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[TreIII]

Never saw that as an issue and still dont *shrug*

From the wiki:

Right, and I acknowledge that. But again, the novel paints the picture that Kyrie and Credo's parents adopted him while working in the orphanage (because his haircolor reminded them of Sparda's) and introduced him to their own children when they were all very young. That likely would've been enough time for Nero to see Kyrie as his sister, just as much as Credo, who taught him swordplay, would be his brother.

It's not like it really matters in the grand scheme of things, but I always saw that as bit...eyebrow-raising, to say the least.

 

[GuardianE]

Right, and I acknowledge that. But again, the novel paints the picture that Kyrie and Credo's parents adopted him while working in the orphanage (because his haircolor reminded them of Sparda's) and introduced him to their own children when they were all very young. That likely would've been enough time for Nero to see Kyrie as his sister, just as much as Credo, who taught him swordplay, would be his brother.

It's not like it really matters in the grand scheme of things, but I always saw that as bit...eyebrow-raising, to say the least.

That's really not terribly controversial or taboo considering the potential Oedipal complex that is the Trish and Dante relationship.

 

[Akiller]

Oh come on, it's just for gameplay reasons.

Guess it's time to give Kyrie the MGS4 Rose treatment.

Fixed.

By the way, I redid that Lady reskin in the style of RE2 Claire, with Kyrie's hairstyle.
I'm surprised by how decent the results are.



Also, I had no idea there were finished model imports of Raiden and Sam. Barring some issues with the hair transparency, they work pretty well. A shame voice files can't be edited at the moment.





It does seem more in-character for him to stay - unless they fridge Kyrie, he doesn't have any particular reason to leave, especially if the town's still a demon magnet and anybody even remotely competent is dead. His presence in 5 could be justified in a similar manner to MGR Raiden's reason for working as a PMC, but that would depend on when 5 is set; hopefully, they'll finally decide to just skip ahead to after 2, keeping Lucia and ignoring everything else.

God bless mods.Can't wait for a complete Trish Bayonetta mod.

I've always imagined DMC5 set many years after 4 , with a time-skipped Nero who has become commander of Fortuna defense force against demons.

 

[GuardianE]

Fixed.

Rose was still Rose, though. If we ever get an MGR2, I'd like to see what Platinum does with Rose. As she is now? Snorefest.

 

[BadWolf]

Fixed.

I meant to turn her into a badass so we have 3 male and 3 female playable characters.

She could be rocking a rapier or something and be a mage type.

 

[TreIII]

That's really not terribly controversial or taboo considering the potential Oedipal complex that is the Trish and Dante relationship.

And that's a whole other can of worms, admittedly, haha.

 

[Golnei]

And that's a whole other can of worms, admittedly, haha.

Half of the reason why I want a Bayonetta / DMC crossover is so Jeanne can use the "do you like it when he calls you mummy" line on Trish.

I meant to turn her into a badass so we have 3 male and 3 female playable characters.

She could be rocking a rapier or something.

Personally I'd much prefer Lucia as the third playable female character, but something could be done with Kyrie. Credo's sword survived his disintegration, so if you really wanted to you could bullshit an explanation for Kyrie having the ability to use it to channel his Angelo form, after learning swordsmanship to better defend Fortuna with Nero. Though it seems like too much trouble when Lucia has far more potential, as well as being much more distinct from the current cast visually and not requiring as many plot contortions.

God bless mods.Can't wait for a complete Trish Bayonetta mod.

I've always imagined DMC5 set many years after 4 , with a time-skipped Nero who has become commander of Fortuna defense force against demons.

But does he inherit the pope hat?

I'll give a Bayonetta mod a try, but I''ll need to look into how model importing works in DMC4 first - in the meantime, Shuraba and Onyx Roses mods exist, and I've mocked up a decent Scarborough Fair and Love is Blue skin for Blue Rose. I'm definitely going to attempt an Eva costume as well.

 

[AlfredX1990]

I meant to turn her into a badass so we have 3 male and 3 female playable characters.

She could be rocking a rapier or something and be a mage type.

I've been thinking for a while that DMC5 should have a mage type playable character but certainly not Kyrie

 

[TreIII]

Half of the reason why I want a Bayonetta / DMC crossover is so Jeanne can use the "do you like it when he calls you mummy" line on Trish.

Pffffffffffffft. Got a few chuckles from me at my desk.

