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[MostlyPeaceful]

Just watched the video.

Suspicions confirmed - This thing is a joke for $700.

I remember some of you in these threads a few days back saying this thing was “outperforming the PS5 by 180%” and it was “doubling the framerate of PS5 fidelity mode”

I pushed back on those claims and got a whole bunch of “LOL” reactions.

And yet here we are.

Disappointing, too. Before this thing was revealed I was legitimately hoping it would compare favorably well to a 4070 and perhaps might even be able to pull off a path-tracing mode in CP2077 with reasonable concessions...

…and instead we’re looking at Ratchet and Clank with toned down settings from PS5’s Fidelity mode lmao

I haven’t read through this thread yet, but to those of you who have been fighting tooth and nail to defend this thing for the last week

 

[Shane89]

Er, no.

$699 PS5PRO => 860p + PSSR = 1440p 60FPS
$1800 4090 => Native 4K + DLAA = 4k 70FPS
$1800 4090 => 1440p+ DLSS + Path Tracing = 4k 100FPS.

Errr, yes.

67FPS in quality mode (with path tracing, 50FPS). try harder

https://tpucdn.com/review/alan-wake-2-performance-benchmark/images/dlss-rt-3840.png

 

[Zathalus]

Errr, yes.

67FPS in quality mode. try harder

https://tpucdn.com/review/alan-wake-2-performance-benchmark/images/dlss-rt-3840.png

That’s the ray tracing benchmark, not the non ray tracing benchmark nor the path tracing one. My PT result is including frame generation which I forgot to do for the non ray tracing results, so those will be over 100FPS as well.

But even if I don’t include frame generation, your first post was still widely incorrect.

 

[ByWatterson]

They call The Last of Us, "T-Loo."

Invalidates literally anything they say.

These guys are now Cinema Sins levels of smug bullshit. Leech off the work of others to point out nearly nothing.

 

[demigod]

Errr, yes.

67FPS in quality mode (with path tracing, 50FPS). try harder

https://tpucdn.com/review/alan-wake-2-performance-benchmark/images/dlss-rt-3840.png

I see he adjusted his price lower and not adding in the whole computer, what a clown. Probably related to Colt.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Absolutely right. The guys who make up DF can have their own opinions and that is fine, but theirs are really no more valid opinions than yours or mine. If we are talking about analyzing tech, yeah, but recommendations are subjective. This was made quite obvious by Oliver who had a completely different take than Alex on whether to buy PS5 Pro or not and talking about what is best for the living room experience. That take is being lost here though as everyone focuses on Alex for some reason.

Olivers point was so well thought out and delivered extremely well.

i am still a console gamer. Primarily pc but i still love my consoles and have many dotted around the house. Olivers point of if you want the highest quality console experience you need to look at ps5 pro and for me its just you have to make the decision of if it worth it vs the current ps5. Money is not the issue for me just the cost to have an equivelant pro is 830 pounds so I'm passing for now and don't think the upgrade warrants that cost.

 

[Zathalus]

I see he adjusted his price lower and not adding in the whole computer, what a clown. Probably related to Colt.

I adjusted the price lower because you can pick up a 4090 for $1800. I also didn’t include the entire PC because the original post didn’t include an original PC.

Continue to be the raging fanboy you are and stick to reaction spamming.

 

[farmerboy]

A little surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that the same guys who think a sharper shadow in the distance justifies their new gpu can't see the obvious improvements the ps5pro brings.

I feel like the ps5pro is being judged on a whole different level of criteria.

 

[SweetTooth]

A little surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that the same guys who think a sharper shadow in the distance justifies their new gpu can't see the obvious improvements the ps5pro brings.

I feel like the ps5pro is being judged on a whole different level of criteria.

DF would have been singing a completely different tune if it was a Series PRO!

 

[Zathalus]

A little surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that the same guys who think a sharper shadow in the distance justifies their new gpu can't see the obvious improvements the ps5pro brings.

I feel like the ps5pro is being judged on a whole different level of criteria.

Did you watch the same video as the rest of us? They clearly go over all the advantages of the new PSSR and the enhancements it brings.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Olivers point was so well thought out and delivered extremely well.

i am still a console gamer. Primarily pc but i still love my consoles and have many dotted around the house. Olivers point of if you want the highest quality console experience you need to look at ps5 pro and for me its just you have to make the decision of if it worth it vs the current ps5. Money is not the issue for me just the cost to have an equivelant pro is 830 pounds so I'm passing for now and don't think the upgrade warrants that cost.

