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Devil May Cry 4 SE: Vergil, Trish & Lady Playable, Release Date 18th of June
- Thread starter Flying Wonkey
- Start date
I don't get what you're trying to say here. They were able to add more playable characters, therefore they should be able to do way more alongside that? The new characters are clearly the main attraction, and that's where they spent most of their time and money. This isn't a new game, just some new ways to play an existing one.
People used to say that because it's a 7 year old game that it was unrealistic to expect many changes.
Well clearly that's not an issue when we are getting new characters now. They didn't have to give Trish and Lady but they did anyway.
It's a matter of opinion if having new playable characters is better than having some level redesign (or some new areas) for the game. My opinion on that is level changes benefit new players or more casual players who just play the game through once or twice where as more playable characters are meant for veterans.
In fact I would say that having more playable characters should've given them more incentive to look at the levels again. Can't wait to play the same areas and bosses 6 times now... (once as Nero, once as Dante, twice as Vergil, once as Lady and once as Trish)...
It's a matter of fixing the actual faults with the game and like many I feel that the game could've benefited a lot with changes to the level design.
There are at least a couple of changes to the level design and enemy placement though. There's a Blitz showing up in Nero's section of the forest level which doesn't show up on your first playthrough. Could be changes in enemy placement for higher difficulties. So this is not an unrealistic expectation (like doing away with the dice puzzle game and replacing it with a proper boss gauntlet).
AlfredX1990
Banned
But this edition is not aiming that audience at all, besides it takes a lot of time and money to redesign levels, things the team working on DMC4SE most likely don't have, or doing that alone would've taken a ton of time that would've prevented any new playable characters
At best expect minimum changes, at worst expect the same as vanilla DMC4
Why are you assuming you'll need to play through the story again for all the characters?
direct_quote
Member
Lol exactly what I was thinking. Capcom PR: "we know you guys loved the backtracking in DMC4 so now you get to do it 2 additional times!"
It takes a lot of time to make 3 new characters too and have them work (ie. be reasonable balanced) within the framework of an existing game.
I guess you can make the argument that you can beat the game once then go straight into Bloody Palace with the new characters. But then you would be playing BP with a crappy moveset...
Didn't it say in the PR that you need to beat the game at least once to unlock those characters?
I guess you can make the argument that you can beat the game once then go straight into Bloody Palace with the new characters. But then you would be playing BP with a crappy moveset...
direct_quote
Member
I think Gregaman said you could play them from the start in the podcast..
That's good to know then.
Although you can bet your candy ass that they will have achievements tied to beating story missions with all the characters.
http://www.gameskinny.com/dyjku/dev...d-and-includes-playable-vergil-lady-and-trish
This article confirms that DMC4SE will have Turbo mode (which is hardly shocking).
Although you can bet your candy ass that they will have achievements tied to beating story missions with all the characters.
http://www.gameskinny.com/dyjku/dev...d-and-includes-playable-vergil-lady-and-trish
This article confirms that DMC4SE will have Turbo mode (which is hardly shocking).
ShockingAlberto
Member
What they learn from the characters can be applied to the next game.
Making new levels is just doing work that is going into an HD remaster and not the next game.
Plus, DMC4 was always intended to have multiple characters and they ran out of time. It's probable they still had a lot of the work just sitting around unfinished. Not sure if that applies to levels from DMC4.
Making new levels is just doing work that is going into an HD remaster and not the next game.
Plus, DMC4 was always intended to have multiple characters and they ran out of time. It's probable they still had a lot of the work just sitting around unfinished. Not sure if that applies to levels from DMC4.
That's great, as expected. I remember enjoying the speed of the combat in 4, but Turbo will make it even better.
threelights
Member
Basically this. Levels would "fix" DMC4. Characters are going to improve DMC4 and give an extreme help to DMC5, as they won't have to use much of their budget or time to make the playable characters (which are by far the most in-depth stuff in a game like DMC).
PensivePen
Member
A potential DMC5 needs to be built with turbo mode in mind from the start. Going from playing 3 for years on turbo to the slowness of vanilla 4 was a bit annoying for awhile.
And I appreciate that they're focusing more on the characters for this release, it seems obvious that each of the new characters are being used as an opportunity to experiment with different types of gameplay.
And I appreciate that they're focusing more on the characters for this release, it seems obvious that each of the new characters are being used as an opportunity to experiment with different types of gameplay.