I've been thinking for a while that DMC5 should have a mage type playable character but certainly not Kyrie

Agreed. If anybody could stand to be the "completely normal human" in this cast, it's Kyrie.

That said, a wizard/mage moveset would be nice to see. Namely, if it revolved around summons in a way we haven't seen in DMC before.

 

[badcrumble]

Regarding 'mage' sort of stuff - Lady's already going to be doing lots of ranged damage and Trish is already going to be getting lots of 'passive damage' trap stuff. Not sure what else could be done there, really, unless the series goes full co-op and you have a character focused fully on support or something (which would be... really weird). I think the series thrives too much on making you actually engage enemies; summoning something else to do the fighting for you would both go heavily against that sort of spirit *and* make it more difficult to be really stylish. I think Doppelganger is about the most we'll see in that regard.

 

[Sesha]

Introduce Vergil's baby momma and have her be a witch. Or have some sort of flashback event with Eva and Sparda and have Eva use spells and long-range attacks. Or give Dante a more concrete love interest and have her be a witch.

Regarding 'mage' sort of stuff - Lady's already going to be doing lots of ranged damage and Trish is already going to be getting lots of 'passive damage' trap stuff. Not sure what else could be done there, really, unless the series goes full co-op and you have a character focused fully on support or something (which would be... really weird). I think the series thrives too much on making you actually engage enemies; summoning something else to do the fighting for you would both go heavily against that sort of spirit *and* make it more difficult to be really stylish. I think Doppelganger is about the most we'll see in that regard.

A summoning style could work if it was somewhat similar to Chaos Legion.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be in or can't be added. I'm saying that it's not a precedent or regression. Which it's not. DmC is not DMC. These are not the same "formulas".

I disagree, but whatever.

Personally I'd much prefer Lucia as the third playable female character, but something could be done with Kyrie. Credo's sword survived his disintegration, so if you really wanted to you could bullshit an explanation for Kyrie having the ability to use it to channel his Angelo form, after learning swordsmanship to better defend Fortuna with Nero. Though it seems like too much trouble when Lucia has far more potential, as well as being much more distinct from the current cast visually and not requiring as many plot contortions.

Agreed about Lucia. Revamp her moveset slightly and expand on it, give her some unique mechanics and we're good to go. Her design is one of the few good things left from DMC2 that hasn't been salvaged from that mess. Just have her be some clone or experiment done by the Order, explaining her Angel Trigger. By doing so they could finally wipe DMC2 from the continuity.

And screw Kyrie. I'm tired of white-as-the-driven-snow characters. While I'm not opposed to the idea of a rapier-wielding Kyrie with Angel Ascension mode, I don't think she's worth the effort.

 

[badcrumble]

A summoning style could work if it was somewhat similar to Chaos Legion.

Eh, maybe. I'll be honest - I'm already slightly worried about the way Lady looks to play. Rolling around a safe distance from enemies while chipping and AoEing them to death doesn't sound like a workable premise for challenging combat, or at least not until we get a game designed from the ground up to assume that one of the playable characters works that way. I really hope she does some Bayo-style melee attacks with firearms, or that close-up shotgun attacks are really important to doing well with her, because it's absolutely essential to give the player an incentive to actually get right up in the enemy's face.

Granted, for future games, I *do* think it'd be good for them to design much more aggressive enemies with more teleportation, more ranged attacks, and so on, precisely to make it still challenging to stay out of the way and use ranged attacks to win. If they do that, so that characters using lots of ranged/trap damage are just as vulnerable as characters going for a melee-first approach, then great.

 

[Sesha]

Eh, maybe. I'll be honest - I'm already slightly worried about the way Lady looks to play. Rolling around a safe distance from enemies while chipping and AoEing them to death doesn't sound like a workable premise for challenging combat, or at least not until we get a game designed from the ground up to assume that one of the playable characters works that way. I really hope she does some Bayo-style melee attacks with firearms, or that close-up shotgun attacks are really important to doing well with her, because it's absolutely essential to give the player an incentive to actually get right up in the enemy's face.

Granted, for future games, I *do* think it'd be good for them to design much more aggressive enemies with more teleportation, more ranged attacks, and so on, precisely to make it still challenging to stay out of the way and use ranged attacks to win. If they do that, so that characters using lots of ranged/trap damage are just as vulnerable as characters going for a melee-first approach, then great.

