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Deus Ex: Human Revolution |OT| I never asked for this... It gave me lemon-lime

Korigama

Member
In general, the endings are the weakest part of the game...I even liked the boss fights better than the endings. Even for the only one I actually liked (
Sarif ending
), it was only because I didn't see it as being as unfavorable as the alternatives, and even then having said ending play out exactly as told (rather than as a short-term solution) wouldn't be ideal. Keeping in mind just what sort of people going with one of the other endings would satisfy (
Taggart ending
), an idea which would be less of a problem if not for both who was proposing it and how they intended to go about doing it, it's the sort of thing that makes me wish there was a middle ground between these two endings instead of only the choice between the extremes they represent.

When considering how good the rest of the game was at providing alternatives most of the time, it was disappointing that the same level of care didn't go into how it ended.
 
I thought the actual ending monologues were good...

And despite the fact that the stock footage reels were pretty cheesy, I thought it was effective.
 

zomaha

Member
SenseiJinx said:
I thought the actual ending monologues were good...

And despite the fact that the stock footage reels were pretty cheesy, I thought it was effective.

Agreed. I
chose to sink the facility my first play-through because I didn't think either of the 3 had the right message
and I was satisfied.
 

Mooreberg

is sharpening a shovel and digging a ditch
Really good so far. Things have just opened up and I am moving around the police station to take care of business. Only thing I do not like so far is the weird idea of a battery limiting up close melee take downs, but I got the tranq sniper from Sarif and bought a stun gun from a dealer that became available due to certain heroics, so I'm still moving along with a non-lethal approach. Do you eventually get a place to store items and weapons you do not want to carry on you?
 

Korigama

Member
Mooreberg said:
Do you eventually get a place to store items and weapons you do not want to carry on you?
You can pretty much just drop them anywhere you'll remember and can return to easily. No one will steal them or anything, so they'll remain where they are so long as you don't switch hubs. Adam's apartment is a good early place for dropping off extra stuff.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
petethepanda said:
Just beat it. Jesus. Most wholly unsatisfying endings I've encountered in a while.

I actually liked them all.

Fahrenheit said:
Yeah, as bad as vanilla fallout 3

I liked Fallout's ending as well!

Is there something wrong with me or something?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Juan29.zapata said:
I liked Fallout's ending as well!

Is there something wrong with me or something?
I was a little awestruck at the stock footage. I was hoping for an ending more directly attached to my story, not some grand narration about human progress over stock footage for too long. It just felt detached and, well, lazy. Really unsatisfying to me; it felt as outsourced as the boss fights.
 
Juan29.zapata said:
I actually liked them all.



I liked Fallout's ending as well!

Is there something wrong with me or something?


I wish I was like you. I wanted to see some grand cut scene which my actions throughout the game has shaped. I love everything about the climax till that cinema started rolling. Grumpy grumpy, well a least gears 3 has a fulfilling ending or so I hear. I hope the fedex man gets here early tomorrow.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So, I've commented on how good I think this game is. What I haven't mentioned is how I nearly tossed it back in the box and returned it after the first couple hours. I've mentioned this stuff in the Halo thread (for some reason), but I wanted to consolodate it here.

There are some gameplay features that look for in games, and if they include them, I know not to buy the game because those features bug me so much. I'll freely admit this probobly sounds like I'm super picky, and well, I am. But I'll just pounce on this once, because other than this stuff (and the bosses) I think Deus Ex: HR is a fantastic game.

With Deus Ex, we start as a component stealth character, and the perks (Praxis) we can earn make us an awesome one. But we start as a horrible combat character, and the perks make us merely competent. Weapons feature lots of recoil, and most jarring to me is that we can't even aim straight with a scoped weapon.

The difficulty in using a weapon should come from their situational usage, ammo scarcity, and the capabilities and characteristics of the enemies. Not through artificial mechanics such as a roaming reticule and a swinging screen every time we shoot. This is why I love Halo and don't play most other shooters (and hate bloom in Reach).

Let me explain what I mean with an illustration.

Let's say we have a side scrolling platformer, but the jumping mechanics are really sloppy and hard to control, such that precision jumps are very hard to nail. And then we create a perk tree that lets us upgrade those sloppy controls away.

Alternately, you could have a platformer where the jumping mechanic is nice and precise, and the game is made difficult through level design.

That is what Deus Ex does: gunplay is sloppy and imprecise, but we can make it play in a way that is much less punishing by spending Praxis to fix the gunplay.

