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[Deleted member 17706]

After reading this, I'd just like to say you sir are a fucking idiot and earn the honor of being the first on my ignore list!

Seriously? I disagree with most of what Mujun posted, but goddamn, do you act this way to anyone who has a wildly different opinion than your own?

 

[Stallion Free]

Cloak is pretty much required in some parts if you want to beat the game without ever setting anyone into "hostile" status.

 

[boredofcanada]

i really love saving in places where I have impossible odds of surviving and challenging myself to see how I get out of it. I always get out of it. It's the most amazing thing, really.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I already explained it, I said cloaking is largely useless because it does not grant you anything that is required to progress but it has a huge downside to being unable to use a take down if activated.

This makes using cloak and take downs together mutually exclusive...just as I said (strangely enough you said so yourself as well being as how you have to hide and wait for regen...). This is why most active augs are useless. Because they provide minimal benefit with a huge downside to not being able to use a take down. It takes less time to simply walk somewhere sneaky and have a takedown in your back pocket, than it is to zerg across the room cloaked and then being unable to use one.

Cloaking was the first thing I maxed out after hacking, I know how worthless it use (still good for tiny bursts to get through lasers if one is lazy).

My plan realized how useless augs are with only one cell that regenerates. The games difficulty and AI combined with the energy issue makes most if not all active augments worthless.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the existence of protein bars, boxes, and powder jugs? There are a ton of them in the game. They are the ammo for your energy consuming abilities.

 

[DualShadow]

It's really annoying how when you turn bots/turrents on enemies how it puts you into alarmed/hostile status.

 

[Wallach]

Cloak is fantastic. I'm not sure how much better it is supposed to be, it even lets you walk through the dang laser traps. I just left the second hub and I've used it plenty.

It's really annoying how when you turn bots/turrents on enemies how it puts you into alarmed/hostile status.

Yeah, this is kind of dumb.

 

[Hawkian]

It's really annoying how when you turn bots/turrents on enemies how it puts you into alarmed/hostile status.

I don't get it, why would this not make enemies hostile?

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Can you reach the ladder? I had to jump on a crate to get the button prompt for one ladder.

Just needed another reloading. Weird bug.

 

[Wallach]

I don't get it, why would this not make enemies hostile?

Why would they be hostile towards someone they don't know exists instead of just the thing now shooting at them?

 

[JohngPR]

Was someone asking for this earlier in the thread?

 

[Bread]

i really love saving in places where I have impossible odds of surviving and challenging myself to see how I get out of it. I always get out of it. It's the most amazing thing, really.

ahhh that's what I'm doing now, I'm at the part where the

Spoiler

soldiers come for the dutch guy in the pod complex place. i fucking love video game situations like this where there are so many ways to escape, it gets my dick hard.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Cloaking has a huge benefit, necessary or no.

Cool, still mutually exclusive...

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the existence of protein bars, boxes, and powder jugs? There are a ton of them in the game. They are the ammo for your energy consuming abilities.

I don't discount their existence and I have no problem with their existence. I have a problem with a blatantly shitty game mechanic that a single regening cell is. Half of the aug tree is ENTIRELY useless, yet a fundamental skill that recharges more than a single battery does not exist?

And there is simply no reason for take downs to likewise consume energy. You should simply have melee in the game. Make hand blades an augment that allows you to back stab. Make an augment that creates a built in tazer with your first. What possibly benefit is there to making you sit and regen energy before you can backstab again? You can headshot any mob instantly undetectably easily... So added difficulty is not a concern its just a layer of unneeded tedium.

I guess if you find sitting in a corner waiting for regen to occur for 50% of the game its not an issue that is your opinion. My opinion is that its some shoddy design.

Cloak is fantastic.

Gives away your position, you can sneak just as well if not better with no augments and no power consumption, you cannot do a take down at will. I used it for laser webs and when I got too bored to headshot/sneak by 30 mobs that pose no threat to me.

 

[thetrin]

Cloaking is insanely useful. I hate saying this, but if you think it's useless, you're using it incorrectly.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I guess if you find sitting in a corner waiting for regen to occur for 50% of the game its not an issue that is your opinion. My opinion is that its some shoddy design.