Check out Magoichi from Sengoku Basara for an idea of how Lady can work. Bayonetta-like gunkata could work, as would power slides ala Bulletstorm/Vanquish/Revengeance. She needs at least a couple of moves that function as short range melee attacks.
I think a long range-only character could work, but the simplest solution would be that every character has short range melee attacks to balance out their ranged and other options.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Fixed.

Boobs that jiggle when the controller is moved?

Spoiler

Yes, that's my only memory of Rose in MGS4.

 

[badcrumble]

Check out Magoichi from Sengoku Basara for an idea of how Lady can work. Bayonetta-like gunkata could work, as would power slides ala Bulletstorm/Vanquish/Revengeance. She needs at least a couple of moves that function as short range melee attacks.
I think a long range-only character could work, but the simplest solution would be that every character has short range melee attacks to balance out their ranged and other options.

Oh, I'm not worried about the offensive side of Lady's gameplay at all. I'm much more worried that she'll feel kinda overpowered precisely because of her ability to keep out of range a lot of the time (and that Basara video does show minibosses basically being defeated from a safe distance with minimal engagement).

 

[Arjac]

But Vergil is already dead :smugface:

On a scale of 1-10 how bad would it be if they retconned vergil to be alive here
1 being "it's fine"
10 being "series ruined forever"

 

[TreIII]

Oh, I'm not worried about the offensive side of Lady's gameplay at all. I'm much more worried that she'll feel kinda overpowered precisely because of her ability to keep out of range a lot of the time (and that Basara video does show minibosses basically being defeated from a safe distance with minimal engagement).

The flipside is that Magoichi usually takes more damage than the rest of the cast and doesn't have too many answers for getting swamped at melee range, which pretty much means that she has to play good ranged or suffers the consequences. If you do drop the ball and don't exercise effective crowd control with her tools, she'll quickly get poked to death on higher difficulties, where even the basic mooks don't stop swinging and can kill you in 1-3 hits.

So, to me, it's a decent payoff, and one that I could definitely see working well for Lady, too. You get rewarded for playing well to her strengths.

 

[direct_quote]

On a scale of 1-10 how bad would it be if they retconned vergil to be alive here
1 being "it's fine"
10 being "series ruined forever"

You forgot 0 = it needs to happen. He's been gone for too long and has built quite a fan base so Capcom would be stupid not to include him in DMC5 some how... Could easily make a preorder bonus Vergil campaign for DMC5 that many would bite onto (not DahBomb though).

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Check out Magoichi from Sengoku Basara for an idea of how Lady can work. Bayonetta-like gunkata could work, as would power slides ala Bulletstorm/Vanquish/Revengeance. She needs at least a couple of moves that function as short range melee attacks.
I think a long range-only character could work, but the simplest solution would be that every character has short range melee attacks to balance out their ranged and other options.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck we need a localization of Basara 4.

 

[GuardianE]

Have they announced a streaming schedule yet?

 

[TreIII]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck we need a localization of Basara 4.

Don't I wish. But I think that ship sailed awhile ago, and I'd be surprised if Capcom tried again.

Though, if they were at all interested in doing so, closely marketing SB4:Sumeragi with DMC4:SE, like they're doing in Japan, would be the best way to do it.

 

[Akiller]

Have they announced a streaming schedule yet?

Are you talking about the late april event?I haven't heard anything about a streaming schedule yet but they're pushing that Basara 4 vs. DMC4SE show.

 

[paolo11]

You forgot 0 = it needs to happen. He's been gone for too long and has built quite a fan base so Capcom would be stupid not to include him in DMC5 some how... Could easily make a preorder bonus Vergil campaign for DMC5 that many would bite onto (not DahBomb though).

Hell yeah!!! I want Vergil to be alive.

 

[BadWolf]

Oh, I'm not worried about the offensive side of Lady's gameplay at all. I'm much more worried that she'll feel kinda overpowered precisely because of her ability to keep out of range a lot of the time (and that Basara video does show minibosses basically being defeated from a safe distance with minimal engagement).

Yeah the vast majority of, if not all, enemies and bosses in the game are designed to be a threat at close range and aren't all that dangerous at long range. Which is one of the reasons that Nero's Charge Shot 3 owns the game so much.

 

[Sesha]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck we need a localization of Basara 4.

Better yet, SB4 Sumeragi needs a localization.