My objection is to adding difficulty by removing our ability to have precise game controls. I think that's a cheap way to balance games. To me, it is the opposite of fun. It's cheap because it's a lot easier to make a game difficult by screwing with our ability to aim straight than it is to make smart AI, well balanced weapons and interesting encounters. I'm exasperated by what Deus Ex does because the way they introduce recoil and sway are not needed - they have a solid game to build on. But they muddy the game mechanics anyways.

I'd rather we start out with competant combat mechanics, and then use Praxis to make them great. One random example:

Let's say we start out such that all weapons have iron sights, which are stable. The first Praxis in the Precision tree updates our skills from iron sights to the full-screen smartlinked scope, similar to what we see with the sniper (or Halo) weapons.

Second Praxis doubles the magnification of the scope for those weapons. That would let us start with solid aiming mechanics, but then let us gain skills to use them better.

Instead, we start with gimped aiming mechanics and the Praxis make them normal. I was really frustrated with the gun mechanics in Deus Ex until I had used the Praxis to remove the recoil and roaming reticule when scoped. Now, I get that DX is not a combat-focused game. I'm not wanting to be able to turn it into Halo. I just want to be able to aim and shoot straight.

This concept is one of my biggest pet peves in games. Sorry for the rant.


tl;dr version: The gunplay itself should not be difficult. The difficulty should emerge from the context it is deployed in, rather than the mechanics.

The actual game itself - the encounter and world design - are incredible.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I think you lost the forest for the tree of my illustration. My objection is about muddying game mechanics in order to create a perk, rather than relying on the strength of the underlying game.

The analog to this would be to take a side scrolling platformer and make the jumping mechanics really sloppy and hard to control, such that precision jumps are very hard to nail. And then create a perk tree that lets you upgrade those sloppy controls away.

Alternately, you could have a platformer where the jumping mechanic is nice and precise, and the game is made difficult through level design.

That is what Deus Ex does: gunplay is sloppy and imprecise, but you can make it play as a normal game plays by spending Praxis to fix the gunplay.

To broaden this out again, my objection is through adding difficulty by removing our ability to have precise game controls. I think that's a cheap, terrible way to balance games. To me, it is the opposite of fun. It's cheap because it's a lot easier to make a game difficult by screwing with our ability to aim straight than it is to make smart AI, well balanced weapons and interesting encounters. I'm so exasperated by what Deus Ex does because the BS they introduce with recoil and sway are not needed - they have a solid game to build on. But they muddy the game mechanics anyways.

And to try once again to link this back to Halo - the series never had to rely on that sort of thing because it had great encounters, well balance weapons and smart AI. Which is what makes the addition of bloom so galling.

tl;dr version: The gunplay itself should not be difficult. The difficulty should emerge from the context, not the mechanics.

You may like sloppy game mechanics, but regardless of genre, it's a cheap design crutch that I avoid like the plague.
While mulling over the platforming analogy, I don't necessarily feel it applies because that would suggest that HR would then be a pure FPS, but really you don't even need to fire a shot for just about any of the game if you choose not to.

I think that's where the divide comes in, and HR doesn't feel or play like a traditional FPS would. Though I don't consider it sloppy to have weapon kickback or scope sway, other non-RPG FPS games incorporate those as well and to great success such as Call of Duty. The more methodical approach to HR encounters doesn't leave you doing any fast paced quick-scope sniper shots, you can spot out enemy paths, you can pace your approach accordingly. The aug comes as an added convenience, but not as a mandatory upgrade. Like I said, a lot of the weapons perform perfectly without it.

Though that isn't to say I wouldn't want the gunplay of HR to be as strong as the best in the FPS genre, or the stealth to be as strong as the Thief games, and so on. But I just haven't seen a game put so much on its plate and perform it all as competently so I can't complain y'know?

The original Deus Ex is one of my favourite games of all time, but it's not the sum of its parts either. They later patched in a deathmatch multiplayer mode and it's one of the worst I've ever played lol.
 
Regarding the Foxiest of the Hounds achievement, I'm assuming that the point at which you
have to save Malik after crash landing the helicopter
doesn't count against it? I was in Hostile mode as soon as I had control, and I ran around taking enemies on directly.
 
Shotgun Kiss said:
Regarding the Foxiest of the Hounds achievement, I'm assuming that the point at which you
have to save Malik after crash landing the helicopter
doesn't count against it? I was in Hostile mode as soon as I had control, and I ran around taking enemies on directly.
Yeah you're fine.
 
