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[Angelus Errare]

I've done like 500 Act 1 bags and gotten 3. It's not exactly that common. I've actually seen zero of the amulets, though, now that I think about it.



Yeah, I do pretty good.

I dunno, my Wizard is decently geared (~1.4M sheet, like 80% Fire Damage and a Mirrorball) but the difference between her and my Crusader isn't astronomical. Like, the Wizard Heat Wave clears trash faster but Shard of Hate + Fissure stacks is pretty fast boss damage. It's not the same, sure, but it's within like 70-80%. I think at this point (T4-5-6 areas), the difference isn't going to be that huge.

Well, unless I compare myself to 200M WD Pet crits.

You have one thing going for you that wizards won't have that will help you immensely in T4-T6...that new found survivability! I can clear T4 but damn does my death rate skyrocket from next to nothing to way too much.

You are also using a shard of hate . Replace SoH with any other weapon and you're nowhere near your wizard suddenly.

But since you have a SoH, you can carry my DH as repayment for all the times I carried you and Ash on my Wizard (OhSnap!.webm)

I agree with this in a lot of cases. Tons of % elemental damage is what separated me from the pack. I was talking to some idiots in general chat and they told me to die in a fire when I said that Crusaders were pretty gear dependent compared to most classes. Randoms always keeping it classy on the internet.

My Crusader still needs a little work, but I'm loving watching my Sweeps crit for 7 to 8 million. Fist of the Heavens for 4 to 5 and Hammers for 2.5 easily. This on top of 10 to 11 million Condemns stuff dies pretty quickly mainly doing T2 for speed. Torment 3 wasn't too bad, but stuff starts to hit harder etc. Going to shift some gems around for more survivability. I imagine once I got a Blade of Prophecy from Scourge (which is easily a couple mil a proc and I will have a hard time getting rid of my poison nova) I could be rocking even further switching from Lighting to Holy. My sheet DPS is around 750k with a nice SOJ, but even this could be pushed a little higher if I rerolled some items.

Which I get the fact that it's a gear dependent game, but I got to a million DPS pretty easily on my Wizard using mainly rates and a really good weapon drop.

Yea Crusaders are by and far the most gear dependent class even for a gear dependent game IMO. I personally don't have the patience, I find crusaders absolutely boring when they're just starting out while with pretty much every other class I can find enjoyment in them even without insane gear. Also that movement speed penalty annoys me.

I think Crusaders and Monks have the best looking armor in the game though.

 

[Tom Penny]

I've seen lots of decent crusaders and play with some but the reality is they move slow. Time is loot. That is one reason I don't think I will ever play the class. I think it's lame for a class to basically move much slower. I'm not sure if they have passives that help.

 

[eek5]

Speed pylon + 34% movespeed + MoC Annihilation + DS:Way of the falling star is both hilarious and awesome

Add in the bracers that give you movespeed and a conduit pylon and we're in business lol

 

[Raven77]

IMHO, wizards are tied with monk for 2nd worst class in the game, with crusader winning worst.
All the wizard builds that have very high dps require them being immobile, except for Wand of Woh fire build...

That's not true. I'm currently using a build that employes magic missle - conflagarate, Black Hole - event horizon and teleport. I am literally all over the battle, incredibly mobile and incredibly hard to kill while clearing the battlefield of dangerous elemental items. My DPS is also very high and only a little lower than it would be on a max DPS build.

 

[Phenomic]

I've seen lots of decent crusaders and play with some but the reality is they move slow. Time is loot. That is one reason I don't think I will ever play the class. I think it's lame for a class to basically move much slower. I'm not sure if they have passives that help.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/hellskull

Best thing Kadala has ever given me was my swiftness back.

 

[Discobird]

I've gotten 5 of them (they all sucked)

It's neither rare nor hard to farm

I'm not saying he's lucky for finding one at all, I'm saying he's lucky for finding one in his first bounties in two weeks

 

[scy]

You have one thing going for you that wizards won't have that will help you immensely in T4-T6...that new found survivability! I can clear T4 but damn does my death rate skyrocket from next to nothing to way too much.

You are also using a shard of hate . Replace SoH with any other weapon and you're nowhere near your wizard suddenly.

