NeOak
Member
Yes. YES.
It would be an awesome option to have for those who prefer the JP voices.
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Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June
- Thread starter Flying Wonkey
- Start date
Yes. YES.
It would be an awesome option to have for those who prefer the JP voices.
If Gloria counts as 'non-white', Ondria Hardin would qualify as well. And while she was depicted using similar weapons in cutscenes, it's likely Trish won't have access to them in gameplay, leaving no playable equivalent to Lucia's style.
Crossposting here just in case people were interested in importing:
I'm not giving up hope for a physical release quite yet, but even if we get one it won't be a special package or anything. If the west gets physical copies, I'll be double dipping physically. Hell, I'll probably buy and gift copies.
I'm not giving up hope for a physical release quite yet, but even if we get one it won't be a special package or anything. If the west gets physical copies, I'll be double dipping physically. Hell, I'll probably buy and gift copies.
RadioHammer500
Banned
so with DMC 4 having arguably the deepest combat system in gaming, what stopped it from reaching the heights of Dante's Awakening, was it just too flawed in other areas of the game, that the combat system just couldn't carry everything?
The backtracking was pretty bad on top of stuff like the dice puzzle game. Story and characters were pretty lousy compared to DMC3 as well. Game also had a weird lack of costumes. Not as many classic boss fights as DMC3 either (DMC4 basically just had Credo Angelo as its best boss fight).
badcrumble
Member
The campaign and story are pretty inferior to DMC3 (as is the selection of bosses, even though Berial and Credo are great) even though the normal enemy design is generally a lot better.
Also, I'd argue that although DMC4's depth is undeniable, it doesn't quite hit a certain 'sweet spot' in the sense that, although Nero's combat foundations are simply stellar (and probably a more solid foundation than Dante's base combat), he only has one melee weapon (Can we call the Red Queen a Devil Arm even though it doesn't seem to be demon-related?) and one gun, as stellar as those two weapons are.
Dante, on the other hand, has something of a glut of options; this makes him intensely rewarding for expert-level players, but (now that you can switch between them) Styles got nerfed pretty hard. Also, between style-switching and three weapons at a time, Dante's options have been massively broadened but there's much less of a sense of every single move in your arsenal being a single button press away. The level of depth on DMC4 Dante is still absolutely crazy, but he's arguably less rewarding for mid-skill-level players who want to pick a favorite loadout/playstyle and rock with it.
tl;dr Nero is arguably simpler than DMC3 Dante, DMC4 Dante is definitely more complex than DMC3 Dante, in DMC4 many players felt limited by Nero and overwhelmed by the possibilities with Dante.
Thats a really good question.
Im no DMC combo expert, but i guess for me the overall atmosphere (read darker and more gothic) in DMC3 felt better than DMC4.
DMC3 was also alot harder by default, meaning the satisfaction once you finally beat that epic boss was high. Like Dark Souls high. No im not joking.
RadioHammer500
Banned
so what your mean is, it's harder to just pick up and play DMC 4 Dante...which makes it less rewarding for players that are not as skilled, is what you are trying to say?
Loaded up DMC4 after revisiting DMC3 and the combat in 4 feels so much better.
For the most part I would say that people loved playing with Nero. He is probably the perfect example of simplifying a character for newer players while retaining depth for advanced players.
And Dante in DMC4 is a great contrast to that (depth and options up the wazoo). He can be as simple (pick a style/weapons and stick with them) or complex (go nuts with everything) as you want him to be.
They are an excellent combination.
For the most part I would say that people loved playing with Nero. He is probably the perfect example of simplifying a character for newer players while retaining depth for advanced players.
And Dante in DMC4 is a great contrast to that (depth and options up the wazoo). He can be as simple (pick a style/weapons and stick with them) or complex (go nuts with everything) as you want him to be.