I think the main market is upgraders and personal circumstances may vary, but we are talking about more or less £400-450 maybe less depending on your trade-in deal. With PS5 having increased in cost there are some upsides.

We will see more details as we get closer to launch and devs actually put some effort into it. This is their second generation Pro refresh, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt they have learned how to improve / ease adoption by devs.
Sony has always been quite conservative in their advice / benchmarking for devs, I see no reason to believe Cerny when he says he did not expect devs to adopt RT nearly as much as they did with the base PS5 and especially early in its lifecycle, so we may see some people pulling rabbits out of the hat/beat the 45% summary figure they gave.

It will require dev work as there is limit in the Pro consoles they design in terms of extra power just to allow devs to brute-force things through, but 2-3x (with peaks of 4x) faster RT processing with possibly less shader and CPU overhead compared to PS5, an extra 1.x GB of RAM available for games, VRR window apparently lowered to 40 Hz, hopefully wider adoption of LFC (more and more people with 120 Hz TVs), PSSR up-sampling and frame generation, and other nips and tucks all over the SoC (they said they increased bandwidth by 28% but also that they made lots of other tweaks that should drive the effective improvements above that… the leaks about many of the GPU caches doubling fits that description, but there is likely more). While I would have preferred sailing towards PS6 with even more R&D budget, I think PS5 Pro as announced will likely offer positive surprises when it is all said and done.

After how well PS5 more than kept up with the nominally MUCH faster and supposedly Easier to max out XSX thanks to no clock speed variability and straightforward wide design (and all the other HW choices this same HW design team made with PS4, PS Vita, and PS4 Pro), I think they earned more than their fair share of benefit of the doubt / trust.

I get the sticker shock, bills all around us have been rising (Admiral car insurance I am looking at you ), but more than outrageous price it kind of highlights how constrained $399 was for consoles. It also highlights the point we discussed here many times and why I was opposed to a Pro console: rate of HW improvements is slowing down more and more and it costs more and more to achieve each meaningful jump, the answer is not to release HW more often but the opposite (else things such as machine costs and/or size need to give).

As much derided, the Kutaragi approach to system design places a much stronger emphasis on devs going through the pains of learning exotic architectures and maximising their potential, but that is a Way to ensure you increase peak performance faster than the current rate of change (which focuses on DevEx out of need).

 

[TGO]

Alex's laugh is insanely obnoxious and annoying.

It's a nervous laugh, don't worry about it.
In fact everytime he does it just...

 

[MostlyPeaceful]

PS5 DE at $399 in 2020 was a better and more capable system (relative to top end PCs at the time) than the PS5 Pro is in 2024 - this cannot be argued.

PS5 offered raster performance of a 2070S/2080….in November 2020….for $399.

PS5 Digital Edition is objectively the best price/performance console in the last 2 generations. PS4 and PS4 Pro were decent for their time as well.

We were spoiled for years by these consoles and what they can do for their remarkably reasonable price tags.

Sony is clearly done with all that now. They want their money and they want to recoup the budgets on these woke trash games they’re making this generation. It’s a different world and a different Sony from what we’ve been used to since the great 2009 turnaround.

 

[Anchovie123]

PSSR looks promising, only slightly worse then DLSS, better then FSR. DD2 looks extremely promising, 60fps and massively improved IQ.

This presentation and the clips could be 1-2 months old and on top of that theres still 2 months to release. Plenty of times to improve things further.

 

[demigod]

I adjusted the price lower because you can pick up a 4090 for $1800. I also didn’t include the entire PC because the original post didn’t include an original PC.

Continue to be the raging fanboy you are and stick to reaction spamming.

And the original post didn't include the results you wanted so you changed it and not the price of a PC.

Continue to be the raging fanboy that you are and being disingenuous.

 

[akira__]

Finished watching it now, and so far from what has been shown it seems to do what I expected. I hope we soon get more on what the Pro Boost modes can do to PS4 and unpatched PS5 games.
DF's not nearly as negative as their first impressions, for sure. Alex toned down on the "pissr joke", maybe they got feedback, or the results made him take it more seriously.

