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Diablo III: Reaper of Souls |OT| Once again! The Sound of HAMMERS is GLORIOUS!

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Nice, I'm jealous of those Reaper's Wraps haha.

The RoV fire runes are not that good so you're not missing much. Stampede is too narrow and Anathema is so small it's very easy for monsters to move out of the AOE. On higher torments I like Flying Strike because it's 7 straight seconds of stunning in a decent AOE, very powerful for a 30s coldown ability.

I tried personal mortar but I hate the derpy aiming on the mortars. I think Seethe is better so you can spam more LFBs, but I've phased Vengeance out from my bar in any case. (Profile link.).

How are you liking Multishot? Does it add much on top of LFB? Does the MS one-shot stuff on T1? I have it on my bar right now for Normal bounties but I haven't tried it in rifts yet.

I really like it. It will 1 shot many things on t1 like fallen, wasps, skeletons, spiders, ect. The downside is that it does use a bit more hatred than dual chaks so I do use more hatred. If I was going to t2 or t3 where it took a bit longer for things to die, I would go back to twin chak. With my current gear, MS crits for 3-5M.
 

Baliis

Member
I know the talk lately in the thread is about how to make that toughness stat work for you. Mixing resists in with raw hp is crucial to having balanced survivability but saying things like "having really high HP is a bad thing" is really going overboard.

If player A has 600k hp and no mitigation but player B has 300k hp and 50% mitigation then guess what.. they can both take the same amount of damage.

Monster hits for 100k - player A dead in 6 hits, player B dead in 6 hits.

Healing such as life on hit is where a lower hp/higher mitigation setup really shines. That 1.5k per hit heal will go a longer way when you are mitigating 50% damage.

However, don't forget about skills that heal % of max life. In that case, the super high hp will be a boon.

It's about balancing around your particular setup, not neglecting one for the other.

% of max life heals the same EHP now matter what set up you have.

If I have 100hp, die in 10 hits, and you have 50hp, die in 10 hits, a 10% heal will give me 10 hp, you 5 hp, we both survive an extra hit.
 

macewank

Member
Zero opportunity cost? I mean, if the socket is there then it could also be 23% Life or 12.5% CDR. It's possible for the latter to be irrelevant in some cases but I don't know as 23% Life falls under that category.

agree. it's not a zero opportunity cost. 23% life is a significant boost.

but I'm all for the guy who chose to throw a 41% MF topaz in the helm having a higher chance for a legendary than the guy who threw the 23% life amethyst in. like i said before, risk/reward
 

traveler

Not Wario
I'm actually wondering how viable it is to stack purely vit and %life for your mitigation as a holy crusader. Assuming you can at least take a few hits- any number of holy damage ticks should provide massive heals with a huge health pool.

The real problem I'm having with toughness is that min maxed gear allocations typically leave little room for it. Yeah, I'm gemming it full on now, but with only 4 primary stats and the desire to pursue main stat, cc, cd, as, element dmg, skill dmg, cd reduction, resource reduction, etc. wherever possible, it's hard to make room for vit, % life, and ar. (And don't even think about trying to fit life regen/life on hit or area damage in) The change to having designated allocation on gear for secondary stats (as opposed to the 6 primaries you could roll before) and expansion of primary stats into even more offensive stats- which, while maybe not that useful for other classes, are certainly good on crusaders, cr in particular- has me leaving ar on maybe 1 or 2 pieces. If my cindercoat needs its bonus fire damage, my andariels needs both that and cc/as, and my boots need spender dmg, where am I supposed to get it?

I'm also wondering if they shouldn't just give secondary stats the boot at this point honestly. Would require an expansion level rework and some special attention paid to monks and witch doctors, but does anyone really like secondary stats? Heck, they've been saying OWE shouldn't feel mandatory for a while now, but that passive seems like it could only ever be must have or worthless. Better to work out dex mitigation issues and dodge while getting rid of it entirely in my opinion.
 

garath

Member
% of max life heals the same EHP now matter what set up you have.