They are an excellent combination.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
DMC 4 was more fun for me to play due to the depth of combat, addition of Nero, and better enemies to fight (I will stand by this, damnit: Many of DMC 3's enemies were not fun to fight! Bayonetta and DMC 4 wiped the floor with DMC 3 in this regard) but DMC 3 had the better designed campaign. DMC 4 has bullshit like Gyro Blades, 2 dice minigames (ruined the boss rush, imo), 7 mission of backtracking with next to no changes, and nothing is actually designed around Dante. Dante is also a fucking beast to come to grips with.
itchyass86
Member
Without already having an established background with DMC3 Dante, a player would be completely and utterly befuddled by DMC4 Dante. Throw in style switching and the already ingrained gameplay of Nero, and you've set yourself up for a difficult adaptation for any new players.
But at the end of the day, a poor player will continue playing through the game if the rest of the experience is satisfying and up to snuff. DMC3 did that. DMC4 arguably did not. The pacing, story, and characters were all heavily flawed. And perhaps most importantly there was no rival or foil to Nero. Dante doesn't count or appropriately fill in the shoes of one. I maintain that one of DMC3's biggest strengths is Vergil, and the perfect design and execution of a rivalry within a game.
The Silver
Member
I can buy Vergil growing a beard, he'll be in a rough spot after being enslaved for years and possibly tortured, that's when you grow "he had a hard life" beards.
RadioHammer500
Banned
do you think Capcom will ditch Nero for DMC 5.. or continue with him?
badcrumble
Member
I think Nero's such a great combat foundation that it'll be a damn shame if Itsuno doesn't get to build on him a lot more.
But I expect DMC5 to clearly put Dante front and center (albeit with a whole suite of playable characters consisting of *at least* the five we're seeing in DMC4SE).
I think Nero is a fine addition to the cast. I think he brings a lot to the table. And I welcome him being added to any future DMC.
But in DMC5, Dante needs to be front and center. With the fiasco of DmC and the lapsing identity of DMC, Capcom needs to reassure the fanbase that Dante has returned.
direct_quote
Member
We need full fleshed out campaigns for Nero, dante, and Vergil in DMC 5..
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I'd prefer a 50/50 split, honestly. Deal with Nero/Vergil whole thing when Vergil inevitably comes back and have a spotlight on Dante as well. The Sparda family reunion, so to speak. Have a fight against Dante, Nero, and Vergil in the game.
I wouldn't mind a new character for DMC5 entirely; just as long as whoever is in charge doesn't fuck it up.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
As a non-advanced DMC player, I thought that DMC4 Dante was utterly bewildering to play as. I had no issues with him in 3, but in 4 they just throw you with a billion tools to play with, and keep adding weapons and mechanics on top of that with every other mission. Not to mention that you had zero clue on what you should upgrade considering there are like 7 upgrade paths as well as standalone moves. It was a complete mess.
I loved Nero though, very simple to use character, but still difficult to master. I just wish he had an extra weapon or two to play as.
I loved Nero though, very simple to use character, but still difficult to master. I just wish he had an extra weapon or two to play as.
I think they can elaborate on and clarify the relationship of Nero and Vergil without having them be central to the mainline plot. Sort of like Raiden comes back in MGS4 in Snake's story. As most people know, there are a great number of parallels that can be drawn in the macro-progression of MGS and DMC.
Basically, I don't want too much baggage mucking up a potential DMC5. I know that people tend to disagree with me on this, but I think it'd be better to keep the story light on Sparda family drama.
EDIT: I'd have no issue with a three way battle or something like that. But I want it to happen organically without being shoehorned in. DMC3 handled it extremely well, and it was impeccably designed/paced. It gets a bit trickier with the current landscape.
The other thing is, there's no natural progression to the character. Nero's Proud Souls carry immediately over to DMC4 Dante. While in DMC3, you slowly acclimate yourself to his moveset throughout the course of the game, Dante's segment in DMC4 puts things into overdrive, sits you in the driver's chair, and turns on the nos.
Yeah because we trust Capcom with multiple campaigns.
*cough* RE6 *cough*
I wouldn't mind a new character for DMC5 entirely; just as long as whoever is in charge doesn't fuck it up.
Bad idea.
With unique areas. One thing I'm concerned about with DMC4SE is that with the extra characters, the negative feelings about backtracking will become compounded.
I went to replay DMC4 last night, and holy shit it feels much worse than I remembered. I appreciate Dante is able to rush through Nero's areas, but damn it just feels really weird to retrace your steps like that.