Ah their famous first impression a year before it was announced. /s

 

[Zathalus]

And the original post didn't include the results you wanted so you changed it and not the price of a PC.

Continue to be the raging fanboy that you are and being disingenuous.

The original post was blatantly wrong in the performance numbers it was stating so I simply corrected that. Obviously a 4090 can't run games by itself and requires PC components but neither can a PS5 Pro run games without a TV/monitor. I didn't include either because the assumption is fucking obvious.

Lets be honest, if I hadn't correct the performance numbers you wouldn't have given a shit.

 

[demigod]

The original post was blatantly wrong in the performance numbers it was stating so I simply corrected that. Obviously a 4090 can't run games by itself and requires PC components but neither can a PS5 Pro run games without a TV/monitor. I didn't include either because the assumption is fucking obvious.

Lets be honest, if I hadn't correct the performance numbers you wouldn't have given a shit.

And the price was wrong too but you felt the need to not adjust it correctly, it certainly tells what you were trying to do. Keep digging.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think the main market is upgraders and personal circumstances may vary, but we are talking about more or less £400-450 maybe less depending on your trade-in deal. With PS5 having increased in cost there are some upsides.

We will see more details as we get closer to launch and devs actually put some effort into it. This is their second generation Pro refresh, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt they have learned how to improve / ease adoption by devs.
Sony has always been quite conservative in their advice / benchmarking for devs, I see no reason to believe Cerny when he says he did not expect devs to adopt RT nearly as much as they did with the base PS5 and especially early in its lifecycle, so we may see some people pulling rabbits out of the hat/beat the 45% summary figure they gave.

It will require dev work as there is limit in the Pro consoles they design in terms of extra power just to allow devs to brute-force things through, but 2-3x (with peaks of 4x) faster RT processing with possibly less shader and CPU overhead compared to PS5, an extra 1.x GB of RAM available for games, VRR window apparently lowered to 40 Hz, hopefully wider adoption of LFC (more and more people with 120 Hz TVs), PSSR up-sampling and frame generation, and other nips and tucks all over the SoC (they said they increased bandwidth by 28% but also that they made lots of other tweaks that should drive the effective improvements above that… the leaks about many of the GPU caches doubling fits that description, but there is likely more). While I would have preferred sailing towards PS6 with even more R&D budget, I think PS5 Pro as announced will likely offer positive surprises when it is all said and done.

After how well PS5 more than kept up with the nominally MUCH faster and supposedly Easier to max out XSX thanks to no clock speed variability and straightforward wide design (and all the other HW choices this same HW design team made with PS4, PS Vita, and PS4 Pro), I think they earned more than their fair share of benefit of the doubt / trust.

I get the sticker shock, bills all around us have been rising (Admiral car insurance I am looking at you ), but more than outrageous price it kind of highlights how constrained $399 was for consoles. It also highlights the point we discussed here many times and why I was opposed to a Pro console: rate of HW improvements is slowing down more and more and it costs more and more to achieve each meaningful jump, the answer is not to release HW more often but the opposite (else things such as machine costs and/or size need to give).

As much derided, the Kutaragi approach to system design places a much stronger emphasis on devs going through the pains of learning exotic architectures and maximising their potential, but that is a Way to ensure you increase peak performance faster than the current rate of change (which focuses on DevEx out of need).

I think the DF video was actually really promising. If Sony have a knockout show next week for the 30th anniversary! (please bloodborne) I think it will start tempting a lot more of those on the fence. I think i'll hold out until theres an awesome limited edition version, which hopefully includes the drive and stand. I have a lot of physical games from Sony and as it is a console I only really play exclusives on, im not jumping from game to game.

I think PSSR has had a great first showing and now we need to see how the devs will actually support this box. I expect sonys studios will kill it. So I am basically in two spots now. Get a standard pro with disk drive and stand for around 650 on sale, or get a limited edition one with the drive for £799 - £829. £849 with the game, maybe lol

 

[Zathalus]

And the price was wrong too but you felt the need to not adjust it correctly, it certainly tells what you were trying to do. Keep digging.

Because the price was wrong, was it not? If the post had said 4090 PC $4000 I would have corrected that to $2700. But it was very specific in what it was comparing.

Do you think anyone reading this forum is not aware you need a PC to go with your GPU?