Replace my SoH with a 20% Skycutter / Fate of the Fell / Blade of Prophecy and I'll be fine :x

That's not true. I'm currently using a build that employes magic missle - conflagarate, Black Hole - event horizon and teleport. I am literally all over the battle, incredibly mobile and incredibly hard to kill while clearing the battlefield of dangerous elemental items. My DPS is also very high and only a little lower than it would be on a max DPS build.

Barring the Teleport, that's basically every Mirrorball Wizard. It's still at it's best without moving (Unwavering Will). And I'm fairly sure he's referencing T4-6 levels of damage where you really want to making use of everything you can for damage. Wizards excel at the lower Torments / content they radically outgear.

 

[Taz]

Sheet damage isn't 1:1 across all classes. Just because you have as much sheet damage as another person doesn't really mean you're doing as much DPS as they are and that's before taking into account +elemental damage. Comparing other classes' sheet damage to yours really isn't going to do you any favors.

Honestly you probably need nearly double of the other classes to do as much DPS as them. Crusaders are currently the bottom class of the DPS totempole unfortunately. But hey...you guys have awesome looking shields.

Statements like this are just so un true, a Crusader with 6 piece set bonus and the Condemned weapon are not far from if not the same as a Barb with TF and SoH and can melt elites on T6 in seconds.

 

[Jin]

Over weekend I got Fulminator 2300dps and Odyn's Son, 2000dps. For a lightening whirlwind Barb which one do I equip as main hand? The Fulminator? I usually play 2 handed barb and dual wielding always confuses me.

 

[V_Arnold]

Statements like this are just so un true, a Crusader with 6 piece set bonus and the Condemned weapon are not far from if not the same as a Barb with TF and SoH and can melt elites on T6 in seconds.

So untrue? Sheet damage is NOTHING.
Here is what matters:

a. What skills do you use? How big of a weapon damage modifier do those skills have?
b. Can you infinitely go at a monster with your skills, or do you do your damage in sparse bursts? Any way of short-circuiting it?
c. Do you generate more resource than you generally need? Or do you starve for it?

During two seconds:
Player A has 500k sheet dps, uses 4 skills on mob A that deals 300% weapon damage.
Player B has 1000k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A doing 450% weapon damage
Player C has 500k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A that deals 1000% weapon damage and uses 2 skills that deals 200%
Player D has 700k sheet dps, uses a long CD skill that does 2500% weapon damage and two signatures, that does 150% per hit.

Which player did the most damage? This is before factoring in specific elemental damages, damage efficiency (aka hitting a near-dead mob with your long cooldown spell, or not using your skill at its max potential).

 

[Shifty76]

I've gotten 5 of them (they all sucked)

It's neither rare nor hard to farm

I spent about 10 hrs over the weekend doing nothing but A1 bounties trying for that ring. Must have opened 100+ bags. Nada

 

[Raticus79]

Shard of Hate + the cold rune on Tempest Rush looks like fun.

 

[Fenderputty]

I spent about 10 hrs over the weekend doing nothing but A1 bounties trying for that ring. Must have opened 100+ bags. Nada

That's all I did this weekend was act 1 and mats farming. I got nada as well.

 

[Taz]

So untrue? Sheet damage is NOTHING.
Here is what matters:

a. What skills do you use? How big of a weapon damage modifier do those skills have?
b. Can you infinitely go at a monster with your skills, or do you do your damage in sparse bursts? Any way of short-circuiting it?
c. Do you generate more resource than you generally need? Or do you starve for it?

During two seconds:
Player A has 500k sheet dps, uses 4 skills on mob A that deals 300% weapon damage.
Player B has 1000k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A doing 450% weapon damage
Player C has 500k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A that deals 1000% weapon damage and uses 2 skills that deals 200%
Player D has 700k sheet dps, uses a long CD skill that does 2500% weapon damage and two signatures, that does 150% per hit.

Which player did the most damage? This is before factoring in specific elemental damages, damage efficiency (aka hitting a near-dead mob with your long cooldown spell, or not using your skill at its max potential).

Wow calm down dude I was on about Crusader been bottom of the dps pile

 

[Tom Penny]

Shard of Hate + the cold rune on Tempest Rush looks like fun.