If I have 100hp, die in 10 hits, and you have 50hp, die in 10 hits, a 10% heal will give me 10 hp, you 5 hp, we both survive an extra hit.

True true. But in no case is high hp a detriment.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Shoulders, Belts, Boots (not that you don't need MS) and Pants are good sources from where you can get defensive attributes. You can put Diamond gems on Chests/Pants while also getting like 3 defensive stats on Belts/Shoulders.

Yeah it's hard to balance all the stats for your character... but that's a good thing. This means choices have to be made... do you want more damage or more tankiness. If you could have both extremes then it would be too easy.
 

scy

Member
True true. But in no case is high hp a detriment.

It's a detriment in the sense that the Healing necessary to keep up with the damage you take is astronomical. High HP pool is best suited in cases where you have constant amounts of healing done. Since we don't really have that in Diablo 3, you're best suited having a ton of mitigation so whatever small amount of Healing you have is better.

It's not that high HP is a detriment but that high HP is terribly inefficient for survival. A set of gear slotted with VIT/Life% vs a set with high Armor/All Resist (that is, the same everything else but subbing out the VIT/Life% for similarly rolled Armor/AR) will have the latter set be more effective.

Also, in regards to Armor% vs All Resist, you're better off with All Resist even at 2000+ AR unless you have 10,000+ Armor.
 
I use to think that Crusaders needed to go with Heavenly Strength but now with some lucky leg drops, I won't go back to 2h unless I get the Flail that procs 2 bombardment hits. Even then I'll probably just use it so I can laugh and watch elite packs die even faster. However, the speed alone is enough for me to drop 2h+shield with how fast my party moves.
 

Fularu

Banned
It's really difficult to get armor as a Monk player. I have been sub 10K armor forever but my resistances are now at 2000 with Mantra of Healing. I think I should start swapping my Paragon points here and there.

I wish there was a gem that added a ton of armor to gear. Like I would totally use that for my Monk.
While not optimal, rubies provide up to 280 armor per gem.
 

Moff

Member
any advice for a fire wizard? just found a cindercoat and already had some +fire damage on my reaper's wraps. since I already use conflagrate because of my mirroball I decided to go full fire, but a meteor/scorch orb combo just doesnt seem to reach the power of frost orb
 

Baliis

Member
any advice for a fire wizard? just found a cindercoat and already had some +fire damage on my reaper's wraps. since I already use conflagrate because of my mirroball I decided to go full fire, but a meteor/scorch orb combo just doesnt seem to reach the power of frost orb

Try Wave of Force
 

Wallach

Member
Best hatred spender that doesn't require a bow for DH? I just remembered I have a ridiculous axe with a reduced level requirement.

I'd probably look at some kinda Chakram-primary setup, Razor Disk or Twin Chakrams. Maybe Fan of Knives if you have Sash of Knives but the Hatred cost is butts with Knives Expert.
 

Chanser

Member
any advice for a fire wizard? just found a cindercoat and already had some +fire damage on my reaper's wraps. since I already use conflagrate because of my mirroball I decided to go full fire, but a meteor/scorch orb combo just doesnt seem to reach the power of frost orb

Multishot with arsenal.
 

Shifty76

Member
% of max life heals the same EHP now matter what set up you have.

If I have 100hp, die in 10 hits, and you have 50hp, die in 10 hits, a 10% heal will give me 10 hp, you 5 hp, we both survive an extra hit.

If you have heals that heal a fixed % of your max health pool, sure. If you're a monk and have a shitty heal that heals for a fixed numerical amount every time, then it's going to take twice as long to heal yourself.
 

Insaniac

Member
any advice for a fire wizard? just found a cindercoat and already had some +fire damage on my reaper's wraps. since I already use conflagrate because of my mirroball I decided to go full fire, but a meteor/scorch orb combo just doesnt seem to reach the power of frost orb

wave of force is good, but I really like meteor shower.
 

