DMC1-4 + DmC DE all on PS4/XB1/PC. I can dig that.
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Devil May Cry 4 Special Edition |OT| Two girls, one motivated Vergil
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Son Of Sparda
Member
Yeah. I would love to have the entire series on PS4. (Including DE)
They could even throw a DMC5 demo in there for good measures and gather a little bit of feedback through that. (think of XV's Duscae demos or Nioh betas)
That's my hope. The momentum gained from DmC DE and DMC4SE has mostly dissipated at this point.
VashTSB new video on "Beat-em-ups in the 8th generation"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DiKd-m7Sas&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DiKd-m7Sas&feature=youtu.be
It's an ARPG, and the producers and director claims the game will have more roleplaying than action, and they've said the combat will be simpler. So it will be closer to MGR than Bayonetta. But the combat looks legit from what we've seen. It looks like Platinum took the basic combat from NieR and injected purified Platinum into it. It's got the standard Platinum stuff:
- light/heavy attack. Combos aren't dial-up but function like MGR.
- multiple weapons w/ some form of switching. So far we've seen a katana, a broadsword, gauntlets, and a spear.
- a dodge which can be turned into a dash by pushing in a direction. The dodge has a just frame variant that makes the player invincible for a short time.
I think there's also special attacks since we've seen roundtrip-like moves with the broadsword, but I don't know if that's been talked about. Besides the expected Platinum basics, there's new stuff based on the NieR universe like upgradeable drones that function like Vergil's Summon Swords that can fire bullets, lasers and more. There's also what seems to be magic attacks, but I'm not sure if they've talked about it.
So it is an action RPG, but it's an action RPG with combat done by Platinum.
Overall, I feel pretty jazzed about it.
Nice. Loved MGR and Nier (albeit for different reasons) so a marriage between the two sounds great. Eagerly looking forward to that demo on the 22nd.
LOL what beat me ups?
Tldr version of that video: Itsuno-sama who art thou in heaven, please save us from all these mediocre action games.
If someone is that hungry for hack and slash and beat em ups there's Sengoku Basara 4, Sanada Yukimura-den and the upcoming Malicious sequel. There's a couple of indies out besides Furi and Mitsurugi Kamui Hikae, and a bunch more in development.
AAA 3D melee action games that aren't ARPG are dead. DMC5, Ninja Gaiden 4, Bayonetta 3 and Darksiders 3 could potentially all happen within the next 3-4 years, but that would be the only ones ever unless someone hires Platinum to do something.
So yes, Itsuno-sama, please save us.
I should mention that the lead designer of MGR is also one of the lead designers on Automata.
AAA 3D melee action games that aren't ARPG are dead. DMC5, Ninja Gaiden 4, Bayonetta 3 and Darksiders 3 could potentially all happen within the next 3-4 years, but that would be the only ones ever unless someone hires Platinum to do something.
So yes, Itsuno-sama, please save us.
I should mention that the lead designer of MGR is also one of the lead designers on Automata.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Haven't seen the video yet but does he talk about Yakuza? Cause that's like the only legit beat-em-up that I know about in this generation (and probably the last. Minus maybe Asura's Wrath and to some degree Remember Me).
Or is this about melee character action games and just has a wrong title?
Yakuza was mentioned in passing.
Dude loves to harp about Transformers when it's in fact a middling action game too. Better than TMNT but no where as good as MGR or Bayonetta. Like we are really thirsty at this point if we are clinging on to low budget, low skill cap license outsourced PG games.
direct_quote
Member
Even when DMC5 comes out not like the genre is ever looking up again. DMC5 might be the last great action game we get. The age of stylish action games is pretty much coming to a close.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Oh, so as I thought it was more about character action games than actual Beat em Ups (successors to stuff like Streets of Rage). I know I'm sounding like a broken record but at least when it comes to Beat em Ups we have Yakuza which is a quality series. The problem is just that many people don't know much about it and mistake it for some Japanese GTA clone.
But yeah, character action games are in a really bad place. Besides Nier Automata (which I think will have more RPG/Nier elements than most people realize) we don't really have anything to look forward to at the moment. Man, I wish at least CC2 could get their hands on Berserk and made a good action game out of that. Or even try to make a new action game. I think they have the potential to become the next solid studio in action genre. They just need to get away from Naruto series and that style of gameplay.
direct_quote
Member
Like actual legit rumors?
There were just some interviews where Hayashi said that the series isn't dead and they have some stuff in mind.
Composer Yamagishi was apparently working on a Ninja Gaiden related project, but unfortunately confirmed that it wasn't a new game.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I feel like they have the potential. They are just stuck on their Naruto design so much that they even used that in Asura's Wrath. I think if they move away from that style of gameplay they can achieve good things in the genre.