I was using that yesterday. Don't recall it working. Did see all the enemies with stars around their heads. Maybe I chose the wrong rune or didn't notice the trail.

 

[V_Arnold]

Wow calm down dude I was on about Crusader been bottom of the dps pile

Ah, okay. I reacted not solely on your post but more to the ongoing "sheet dps vs calculating effective damage" debate.

 

[Fularu]

I spent about 10 hrs over the weekend doing nothing but A1 bounties trying for that ring. Must have opened 100+ bags. Nada

10 hours to farm a specific item is nothing. You'll eventually get it, just laws of probability.

On the other hand, I'll probably never get a TF and a SoH

 

[Not Spaceghost]

10 hours to farm a specific item is nothing. You'll eventually get it, just laws of probability.

On the other hand, I'll probably never get a TF and a SoH

As was said on the GAF mumble yesterday evening, you don't get a Shard of Hate. Shard of Hate gets you.

 

[Insaniac]

what are the best shields for survivability? (this includes anything with an intersting proc)

I've been using a Wall of Man, but I'm almost convinced the proc doesn't do shit

 

[Raven77]

So untrue? Sheet damage is NOTHING.
Here is what matters:

a. What skills do you use? How big of a weapon damage modifier do those skills have?
b. Can you infinitely go at a monster with your skills, or do you do your damage in sparse bursts? Any way of short-circuiting it?
c. Do you generate more resource than you generally need? Or do you starve for it?

During two seconds:
Player A has 500k sheet dps, uses 4 skills on mob A that deals 300% weapon damage.
Player B has 1000k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A doing 450% weapon damage
Player C has 500k sheet dps, uses 2 skills on mob A that deals 1000% weapon damage and uses 2 skills that deals 200%
Player D has 700k sheet dps, uses a long CD skill that does 2500% weapon damage and two signatures, that does 150% per hit.

Which player did the most damage? This is before factoring in specific elemental damages, damage efficiency (aka hitting a near-dead mob with your long cooldown spell, or not using your skill at its max potential).

Agree 100%. I run Torment 3 public games and sometimes have people trying to call me out for being "carried" because my sheet DPS is not insanely high. They fail to factor in 1. how my build works. 2. the high amount of proc-gear that I have and 3. the fact that my build is meant to distract and contain enemies, making it easier for the group to lay waste to them for maximum damage. I partner with a lot of barbarians that love the fact that black hole bunches the enemies up.

 

[Mugaaz]

That's not true. I'm currently using a build that employes magic missle - conflagarate, Black Hole - event horizon and teleport. I am literally all over the battle, incredibly mobile and incredibly hard to kill while clearing the battlefield of dangerous elemental items. My DPS is also very high and only a little lower than it would be on a max DPS build.

How are you mobile if you use magic missle, it cannot be cast while moving. What is complicated about this concept? I'm well aware of MM-conflag, it does nice DPS, but so what? Other classes deal tons of DPS WHILE MOVING. If another class is applying his DPS as he moves through mobs, he will clear the map faster than you even if he has lower DPS. I played a shitload of wizard, the abilties are cool and all, but theyre all stationary...unless you get Wand of Woh, which I never did. I have a lot of faith in that build, but I wasn't going to grind continously for 1 single legendary. My barb has SoH/TF/OS and its hillarious. Even with lower DPS I was getting faster clear times just continuously sprinting through the map while spinning. Granted that weapon combo is as hard to get as a WoW.

The dealbreaker to me with wizard is their sets. Theyre just not compelling. They all sound cool, but thats it. The other classes sets really allow for some game-changing / breaking shit. These are the items youre going to be pursuing after you hit soft-cap on gear and this was not a big enough carrot for me on Wizard.

Agree 100%. I run Torment 3 public games and sometimes have people trying to call me out for being "carried" because my sheet DPS is not insanely high. They fail to factor in 1. how my build works. 2. the high amount of proc-gear that I have and 3. the fact that my build is meant to distract and contain enemies, making it easier for the group to lay waste to them for maximum damage. I partner with a lot of barbarians that love the fact that black hole bunches the enemies up.

Anyone who calls you out based on sheet dps is an idiot, and their opinion can be safely ignored. I will call you out for being carried if your char does nothing in the group, but that will be based on seeing how fast your dude kills stuff and if you are not bringing anything to the party. This will be true regardless of how high or low your sheet numbers are.