Shotgun Kiss said:
Regarding the Foxiest of the Hounds achievement, I'm assuming that the point at which you
have to save Malik after crash landing the helicopter
doesn't count against it? I was in Hostile mode as soon as I had control, and I ran around taking enemies on directly.
Hostile is not the same as "setting off any alarms"
 
Rickenslacker said:
Yeah you're fine.

Thanks. I'm annoyed that a robot self-destructed and killed an enemy. I have a feeling that's going to count against me for the Pacifist achievement, if I haven't already lost it (thanks to an enemy in a sewer falling into some electrified water after I knocked him out).
 

Replicant

Member
Question about the story post Hengsha

WTF? Am I the only one who got the impression that Megan slept with Jaron Namir? Or at least fool around with him? The way she affectionally called the guy when Adam finally found her was disturbing to say the least. This is beyond stockholm syndrome!
.

And oh, my instinct not to accept
Chinese knock-off chip paid off. I felt that whatever chip Sarif installed on Adam must be of higher value than some mass-produced chip made in China. After all, Sarif outfitted Adam with Typhoon, his latest and most valued secret invention.
 

Turfster

Member
Shotgun Kiss said:
Thanks. I'm annoyed that a robot self-destructed and killed an enemy. I have a feeling that's going to count against me for the Pacifist achievement, if I haven't already lost it (thanks to an enemy in a sewer falling into some electrified water after I knocked him out).
... Sounds doomed, sorry.
 

MaddenNFL64

Member
Replicant said:
Question about the story post Hengsha

WTF? Am I the only one who got the impression that Megan slept with Jaron Namir? Or at least fool around with him? The way she affectionally called the guy when Adam finally found her was disturbing to say the least. This is beyond stockholm syndrome!
.

And oh, my instinct not to accept
Chinese knock-off chip paid off. I felt that whatever chip Sarif installed on Adam must be of higher value than some mass-produced chip made in China. After all, Sarif outfitted Adam with Typhoon, his latest and most valued secret invention.

It's exactly Stockholm to me. 6 months of always seeing eachother, the captive/captor dynamic falls off a bit, and becomes subconscious. Plus Megan is probably Queen bee, being buddy buddy with Darrow, and stationed in his suite/lab.

And ya, I think once you go through Upper Hengsha, all the evidence up there, combined with all the bullshit you know is going on, then them giving you the choice of implanting it, fairly obvious. But I STILL implanted it just to see what would happen. Made Namir's fight way more interesting, then just punch glitching him, which I have to try & not use lol.

Turfster said:
... Sounds doomed, sorry.

Ya, the electrified water deal, it's over. On the bright side, the kid gloves are off. Go murder people.
 

Forkball

Member
Ok how the hell do I beat the final boss?
I put in the 2012 code, it causes some shit to freak out, and then I don't know what to do. I try to shoot Zhou but she's behind a shield. Then robots come out and kill me or I get electrified from the floor.
 
Forkball said:
Ok how the hell do I beat the final boss?
I put in the 2012 code, it causes some shit to freak out, and then I don't know what to do. I try to shoot Zhou but she's behind a shield. Then robots come out and kill me or I get electrified from the floor.

You just stand around and wait for awhile, and eventually the glass breaks, and the you shoot her in the face a few times. Also, if you don't have electricity-proof aug, just stand on something so that you won't get electrocuted.

Yeah, it's really dumb.


Curious, who else really liked Adam as a character? I'm sure opinions differ on the subject, but I thought he was a very interesting character. What really solidified him as a great character for me was
visiting his apartment for the first time. So many little touches that really gave the character depth for me. The books strewn about, the food laying around the apartment, the things he tinkered with on his desk. The pictures of him in SWAT, the "Get Well Soon" cards, the picture of him and Megan. The broken mirror. Seriously, for the rest of the game I couldn't look at him the same. He felt like a real person to me.

Something that DX1 did well was when you made a decision to do something, JC would "defend" that decision, as it were. It nearly always made it feel like what you chose to have him do was within his character. I felt they did the same thing here.

There were a few things that he never reacted to that bothered me somewhat. Finding out that Sarif had his legs and good arm cut off to be replaced by augmented ones made me rage. I can't believe Adam didn't even bring it up.

Still, there were plenty of small moments that were incredibly satisfying. Like when he asks Pritchard to send a security team to protect that senile lady that had saved him from the fire when he was a baby. Or his and Malik's exchanges.