I didn't encounter this situation because I ate the damn protein bars.

 

[branny]

Sadly those choices do not matter due to the horrible AI and level design and single cell energy regen (makes a majority of the augs worthless) and cover system (essentially teleport while transitioning between cover). You are never forced to adapt to anything because the AI is that bad. Choices are largely superfluous at best and illusionary at worst.

On the hardest difficulty I could kill any amount of enemies in any situation with any weapon. It feels unfinished, and while its certainly a fun game I do not believe it deserves the praise its getting. And the ending is very anticlimactic.

After awhile I started murdering everyone because I was getting bored and sneaking isnt any more difficult it is just way more tedious. Maybe someone can mod it into a good Shadowrun game or something.

What? The energy regen on the first cell does not make "a majority" of augs worthless. (And neither does it inherently make "a majority" of active augs worthless.) That's like calling a paintbrush worthless because you're not a painter. The main problem with augs in this game is that a few aren't exactly worth choosing over others early on (and even less are better off left alone).

You're forced to adapt all the time if you're attempting to play a certain way: lethal, nonlethal, no encounter/no alarm, only melee, only tossing/throwing, etc. Even pure guns blazing will force you to consider ammo and weaponry management at one point or another. Popping up from behind cover to headshot with a silenced pistol ad infinitum still involves adapting to shifting situations, albeit less so once enemies swarm you. It's understandable that these choices may be superfluous to you, but there is a decent amount of design in place to support how others might want to tackle things. Regardless, in what world is being able to handle enemies on a harder difficulty a complaint? If you're saying that the game is too easy or abusable, that's a pretty strange way of wording it.

It's also fine to have a negative opinion of the ending(s), but they're sparking quite a few interesting conversations in the story spoiler thread.

Spoiler

Some are enjoying the realistic lack of closure, the reflection on the direction of humanity, the implications considering the state of our world today, and the fact that each radically different viewpoint has some degree of merit.

I already explained it, I said cloaking is largely useless because it does not grant you anything that is required to progress but it has a huge downside to being unable to use a take down if activated.

This makes using cloak and take downs together mutually exclusive...just as I said (strangely enough you said so yourself as well being as how you have to hide and wait for regen...). This is why most active augs are useless. Because they provide minimal benefit with a huge downside to not being able to use a take down. It takes less time to simply walk somewhere sneaky and have a takedown in your back pocket, than it is to zerg across the room cloaked and then being unable to use one.

...Zerging across the room while cloaked is not the same as sneaking up to someone and doing a takedown. In a room filled with enemies you have to get past, it's far less preferable to methodically perform takedowns/headshots without alerting any of them than it is to simply sneak by them while cloaking. And if it's a large room with no alternate route that leads to the same objective (and you don't want to set off alarms), you will probably need to have candybars on hand or an energy upgrade or two (or even silenced running/sprinting, sprint speed, rebreather, etc.) to sustain the energy required to clear it. You'll have to adjust depending on your build and the goal you have in mind.

I don't discount their existence and I have no problem with their existence. I have a problem with a blatantly shitty game mechanic that a single regening cell is. Half of the aug tree is ENTIRELY useless, yet a fundamental skill that recharges more than a single battery does not exist?

And there is simply no reason for take downs to likewise consume energy. You should simply have melee in the game. Make hand blades an augment that allows you to back stab. Make an augment that creates a built in tazer with your first. What possibly benefit is there to making you sit and regen energy before you can backstab again? You can headshot any mob instantly undetectably easily... So added difficulty is not a concern its just a layer of unneeded tedium.

I guess if you find sitting in a corner waiting for regen to occur for 50% of the game its not an issue that is your opinion. My opinion is that its some shoddy design.

Half of the aug tree is not useless--it is just useless to you. Takedowns consume energy because you otherwise would be able to run up to enemies and instakill everything in your path with little effort. You don't have to sit to regen energy; there are candybars to refill it if you don't want to wait or need it immediately. Waiting increases the chances of you getting caught or killed. It's called risk vs. reward.

