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Diablo III: Reaper of Souls |OT| Once again! The Sound of HAMMERS is GLORIOUS!
- Thread starter Yoshichan
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Fully agreed. Design-wise, magic find is a very poor stat to include in a game like Diablo where it forces the player into making difficult decisions that have nothing to do with gameplay.
I did find a Nagelring last week and have been using it on my chest runs. After seeing that data, I am thinking of incorporating it into my Rift runs as well if my group is clearing monsters fast enough. Goddamnit.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
So how many of us are in the shard of hate club?
How many of us want to be in the club?
How many of us shun the club?
How many of us want to be in the club?
How many of us shun the club?
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Dreams-Visions
Member
You guys should probably read through that thread before concluding this information is of value to you or forwarding such suggestions any further.
It probably isn't. Read the thread for why.
If you're in close combat all the time its a great piece to have, ups your effective DPS, procs often
Avg dmg on jewelry, particularly rings (avg dmg > cd or ias on rings)
+element dmg (right up there if not more important than cc)
+skill dmg (also right up there with cc)
Single resist for OWE.
I really can't state enough how powerful those +element and +skill rolls are. Did some Ghom tests last night, and with my 650k sheet dps I was doing around 13m actual dps. Compared that with some people who had 1.2m sheet dps who were putting out 11-12m actual dps.
Sheet dps is for e-peen only.
I dunno about that, having a set of MF gear feels very reminiscent of D2 in a great way. Before the crap with MF reduction I had a set of MF gear for myself and my follower putting me at the cap, it was fun to run with that gear.. it was also fun to acquire it.
I think if done correctly they can bring back the "treasure hunter" gear in a new way that doesn't make you feel like you're cheesing it on lower difficulties.
Ooh this is making my starbucks-riddled mind churn some ideas as to how this would be accomplished. What if, like set items, there were "tier" items where stats/affixes are unlocked only by being in a certain tier. i.e. "Death's Guard" belt -- [Tier 3+ : +1000 DEX] [Tier 4+ : Increase Legendary Drop Rate by 50% from Elites in Rifts] etcetc..
Speaking of flawed logic, why do people assume the drop rate for legendary items is higher in rifts? There is absolutely no reason to jump to that conclusion, and all the anecdotal evidence in the world to suggest otherwise.
All that Blizzard has said is they increased the legendary chance by 25% in rifts. No one has ever said the legendary base drop rate is the same in rifts vs outside. It seems plainly obvious the base rate is much higher OUTSIDE of rifts, because it would be fucking RAINING legendary items in the rifts if it was higher. You are killing elite packs at 500% the normal rate in rifts, if the base rate was the same youd be getting a legendary item every 10 minutes.
All that Blizzard has said is they increased the legendary chance by 25% in rifts. No one has ever said the legendary base drop rate is the same in rifts vs outside. It seems plainly obvious the base rate is much higher OUTSIDE of rifts, because it would be fucking RAINING legendary items in the rifts if it was higher. You are killing elite packs at 500% the normal rate in rifts, if the base rate was the same youd be getting a legendary item every 10 minutes.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Magic Find is dumb as is stacking it. But if people are that hard up for legendaries they have the necessary information to inform them that they can forgo all DPS itemization and equip MF items (and as a result kill shit ALOT slower...thus really not finding that much more per hour than now) and tadaa legendaries.
KillerDark
Member
I would love one... would go great with my fulminator haha http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/KillerDark-1570/hero/1730545
Angelus Errare
Banned
Honestly I want a shard mostly to say I have one. I mean I already have 4 Thunderfuries, 2 Fulminators, might as well add a shard to the collection.
Is there any evidence that elites have a higher legendary drop rate versus regular mobs and chests though?
jim2point0
Banned
Caliginous
Neo Member
I don't believe that stacking MF is necessary. It is known that eventually a legendary drop will occur as you spend time playing. I do find it interesting that MF has some small impact and if your gear allows a small bit of MF (especially in multiplayer games) that it is at least interesting to test your results with 50-100 MF (this includes 30% from playing in a 4 player game).
Keep in mind that the post on diablofans applies only to using MF during Rift runs and it does not account for the speed at which you clear a rift. Sacrificing efficiency in clearing a rift to stack MF will almost never be worth it. I would take this info with a grain of salt, but the post has more than enough merit to be worth testing, if you can maintain a time efficient rift run.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
People inevitably get creeped out by the onslaught of his manic enthusiasm, and he get's upset that people start commenting on it so he stops posting. It's just a natural part of the yoshichan blizzard game release cycle.
Can you read for context at all? They said 25% additional, the base rate could be 0.1 in a rift and 1.0 outside of a rift, then after applying 25% additional it would .125 in a rift and 1.0 outside a rift. How is this beyond people's understanding?