I thought it was an interesting contrast between the motives for most of the characters in the game, and those of Adam. With all of the conspiracies and political maneuverings, Adam's basic drive was to first bring justice to those he thought were dead, and then to rescue those I'm sure he feels he failed. As the chief of security, I'm sure he was haunted by the idea that his lack of sufficient security resulted in the break-in.
 
GhaleonEB said:
That is what Deus Ex does: gunplay is sloppy and imprecise, but we can make it play in a way that is much less punishing by spending Praxis to fix the gunplay.

My objection is to adding difficulty by removing our ability to have precise game controls. I think that's a cheap way to balance games. To me, it is the opposite of fun. It's cheap because it's a lot easier to make a game difficult by screwing with our ability to aim straight than it is to make smart AI, well balanced weapons and interesting encounters. I'm exasperated by what Deus Ex does because the way they introduce recoil and sway are not needed - they have a solid game to build on. But they muddy the game mechanics anyways.

I'd rather we start out with competant combat mechanics, and then use Praxis to make them great. One random example:

Let's say we start out such that all weapons have iron sights, which are stable. The first Praxis in the Precision tree updates our skills from iron sights to the full-screen smartlinked scope, similar to what we see with the sniper (or Halo) weapons.

Second Praxis doubles the magnification of the scope for those weapons. That would let us start with solid aiming mechanics, but then let us gain skills to use them better.

Instead, we start with gimped aiming mechanics and the Praxis make them normal. I was really frustrated with the gun mechanics in Deus Ex until I had used the Praxis to remove the recoil and roaming reticule when scoped. Now, I get that DX is not a combat-focused game. I'm not wanting to be able to turn it into Halo. I just want to be able to aim and shoot straight.

This concept is one of my biggest pet peves in games. Sorry for the rant.


tl;dr version: The gunplay itself should not be difficult. The difficulty should emerge from the context it is deployed in, rather than the mechanics.

The actual game itself - the encounter and world design - are incredible.

Can't agree with you here sir.

On it's base level, the gunplay of HR is MIIILES ahead of the original DeusEx, which was pretty much broken until you maxed out a weapon tree. It was barely serviceable.

With Human Revolution, the gunplay is far from sloppy. Applying your typical tactical shooter approach will make everything fine. I got about halfway through the game with the default gunplay stats and was easily able to take out enemies and the first boss. As long as your shooting in controlled burst and from cover, there no reason you shouldn't be taking out people with ease. No different then the gunplay in your average Tom Clancy game really.
Once you do max out recoil, movement, etc,. Then yeah, you could play HR like it was Gears or something.

The gunplay, like everything else, is the sum of it's parts in HR and i'm completely grateful Eidos Montreal got that part down as it was the last holdout/thing to get right for the franchise.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
FYI the press has seen The Missing Link and the embargo lifts Friday the 23rd. I've played through the first hour or so of it, and will be doing IGN's write-up.

Don't ask me for teases as I literally can't say anything. Just wanted to let you guys know that Friday is when you can expect impressions and details to drop.
 

Replicant

Member
Finished it. Got Pacifist and Foxiest even though I went full commando on
the crazies
. I didn't killed them, of course, I only throw gas grenade and went happy electrocute disregarding alarmed and hostile reaction.

Now, I personally Love the last boss battle. I thought it was a nice mix of
battle and fast hacking
. I am apparently a soft touch because I decided not to kill
the 3 slave girls strapped to the hyron
. No such mercy for you-know-who though.

As for the ending, I chose
Taggart ending. Because I feel that while augmentation can help those who needs it, it can also be misused. Only through strict regulation can augmentation benefit those who needs it and lessened the divide between the haves and the have nots because if Government regulates it, they'd have to offer help to those who genuinely needs it. I don't see the point of suiciding or going survival of the fittest where the rich are the only ones who can afford augmentation (Sarif) or telling everyone that augmentation is dangerous, completely halting possible progress (Darrow)
.

What really sent me into WTF mode is the real ending after the credit.
WTF?! Is Megan in this all along? That bitch sounds like she's a part of Illuminati.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
AgentOtaku said:
Can't agree with you here sir.

On it's base level, the gunplay of HR is MIIILES ahead of the original DeusEx, which was pretty much broken until you maxed out a weapon tree. It was barely serviceable.

