something that should have been done much earlier, and right now it seems that microtransaction armor is the main reasoning for it.

But yeah, it's a much needed change.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

This is a fair point and something worthwhile of discussion. I can be salty at times and have been trying to be a more positive beacon when talking about Destiny. For me, it feels like they still have a very serious disconnect from the community in terms of what most people actually need/want from playing the game. I think that's where a lot of the negativity comes from.

Edit: The infusion changes are a good thing, but it's hard to talk about that when we are having PvP changes make drastic changes to the PvE portion of the game. The good they do doesn't often outweigh the bad and that's a huge problem. For me personally, it feels like Bungie plays a much different game than I do.

Edit 2: Not to mention they have designed loot and microtransactions in such a way that they are selling armor now...I was fine with at first but now...not so much. Yeah, you have to still play the game to level it up...but these are things that could have been tied to a cool quest or something to work for.

 

[the_id]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

This sums up my thoughts exactly. I'll reserve judgement and saltiness AFTER I have put enough time into the updated game.

 

[Axoman]

T
For me personally, it feels like Bungie plays a much different game than I do.

They do! It's called spreadsheets and data collecting!

 

[xplicitone]

You can't compare destiny to cod or halo because it's a loot based game with a seperate PvP mode. Loot is obviously Key.

You can play Halo and cod without ever touching single player.

2 totally different games. Most people play those for multi-player experiences only

 

[BoBoThunder]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

That is true. I've been on here for months, practically begging Bungie to do something with PoE. They do it and I'm here complaining about glowing gear. I'm happy they are bringing something to PvE. I'll try to reserve my salt until after it comes out.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

The problem is almost every single patch has been 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

Everytime they do something right, they surround it with 2 or 3 other decisions that make no sense to us, and seem to be easily pointed out as a bad experience for the player.

Honestly, I think the thing Bungie does the worst is not publicly talk about bugs in their own game. It's like they're afraid that if they admit to the game being broken in parts that they're admitting defeat in some way.

Look at the current nightstalker shadestep glitch. As far as I know, we've not heard a peep from Bungie about it. Why? Do they think we'll be upset with them for acknowledging that there is a problem? And this goes all the way back. The Heavy Ammo glitch was around for like 6 months, and Bungie only addressed it after month 4, and only because it was on the front page of Reddit for 2 months straight.

These are things that really could only work out in their favor. Players know the bugs are there no matter what. Bungie addressing them at leasts lets the playerbase know that Bungie considers it a problem as well. Not addressing the problems creates tension, and makes players feel like there is a huge disconnect between dev and community.

Things Bungie should really have been more open about with us:

• Is Iron Banner Loot broken again?
• What's the status on the Shadestep glitch?
• Will there be a fix for the New Monarchy ship triggering the new mail icon?
• Whats the status on the Firefly bug that causes the game to crash?
• Why do my items resort themselves seemingly at random?
• What efforts are being made to counter DDoS PvPers? Have people been banned for this? How many?
• What's going on with Melee's not registering since TTK launched?

The bolded items have been issues since TTK launched, and yet have no acknowledgement from Bungie. What are we, the community, supposed to think about that?

 

[TheTylerDurden]

This is a fair point and something worthwhile of discussion. I can be salty at times and have been trying to be a more positive beacon when talking about Destiny. For me, it feels like they still have a very serious disconnect from the community in terms of what most people actually need/want from playing the game. I think that's where a lot of the negativity comes from.

Edit: The infusion changes are a good thing, but it's hard to talk about that when we are having PvP changes make drastic changes to the PvE portion of the game. The good they do doesn't often outweigh the bad and that's a huge problem. For me personally, it feels like Bungie plays a much different game than I do.

Sure, but that's the filter that changes usually go through. What you just said.

Good thing X usually gets overshadowed by unpopular thing Y.

I don't like being res sniped. I think it's a rather cheap thing, tbh. This update on paper makes it look like res sniping will get easier, not harder.

But will the increased rarity of special ammo in pvp and the change to sniper rifles balance that out? Even though res sniping might be easier, will it be viable? I don't know, I am going to play to find out.

Do I think this change offsets infusion, even if this change is a detriment to me? I don't believe it will, and I don't really look at it that way anyways.

The infusion change is going to benefit me immediately and quickly with the gear I equip that I use all the time.

People are saying they want more rewards. The silvery treasure packages are going to be easy to get - that's a new reward. No one talking about it.

But I totally get your point. The reason we are where we are now is because of everything that's been said and done up to this point. But are we now at a point of no return where the salt will flow mighty and strong just because the running list of 'bad' can never be erased or overshadowed by the list of 'good'?

 

[mehrmantrout]

I have to agree that if that's the impression left, then that's not a very savvy way for the point to be made.

But I wonder if we're now in a bit of a mode where Bungie can do no 'right' by the community. There does seem to be an amplification effect of whatever they say getting blown up a fair bit. Some of it deserved, some of it is just 'pile on' mentality.

The good things happening don't get as much play as the things people aren't receiving well. One small example, infusion.

The April update makes such a huge and player friendly change to infusion, and yet it's not getting a lot of discussion. It takes away so much of the grind and gives you so much more flexibility to what you can do.

A fair point but the infusion change rolls around after 6 months of us having to put up with the old system and its not really going to make any difference now unless you want to spend money on MT's, so you could argue the change has been made not for our benefit but theres to encourage player spending

Nearly everything good they've done is a complete 180 of a practice that fucked the player base over. If they quickly acknowledged mistakes and rectified them they'd get a free pass but they leave things in place for far too long, thus making the community maximum salty/tired of the game/them. The SBMM debacle is another prime example

Edit; @Kor, the shadestep glitch is supposedly fixed