It doesn't solve anything because you will still consider items with mediocre/poor primary stats just because they have high MF as a secondary stat.
Vargavinter
Member
How are barbarians doing with the new expansion?
Right, you would end up stacking by any means to reach the MF cap just so you can run Normal since max MF on normal would outweigh regular T1 (sans people who want set items).
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Because that's a ridiculous assumption? It makes absolutely no sense at all to think the base item drop rate in rifts is lower than everywhere else.
jim2point0
Banned
Lol wut? Why would blizzard put in a patch that increases the legendary drop rate in rifts to encourage people to play in rifts if the drop rate in rifts is actually lower than the non-rift drop rate?
I think he's just trolling guys.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
Yeah, your grasping straws here. Way to big of an assumption.
Again, I don't understand how people can possibly believe this is optimal. You guys realize that at a certain point the increases from Paragon Levels trump the gains you can make through items right? Lets say you have a decent item loadout after playing for 2 weeks now. prolly 3-4 set pieces, ring of royal grandeur, soj, thunderfury or another decent weapon. Not that unrealistic for people that have been playing a lot since release. If they play 8 hours, they are getting more improvement to their character through paragon levels than the potential of finding a better version of an existing item, or getting the 1-2 set pieces they are still missing.
HOW DOES IT NOT? Look at the kill speed and amount of drop you get doing rifts. It's absolutely, positively insane compared to normal gameplay. Yet the rate you acquire legendaries is the same if not less. It's definitely less than something like running Manglemaw or chests right? How is this possible? Obviously the only rational conclusion is that the base legendary rate for things like chests, elite packs, rifts, purple monsters, white monsters, item racks, etc are not the same. If you are killing at 300% the rate of normal you should be getting 3005 the rate of legendary drops, but that does not happen in the rift. All evidence points to the base rate in the rift actually being much lower. Obviously, it has to be lower because of the hugely increased kill speed, its just too low, which is why they increased it in the first place. The problem is that even with the buff it's still too low.
Well from what I've learned in this thread we can't do Torment 1 without struggling, but, personally I've been doing Torment 3 (and T4 occasionally but I need a bit more dps before I make the change fully) extremely fast and easy and having a lot of fun with it. If you enjoyed the class before you will probably still like it now once you figure out a build to roll with.
Technosteve
Banned
Time to farm for a MF set.
Vargavinter
Member
Thanks.
I don't think I understand the issue here at all.
If you want an increased opportunity to find legendary items, you need to assume more risk. You've got two options: wear MF gear and play at a lower difficulty, or don't wear MF gear and play at a higher one. Or, if you're crazy, wear MF gear and play at a higher difficulty. If you wear MF gear and play Torment 6, you should get more legendary drops than I do because you're nuts for doing it.
It's that simple. There is no "MF is dumb" or "MF is a stupid stat" argument to be made. It's risk vs reward, not fun vs reward.
If you want an increased opportunity to find legendary items, you need to assume more risk. You've got two options: wear MF gear and play at a lower difficulty, or don't wear MF gear and play at a higher one. Or, if you're crazy, wear MF gear and play at a higher difficulty. If you wear MF gear and play Torment 6, you should get more legendary drops than I do because you're nuts for doing it.
It's that simple. There is no "MF is dumb" or "MF is a stupid stat" argument to be made. It's risk vs reward, not fun vs reward.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Yeah a couple of my buddies are playing barbs and they seem to be doing fine.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
I agree. There really isn't anything to debate.
They suck bad until they get a lot of gear, then they honestly start pulling ahead of everyone else from what I've seen. Theyre capable of doing things that no one else can, its just extremely gear dependent. Its also not clear if some of it is intentional or not.
paragon doesn't give magic find.
shit, just jump into a torment 2 game and have people carry you.
/s
there was a barb with 198k dps in our torment 2 game last night. he couldn't kill shit and just didn't help at all. i asked why he was there and got no answer. it's not fair to the rest of the group.
Here's mine if you are curious. I comfortably farm T3 (current build) and can do T4 without problems, it's just not efficient.
I go two *one-handers* if I farm T2 or T1 and have some other gear that I put on for T4 that has more all-res, vit and regen.
It doesn't look flashy on paper, but the build when passives and damage multipliers are added it's killer.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/RARBUSTO-1251/hero/40910978
Edit: Not sure why my healing is so low on the battle.net page. I basically stack the passive that increases life per fury spent with Health Globe Bonus so I get about 1.4k life per fury spent and spam Battle Rage to heal 30k and one spin of whirlwind heals 14k.