 

[Orbital2060]

Reminds of going from the Xbox One to One X, while on a 1080p panel. The suoersampling made the image quality a little bit better on 1080p tv but to really enjoy the difference in hardware you needed a 4K panel.

Sounds like the same here: if you got an OLED and the money to burn it might be worth it. If you game on a 1080p its not worth it, depending on difference in IQ.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

You mean you can't spot the hair flicker from the pc version? I can't spot it on my phone either, but it is pretty obvious on my 77 in 4k TV.

Ahh ok I didn't catch that it's the front of his hair and it's smoother on the pro.

 

[Dunker99]

Even the IGN DF fanboy's are struggling to demonstrate the £700 advantage. I never look or agree with comparing a console to the PC , but just comparing a PS5 to a PS5 Pro one isn't seeing £700 quids worth of difference, but it's early days and the showing by SONY was utterly piss poor.

You got the PS5 for free?! Can you send me a link?

 

[SweetTooth]

I think the main market is upgraders and personal circumstances may vary, but we are talking about more or less £400-450 maybe less depending on your trade-in deal. With PS5 having increased in cost there are some upsides.

We will see more details as we get closer to launch and devs actually put some effort into it. This is their second generation Pro refresh, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt they have learned how to improve / ease adoption by devs.
Sony has always been quite conservative in their advice / benchmarking for devs, I see no reason to believe Cerny when he says he did not expect devs to adopt RT nearly as much as they did with the base PS5 and especially early in its lifecycle, so we may see some people pulling rabbits out of the hat/beat the 45% summary figure they gave.

It will require dev work as there is limit in the Pro consoles they design in terms of extra power just to allow devs to brute-force things through, but 2-3x (with peaks of 4x) faster RT processing with possibly less shader and CPU overhead compared to PS5, an extra 1.x GB of RAM available for games, VRR window apparently lowered to 40 Hz, hopefully wider adoption of LFC (more and more people with 120 Hz TVs), PSSR up-sampling and frame generation, and other nips and tucks all over the SoC (they said they increased bandwidth by 28% but also that they made lots of other tweaks that should drive the effective improvements above that… the leaks about many of the GPU caches doubling fits that description, but there is likely more). While I would have preferred sailing towards PS6 with even more R&D budget, I think PS5 Pro as announced will likely offer positive surprises when it is all said and done.

After how well PS5 more than kept up with the nominally MUCH faster and supposedly Easier to max out XSX thanks to no clock speed variability and straightforward wide design (and all the other HW choices this same HW design team made with PS4, PS Vita, and PS4 Pro), I think they earned more than their fair share of benefit of the doubt / trust.

I get the sticker shock, bills all around us have been rising (Admiral car insurance I am looking at you ), but more than outrageous price it kind of highlights how constrained $399 was for consoles. It also highlights the point we discussed here many times and why I was opposed to a Pro console: rate of HW improvements is slowing down more and more and it costs more and more to achieve each meaningful jump, the answer is not to release HW more often but the opposite (else things such as machine costs and/or size need to give).

As much derided, the Kutaragi approach to system design places a much stronger emphasis on devs going through the pains of learning exotic architectures and maximising their potential, but that is a Way to ensure you increase peak performance faster than the current rate of change (which focuses on DevEx out of need).

Finally, a really balanced and thoughtful post in a sea of agenda-driven reactionary posts.

Thank you

 

[Team Andromeda]

You got the PS5 for free?! Can you send me a link?

No, I got mine at launch , like I did for the PS 4 and Xbox One , but unlike those consoles Pro models, I don't see value in buying the PS 5 Pro

That's the issue I have and at £700 with no disc drive, SONY are having a laugh ....

 

[Dunker99]

No, I got mine at launch , like I did for the PS 4 and Xbox One , but unlike those consoles Pro models, I don't see value in buying the PS 5 Pro

That's the issue I have and at £700 with no disc drive, SONY are having a laugh ....

So the difference in cost is around £250-£350? So why are you saying the Pro needs to show £700 worth of difference? It doesn’t make sense.

 

[Mr Moose]

They call The Last of Us, "T-Loo."

Invalidates literally anything they say.

These guys are now Cinema Sins levels of smug bullshit. Leech off the work of others to point out nearly nothing.

Yeah, who would call it that?