RadioHammer500
Banned
although you guys mentioned that DMC 4 is deeper then DmC and has a much more complex combat system, in terms of Dante's
but in terms of Vergil, isn't DmC Vergil actually better than DMC 3 Vergil?
although Itsuno said in his blog that the DMC 4 SE will be the definite version of Vergil
but in terms of Vergil, isn't DmC Vergil actually better than DMC 3 Vergil?
although Itsuno said in his blog that the DMC 4 SE will be the definite version of Vergil
Yeah, DmC Vergil is the pinnacle of the character gameplay-wise. Even though he's only got one weapon (Yamato with three stances), he's incredibly fleshed out and used teleportation techniques. They're actually incorporating elements of the DmC Vergil into DMC4 Vergil, which will be a mix between DMC3 (three weapons) and DmC incarnations of the character.
So yeah, it'll definitely be the most fleshed out version of Vergil at this point.
Let's be fair here. DMC3 Vergil came out 10 years ago as an extra character on a system with RAM limitations. Itsuno admitted that there were things he wanted to do with Vergil but couldn't because of the power of the PS2. DmC came out in 2013 and its character development was heavily influenced/assisted by Itsuno, while there was already an existing template for the character to build upon.
That all said, DmC Vergil has a greater breadth of options than DMC3 Vergil. Just like DMC4 Dante has more options at any given time than DMC3 Dante. It's a natural progression.
Also, you're comparing DMC4 to DmC in your first sentence, but then talking about DMC3 Vergil, so I'm not sure I'm following your logic.
For Dante, it's a mixed bag. You get to love the options, especially if you do more to just stick with what works for you from the start and then start to get more "Ah-hah!" moments as you, as the player, start to open up his moveset and incorporating it into your repertoire of your "fighting style".
In my case, since Gunslinger was pretty underpowered by itself, you got to appreciate the options present in his other styles.
That said, I really don't expect us to get anything like that in DMC5. Forgetting the finger gymnastics that would be expected to really master Dante at a higher level, I, along with some others, definitely agree that it'd be better to start "consolidating" Dante's moveset, so that the core character would be better. For example - not much excuse not to have at least some of his Gunslinger moves just mapped to Dante's shoot button and keep it moving.
This
RadioHammer500
Banned
sorry i been asking multiple questions about this...just really curious, i really don't understand why DmC wasn't as complex as DMC 4, combat system..i know it was a different company, but did Ninja Theory even get help from Capcom in combat design
it doesn't feel like a progression from DMC 4 to DmC
They could also start incorporating additional motions as well, like they did with Pandora (where you hold the button down to transform it).
Rain Storm and Fireworks could be done with the 360 motion for example.
Capcom wanted to aim for a different audience with DmC and make the game more accessible.
They just went for something different. DmC is still complex, but it's not DMC4's approach to complexity. They went for a more accessible approach, but still open-ended system.
Just play the games, you'll pick up the differences quick.
Yes. Itsuno and others from Capcom flew out regularly in the first part of development to assist Ninja Theory with the combat. Capcom had to teach Ninja Theory how hit detection, strikes, and combat flow worked. They had to teach them enemy and boss design:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/30/39...-long-distance-romance-with-ninja-theory-that
Capcom's goal with DmC was westernization and God of War money. They wanted the game to be approachable and not too difficult for players to pick up.
PensivePen
Member
Itsuno assisted Ninja Theory with designing the combat.
RadioHammer500
Banned
so its fair to say that Capcom had alot to do with DmC success
didn't Itsuno tell Ninja Theory to drop lock on though? or something like that, what was NT thinking about dropping off an important thing like lock on in an action game, that's like a staple
Well, "success" is relative. I don't think it's really been a big success from a sales or gameplay perspective for the series. From the perspective of Western action games in general and sensationalist games journalists maybe.
I certainly don't recall anything about Itsuno advising them to drop lock on. Even though Capcom helped NT with the ebb and flow of combat and enemy design, most of the other combat decisions were made by NT. That's why you get that faux-Heavenly Sword R2/L2 style swap.
