The Silver
Member
Sparda had to die somehow and I doubt it was something boring like old age, time to bring in the thing that killed Sparda as the next big bad I say.
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Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June
- Thread starter Flying Wonkey
- Start date
Son Of Sparda
Member
But didn't Sparda lose most of his powers when he came to human world tho? If that was the case then killing him shouldn't be that big of an achievement.
I don't recall anything like this happening. Is that from DMC1?
Son Of Sparda
Member
Nah, DMC3. Arkham said that in order to close the hell gate Sparda sacrificed his demonic powers along side a priestess or something like that.
That doesn't necessarily mean he was weaker in the human world, though. That just means he sacrificed himself, or part of himself, to close the gate.
Sparda abandoned Eva, Dante, and Vergil when he went back to the demon world, and in order to close the gate. That's always been my interpretation of it.
Son Of Sparda
Member
If your sacrificing something then it means you are giving up on it and probably won't get it back, right? So if Sparda sacrificed his demonic powers then it most likely means that he lost those powers, so in turn he should have been weaker after closing the gate.
And I think it was a little bigger than just a piece of his powers. I mean look at how strong Arkham became after obtaining it, or how it helped Dante to become even stronger than Mundus. I think it's safe to say that Sparda became pretty weak after losing that amount of power, I think he even became less stronger after he gave his necklace to Eva.
That's why I say beating him shouldn't be that big of an achievement at that point.
badcrumble
Member
I don't expect more clarification about what happened to Sparda because, frankly, the timeline doesn't really make sense. Sparda disappeared like a thousand years after DMC1 (after falling in love with Eva and switching sides), but Dante and Vergil aren't one thousand years old and their mom didn't die 900-something years ago.
Ah, I see what you're saying. But Sparda abandoned Eva to go back to the demon world, probably reluctantly and at the expense of his own powers, in order to seal it away and make the human world safe. I thought he basically locked himself back into the demon world without powers, which was essentially a death sentence.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I hope they get Shimomura back for DMC 5. DMC 3, 4, and Bayonetta fight scenes are still goddamn legit. Hell, even if they do DmC 2 I want him back.
I see what you mean, but that's the unfortunate price to pay for a series which never plans ahead.
I see what you mean, but that's the unfortunate price to pay for a series which never plans ahead.
badcrumble
Member
As for the series going forward, I do kinda expect DMC5 to have a pretty Vergil-centric plot (moreso if DMC4SE's Vergil cutscenes are pre-DMC3 stuff and don't contain an explanation for how Vergil can come back to the human world post-DMC1), but I expect it to lay the unfriendly part of the rivalry to rest (though arguably DMC3 already did that) and that yeah, going forward we'll probably just see more-powerful demons come forward (with the Sparda family drama finally resolved in a satisfactory fashion in DMC5).
IIRC, DMC2 stated that Argosax ruled the demon world before Mundus did (it's been a while so I could be wrong about that). No reason Mundus can't have a successor too.
IIRC, DMC2 stated that Argosax ruled the demon world before Mundus did (it's been a while so I could be wrong about that). No reason Mundus can't have a successor too.
That, or perhaps they could they could go the other way, with some powerful Demon Lord who was sealed away long before Argosax, Mundus and Sparda were things...and now has come back thanks to the power vacuum that exists.
Either way, someone or something that would finally be a thing that Dante and crew would have to deal with on their own, and not rely on some aspect of Sparda's legacy to win the day, because it was a thing that Sparda never had a chance to deal with.
The Silver
Member
Berial was Mundus's successor, yeah Hell is lacking good talent right now.
badcrumble
Member
Eh, to be totally honest I'd rather they not even bother making it super crystal clear that whatever new threat is something Sparda didn't have to deal with, that it surpasses Mundus or whatever, et cetera.
Any time your fiction starts explicitly talking about "power levels" you've completely failed at storytelling.
badcrumble
Member
I *do* think, given where the series seems to be going in terms of design with multiple playable protagonists, that the basic formula for the good guys winning is going to be less about Dante having a full heart/believing in himself/that set of tropes and more about the weird-ass Devil May Cry shop family all working together well as a team and being greater than the sum of their parts.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see DMC5 make you fight different stages of the final boss with each different playable character, for example.
I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see DMC5 make you fight different stages of the final boss with each different playable character, for example.
Thats not true.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Now we know how Berial became the ruler of the demon world.
It's less about the "power level" aspect, and more of a "alright, Dante, this ain't something that relates to some other aspect of Daddy's legacy, so you're now truly on your own!" type of a thing.