Another dev that I could've seen do well (eventually), was Dontnod. Remember Me had some very good ideas that just weren't executed that well. Which was understandable since it was their first action game. Though, they decided to go for that TellTale storytelling with LiS, so I guess they've given up on making traditional action games. (Vampyr doesn't look like one either)
Lastly, I think NT has a huge potential but what they are doing with Hellblade just doesn't seem good. Though, I guess they have another big unannounced project that Rahni Tucker (DmC's combat designer and DE's director) has been working on for the past 3 years, so hopefully that'll turn out to be something more in line with traditional action games.
I remember one of the interviews about DoAX3 had a tease about a new big project using the same engine as that game
(without the butt physics tech cause apparently it was too heavy for this new game)
After ninja gaiden 3, not entirely sure I even want a ninja gaiden 4. Although razors edge and ni-oh shows that team ninja still know how to make a decent action game.
Disgusting. They have one of the few readily available solutions for soft body butt physics, and they'd so easily throw it away for the same boob jiggle implementation they've been pushing for a decade. And since fanservice with relatively high production values seems to only be getting rarer with Japan's shrinking console industry and subsequently smaller available budgets, they're only being rewarded for their complacency.
J_Macgrady
Member
At least it will probably sell a lot because it'll be the only game in the genre on PS4/Xbox One.
Kamiya said he wanted to make Bayonetta 3. I have no problems buying another Nintendo console for the series because Bayonetta 1 and DMC3SE are tied as my favs ever, but I kinda hope Sony tries to pick it up. Doubt it though
Son Of Sparda
Member
I guess it really depends on what kind of game they were talking about. If it indeed was NG then I can understand the comment on it being too heavy to use in the game. After all, performance makes or breaks an action game so they need to make sure that the game will be able to maintain a good performance. I mean, boob jiggle is a female-only tech so they probably can get away with it as long as there aren't that many female characters on the screen at the same time. Butt physics on the other would be implemented on all characters, thus it'll demand more power.
I think TN themselves probably want to use their soft body techs as much as they can since they are the ones who made it to begin with. But I can understand if they need to be selective about which titles they use this tech in.
I'm personally hoping for a spiritual successor to DmC's gameplay. Though, I definitely wouldn't want a DmC2 before DMC5.
Right now, I need Itsuno made action in my veins.
To be fair, "Beat-em-ups" is a much broader term than character action
He just said that he misses having games starring a cool dude with a big sword beating the shit out of ppl
I can see that
The 6th generation of video games featured lots and lots of games like that (some were underrated imo like Shinobi & Bujingai the forsaken city)
while the 7th & 8th were full of Nathan Drakes & RPG's
A bit of both
Just so we're absolutely clear...this is a joke, right?
Son Of Sparda
Member
I wanted to add a spoiler at the end but I thought it was obvious lol
Second time I got someone with DoAX3 posts this year 
Last time was with "on the fly grope switching" for the VR mode, rofl
Last time was with "on the fly grope switching" for the VR mode, roflYeah, all signs point to that Ninja Ryu is likely going to be next to get his due, after this part of Team Ninja finishes up with Nioh. After they finish strongly and prove themselves (again) with that game, I'd be more than happy to see what they can do next.
Hell, I'd even go to repeat what I said about how his appearance in Musou Stars is just another thing making sure that Ninja Ryu stays somewhat relevant with a causal audience, until he makes a proper showing in his next title.
I wanted to add a spoiler at the end but I thought it was obvious lol
Second time I got someone with DoAX3 posts this year
I was mostly sure, but people tend to get strangely earnest about DoA.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Hahaha, that's true. And honestly that's exactly why it's a good game to make such posts about
J_Macgrady
Member
direct_quote
Member
What is that app? Probably means DmC...
Son Of Sparda
Member
Should we make a new thread? We should make a new thread.
Though.... where did you even get that pic from?
Edit: Yeah, it's probably DmC.
https://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/
Son Of Sparda
Member
Hahaha. It's most likely DmC though. I mean look at the list in their first page. All older, released games and then there is DMC5.Totally thread worthy. Not a single bollywood gif, son I am disappoint
https://www.flawlesswidescreen.org/
DantesLink
Member
Looking at the site, the cogs are replaced with thumbnails. DMC5 is using DmC's.
Come on guys, pack it up. XD
Son Of Sparda
Member
Man, even Dynasty Warriors is going OW
. Hopefully Itsuno & Co will manage to avoid the OW disease that has been going around in the industry for a while now.