Baliis

Member
If you have heals that heal a fixed % of your max health pool, sure. If you're a monk and have a shitty heal that heals for a fixed numerical amount every time, then it's going to take twice as long to heal yourself.

Which is why mitigation should be favored over raw hp.
 

Wallach

Member
What mitigates arcane, molten, plague, desecrator and electrical death globes?

Besides armor and resists, you'd want reduced damage from elites to reduce those further. Blackthorne's 4pc would also make you immune to molten, plague and desecrator (though obviously the cost of getting that set bonus is not trivial gear-wise).

Edit - I wonder if -% ranged doesn't also work on all of those.
 

eek5

Member
They need to adjust dex to affect resistances even if it's at a way lower rate than the way int/str does after you pass the dodge cap or change dodge so that you can "partially" dodge attacks (aka give some form of damage mitigation). Right now you get to 30% dodge chance and your'e boned after that. Doesn't make sense especially since they nerfed STI a while back.
 

Wallach

Member
They need to adjust dex to affect resistances even if it's at a way lower rate than the way int/str does after you pass the dodge cap or change dodge so that you can "partially" dodge attacks (aka give some form of damage mitigation). Right now you get to 30% dodge chance and your'e boned after that. Doesn't make sense especially since they nerfed STI a while back.

Yes. Dexterity pretty much blows defensively compared to Strength and Intelligence.
 

TheYanger

Member
They need to adjust dex to affect resistances even if it's at a way lower rate than the way int/str does after you pass the dodge cap or change dodge so that you can "partially" dodge attacks (aka give some form of damage mitigation). Right now you get to 30% dodge chance and your'e boned after that. Doesn't make sense especially since they nerfed STI a while back.

eh, armor isn't really that strong compared to resist either. The dex classes are still among the most survivable in the game so it doesn't much matter (DHs through pure hax, Monks cause of their skills).
 

scy

Member
eh, armor isn't really that strong compared to resist either. The dex classes are still among the most survivable in the game so it doesn't much matter (DHs through pure hax, Monks cause of their skills).

10 Armor = 1 All Resist. The only argument I can see here is that +Armor rolls are lower than +All Resist rolls but that's just due to all Armor having base Armor.
 

eek5

Member
eh, armor isn't really that strong compared to resist either. The dex classes are still among the most survivable in the game so it doesn't much matter (DHs through pure hax, Monks cause of their skills).

Armor is 1/10th same dmg mitigation as 1 pt of resis so 1 pt in str and 1pt of int give the same damage mitigation. So 8k str is equiv to 800 resis. What does monk get for 8k dex? 30% dodge and jack shit after that. Yeah u can dodge 30% of non-ground-effect damage but when you get hit? You're fucked.

With 7468 Dex I have a 34.4% chance to dodge attacks.
With 7468 Int or 7468 Str you would have +746 Resist All/7468 armor (roughly 68% damage reduction to elemental & physical damage)

You don't see a problem with that? lol
 

Wallach

Member
10 Armor = 1 All Resist. The only argument I can see here is that +Armor rolls are lower than +All Resist rolls but that's just due to all Armor having base Armor.

Well, remember too that this rule only applies overall when you're already at a ratio of 10:1 armor:resists. It won't take 10 armor to equate to 1 resist in the overall function if you have armor under a 10:1 ratio.
 

Card Boy

Banned
I really wish this was the Diablo 3 we got 2 years ago, it's so good now. From the worst game I ever bought to my most played now. I haven't touched Titanfall in a week.
 

scy

Member
Well, remember too that this rule only applies overall when you're already at a ratio of 10:1 armor:resists. It won't take 10 armor to equate to 1 resist in the overall function if you have armor under a 10:1 ratio.

Not quite. 10 Armor and 1 All Resist, regardless of their overall values, adds the same effective mitigation.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Dodge is garbage. I might as well not even have dodge to begin with and replace it with just more flat armor or some thing.