I'm assuming by your posts that your primary objective was simply to make it through the game via any means necessary, possibly removing almost every enemy in your way. There's nothing wrong with that, but there are other ways to play. mujun did a good job of explaining how the game wasn't in line with certain expectations. Your reasoning, however, is really baffling.

It's really annoying how when you turn bots/turrents on enemies how it puts you into alarmed/hostile status.

Yeah, but if their crap is starting to attack them it makes sense that your cover would be blown because something's amiss. It's weird since I'm pretty sure it's the turret/robot turning hostile to begin with, haha.

Anyway, I agree with everyone's suggestions on adding more augs to support offensive builds (and even adding more augs in general). There are too many Praxis points available over the course of the game if you take the time to do everything, though some people would understandably consider that the reward. A skill tree system preventing access to strong augs once others are already taken would probably be better.

 

[Lostconfused]

Yeah I don't really know how you can have an argument here. I agree a couple of augs are almost useless but none of them consume energy.

 

[Zomba13]

Was someone asking for this earlier in the thread?

I never asked for this...

But I'll take it.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

That was an extremely fun pair to get.

 

[Papercuts]

The game would would be utterly broken if all the batteries regened, I have no idea why this is an argument. Full cloak gives you around 35 seconds of complete invisibility, all you would need to do is find a safe spot when you uncloak and wait, and that's more than enough time for that.

Gives away your position, you can sneak just as well if not better with no augments and no power consumption, you cannot do a take down at will. I used it for laser webs and when I got too bored to headshot/sneak by 30 mobs that pose no threat to me.

It doesn't give away your position.

Of course you can sneak just as well without it. BETTER? Again, max cloak, you can crouch walk through an entire hostile area easily. You can shortcut past a lot of encounters, and if you combine it with no sound you can sprint past people.

Why do you need to take down if you go invisible past everyone? A lot of times I used it to get behind someone then waited to be able to take them down. Works fine.

 

[Veezy]

has anybody figured out what the 13311tower.com is about?

BTW, game is amazing. Unless Uncharted 3 is fucking amazing, DX:HR is my GOTY.

 

[woober]

That was an extremely fun pair to get.

Does the Foxiest of the Hounds mean not having enemies being alarmed or hostile?

 

[Papercuts]

Does the Foxiest of the Hounds mean not having enemies being alarmed or hostile?

They can be both, they can just never get to a touch panel or something that actually alerts everyone of your presence.

 

[Stallion Free]

Does the Foxiest of the Hounds mean not having enemies being alarmed or hostile?

It's not super clear, but I did it without have any enemies in the hostile state. It is impossible to beat the game without anyone going into alert status because the game forces it at points.

 

[Wallach]

Does the Foxiest of the Hounds mean not having enemies being alarmed or hostile?

That doesn't matter, you just have to not actually trip any alarms. That means not letting a camera go into alarm status and not letting anyone trigger a wall alarm.

You can only really keep track of it yourself, as the Smooth Operator bonus is not very consistent even when meeting the above criteria.

 

[Laurentius]

So what's the word on mouse acceleration for this game? I have it turned off in Windows 7 (at least in the "mouse" section of the control panel) but I get some odd lag still with the mouse. There doesn't seem to be any "mouse smoothing" options. I don't seem to have the same problems when playing other games.

It's kind of annoying, heh.

 

[Mindlog]

Max out your inventory, lungs, silent sprint, and cloak.
Fill up on protein jugs.
Run through any level from start to finish.

If energy regenerated beyond one bar cloak and silence would break the game. Even on just one bar max sprint and cloak will let your run through large stretches of a level. I guarantee a cloak/sprint speed run will appear in due time. The game can be beaten rather quickly.

Someone filled me in on why I didn't get the Foxiest achievement. You are not allowed to break a certain wall when heading down to a certain 'large elevator.' Even if you don't see anyone trigger it someone will hit an alarm at the 'elevator' entrance. Foxiest is actually pretty easy to get it was just that one part that messed me up. I can confirm that setting turrets and robots to kill enemies will not ruin smooth operator status. I had plenty of enemies in a hostile state.

Oh and yeah... the typhoon is powerful.