 

[Kadin]

Anyone willing to give my Wizard a critique and what I should focus on next? I know I need more legs but with my current gear, I feel like I'm pretty much at the point where nothing can be really upgraded as it is.

Still running Frozen Orb with Cold/Orb dmg at +79% along with Electrocute. I'm doing just fine in T1 but I'd like to kick it up a bit into T2/3. What should I spend my blood shards on?

 

[Fularu]

As was said on the GAF mumble yesterday evening, you don't get a Shard of Hate. Shard of Hate gets you.

Doesn't change what I said

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Doesn't change what I said

Hahaha true well okay let me put it this way.

As Confucius once said: Stop looking for shard of hate, the desire sensor is strong in this game. It will come when you are least wanting it / expecting it.

 

[DSmalls84]

what are the best shields for survivability? (this includes anything with an intersting proc)

I've been using a Wall of Man, but I'm almost convinced the proc doesn't do shit

Defender of Westmarch is by far the best shield I have found. I haven't seen a lvl 70 Stormshield yet though.

 

[jkanownik]

Played for 45 minutes at lunch: 3 x T1 rifts = 2 leg, 2 set + 2 souls

Items were all junk, but were used to reroll 2 sockets in a pair of Weight of the Earth (set pants) I had sitting around.

I'm really enjoying the choices I have in playing right now. Sometimes I run specific areas looking for crafting materials, sometimes T1 rift runs, sometimes T3 rift runs and sometimes split bounties. My objectives vary from getting materials, souls, gold, arcane dust or veiled crystals. At any point I'm out of one of those. I look at item drops as a bonus.

 

[Shouta]

I haven't had an issue at all with Crusader DPS so far but I'm relying on speed, AOE and procs to help me clear out stuff rather than try to squeeze as much damage using a 2H weapon. I ran with eek and jres last week and they were melting the T1 mobs we were fighting but they also had more sheet DPS than I, jres had like 2x more, lol.

 

[Granadier]

Shard of Hate + the cold rune on Tempest Rush looks like fun.

Add Epiph + Inner Fire and that would be even more amazing.

 

[Trickster]

*rant post*

So I've been pretty uniterested in playing this game the last couple of days, due to just feeling that the game doesn't offer a lot of reasons to keep playing once you hit that gear wall on a character. But today some friends talked me into running rifts with them. So I ran rifts for a couple of hours, only getting terrible stuff the entire time ( yay forgotten souls!... ). Then, on the last run of the night, I get some set gloves. Immediate excitement kicks in because I can see they are from the Vyr set. The excitement quickly gets turned into me laughing at how fucking stupid this game actually is. These gloves are litterally the second torment only set items I've gotten since RoS released. And they are just utter fucking trash

No one would want to use these over any rare gloves that are decently rolled...

God, this game is just so fucking frustrating. It does some things really well. But it also does so many things, so fucking terribly. Why oh why do these set items, that are supposed to be really fun and exciting to get, when you finally find them on torment levels, able to just roll in a way that makes them worse than effing rare items? It just doesn't make fucking sense to me. How can blizzard not manage to properly fix the loot aspect ( and all the other shit that's wrong with the game ) of this game in the 2 years they've had to fix it since d3 released?

 

[jblank83]

they also had more sheet DPS than I, jres had like 2x more, lol.

Am up to 1.4m now, not counting all the +arc and +blades

To be fair, on that character I've put in about 80 hours since loot 2.0 and have found some very nice equips.

Personal experience with Crusader is that they're the most gear dependent class in the game. They have some really awesome special items that extend their abilities, but getting them is the tough part.

 

[garath]

Played for 45 minutes at lunch: 3 x T1 rifts = 2 leg, 2 set + 2 souls

Items were all junk, but were used to reroll 2 sockets in a pair of Weight of the Earth (set pants) I had sitting around.

I'm really enjoying the choices I have in playing right now. Sometimes I run specific areas looking for crafting materials, sometimes T1 rift runs, sometimes T3 rift runs and sometimes split bounties. My objectives vary from getting materials, souls, gold, arcane dust or veiled crystals. At any point I'm out of one of those. I look at item drops as a bonus.