Edit:^^ Yep, no doubt about it. They are talking about DmC.
(though that's probably a good thing for that series)
Edit:^^ Yep, no doubt about it. They are talking about DmC.
Instead of making the AI better or the combat/physics or the level design... they are instead making it even more wide and barren to fill with even more enemies that you can mow down.
If my interest for a new DW game was a 1/10 now, then it's a -1/10 now. I actively do not want to hear anything about it and will mentally block it out.
If my interest for a new DW game was a 1/10 now, then it's a -1/10 now. I actively do not want to hear anything about it and will mentally block it out.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I mean at least going OW means that they HAVE to change the level structure of these games so that alone should make it more interesting.
I don't think we'll ever get better AIs in "1vs.1000" games though. (I feel like) having brain dead AIs is one of the staples of that genre and what makes the games work, since you can't keep an eye on 20-30 enemies at the same time.
I don't think we'll ever get better AIs in "1vs.1000" games though. (I feel like) having brain dead AIs is one of the staples of that genre and what makes the games work, since you can't keep an eye on 20-30 enemies at the same time.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Having too good of an AI would make these games impossible to play through. It's very different than when you are facing 6-7 enemies in DMC/Bayo/NG. In Musou titles you could literally go against 70-80 (and even more) enemies at the same time.
If they wanna improve on AI then they need to cut down on enemy count. I would personally love that, but I can see why they might not want to do that.
If they wanna improve on AI then they need to cut down on enemy count. I would personally love that, but I can see why they might not want to do that.
Nice entry! I always appreciate seeing stuff with Lady.
There's no denying the cluster fuck that was NG3, and Razor's Edge was just a bandaid slovenly placed over a cancerous growth. That said, they realized they fucked up and I'm willing to give them another chance. Just one.
I agree. There are even references in the ni-oh betas to Ninja Gaiden characters. If Ni-Oh succeeds (which I'm totally optimistic it will), it only reinforces for them that action gameplay focused titles are really worth investing into.
Since enemy numbers is such a pivotal part of musou, I'm wondering of they can't approach AI a little differently. Have AI be centered around group formation and leader characters ordering the underlings in staggered attacks or defensive positions... kind of like Alto Angelos on a larger scale. That way, you're not necessarily sacrificing the large scale warefare, and the difficulty is manageable because units will fall apart at the break oF formation or loss of leaders. I don't have a ton of experience in musou, so this might not work. Just a thought.
Son Of Sparda
Member
They actually have a similar concept going on in PW3 for some of the smaller units. Though the AI is still very bare bones and rarely goes on the offense (main focus of those groups are on defense). Actually, it's been a long while since I played one of the main entries in DW series so maybe they have a more advanced version of this in those games? At any rate, it's a solid idea and one that they've obviously thought up. So hopefully we see something more substantial out of it in DW9.
And for better or worse, Team Ninja and KT have been showing that they're doing pretty well when it comes to responding to fan feedback (for the most part). I'd have every bit of confidence that Ninja Ryu' would be treated much better next time around.
My ideal hope is that Nioh and Ninja Gaiden could either be consecutively alternating "main" franchises for Team Ninja's action game team to tend to on a cyclical basis, or that at least Ninja Gaiden gets one good entrant per generation that could be built upon for years while Nioh gets in on the Souls bandwagon. At the very least, I'm hoping that Nioh can serve as their "action-rpg" outlet, so that Ninja Gaiden can ideally avoid veering too far in that direction.
Funny enough, the BASARA series actually did do things along the lines of what you suggested. Especially starting with the 4th game, enemy formations were a thing, where at different points, you would get units that would band together and act as one. This varied from simple javelin users moving in tandem, to Archers and Handcannon users that would get on each others' shoulders in pyramid formation to lob volleys at your character all at once, to ninja groups who would act together to cast jutsu and even bombers who would band together and form a giant human wheel that would lay bombs all over the stage area.
It was a pretty nifty idea in practice, and one of the things I would love to see them elaborate on in a future game. But then again, that was all Capcom, there, and Koei/Omega Force definitely does things their own way.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I just got around to actually watching this (and another one of his videos on the possibility of DMC5) and man after watching those, right now I feel like I'm the embodiment of hope or something.
This dude is sooooo damn pessimistic. I mean, come on. Does he even enjoy playing these games anymore. Out of the smaller titles that he talked about I've only played Onechan and sure that game has obvious flaws but despite all that, Onechan is still a pretty damn fun game. You can't just focus on negatives so much. If you are not having fun playing these games then why even bother using them as a form of entertainment?
Same goes for future titles like Nier and Nioh.