 

[Treemonkeys]

Any ideas about the extra achievements? Steam says I have 11 left to unlock but it only actually shows 4. DLC probably?

 

[robotzombie]

Couple early game questions:

1. After the first sidequest where I have to go talk to the guy who's wife I saved during the first mission, he tells me to go meet someone and get discounts on weapons or something. Where is this person?

2. I'm in the middle of the police mission, and I got a call saying some girl wants to meet me in some alley, it doesn't show up as a sidequest. Where is this alley and what does this do?

 

[Coxswain]

No, there are hidden achievements. Most are for completing sidequests in a particular way (ie: In Motherly Ties,

Spoiler

don't give Megan's bracelet to her mother

, in Rotten Business

Spoiler

drop Chan off the roof instead of planting the drugs

, etc.). You can get all 49.

Couple early game questions:

1. After the first sidequest where I have to go talk to the guy who's wife I saved during the first mission, he tells me to go meet someone and get discounts on weapons or something. Where is this person?

2. I'm in the middle of the police mission, and I got a call saying some girl wants to meet me in some alley, it doesn't show up as a sidequest. Where is this alley and what does this do?

1. When you walk down the back alley in Detroit, you'll come to a basketball court. Across from the court is a building with a climbable fire escape ladder. Go up there, and look for a window you can open and crawl through. The merchant is inside the building.

2. The person you have to meet is in the northwest section of the map, east of the Chiron building and south of Derelict row. Look for a 'prostitute' who says something like, "Hey Jensen, long time no see."

 

[Mindlog]

Couple early game questions:

1. After the first sidequest where I have to go talk to the guy who's wife I saved during the first mission, he tells me to go meet someone and get discounts on weapons or something. Where is this person?

2. I'm in the middle of the police mission, and I got a call saying some girl wants to meet me in some alley, it doesn't show up as a sidequest. Where is this alley and what does this do?

1. I accidentally knocked that guy unconscious. Lost a good vendor

Spoiler

There is a fire escape to an apartment building that faces the basketball court. Climb it and the vendor is on the third floor.

2.

Spoiler

Directly in front (south) of the Baller Territory. When you pull up your map it will be near the top.

 

[robotzombie]

Thanks guys!

So are there points of no return for this kind of stuff? Like if I didnt pay attention to that message, could I just not find that girl and miss out on something?

 

[Laurentius]

So what's the word on mouse acceleration for this game? I have it turned off in Windows 7 (at least in the "mouse" section of the control panel) but I get some odd lag still with the mouse. There doesn't seem to be any "mouse smoothing" options. I don't seem to have the same problems when playing other games.

It's kind of annoying, heh.

Did some Googling, and apparently turning off VSync is supposed to help. Did that, and it did help a bit. But so much tearing. =( Even with Triple buffering on I was getting an unreasonable amount of tearing.

 

[Mindlog]

Thanks guys!

So are there points of no return for this kind of stuff? Like if I didnt pay attention to that message, could I just not find that girl and miss out on something?

Yes. They normally warn you in-game.

 

[Card Boy]

Any ideas about the extra achievements? Steam says I have 11 left to unlock but it only actually shows 4. DLC probably?

Alot of hidden achievements, must be a new Steam thing. Because hidden achievements used to have a locked achievement icon.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

What? The energy regen on the first cell does not make "a majority" of augs worthless. (And neither does it inherently make "a majority" of active augs worthless.)

Lets count the worthless. Stealth tree, legs beyond high jumping, eyes (can detect enemies through walls with the single radar upgrade), mini map (first radar upgrade is the only one that is valuable) everything involved in aiming while (there is absolutely no reason to EVER fire while moving around...), Fortify, hacking analysis, Implanted re-breather (there is maybe 1-2 instances this will be used)

You're forced to adapt all the time if you're attempting to play a certain way: lethal, nonlethal, no encounter/no alarm, only melee, only tossing/throwing, etc.

Strange I just killed enemies by the dozen by shooting them in the head while they ignored the piles of corpses at their feet.