Lucky.

 

[Dahbomb]

Those gloves are solid.

Roll life Regen to CHD. You generally don't even need attack speed for Wizard all that much. That plus the set bonuses would allow it to beat any Rare easily.

Area damage is underrated as well.

 

[Anoregon]

*rant post*

I'm slightly confused, if you reroll the regen to crit damage those gloves would be very good.

 

[forgeforsaken]

what are the best shields for survivability? (this includes anything with an intersting proc)

I've been using a Wall of Man, but I'm almost convinced the proc doesn't do shit

Coven's Criterion is really good.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/covens-criterion-dzvKS

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

Those gloves are solid.

Roll life Regen to CHD. You generally don't even need attack speed for Wizard all that much. That plus the set bonuses would allow it to beat any Rare easily.

Area damage is underrated as well.

Was about to say. As long as you've got CritC and CritD you're good to go. These have 9.5% CritC so they can still be decently enough. I really don't care much for IAS these days.

Now had you rolled 8% CC out of the possible 10% as I do with every single fucking legendary item, now then I would completely agree to the rage.

 

[Shouta]

Am up to 1.4m now, not counting all the +arc and +blades

To be fair, on that character I've put in about 80 hours since loot 2.0 and have found some very nice equips.

Personal experience with Crusader is that they're the most gear dependent class in the game. They have some really awesome special items that extend their abilities, but getting them is the tough part.

Yeah, I don't have as much time on my Crusader but it's about as geared as my Monk now because of luck with drops, lol. I think you only really need one piece of gear to really build a crusader around. Any other is adding more on top.

I've got a Thunderfury, which was my first major leg for Crusader and it let me focus on Glor Orbs + TF procs for AOE. I got the Heaven's Fury Shield later and now those form the backbone of my setup currently. Fast walkspeed, lightning and holy everywhere, and pretty decent enough defense.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shouta-1258/hero/43526959

In-game DPS is probably closer to 600k though.

 

[jblank83]

I think you only really need one piece of gear to really build a crusader around. Any other is adding more on top.

I'd say that's a fair estimation. One of their awesome weapons or shields can make all the difference.

 

[Dahbomb]

On the topic of Crusader...

They have "low DPS" until they get Shard of Hate and then they start wiping out T4/T5 mobs with FoH - Fissure or they get Blade of Prophecy to wipe out packs with in a single blow.

It's really hard to say what class has what damage when items procs are so powerful. You would have to compare similar items and even then it's not accurate (different spells work differently with items).

At this point as long as an item like SoH exists no class does low damage.


Also does anyone have one of those DPS check calculators? I need to check my DPS for like 3 different set ups without wasting like 5 million gold socketing and unsocketing max tier gems.

 

[Fularu]

Hahaha true well okay let me put it this way.

As Confucius once said: Stop looking for shard of hate, the desire sensor is strong in this game. It will come when you are least wanting it / expecting it.

Actually I'm looking for my barb set! Weapons come and go but set items? Nope!

But rings, stop giving me rings 2 out of 3 times already. Even my followers have SoJs now

 

[Raven77]

How are you mobile if you use magic missle, it cannot be cast while moving. What is complicated about this concept? I'm well aware of MM-conflag, it does nice DPS, but so what?...

Not every class is meant to be a mobile killing machine. If they were all OP tanks the game would become boring fast. This build is mobile because when I teleport it creates mirror images that increase my fire power (figuratively). So although I'm not "moving and damaging at the same time" I'm still getting across the battlefield faster than any other class. So while another class may be running out of danger, reducing their DPS to a degree while fleeing to a safe zone, I can teleport to the safe zone instantly and immediately start blasting the enemy(s) at 100% dps.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Thanks Kadala!

Pretty happy with it, should I bother rerolling any of the stats?

Also found this Scourge. Proc sounds cool, should I reroll the Vit for IAS or Damage %?

My armory for reference.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BarrowRoll-1241/hero/43684972

 

[garath]

On the topic of Crusader...

They have "low DPS" until they get Shard of Hate and then they start wiping out T4/T5 mobs with FoH - Fissure or they get Blade of Prophecy to wipe out packs with in a single blow.

It's really hard to say what class has what damage when items procs are so powerful. You would have to compare similar items and even then it's not accurate (different spells work differently with items).