Sanctuary
Member
50 MF (T2 Rift) looks like the minimum breakpoint, and also not entirely too far out of reach. I have a Nagelring in the bank that can be rerolled to equal the DPS of my Puzzle Ring (which I should have used in the first place). All that's left is gemming a helm for MF as long as it doesn't really negatively impact your survivability or clearing speed (noticeably).
Currently, T1 is not even remotely a challenge, and really feels about like what Expert did while leveling up. If not even almost Normal. T2 is also extremely easy solo, yet for some reason becomes very ridiculous when grouped up (might just be gear disparity between random people, not sure). I could do T3 right now, but I just don't really find it worthwhile. Although by that chart, T3 seems like it's going to be the sweet spot after a while, for a long while.
Eh, nevermind. Finished the rest of the thread. The original post and graph is completely wrong...
But legs dropping as candy is fun, no matter what kind of gear you're wearing.
I remember the old DS2 days, when you would get set/leg items every couple of minutes if you had godlike MF gear. Never made me want to stop playing.Playing on a higher torment level is effectively equipping mf gear. The difference is largely superficial. I find the existence of the stat and the need to make that choice a bit frustrating as well, but the choice is in the game even without the stat- just framed differently.
Manglemaw and chest runs aren't normal gameplay- they're repeatedly triggering potential leg sources in quick succession on the highest difficulty of the game- a difficulty few, if any, are farming right now in rifts. They aren't comparable and it's pretty clear Blizz doesn't intend for things like the mm and core runs to be as profitable as they are.
If you were comparing, say, running through the same relative number of elite packs/chests in campaign, rifts, and bounties on the same difficulty, then we'd have a fairly balanced testing field. But it's hard to even do that since rng is rng- I notice substantially more legendaries in rifts than I do bounties, but I have friends who have the exact opposite happen. All we can really go off of- outside obvious anomalies/expoits like the core and mm run- is what Blizz says since all any of us have as personal evidence is just anecdotal talk on how rng has impacted our individual game.
Manglemaw and chest runs aren't normal gameplay- they're repeatedly triggering potential leg sources in quick succession on the highest difficulty of the game- a difficulty few, if any, are farming right now in rifts. They aren't comparable and it's pretty clear Blizz doesn't intend for things like the mm and core runs to be as profitable as they are.
If you were comparing, say, running through the same relative number of elite packs/chests in campaign, rifts, and bounties on the same difficulty, then we'd have a fairly balanced testing field. But it's hard to even do that since rng is rng- I notice substantially more legendaries in rifts than I do bounties, but I have friends who have the exact opposite happen. All we can really go off of- outside obvious anomalies/expoits like the core and mm run- is what Blizz says since all any of us have as personal evidence is just anecdotal talk on how rng has impacted our individual game.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
But legs dropping as candy is fun, no matter what kind of gear you're wearing.
Yeah, I've always considered MF a "fun" stat. Most of my favorite D2 items had MF on them, like Skullder's Ire and of course shako.
You may be projecting a bit there. I'm sure the majority of people who are leg farming are missing those essential build changer items. They don't have their cindercoat, kridershot, etc yet. These are items that make T3 viable for those that are doing ok in T1.
Basically how blizzard deals with warrior type classes in every game lol
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Please stop assuming things. Game is absolutely amazing, I stopped posting in this thread not because of people showing reaction towards my "addiction", but rather the fact that people were throwing shit bombs at me like I was the next Putin. It was unacceptable behavior and I had much more fun talking to people on Mumble/in-game instead. It had NOTHING to do with the "Blizzard game release cycle". So again, please refrain from being silly and respect how things really are/were.
Caliginous
Neo Member
Just DL'ed patch 2.0.4 on the Bnet app. Still can't find any additional notes, other than those class changes.
That waa a weekend community buff iirc.
jim2point0
Banned
Whoa. I know I'm new to the thread because I only recently game back to playing the game, but... really? People were getting upset at you for being enthusiastic about the game? Or what did I miss here....?
fluffydelusions
Member
This is correct.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Old news. GAF hates it when people show excitement over 200%. Anyone who says anything else really doesn't know shit about this situation. I, if anyone, would know the truth here.
MF was fun in D2 because you didn't need good gear, the itemization was completely different than it is in D3. In D3 it was frustrating because it was another stat to add onto the 4 or 5 you already had to get on an item to make it good.
You'd have the 'perfect' item, and then the 'perfect +1' item with MF on it.
The difference in swapping on an ali babas in D2 or something was negligible but in D3 it would cut your damage by like 75% and you'd hate it.
You'd have the 'perfect' item, and then the 'perfect +1' item with MF on it.
The difference in swapping on an ali babas in D2 or something was negligible but in D3 it would cut your damage by like 75% and you'd hate it.
Yea this is very true, especially for the sorcs since really all they needed were the + skill bonuses, they could easily stack MF and be just as effective
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