I wish the move sets of Kyogoku Maria, Otomo Sorin, Takenaka Hanbei, Chosokabe Motochika, Honda Tadakatsu, Kuroda Kanbee, Otani Yoshitsugu and Oichi could find their way into DMC somehow. We sort of have Oda Nobunaga (Nero), Tokugawa Ieyasu (Beowulf/Gilgamesh), Magoichi (Gunslinger, Lady) and Ishida Mitsunari (Vergil) already.

 

[Akiller]

Man, looks like i really need to play those Basara games .__. I bought a cheap used copy of Samurai Heroes at my local GS like 2 months ago.

 

[Sesha]

Man, looks like i really need to play those Basara games .__. I bought a cheap used copy of Samurai Heroes at my local GS like 2 months ago.

I recommend checking out Samurai Warriors 4, Dynasty Warriors 8, Warriors Orochi 3 and Hyrule Warriors if you can. The Warriors games have gradually become more weird and out there. Not as much as the Basara games, but the character designs are usually better, they add more characters per game and come out more frequently, meaning there's always a ton of content. Not to mention they are actually released in the West.

One of the characters in SW4 dual wields giant chainsaws

It's so stupid but awesome.

 

[Akiller]

I enjoyed Hyrule Warriors and i heard Basara has a deeper combat than average musou games.

 

[Mecha]

I recommend checking out Samurai Warriors 4, Dynasty Warriors 8, Warriors Orochi 3 and Hyrule Warriors if you can. The Warriors games have gradually become more weird and out there. Not as much as the Basara games, but the character designs are usually better, they add more characters per game and come out more frequently, meaning there's always a ton of content. Not to mention they are actually released in the West.

One of the characters in SW4 dual wields giant chainsaws


It's so stupid but awesome.

Koei character designs are usually pretty bland to me, Samurai Warriors has more characters but far less depth.

 

[One_San]

Basara has the deepest musou gameplay. (And also has a character that dual wields chain saws.)

 

[Dahbomb]

Every time this gets bumped I expect new game play footage...

 

[FollowTheWind]

What are some of the best DMC4 guides? Like DmC is pretty straight forwards but DMC4 really is more difficult, things like jump cancels etc... which I never heard of in my first play through.

I wanna hit those SSS (SSSSSSMOKIN) ranks!!

 

[Sesha]

Koei character designs are usually pretty bland to me, Samurai Warriors has more characters but far less depth.

YMMV. Basara cranks up the anime tropes to 11, and thus the designs end up looking too much like generic animu trash. Compare Kyogoku Maria with Koshosho. Both are scarf wielding characters, but one of them looks like they came out of Bleach, and the other looks like they came out of One Piece or Seven Deadly Sins. IMO there are no characters in Basara that are as awesome-looking as Hisahide Matsunaga or Kanbei Kuroda. But I'll give Basara points for having a much more unique version of Toyotomi Hideyoshi than SW.

Every time this gets bumped I expect new game play footage...

We really need a DMC / character action game community thread.

 

[BadWolf]

What are some of the best DMC4 guides? Like DmC is pretty straight forwards but DMC4 really is more difficult, things like jump cancels etc... which I never heard of in my first play through.

I wanna hit those SSS (SSSSSSMOKIN) ranks!!

Dante:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YALYaSVjyBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIc5m6PwNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYh-qMn6UNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_fABSqeAI

Nero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFNnz29VFk

In general:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1zbLydHKmo

 

[robotzombie]

I enjoyed Hyrule Warriors and i heard Basara has a deeper combat than average musou games.

Much deeper, and the best part is you aren't tied down by combo "strings". More importantly, Basara characters are extremely diverse both gameplay and design-wise, they really make the effort to not add a character unless they are seriously bringing something new to the table, and the results have been amazing.

 

[FollowTheWind]

Dante:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YALYaSVjyBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOIc5m6PwNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYh-qMn6UNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K_fABSqeAI

Nero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwFNnz29VFk

In general:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1zbLydHKmo

Fantastic!!! Thank you! Lol at 4 dante guides and 1 Nero, poor Nero

 

[TreIII]

I enjoyed Hyrule Warriors and i heard Basara has a deeper combat than average musou games.

That it does.

Tetsuo9999's footage, for example (even uses the SB4 DMC collab outfits).

And here's some Japanese SB3Utage combo vids in a playlist, from a few years ago.