RadioHammer500
Banned
thanks for answering my questions, I don't mean to be annoying asking all these questions, im just really curious about DMC, i played 3 along time ago, and really dont remember alot about it..
its cool that Itsuno is going to take the best of Vergil DMC 3 and DmC to make the definite character for DMC 4 SE...
i just hope the girls combat is well defined
Astral Dog
Member
Im not sure about more "gothic", that could mean a lot of things, some people associate gothic with a castle.
Yeah, difficulty was great on DMC 3, but its more than that, while DMC 3 reuses the level design a lot, it isnt as noticeable, and its excellent bosses are above those of DMC 4, not that they are bad, but most are repeated 3 times, a similar solution like DMC 1 could have worked, make the level design just different enough, with the same bosses but upgraded patterns,. like Nero was to get used to the game and controls, and then Dante is where things get real and you apply what you learned. (not in terms of combat but still)
after all DMC 4 was a really rushed game, but still got the combat mechanics very, very well.
I think you should give DMC3 another try. It's worth another look years later after you have some other action experience under your belt.
And don't worry about asking questions. I probably should learn to shut up once in a while, but something about DMC forces my hand.
Astral Dog
Member
One thing im worried about is how many characters there are, its great from a gameplay point, but with Vergil returning he needs to be central focus too, DMC 4 was also already reaching it with the amount ofcharacters, look at the SE cover art, compared to the first game.
Add to that the new characters and villains of DMC 5 and it can easily become too convulted,
that said yeah Nero needs to return too, he has too much potential to be thrown away and could fit one more time, and have great scenes with Vergil.
I have to disagree.
More characters. More moves. More weapons. More bosses. More more more.
Keep the story streamlined and tailored to a handful of characters, but make all the characters playable after the story is over. Don't lock traversal to some character specific skills. Make all missions available for all characters. Make training, bloody palace, mission mode, and co-op mission mode available for all characters.
DMC is absolutely begging to be a combat sandbox game. It's a natural next step for the series.
I am not saying to make all of the characters story relevant. That would be absurd and probably destroy any consistency, flow, or pacing. But make them playable after the fact.
They could just make it like Dragon's Crown where the characters are hanging out at Dante's and then you just pick one to tackle a mission.
Would also work great for co-op.
badcrumble
Member
This this this this this.
I think the campaign quality in general could use *some* improvement, but the real strength of DMC that Capcom needs to focus on is the long-tail appeal of the gameplay. They should also focus really seriously on social/video recording features - it's amazing that people have been making style videos on their own all the way back to DMC1, but imagine how much that community would explode if Capcom built the tools for doing that directly into the game itself, then provided a wide set of fully fleshed-out playable characters, lots of weapons loadouts, new and classic bosses and enemies, and so on.
The series doesn't need vastly more cutscenes or level assets or anything (though upping the art quality would be great), it needs an even greater focus on replayability.
AlfredX1990
Banned
RE6 suffered because all the campaigns were designed with different groups of people handled each campaign and the game was only designed for Leon and Ada's campaign (minimal ammo drops for everybody even though the other segments clearly need more ammo)
Even if Capcom goes for multiple campaigns in DMC5 I doubt they are going to have multiple groups working on the game
badcrumble
Member
As I've said elsewhere, I'd love to see DMC5 as a devil-hunting shop sim with a strong focus on combat and a much higher number of generally-shorter missions (and a much broader amount of available difficulties, with superbosses and super-tough combat challenges and stuff). You could have certain missions be gated "core story" missions only playable by the correct character until you've beaten it once (and which you have to beat in order to advance the game and unlock additional missions), 'subplot' missions, et cetera, in addition to missions that are really just there to be fun and don't require any cutscenes.
Multiple 'fully realized' linear campaigns is both more expensive to develop *and* much more backwards-looking and unexciting as far as game design is concerned.
Multiple 'fully realized' linear campaigns is both more expensive to develop *and* much more backwards-looking and unexciting as far as game design is concerned.
Didn't see it that way at all. Ammo was only a problem if you didn't use melee properly in conjunction with precision shooting.
Played the campaigns on various difficulties and had no ammo issues.
The problem with the campaigns was that they were trying to do too much.