 

[Team Andromeda]

So the difference in cost is around £250-£350? So why are you saying the Pro needs to show £700 worth of difference? It doesn’t make sense.

The price of the Pro is £700 that's what one is asked to pay and for slightly shaper graphics ?

When it came to the PS 4 Pro and Xbox One X the difference was clear and was good value at £450 that's the difference 'for me '

 

[PaintTinJr]

Nothing has been hand waved away by DF. The video is extremely positive towards PSSR.

Under what circumstances would Nvidia allow them to acknowledge that PSSR is superior in your opinion? to actually have DF be properly positive about PSSR rather than relatively positive?

Obviously they aren't technically qualified anyway to be authoritative - even with help from more technical friends at beyond3d - to make that assessment, but they are never going to opine that PSSR is better than DLSS ... even though it already is,.

 

[Zathalus]

Under what circumstances would Nvidia allow them to acknowledge that PSSR is superior in your opinion? to actually have DF be properly positive about PSSR rather than relatively positive?

Obviously they aren't technically qualified anyway to be authoritative - even with help from more technical friends at beyond3d - to make that assessment, but they are never going to opine that PSSR is better than DLSS ... even though it already is,.

NVIDIA allow them? Come on we all have eyes, you can clearly see the ghosting and shimmering issues they pointed out.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Because telling someone they are gonna have to spend 1500$+ to simply get 30+ more frames or a slightly higher native resolution of the exact same game doesent sound as appealing...I remember the golden days of pc gaming when pc games were literally vastly superior games then console it was like ps3 to ps5 now its spending thousands to get something the average joe wouldn't even notice

Cyberpunk, Witcher 3, Alan Wake 2, Black Myth, Star Wars Outlaws and many other upcoming games are all vastly superior on PC. Indiana Jones and Avowed are both confirmed for Raytraced Lighting. Is the PS5 Pro even going to get the older Raytraced Lighting in Cyberpunk that it had when it first released before Nvidia made it even better?

 

[Snake29]

The fact that PSSR is already close to DLSS in it's current state is pretty impressive. On the other hand, Sony has a lot of experience with upscaling hardware and tech on othe products and they have Sony AI inhouse who also co-developing solutions with PlayStation.

Then they also have: https://sonyinteractive.com/en/news...ializing-in-deep-learning-for-video-delivery/

They might not be part of this and more for their cloud streaming and remote play solutions. It's why the PS5 is the only console that can stream current gen games from the cloud at 4K/60+HDR.

 

[Dorfdad]

Just watched the video.

Suspicions confirmed - This thing is a joke for $700.

I remember some of you in these threads a few days back saying this thing was “outperforming the PS5 by 180%” and it was “doubling the framerate of PS5 fidelity mode”

I pushed back on those claims and got a whole bunch of “LOL” reactions.

And yet here we are.

Disappointing, too. Before this thing was revealed I was legitimately hoping it would compare favorably well to a 4070 and perhaps might even be able to pull off a path-tracing mode in CP2077 with reasonable concessions...

…and instead we’re looking at Ratchet and Clank with toned down settings from PS5’s Fidelity mode lmao

I haven’t read through this thread yet, but to those of you who have been fighting tooth and nail to defend this thing for the last week

Than don’t buy it! Why do you feel the need to tell everyone they a joke for liking something. The systems not even released, and I’m taking Marks word over anyone worse because history has taught me that when the ps5 and series X released that everyone said Xbox series x was the vastly superior system with 10-20% performance advantage over PS5 yet 90% of the games are better on PS5 with its inferior design.

I get where PC players see an injustice with price for online, game costs, etc but let’s be fair

PS5 costs 450-500 right now. So for ~200.00 more your getting a 2tb SSD (they go for about $120+ on sale) and all the other benefits the console brings! Like ps4 Boost, PSSR and for those of us with OLED tv’s we game on a his thing looks beautiful!

 

[Dunker99]

The price of the Pro is £700 that's what one is asked to pay and for slightly shaper graphics ?