So long as we're dealing with either plots relating to Daddy's magical macguffin sword or some other mess Daddy left behind for him to clean up, it limits the storytelling potential, in my opinion. We'll just get repeats of DMC1, 3 and 4's stories, and we'll start falling into the same type of trap that IGA-era Castlevania fell into.
badcrumble
Member
That's definitely the case, yeah. DMC4 kinda went out of its way to point out that the Savior was less of a threat than Mundus and that Dante/Trish didn't take it super seriously, which was a curious decision.
I'm not against "surprise, angels are evil too" except that'd really transparently stray into Bayonetta territory. Maybe they can have enemies from space or from the future or something, or a demon that's capable of absorbing the power of other demons or something. I dunno. More powerful/less powerful is boring, but different is absolutely needed.
As far as Heaven is concerned, I wouldn't mind seeing them. After all, between the Fallens from DMC3 and the Angelos from DMC4, it just does more to showcase that Arkham's quote from the manga about the two really aren't that different probably was true, anyway.
But on the other hand, maybe it'd be better to keep them more implicit. I still think it would be interesting if Nephilim (re: closer to the original mythos, than DmC's take) existed, and could present new friend/rival/enemy (or enemies) for Dante and crew to fight. That way, you could still have an angelic presence involved, but perhaps without actual Angels showing up.
Fixed to make it more what I imagine. Multiple playable characters sounds like more or less like DMC is going to take that aspect straight from its little brother, BASARA.
PensivePen
Member
I know I'm ready for Dante and co to take on Azathoth.
They don't really need to talk about power levels. Just say that Mundus feared the new antagonists, and that Sparda was either unaware or unable to fight them. As long as the new antags aren't just some upstart that conquered Hell in Mundus' absence. That wouldn't be very exciting after how easily Berial died.
As for how they can handle things going forward with the multiple characters, anyone here read Hellboy? I like to think that Dante's colleagues could be like the B.P.R.D. in Hellboy, handling threats in the human world while Dante is in deeper shit.
Berial, what a waste of a good design.
As for how they can handle things going forward with the multiple characters, anyone here read Hellboy? I like to think that Dante's colleagues could be like the B.P.R.D. in Hellboy, handling threats in the human world while Dante is in deeper shit.
Berial, what a waste of a good design.
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
Easy, his human form looks more like Dante/Vergil.
At least when he was younger...
Son Of Sparda
Member
^^ Is that an official pic or fan made? I've seen it before a few times but don't know what the actual source is.
Sparda closed the gate around 2000 years before the events of DMC3, right? But Dante is only like what, 18 in that game? So with what you are saying Sparda would have been sticking around in human world for thousands of years before actually closing the gate and locking himself back into demon world.
While I think that what you are saying would be a very tragic and fitting end for Sparda, at the same time I don't see how it would be possible.
Sparda closed the gate around 2000 years before the events of DMC3, right? But Dante is only like what, 18 in that game? So with what you are saying Sparda would have been sticking around in human world for thousands of years before actually closing the gate and locking himself back into demon world.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I'm pretty sure it's for the original Resident Evil 4 (so that man isn't Sparda, but Spencer, who was the main villain of RE4 at one point).
RadioHammer500
Banned
i mean isn't it still debatable if Dante surpassed Sparda in power?
That originally came from the DMC Graphic Edition book.
Always loved that piece.
PensivePen said:
I definitely would be fine if they had Dante taking on something to the caliber of Warhammer 40K's Daemons.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Thanks. so It's an official art. Interesting.
DMC3 being on the PS2 and Mahvel being on 360/PS3 with a stellar art direction is probably why that happened. Just saying...
This monstrosity launched when I was in Sapporo. Seeing the commercials on the train for this made me sad. This was right after DmC launched, too. All I could think was, "Devil May Cry is dead". It looks even worse than I thought.
DMC1 was on PS2 as well and Sparda didn't look like a crackhead in that game. The DMC3 model is just garbage. That's why.
Fair point.
I kinda wish we were getting a training room with this rerelease (on consoles, you PC people and your debug modes are lucky). Guess that'll stay a DmC: Devil May Cry exclusive thing.
levyjl1988
Banned
Awesome, looks like well known games are getting remastered.
Eva might not necessarily have had a human lifespan - it's possible that Sparda lived in the human world with her for a thousand years, beneath notice due to his drastically weakened state, with Dante and Vergil only born recently. Sparda was hunted down by the legions of the reawakened Mundus shortly after their birth, with Eva following a few years later.
Involving actual angels or sending Dante to Paradiso would be too much, but nephilim or more fallen angels would work, either as regular bosses or major antagonists. Enemies based on Goetia demons could fit as well, especially with a visual interpretation similar to Kaneko's.
Speaking of which, I'd really like it if he contributed to the series again - it's not like he's working on anything else at the moment.