Half of the aug tree is not useless--it is just useless to you. Takedowns consume energy because you otherwise would be able to run up to enemies and instakill everything in your path with little effort. You don't have to sit to regen energy; there are candybars to refill it if you don't want to wait or need it immediately. Waiting increases the chances of you getting caught or killed. It's called risk vs. reward.

Yes it is, I just gave a list. You can insta kill everything on your path with little effort regardless if you use takedowns or not... Its USELESS tedium.

Anyway, I agree with everyone's suggestions on adding more augs to support offensive builds (and even adding more augs in general).

Its not lack of augs that makes running and gunning being non-optimal. Its exp and cash rewards for not doing so. Its the stupid AI, cover system and rewards for stealth/hacking.

It doesn't give away your position.

Yes it does...unless crouching. And if you are crouching you will never NEED to be cloaked to get anywhere at the same speed...

 

[Jintor]

The other thing that pisses me off is that enemies auto-acquire you as a target the second a grenade explodes. Even if it's a gas grenade where they immediately choke to death, and if you're three rooms away crouching in an air vent.

 

[Stallion Free]

Alot of hidden achievements, must be a new Steam thing. Because hidden achievements used to have a locked achievement icon.

Nah, hidden achievements have been in for a while.

 

[thetechkid]

So I went into that gang area where they hate augs and killed every one of the gang members. Now I'm feeling like I might've screwed myself on a sidequest or something, did I make any sidequests impossible by doing this?

 

[Forkball]

Ok I have a question about the sidequests (still in Detroit). So far they have been automatically assigned to me, but I heard there are some you can miss. Is there a list anywhere that lists where to activate all the sidequests? Are they time specific (like after a certain main mission has been passed)? I found some girl with a name (Charlene or something) but when I talk to her she doesn't do anything special.

Also I hacked the level 4 panel on top of the big ladder behind the giant Metamorfo or whatever billboard. When I got inside, there was jack. Was I just trolled?

 

[Ether_Snake]

I haven't played the game, but I like the advertising on youtube about cybernetics.

What's great is I didn't expect Deus Ex to have much of an "image" that could be easily communicated. But I think the whole cybernetics thing is a great foundation for the brand to establish interest among a wide audience. It really speaks to everyone when presented under that angle, and I think it should be clearly established as being the skeleton of the series from here on out.

 

[thetrin]

Ok I have a question about the sidequests (still in Detroit). So far they have been automatically assigned to me, but I heard there are some you can miss. Is there a list anywhere that lists where to activate all the sidequests? Are they time specific (like after a certain main mission has been passed)? I found some girl with a name (Charlene or something) but when I talk to her she doesn't do anything special.

Also I hacked the level 4 panel on top of the big ladder behind the giant Metamorfo or whatever billboard. When I got inside, there was jack. Was I just trolled?

You don't need a list. Just go talk to people and listen to what people are saying. I never used a list of a FAQ, and only missed one my entire playthrough.

 

[Coxswain]

Lets count the worthless. Stealth tree, legs beyond high jumping, eyes (can detect enemies through walls with the single radar upgrade), mini map (first radar upgrade is the only one that is valuable) everything involved in aiming while (there is absolutely no reason to EVER fire while moving around...), Fortify, hacking analysis, Implanted re-breather (there is maybe 1-2 instances this will be used)

Cloaking is absolutely useful, as is silent movement (all three levels), recoil compensation is very useful if you're doing a combat-based playthrough with any weapon other than the 10mm, Smart Vision lets you see cloaked enemies, and the rebreather is useful for getting through quite a few hidden/alternative routes through levels, in addition to making you immune to gas grenades.

The only worthless augmentations are the Aim Stabilizer (and only because a laser sight makes it obsolete), Hacking: Analyze and Fortify, the three levels of 'Mark Target' in the Stealth Enhancer, the Alert countdown, and (arguably) the Faster Sprint. Ten or so augmentations out of a total of ~55 you can choose to upgrade is Not Too Shabby™.
The others are definitely not perfectly balanced, but upward of 50% of the game's possible augmentations are quite useful for one playstyle or another.

 

[Wallach]

Also I hacked the level 4 panel on top of the big ladder behind the giant Metamorfo or whatever billboard. When I got inside, there was jack. Was I just trolled?