The majority of Koei designs are really forgettable to me, Sengoku Basara designs are at least recognizable.

Also helps that the original BASARA character design was none other than Makoto Tsuchibayashi (DMC1 character designer).

 

[Mecha]

YMMV. Basara cranks up the anime tropes to 11, and thus the designs end up looking too much like generic animu trash. Compare Kyogoku Maria with Koshosho. Both are scarf wielding characters, but one of them looks like they came out of Bleach, and the other looks like they came out of One Piece or Seven Deadly Sins. IMO there are no characters in Basara that are as awesome-looking as Hisahide Matsunaga or Kanbei Kuroda. But I'll give Basara points for having a much more unique version of Toyotomi Hideyoshi than SW.



We really need a DMC / character action game community thread.

The majority of Koei designs are really forgettable to me, Sengoku Basara designs are at least recognizable. I will say that they have become more recognizable as the various series have progressed, but they are getting more "animu" too.

 

[badcrumble]

The flipside is that Magoichi usually takes more damage than the rest of the cast and doesn't have too many answers for getting swamped at melee range, which pretty much means that she has to play good ranged or suffers the consequences. If you do drop the ball and don't exercise effective crowd control with her tools, she'll quickly get poked to death on higher difficulties, where even the basic mooks don't stop swinging and can kill you in 1-3 hits.

So, to me, it's a decent payoff, and one that I could definitely see working well for Lady, too. You get rewarded for playing well to her strengths.

Sure, but I think it'd be a tremendously awful idea for DMC to have different characters take different levels of damage from the same attack. Extremely bad precedent to set.

Likewise, DMC's always gonna have a reasonably good set of tools for evading your way out of things because it's pretty generous about allowing the player to cancel into moves with invincibility frames, even if the actual amount of invincibility frames is generally kept pretty low. DMC doesn't really let you get stunlocked, nor should it.

Also, DMC's much more about smaller numbers of enemies (outside of LDK mode, of course) with more advanced behavior. It's difficult to get 'swamped' by them, really.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I can not get into the Samurai Basura games. I don't like the game play too much but I strangely prefer the Dynasty Warriors games. The DW's games I like the character design and story more with the gameplay being servicable. I don't care for the Basura desgins at all. Why is Magoichi a chick? Cause Japan?

 

[Akiller]

So, are they still recording?

 

[GuardianE]

Are you talking about the late april event?I haven't heard anything about a streaming schedule yet but they're pushing that Basara 4 vs. DMC4SE show.

Yeah, I meant a weekly stream schedule, but I guess they won't do anything until after the April event? That makes sense.

 

[JayEH]

So, are they still recording?

Maybe they are just dubbing the Japanese right now. I think DMC usually is English first when it comes to voice over.

 

[Sesha]

Maybe they are just dubbing the Japanese right now. I think DMC usually is English first when it comes to voice over.

That's what the Twitter post is about.

Slightly related, but has it been mentioned that Lady's voice actor (Kari Wahlgren) has been replaced with Kate Higgins?

 

[paolo11]

Ok, Gregaman confirmed that Vergil mode is set prior to the events of DMC3.



https://twitter.com/fingersmaloy/status/585846501626122240

 

[Sephzilla]

but he shouldn't have beowulf or force edge!

i know its just for gameplay reasons but it makes my inner nerd ache

 

[Dahbomb]

Ok, Gregaman confirmed that Vergil mode is set prior to the events of DMC3.

https://twitter.com/fingersmaloy/status/585846501626122240

It's just the two cutsenes... the actual "game play" is still non canonical.

i know its just for gameplay reasons but it makes my inner nerd ache

Yeah like Vergil in DMC3SE fighting "red" Vergil...

 

[paolo11]

It's just the two cutsenes... the actual "game play" is still non canonical.



Yeah like Vergil in DMC3SE fighting "red" Vergil...

Yeah, I kinda thought it was after DMC1.

 

[BadWolf]

I'm sure most thought it already but at this point it's obvious his cutscenes will be Nero related.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

That's what the Twitter post is about.

Slightly related, but has it been mentioned that Lady's voice actor (Kari Wahlgren) has been replaced with Kate Higgins?

Never was Wahlgren in DMC 4 to begin with. It was Laura Napoli, who also did Kyrie. I think they just had her voice match Wahlgren to the best of her ability.