With Human Revolution, the gunplay is far from sloppy. Applying your typical tactical shooter approach will make everything fine. I got about halfway through the game with the default gunplay stats and was easily able to take out enemies and the first boss. As long as your shooting in controlled burst and from cover, there no reason you shouldn't be taking out people with ease. No different then the gunplay in your average Tom Clancy game really.
Once you do max out recoil, movement, etc,. Then yeah, you could play HR like it was Gears or something.

The gunplay, like everything else, is the sum of it's parts in HR and i'm completely grateful Eidos Montreal got that part down as it was the last holdout/thing to get right for the franchise.
This is the first Deus Ex game I've played, so I don't have a point of reference there. But it's also the first game I've played to have gunplay this sloppy. Floating targeting reticule, iron sights (which I abhor), screen-shaking recoil, full screen convulsions upon taking fire, poor weapon feedback...just very poorly designed stuff across the board. And as I said, I really detest the philosophy of muddying game mechanics in the way Deus Ex did. The entire concept of a perk to get a stable targeting reticle is comical to me; it's just such an absurd concept. Upgrades for a reticle that won't move on it's own! Whee.
 
Awwwww yeah. Time to play it again.
Well I wish I had the time to play it again.

Haunted said:
Needs comparison shots to DX11 vanilla.

What you need is some better eyes. You don't need comparison shots to see those colors.
 

Ermac

Proudly debt free. If you need a couple bucks, just ask.
SenseiJinx said:
You just stand around and wait for awhile, and eventually the glass breaks, and the you shoot her in the face a few times. Also, if you don't have electricity-proof aug, just stand on something so that you won't get electrocuted.

Yeah, it's really dumb.


Curious, who else really liked Adam as a character? I'm sure opinions differ on the subject, but I thought he was a very interesting character. What really solidified him as a great character for me was
visiting his apartment for the first time. So many little touches that really gave the character depth for me. The books strewn about, the food laying around the apartment, the things he tinkered with on his desk. The pictures of him in SWAT, the "Get Well Soon" cards, the picture of him and Megan. The broken mirror. Seriously, for the rest of the game I couldn't look at him the same. He felt like a real person to me.

Something that DX1 did well was when you made a decision to do something, JC would "defend" that decision, as it were. It nearly always made it feel like what you chose to have him do was within his character. I felt they did the same thing here.

There were a few things that he never reacted to that bothered me somewhat. Finding out that Sarif had his legs and good arm cut off to be replaced by augmented ones made me rage. I can't believe Adam didn't even bring it up.

Still, there were plenty of small moments that were incredibly satisfying. Like when he asks Pritchard to send a security team to protect that senile lady that had saved him from the fire when he was a baby. Or his and Malik's exchanges.

I thought it was an interesting contrast between the motives for most of the characters in the game, and those of Adam. With all of the conspiracies and political maneuverings, Adam's basic drive was to first bring justice to those he thought were dead, and then to rescue those I'm sure he feels he failed. As the chief of security, I'm sure he was haunted by the idea that his lack of sufficient security resulted in the break-in.


Where do you find out Sarif had his good arm and legs replaced? Also I didn't know his legs were augmented
 

Haunted

Member
Lostconfused said:
What you need is some better eyes. You don't need comparison to see those colors.
No, what I need is a comparison from the same areas in the game as I haven't even played the game yet (but will want to decide whether my first playthrough is done vanilla or ENB).
 

ctrayne

Member
Looks lovely, but I don't suppose I could manually tweak it to be truer to the original colors? I love the effects, but I prefer my renaissances golden.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
dx1dcr5.jpg

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dx3udja.jpg

dx47fyn.jpg

dx59e6m.jpg

dx63ehz.jpg
 

derFeef

Member
I have come to conclusion that HR is a fine looking game with or without ENB, but I will gladly give it a shot when it's released for ATI cards as well (I hope it does, what the hell!)

And yeah, I adore the HUD in this game, even the outlines! :p
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
GhaleonEB said:
The entire concept of a perk to get a stable targeting reticle is comical to me; it's just such an absurd concept. Upgrades for a reticle that won't move on it's own! Whee.

Don't really get this? Holding a target steady is difficult for nearly everyone in real life, just given the slight movements in the body that are induced by things like breathing. If anything is comical, it's fixed, unshakable target sights.
 

ctrayne

Member
charlequin said:
That reminds me: is there some way to get the freaking quickbar to actually stay put at the bottom of the screen instead of constantly fading away to uselessness?
I believe the tilde key will do that.
 
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