Dodge doesn't work against stuff that actually kills you. Can't dodge/mitigate Arcane Sentry, can't dodge Desecrator, Molten, Frozen damage (can dodge explosion but who gives a crap when those are easy to avoid anyway), Plague damage, Thunderstorm, Jailer damage, Wormhole damage, Vortex damage, Reflect damage etc. Most physical attacks you can mitigate by stunning the opponent.... what the hell do you do when you have an Elite pack that is covered with crap on the floor? You either turn on Mantra of Healing shield or you tag the enemy with a EP then run around while your teammates kill the enemy.


I have no idea how they can fix this. They probably need to rework the dodge mechanic or replace it entirely.
 
My god, the unavoidable Damage from Jailer (and to an extent Thunderstorm) is such a BS on higher Torments if you are a DH. Really great design.
 

Baliis

Member
Not quite. 10 Armor and 1 All Resist, regardless of their overall values, adds the same effective mitigation.

Point for point they're linear, but since they multiply it is slightly better to keep them balanced though. It's maybe like, 1% difference though and there's no way to reasonably balance them since AR rolls much higher on gear than armor does.
 

scy

Member
Point for point they're linear, but since they multiply it is slightly better to keep them balanced though. It's maybe like, 1% difference though and there's no way to reasonably balance them since AR rolls much higher on gear than armor does.

Yeah, if we're going that route then keeping them close is more efficient than stacking one way or the other.
 

Wallach

Member
Not quite. 10 Armor and 1 All Resist, regardless of their overall values, adds the same effective mitigation.

That's not what I'm getting at. They don't diminish within their own scaling, but because they both apply to all damage each one's value is relative to the other. Meaning within your own profile the only time 10 armor is actually worth 1 resist is when they are already at said ratio.
 

scy

Member
That's not what I'm getting at. They don't diminish within their own scaling, but because they both apply to all damage each one's value is relative to the other. Meaning within your own profile the only time 10 armor is actually worth 1 resist is when they are already at said ratio.

Fair enough. Though, the post I was responding to was just saying that Armor is flat out worse. Which is false :x They're equivalent at the ratio of 10:1. The exceptions are that +Armor rolls worse than All Resist and that you're better off having the 10:1 ratio than stacking one over the other.

Though, honestly, gearing +Armor is just not worth it compared to All Resist even with the whole ratio idea in mind.

Edit: Basically, just correcting the idea that 10,000 Armor with 500 All Resist is worse than 5,000 Armor with 1000 All Resist. The two are equivalent. Ideally, you'd have 7,500 and 750 but that's a different matter entirely :x
 

Wallach

Member
Fair enough. Though, the post I was responding to was just saying that Armor is flat out worse. Which is false :x They're equivalent at the ratio of 10:1. The exceptions are that +Armor rolls worse than All Resist and that you're better off having the 10:1 ratio than stacking one over the other.

Though, honestly, gearing +Armor is just not worth it compared to All Resist even with the whole ratio idea in mind.

A more useful rule of thumb is to just use A/R. This will give you a better idea if you can get enough Armor on an affix to gain more than an AR roll. It's actually become a little easier with the Armor% in Paragon.
 

TheYanger

Member
Is it even possible to find a good belt in ros? I'm still using my 60 witching hour or I'll lose 14-20% dps using a 70 belt

A) your old witching hour has like 0 toughness, it's easy to upgrade THAT.
B) new witching hours exist
C) Hellcat waistguards and crafted belts exist, not the same but still good
D) all of the belts that do special things are better anyway IE: Harrington Waistguard, the most OP belt in the game.
 
Doesn't smokescreen break root and keep you from being targeted for a couple seconds to escape?

Yes, but being Jailed does damage in itself that can't be dodged. And on higher Torment, thats quite a lot of hurt. Dodge is terrible as is, but when there is damage that can't even be dodged it's terribad ...
 

Iryx

Member
Doesn't smokescreen break root and keep you from being targeted for a couple seconds to escape?

The new jailer does damage when it applies the root. Don't know if the Jailer damage scales with the type of mob, but when I'm was farming T6 Hell Rifts, Sledge would oneshot my 6 mil toughness DH with Jailer.
 
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