When it came to the PS 4 Pro and Xbox One X the difference was clear and was good value at £450 that's the difference 'for me '

You said “Even the IGN DF fanboy's are struggling to demonstrate the £700 advantage” and “one isn't seeing £700 quids worth of difference”. Which is disingenuous. Because the consoles are not £700 difference in cost.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Cyberpunk, Alan Wake 2, Black Myth, Star Wars Outlaws and many other upcoming games are all vastly superior on PC. Indiana Jones and Avowed are both confirmed for Raytraced Lighting. Is the PS5 Pro even going to get older Raytraced Lighting in Cyberpunk that it had before Nvidia made it even better?

I feel like this is what needs answering the most. Is this console a PS5 running at higher res and framerate thanks to PSSR or are they going to use the extra ML silicon to push some PC type effects and what does that entail. Are we back at 30FPS in that situation?

If so DF are right, if you are after a decent console experience at 700 pounds in your front room the Pro is a no brainer. If you are after a 60fps experience and that is your most important guarantee with decent effects, you need to look at PC.

Out of interest, how would the below PC compare to a PS5 pro I wonder?

https://www.very.co.uk/pcspecialist-fusion-250-gaming-desktop-24-inch-fhdnbspmonitor-keyboard-amp-mouse-bundle-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-amd-ryzen-5-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd/1601002201.prd

 

[PaintTinJr]

NVIDIA allow them? Come on we all have eyes, you can clearly see the ghosting and shimmering issues they pointed out.

What circumstances? because we all know it is a rhetorical question with a 'none' answer.

We've all been down this rabbit hole before with Wichard, happy to ignore problems in one while amping up concern for artefacts at x500 on another, despite having zero background in signal processing, computer graphics programming, statistics or designing ML AI neural network solutions.

They don't even have the class to say they don't know if PSSR is better than DLSS from working with inadequate knowledge and inadequate source material, and quickly get to let people know DLSS (in their non-technical opinion) is still the best.

How is this not a foregone conclusion?

 

[Traxtech]

I assume the power supply has been buffed on the Pro then? Would also factor into the cost amount I guess.

The question is, how does power delivery work when the whole ps5 thing was that it shared power between CPU/GPU depended on the load? Is it power limited? Looking forward to having these things answered.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Reminds of going from the Xbox One to One X, while on a 1080p panel. The suoersampling made the image quality a little bit better on 1080p tv but to really enjoy the difference in hardware you needed a 4K panel.
Sounds like the same here: if you got an OLED and the money to burn it might be worth it. If you game on a 1080p its not worth it, depending on difference in IQ.

Let's be honest:

If you still game on a 1080p tv with your PS5, getting a 4K tv should be a priority over a PS5 Pro. A 120hz OLED preferrably.

 

[Vick]

Than don’t buy it! Why do you feel the need to tell everyone they a joke for liking something.

Don't waste a single second of your time on that person.
If you really need more insight, check his post history from the Pro reveal day.

 

[Dorfdad]

I feel like this is what needs answering the most. Is this console a PS5 running at higher res and framerate thanks to PSSR or are they going to use the extra ML silicon to push some PC type effects and what does that entail. Are we back at 30FPS in that situation?

If so DF are right, if you are after a decent console experience at 700 pounds in your front room the Pro is a no brainer. If you are after a 60fps experience and that is your most important guarantee with decent effects, you need to look at PC.

Out of interest, how would the below PC compare to a PS5 pro I wonder?

https://www.very.co.uk/pcspecialist-fusion-250-gaming-desktop-24-inch-fhdnbspmonitor-keyboard-amp-mouse-bundle-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-amd-ryzen-5-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd/1601002201.prd

According to Mark that is up to the developers. This isn’t a catch all fix, as they can use the extra GPU power and memory as they see fit. however we can be sure that all games marked with ps5 pro support will run 4k/60 since that was required for certification I believe.

 

[Zathalus]

What circumstances? because we all know it is a rhetorical question with a 'none' answer.

We've all been down this rabbit hole before with Wichard, happy to ignore problems in one while amping up concern for artefacts at x500 on another, despite having zero background in signal processing, computer graphics programming, statistics or designing ML AI neural network solutions.

They don't even have the class to say they don't know if PSSR is better than DLSS from working with inadequate knowledge and inadequate source material, and quickly get to let people know DLSS (in their non-technical opinion) is still the best.

How is this not a foregone conclusion?

Because you can see the results upscaling yourself? This isn't rocket science. On TLOU you can clearly see that grass is having problems with ghosting, and in Ratchet and Clank you can also see that some tree/bush objects have issue with shimmering and stability. In those specific criteria, PSSR can still improve.