And another nice thing about that is that doing this makes it so that you don't have to try and cram another "Style" onto Dante (or otherwise giving him things that he doesn't need), while also meeting fan requests to make the likes of Vergil and Trish playable again and Lady gets to be playable for the first time.
direct_quote
Member
I still think Capcom could have cheaply tacked on another hallway in the city of Fortuna or in the castle to make it feel like there was some differences in Vergil's campaign... Hell Vergil could spend more time in Fortuna fortress with some alternative areas....
edit: I wonder how much time DmC Vergil campaign took to develop, because I figured if Capcom could justify sinking money into that, why not DMC4 Vergil?
edit: I wonder how much time DmC Vergil campaign took to develop, because I figured if Capcom could justify sinking money into that, why not DMC4 Vergil?
AlfredX1990
Banned
Wasn't DmC's DLC done entirely with Ninja Theory's budget?
DLCs are generally allotted budgets separate from the main game. I don't know if we have any confirmation one way or another.
Astral Dog
Member
I mean yes that would have been awesome, and with the Vergil dlc of DmC i was hoping they could expand on this game (with a few new missions for Vergil), even if the main campaign is the same, but its very clear Capcom was not willing to do that. (not even a fucking retail release)
Without new level content, hopefully this means DMC 5 is at a more advanced stage than everybody expects, so an announcement can be made soon enough that would make things better.
direct_quote
Member
To be honest I think the whole lack of a retail release was because Capcom wanted to make sure DmC would sell for longer (and DMC4 more popular in Japan which is why DMC4:SE got retail there and DmC less popular). So dumb consumer will see two devil may cry games on the shelf and not know which one to buy... They know the hardcore DMC fans know where to get DMC4:SE, plus they knew DMC4:SE had a large PC community so they choose to release it on PC too. Sucks, but I guess that's Capcom's logic in my mind..
Japan really isn't big on the digital side of things iirc, a physical release is pretty much a must there.
There's really not all that much lying around to use - isn't the sum total of cutscene-only areas basically the Yamato chamber and nothing else? Any changes to the main missions would require the creation of new content, unless they wanted to set up the entirety of Vergil's mode like Mission 13 - and at that point, there'd be no benefit gained from the restructure. I would like it if they moved around enemy spawn points a little for the new character's modes, though - if I recall; the castle's main hall, the cathedral, the first Heaven passage, the lower level of the storehouse, Agnus' lab, the laser hallway, the lower level of Foris Falls and the ground floor of the Saviour's chamber were never used for regular battles. And seeing as none of the new characters will have cutscenes for the boss battles, they'd be able to shift around bosses in addition to the regular enemies; which could make things a little less repetitive - though that probably isn't happening, seeing as the boss fights in the trailer occurred at the same locations as the original game.
If they're doing non-referential outfits, I definitely hope a few will be casual - it'd be nice to have a few options that aren't so overtly costume-ish, while still matching each character's aesthetic - in this case, even formalwear would count, as long as it's not a variant on a character's 'uniform'. The dresses from Bayonetta 2 were easily my favourite unlockables; a shame Balder never got anything similar.
Speaking of which, I actually tried to throw together a less awkward reskin of Lady's DMC4 outfit, so that I wouldn't have to endure the original while unlocking her other options. Though I probably have to change the colour scheme to be closer to her 3 outfit, because right now she looks a little too much like a DmC character.
Or I guess I could just go with a Claire Redfield palette...
The final floor of Bloody Palace would allow that, at least. Hopefully there's some way to make it more convenient; whether it's a floor select or boss rush option.
I wonder if her version will use regular or shadow Dante?
direct_quote
Member
If Lady wins... Heads will roll.. Not like I don't want to see her game play but I need to see Vergil first.
We'll probably see Vergil @ that Capcom livestream event on April 25-26th.
So according to SteamSpy, here are number of owners of DMC titles on Steam:
Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition
Devil May Cry 4
DmC
Super Combat Simulator 2 Turbo confirmed. *sigh*
Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition
Devil May Cry 4
DmC
Super Combat Simulator 2 Turbo confirmed. *sigh*
Truly unfortunate, but never a deal breaker.
Is there a link to this poll?
EDIT: I guess he's just counting up replies to his tweet?
Wouldn't mind Lady winning, she's the one we know the least about.
Sadly, feature de-creep is becoming a thing with the DMC series. Anyway, a bigger deal breaker would be no Boss Select. It would be sad if players will have to result to mods to get easy access to the bosses in 2015. Not to mention no changes to the dice game.