Nah, that gives you access to an adjacent rooftop.

 

[Papercuts]

yes it does...unless crouching. And if you are crouching you will never NEED to be cloaked to get anywhere at the same speed...

Well, you're kinda INVISIBLE. So you tend to crouch-cloak right through the middle of a hostile area, not some roundabout outside path, it's much quicker.

You can also combine it with the soundless sprinting, so having max batteries and maxed out leg augments = cloak, extended sprint, and making no noise as you bolt past people.

Deus Ex is all about having multiple ways to play. Yeah, you can just kill everyone fairly easily, but if you don't there's a lot of ways to go about it. To cater to so many styles it needed to be possible to make it through areas without things like cloak, but having those augments simply speed up the process.

For instance, look at Detroit. There's one area linking the police station to the back area, and the side path is all electrified. I kept going through the station, to the roof and dropped from above. Now that I'm here again with a lot more augments, I can run through that electric area, or high jump the fence. Technically, both are "useless" as I don't need them, but they open up a new path and are fun to do. Icarus Drop is another, Hengsha is a lot easier to navigate with it; I like dropping off the roof for a quicker way down. When I see enemies, I know I don't need to crouch and make my way over, if I have the batteries I just activate silent walk, cloak, run up and double takedown.

 

[thetrin]

Well, you're kinda INVISIBLE. So you tend to crouch-cloak right through the middle of a hostile area, not some roundabout outside path, it's much quicker.

You can also combine it with the soundless sprinting, so having max batteries and maxed out leg augments = cloak, extended sprint, and making no noise as you bolt past people.

Deus Ex is all about having multiple ways to play. Yeah, you can just kill everyone fairly easily, but if you don't there's a lot of ways to go about it. To cater to so many styles it needed to be possible to make it through areas without things like cloak, but having those augments simply speed up the process.

For instance, look at Detroit. There's one area linking the police station to the back area, and the side path is all electrified. I kept going through the station, to the roof and dropped from above. Now that I'm here again with a lot more augments, I can run through that area, or high jump the fence. Technically, both are "useless" as I don't need them, but they open up a new path and are fun to do. Icarus Drop is another, Hengsha is a lot easier to navigate without it, but I like dropping off the roof for a quicker way down. When I see enemies, I know I don't need to crouch and make my way over, if I have the batteries I just activate silent walk, cloak, run up and double takedown.

NO DON'T YOU GET IT CLOAK IS BROKEN LISTEN TO MEEEEEEEEE

 

[Coxswain]

You can also combine it with the soundless sprinting, so having max batteries and maxed out leg augments = cloak, extended sprint, and making no noise as you bolt past people.

That, or you just suck it up and make noise while you're running, and before the cloak runs out you crouch back down, take cover, and move on before the guards catch up to where they heard the noise.

Seriously, if anything cloaking is monstrously overpowered; you'd have to be pretty awful at it to find it "useless".

 

[PaddyOCanager]

Just beat the game, very enjoyable. Started to drag on at the end unfortunately, and the "finale" was dumb. However, everything up to that was awesome and I'm already starting my second playthrough - guns blazing, kill everyone and act like an asshole in every conversation. So far it's going great.

 

[thetrin]

Seriously, if anything cloaking is monstrously overpowered; you'd have to be pretty awful at it to find it "useless".

I was going to say that, but didn't feel like typing that on my iPad when I made my last post. Once you have it maxed out, it's ridiculously overpowered.

 

[pakkit]

Seriously, if anything cloaking is monstrously overpowered; you'd have to be pretty awful at it to find it "useless".

Compare this game's version of cloaking to Crysis 2 or Alpha Protocol and it's vastly underwhelming. I think it's more fair, honestly, but for those that prefer simply cloaking past large chunks of the game (as those games allowed), one might come away disappointed.

 

[Card Boy]

Seriously, if anything cloaking is monstrously overpowered; you'd have to be pretty awful at it to find it "useless".

Cloaking is only OP because we have all the other augs in this game to make you into a 'Super Solider'. Compared to DX1's Cloaking, DX3's cloaking is underpowered.