Obviously PSSR will improve, just like DLSS and XeSS did over the past few years. That is not quite as good as the latest version of DLSS isn't indicative of the technology being bad, it demonstrates how good it is on the first release. Its appears to be better then any DLSS version prior to 3.0 and to my eye it appears to be better then XeSS 1.3 as well.

 

[Mr Moose]

I feel like this is what needs answering the most. Is this console a PS5 running at higher res and framerate thanks to PSSR or are they going to use the extra ML silicon to push some PC type effects and what does that entail. Are we back at 30FPS in that situation?

If so DF are right, if you are after a decent console experience at 700 pounds in your front room the Pro is a no brainer. If you are after a 60fps experience and that is your most important guarantee with decent effects, you need to look at PC.

Out of interest, how would the below PC compare to a PS5 pro I wonder?

https://www.very.co.uk/pcspecialist-fusion-250-gaming-desktop-24-inch-fhdnbspmonitor-keyboard-amp-mouse-bundle-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-amd-ryzen-5-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd/1601002201.prd

8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4060 Ti

Spoiler

CPU is similar to a 3600, from what I can see.

Spoiler

 

[farmerboy]

Did you watch the same video as the rest of us? They clearly go over all the advantages of the new PSSR and the enhancements it brings.

Not talking just about DF but the wider community here on GAF.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Because you can see the results upscaling yourself? This isn't rocket science. On TLOU you can clearly see that grass is having problems with ghosting, and in Ratchet and Clank you can also see that some tree/bush objects have issue with shimmering and stability. In those specific criteria, PSSR can still improve.

Obviously PSSR will improve, just like DLSS and XeSS did over the past few years. That is not quite as good as the latest version of DLSS isn't indicative of the technology being bad, it demonstrates how good it is on the first release. Its appears to be better then any DLSS version prior to 3.0 and to my eye it appears to be better then XeSS 1.3 as well.

Ghosting?

At normal 60fps playback speed in the ProRes file?

Really? because I don't remember anyone here on Gaf mention any image ghosting immediately after they watched the cerny presentation. I certainly saw zero myself, and in successive frames blending frames can be mistaken by non-technical 'analysis folk' as ghosting.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

PSSR looks promising, only slightly worse then DLSS, better then FSR. DD2 looks extremely promising, 60fps and massively improved IQ.

This presentation and the clips could be 1-2 months old and on top of that theres still 2 months to release. Plenty of times to improve things further.

I completely agree, Sony have clearly put a lot of work into the solution. It can't be overstated enough how impressive PSSR is as a first gen implementation.

 

[Radical_3d]

however we can be sure that all games marked with ps5 pro support will run 4k/60 since that was required for certification I believe.

 

[Zathalus]

Ghosting?

At normal 60fps playback speed in the ProRes file?

Really? because I don't remember anyone here on Gaf mention any image ghosting immediately after they watched the cerny presentation. I certainly saw zero myself, and in successive frames blending frames can be mistaken by non-technical 'analysis folk' as ghosting.

If you actually watch the DF video you can quite clearly see some ghosting in the grass that is not visible at all in the rest of the image.

 

[farmerboy]

I think PSSR has had a great first showing and now we need to see how the devs will actually support this box. I expect sonys studios will kill it.

Exactly. When we see the next wave of ps5 exclusives on the Pro I have a feeling we'll be happy.

Everything is cross gen and most of the true exclusives were early gen.

Need to see something from ND.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Spoiler

CPU is similar to a 3600, from what I can see.

Spoiler

So looking at it, the 4060 Ti with DLSS quality at 1440p Is a great card. Im quite surprised.

 

[Taycan77]

Seems so silly to over analyse limited video content when the machine is 2 months away. And we haven’t even seen any games demoed officially (outside of the CNET) fluff piece.

This gen we’ve seen so many armchair experts saying this or that is not possible on console (based on initial release). Only to see performance, frame rates, even image quality, transformed in subsequent patches.

I thought Oliver’s comments were very well thought out. Rich gave his usual overview and blind belief Nvidia can never be matched. While Alex, nervous laughter and all, was trying to underplay how close PSSR is to DLSS at this early stage.

None of us have seen what PS5 Pro is capable of yet.