PensivePen
Member
Aside from its complete removal from the game I agree.
Actually I agree. I love forced puzzle mini games that kill the pacing of my action games.
I also love not fighting the best boss fight of the game again, instead fighting random mooks.
They don't need to alter it. They need to remove it. There is no need for it. No one likes it, and it serves no purpose.
direct_quote
Member
I'd say I'm Surprised DMC4 sold a decent amount on Steam given the fact that most people who bought it on PC probably bought it on disc (including me). DmC's numbers see pretty good too so I don't know why Capcom doesn't want to release DmC
E on PC..I have the feeling Lady will have more pieced together moves from Dante and will probably be less robust. But we'll see.. So I'd rather see Vergil talked about in depth in the beginning, then lady and Trish touched on later.
I actually don't think they need to remove it. It's just another room. It just so happens some people find this one especially tedious. It's technically a room with a very large amount of potential enemies to fight, it's just entirely optional to do so. I don't particularly like it, but it isn't that bad of a room. It really isn't.
Changes made to DmC have no bearing on the DMC series. This has been made abundantly clear by Gregaman with his tweets. Whatever happens with that game is separate and distinct, so I don't see it as a step back at all. I just see it as something that should be in, but isn't.
At the end of the day, I'm fine with them saving up their ideas, fixes, and money for DMC5.
There's been some indication that there will be multiple costumes for each character, and that they'll make a post about it when they're ready.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Then make the room auto spawn waves of enemies, and after a while, have us go into the boss. There is nothing good about the Dice. It's a hassle to use the exploit, newbies can potentially be stuck for quite a while, and it just slows the whole process down.
It certainly isn't optional. The encounters, yes, the but the entirety of the puzzle isn't.
And of course you don't like it. No one does. Removing it will correlate to the game becoming a tad amount better. It's not just another room. It's a room with a puzzle, a puzzle that slows the pacing of the game to a crawl, and further ruins a boss gauntlet by appearing multiple times.
There will be several costumes, but only Gloria and DMC3 Lady are confirmed so far. I'm certain those will be their only ones, considering those two costumes are their most prominent alternate looks.
Then I guess Grim Trick shouldn't be in DMC4SE. Improvements to the formula are still improvements, regardless of which iteration they appear in.
If you two say so. I don't like it, but I don't dislike it either. Because it actually isn't that bad. I wouldn't miss it if it was removed, but I don't have a problem with it staying.
Every instance of the boss rush, as incredibly inelegant as it may be, can be reached with, except MAYBE one instance, a single hit of the die. New players won't have any idea how it works, and that sucks, but I still think it's fine.
Also, I totally never said the room itself was optional. But this discussion will only ever go in a circle, so ah well.
Every instance of the boss rush, as incredibly inelegant as it may be, can be reached with, except MAYBE one instance, a single hit of the die. New players won't have any idea how it works, and that sucks, but I still think it's fine.
Also, I totally never said the room itself was optional. But this discussion will only ever go in a circle, so ah well.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
I guess I'm just not getting why you don't want it removed despite admitting that newer players are screwed over and most veterans will skip it. It's supposed to be a boss rush. The extra added step of the dice just elongates the level.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt that the die game is easily skippable if you know how to handle it. But that's why it should be removed; it's just a waste of time. Once you know how to manipulate the outcome, getting the number you want is just tedious busywork.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be in or can't be added. I'm saying that it's not a precedent or regression. Which it's not. DmC is not DMC. These are not the same "formulas".
Basically. There's nothing of value added here. It doesn't provide gameplay diversity and it handicaps the pacing. The only good things to come out of the dice game are (A) the continuation and consistency of the gambling theme and (B) the Dante subversion of the dice game where he destroys it.
I don't think either of those things are worth the hassle.
I feel really sorry for those 160,000 people. The difference in quality between Capcom's PS2-era and MT Framework ports can't be overstated - a shame 3 never got a decent second port, as with RE4...
I don't think there's anything right now, but there apparently is some work being done on implementing it by the same person who did the style decay, null orb collection rank and Quicksilver mods. Hopefully it'll be usable soon.
PensivePen
Member
The style switcher does at least fix most of the gameplay related issues.
I mean, you still have to delete the music folder for the game to run decently on most computers. And the graphics are still worse than the PS2 version. And it still has the odd glitch here and there. But it is playable now. Man what an awful port.