At this point as long as an item like SoH exists no class does low damage.


Also does anyone have one of those DPS check calculators? I need to check my DPS for like 3 different set ups without wasting like 5 million gold socketing and unsocketing max tier gems.

If a class damage depends on one of three or so legendary weapon procs, I think it's safe to say that the CLASS doesn't have the dps. The weapon does.

A wizard does more damage with a mirrorball but they aren't dependent on it to do the deeps. A DH with 600k and nothing but rares does more damage with a CA build than a crusader with 600k and nothing but rares.

 

[Violentine]

I recommend resource reduction

 

[Kyoufu]

Still no Shard of Hate or Thunderfury, but I did manage to get a Stone of Jordan and Unity ring with good rolls today. My damage has gone up!

But boy do I need a good weapon. Fulminator isn't cutting it.

 

[Trickster]

I'm slightly confused, if you reroll the regen to crit damage those gloves would be very good.

They'd be decent if you rerolled regen. But they'd still essentially be a 3 stat item with only decent and zero survivability.

And the fact that any good rare gloves would be better is just absolutely ridiculous imo.

 

[Tom Penny]

Still no Shard of Hate or Thunderfury, but I did manage to get a Stone of Jordan and Unity ring with good rolls today. My damage has gone up!

But boy do I need a good weapon. Fulminator isn't cutting it.

Fulminator is trash against single target since it's proc doesn't work against itself and that's the best part of the weapon.

 

[scy]

Not every class is meant to be a mobile killing machine. If they were all OP tanks the game would become boring fast. This build is mobile because when I teleport it creates mirror images that increase my fire power (figuratively). So although I'm not "moving and damaging at the same time" I'm still getting across the battlefield faster than any other class. So while another class may be running out of danger, reducing their DPS to a degree while fleeing to a safe zone, I can teleport to the safe zone instantly and immediately start blasting the enemy(s) at 100% dps.

I mean, that's nice but you could just do more damage without needing all the other stuff. That's all he's getting at.

Besides, crossing the map fast doesn't really mean much in this game.

I think you only really need one piece of gear to really build a crusader around. Any other is adding more on top.

Hm. I dunno. It really depends on the quality of that one drop. For most, you're talking about needing a good amount of drops (3-4) pieces to supplement whatever you're using. There's exceptions, sure, but most aren't standalone.

 

[Shouta]

If a class damage depends on one of three or so legendary weapon procs, I think it's safe to say that the CLASS doesn't have the dps. The weapon does.

A wizard does more damage with a mirrorball but they aren't dependent on it to do the deeps. A DH with 600k and nothing but rares does more damage with a CA build than a crusader with 600k and nothing but rares.

My Crusader wouldn't produce that much less damage if I didn't have my TF or Eberli. Glory Orbs, Zeal, and FotH - Divine Well produces the most damage for me and Bombardment/Heaven's Fury is my single target damage. In fact, It feels like the Glory Orbs (lv. 3 anyway) procs more often than the TF, lol. Akkarat's Champ - Rally helps me get them again to kill a champ pack faster by refreshing my Bombardment or my heaven's Fury even faster.

 

[V_Arnold]

They'd be decent if you rerolled regen. But they'd still essentially be a 3 stat item with only decent and zero survivability.

And the fact that any good rare gloves would be better is just absolutely ridiculous imo.

- No, they would not, you get Vyr gear for set bonus, or you get another gear.
- Wizards Do not nead IAS, you got a +res stat on it AND int (67 all res on that glove alone, with 2 piece setbonus, it becomes 117 or 92 if you want to divide bonuses between glove1/2), so they are not zero survivability
- A Glove that has a GOOD amount of int (basically less than this one), has trifecta on it (almost impossible) AND all res is pretty much a miracle.

It is not "any rare gloves", it is "any gloves that fit my description and has an insanely low chance for me to have anyway". There is a HUGE difference between those.

And then again, even if those are better, you would still equip it for the set bonus if you use an Archon build, so that's that.
(+1: I have a useless Vyr glove as well, and I do not give a shit about that set. Welcome to the club!)

 

[Insaniac]

Does anyone know a good approximation of the All resist / HP / Life per sec ratio for optimized survivability?