Nier Automata looks goddamn amazing. Everything about this game's combat is just heartwarming to see as an action fan. And the guy actually acknowledges this yet he is so concerned about the fact that Taro and SE are trying to ensure fans of the first game that it'll still be a RPG game with RPG elements. The game has looked amazing in each and every showing can't you just be hyped about that? And what if this game has RPG elements and it is a true ARPG? Many Nier fans agree that outside of combat, the first game was an exceptional title in almost every other regard. So what's so bad about marrying an amazing combat to a game like that? It's especially head scratching when you see his DMC5 video where he is basically saying that combat is amazing but you need to have other contents surrounding it be just as good as the combat (aka original Nier + Automata's performance, visuals and gameplay) and now he is afraid that Nier Automata might actually be like that? I mean.... what?
And he's reasoning behind his dampened hyped for Nioh isn't much better either. I mean I get it, yeah. They removed some of the interesting stuff going from Alpha to Beta and the low stance took the biggest hit. Yet, we are talking about TN here. The guys who actually listened to feedback after releasing Alpha. So, yeah they made a few bad changes here and there (alongside tons of good things that they changed and added to Beta by the way) but they've said and they've actually shown that they will listen and they will change and add stuff if fans want them to. So, instead of writing it off like that, just let's wait and see how the final game will turn out and how much they keep on listening to feedback after the release. Worst case scenario is that we get an experience similar to Beta when it comes to combat quality and Nioh's Beta was still one of the best and freshest combats that we've seen in an action game in a long time.
And don't let me even get started on his DMC5 video...
Chaos2Frozen
Member
^i probably should mention that in the recent videos, Ki pulse dodging in back on Low stance. In fact it's on both high and Low stance.
Son Of Sparda
Member
See? This is one of the best examples of devs actually listening to fan feedback. Thanks for clarifying that Chaos. I'm on media blackout since I'm already sold on Nioh, but knowing that Ki pulse dodging is back makes me all the more excited for this game.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
No problem. Full disclaimer- it wasn't officially mentioned, I Guess not sexy enough as a headline, but it was noted in several following footage since the demo that the dodge pulse is back on Low and High.
Also I have a feeling I know what your other complaints about the Beta changes might be, so I can say that they have changed back range controls to its original TPS arrangements. It was mentioned in one of their live streams when talking about Beta feedback... First on the list in fact.
He is saying that combat is going to get marginalized for the other RPG stuff.
And to be honest Nier Automata isn't going to push the boundaries of action gaming but it might be an important title for RPGs in general especially the ones with real time combat. That's basically where he is coming from... that he sees Nier Automata as just another game with the PG standard combat attached to it (ie. timed doges, light/heavy attacks).
Nier looks good though but as a hybrid NG + Souls game which is perfectly fine. At the very least Nier might push combat in that sub genre of Souls games (ie. action RPGs with stamina bar).
This is probably the future of "action" games, marrying with RPGs to provide the content outside of the combat. I wouldn't be shocked to see more RPG stuff in DMC. More stat customization, equipment, side missions, item hunting. None of these would be bad because DMC already has most of this and stuff like Darksiders 2 has already done this. Just as long as long as there's no randomization of anything (so more similar to a Souls games where it's very controlled randomness but even less random than that) and the combat is the front and center focus.
Oh man if they put in depth RPG mechanics in a DMC game... my theory craft level would go through the roof. One of my other favorite games is Path of Exile and I just spend hours theory crafting in that game so you guys know I love this stuff if it's done well. It will never happen of course but even some level of min/max in a DMC game would get me going.
And to be honest Nier Automata isn't going to push the boundaries of action gaming but it might be an important title for RPGs in general especially the ones with real time combat. That's basically where he is coming from... that he sees Nier Automata as just another game with the PG standard combat attached to it (ie. timed doges, light/heavy attacks).
Nier looks good though but as a hybrid NG + Souls game which is perfectly fine. At the very least Nier might push combat in that sub genre of Souls games (ie. action RPGs with stamina bar).
This is probably the future of "action" games, marrying with RPGs to provide the content outside of the combat. I wouldn't be shocked to see more RPG stuff in DMC. More stat customization, equipment, side missions, item hunting. None of these would be bad because DMC already has most of this and stuff like Darksiders 2 has already done this. Just as long as long as there's no randomization of anything (so more similar to a Souls games where it's very controlled randomness but even less random than that) and the combat is the front and center focus.
Oh man if they put in depth RPG mechanics in a DMC game... my theory craft level would go through the roof. One of my other favorite games is Path of Exile and I just spend hours theory crafting in that game so you guys know I love this stuff if it's done well. It will never happen of course but even some level of min/max in a DMC game would get me going.