Astral Dog
Member
The curious thing is that Dante never fought a full powered Savior, the story made clear a few times that the Savior was "incomplete" or "flawed" wich is why Dante could beat it , i wonder how it would be if it was a Savior with Vergil ,another Dante, or something.
The Goetia demons are already kind of used, at least their names and probably some kind of inspiration, Bael, Barbas and Berial belong to this group.
Eva lived for hundreds of years because she was an Umbra Witch. Believe.
Hopefully not going forward. We absolutely need a training mode in DMC5, along with an advanced mechanics tutorial.
Hopefully not going forward. We absolutely need a training mode in DMC5, along with an advanced mechanics tutorial.
Good point. It would be interesting if Capcom gave him a call and had him involved with DMC5's art direction. I'd love to think that the notion that they've continued to use Kaneko's Vergil DT (and, of course, give him his credit) would be a sign that the possibility is still there.
With regards to Eva? Well, if we go with what Kamiya likely originally intended (and further alluded to in those old novels, VJ-PS2 and Bayo), she likely wasn't a "regular" human, anyway. Whether or not Itsuno and his crew will ever circle back to those plot points is something we'd have to wait and see about.
I do think that the whole thing between Eva and Trish possibly inheriting more beyond just her looks is something that's waiting to be explored more.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Jesus that is obnoxious.
Though see that makes me wish we could enemy surf as Nero through the streets of Fortuna.
Edit: Listening through that some more (the game in the link) they had Johnny Yong Bosch and Rueben Langdon record quite a few new lines. I'm actually surprised. Well, either new or those were scrapped lines.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I've been thinking, with everything that DMC borrowed from RE series it's a damn shame that they never bothered to implement the notes/files idea into DMC. Just imagine how much world building could have been done if the series had notes from the very first game. They could have told the history between Mundus and Sparda, the events before that, how Sparda and Eva met, hell they could have even introduced new demons and antagonists for later games.
Man I really hope they implement something similar in DMC5. It's a very cheap yet effect way for world building and telling back story of non-main characters.
Man I really hope they implement something similar in DMC5. It's a very cheap yet effect way for world building and telling back story of non-main characters.
Astral Dog
Member
Bayonetta does this so im not sure why its not on DMC 1, good way to flesh out the world, even if they are simple notes, you could have notes left by Arkham/Jester on DMC 3, or Antonio on DMC 1, or Agnus on DMC 4, hell even Sparda.
edit: still its true other priorities were in place for the DMC games, so lets wait, the models and demonds descriptions help a little.
Yeah, this much was a missed opportunity, and I remember throwing a suggestion for a "Wesker's Report" type of thing for Vergil a few topics ago. But I guess in the case of Kamiya with DMC, it was likely due to the fact that the game was going in a decidedly different direction from the Bio/RE series and so, any and all world-building was dependent on if the game was going to do well enough to get a sequel to begin with.
Meanwhile, Itsuno and his crew had to be focused on saving the series with DMC3 after 2, so they had other priorities in place.
Maybe with 5 we could get finally this, though. More in-game lore would be better than trying to tell everything in cutscenes, anyway.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Yeah, I really liked the DMC 1 enemy notes. Wish they'd have done that with DMC 3 and 4.
Astral Dog
Member
you mean the enemy descriptions? they did.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I know but I'm not talking about that kinda notes. When I say notes I mean stuff like Revelation 2 that give you a general idea about what happened in the past, what kind of person the
Overseer
badcrumble
Member
IIRC, Berial doesn't say that he's the new ruler of the demon world, it's phrased more like he's one of several, as though it's sort of fallen to turf wars in Mundus's absence. He calls himself the "conqueror of the Fire Hell," which is definitely not the entirety of the demon realm. (It's also possible that "conqueror" is a slight mistranslation and he's not so much the person who *conquered* that region of the demon realm so much as he's its foremost warrior or something).
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
The DMC1 notes are a lot more detailed; they get filled in as you fight enemies more and see more of their attacks. They give you tips on how to deal with them too; it's a really cool system.
AlfredX1990
Banned
Even if this is true, I wish Capcom never decides to revisit the Savior concept because I don't want to fight another Savior
badcrumble
Member
I don't think we will. Between DMC1, DMC4, and Bayonetta, the character action genre has seen a sufficient number of angelic statue final bosses.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Even then, Dante seemed to be fucking around most of that time. It was only near the end that we see Dante start to strain and that's because he's been fighting the thing to a stand still for a while so that Nero can wrap things up. Full Sparda power vs. Full power Dante would be completely up in the air, but I don't think Dante would be incapable of winning. Would definitely push him to the limit.