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[Pyros_Eien]

Wizard has teleport as a default skill which is among the best movement skills in the game. It's better than what classes like Barb, Crusaders, DH and WD have. Only Dashing Strike is really better than Teleport.

Teleport base cooldown is terrible which is why you need the wand. Vault or Smokescreen with movement rune are like way way better, Spirit Walk tends to be better(invuln for a bunch of time, slightly shorter cd, resets faster with kills though not relevant at high GR).

I mean with the wand, Teleport is amazing and probably the best pure movement skill(other than for bounties on which majuma chicken is imo on the long runs like act5 garbage), but without, even with good CDR it's so so, especially since it's pretty much the only mobility you have other than illusionist+mirror image or whatever which is like meh.

 

[twobear]

Wizard has teleport as a default skill which is among the best movement skills in the game. It's better than what classes like Barb, Crusaders, DH and WD have. Only Dashing Strike is really better than Teleport.

in what sense is teleport better than vault?

Teleport base cooldown is terrible which is why you need the wand. Vault or Smokescreen with movement rune are like way way better, Spirit Walk tends to be better(invuln for a bunch of time, slightly shorter cd, resets faster with kills though not relevant at high GR).

I mean with the wand, Teleport is amazing and probably the best pure movement skill(other than for bounties on which majuma chicken is imo on the long runs like act5 garbage), but without, even with good CDR it's so so, especially since it's pretty much the only mobility you have other than illusionist+mirror image or whatever which is like meh.

exactly, the cd kills any chance that teleport had of being a 'good' mobility spell

 

[Dahbomb]

Vault costs precious Discipline (unless you have Danetta then it costs Hatred) as does Smoke Screen. For Vault to be good you need to run the proper rune plus the Tactical Advantage passive. And even after that you kinda want to run the Danetta dual wield set for maximum speed farming capability. That's a lot more investment than putting a Wand in a cube.

Main difference between Wizard and DH is that with Nats set DH can attack while moving so it's more effecient. Same for Barbs WW and Monk U6/R6. Wiz can't do that really yet unless there's a spec made with the Firebird where you can just start burning mobs while moving around. Remember that the buff from the 6 pc is enemy burning, not enemy within range so as long as they are burning (like at the entrance and you are at the exit) they are taking massive damage. With the right spec that could be an insane speed farm build.

 

[Firemind]

Did they fix the part where your teleports can't go through walls if the area is closed off by doors? That was such bullshit.

Can't say I'll ever get used to teleport with an internal cooldown. Instead of basing it off your attack speed LIKE EVERY OTHER SKILL.

 

[twobear]

Vault costs precious Discipline (unless you have Danetta then it costs Hatred) as does Smoke Screen. For Vault to be good you need to run the proper rune plus the Tactical Advantage passive. And even after that you kinda want to run the Danetta dual wield set for maximum speed farming capability. That's a lot more investment than putting a Wand in a cube.

if you cube an aether walker you're using precious arcane power though. like 1/5 of your base supply just to teleport with no cooldown.

 

[Dahbomb]

if you cube an aether walker you're using precious arcane power though. like 1/5 of your base supply just to teleport with no cooldown.

You know there's an item coming in 2.4 that greatly reduces cost of your channeling spells and another item that auto casts all your spenders for you? So you can just use your Arcane power to teleport then channel for a bit to get the Arcane crits going and drop a bunch of spenders for free.

Or depending on how that Firebird set works you probably won't even need to spend that much Arcane power to get the burns going and then teleport around while stuff burns.

In any case this conversation only really covers TX because Aether Walker is not going to be used for high GR. Wizards will melt stuff in TX easy, I am not even concerned about that. It's how the sets/items stack up in higher GRS and how well a Wizard works in a group. That's the main issue right now.

Just like GR70 was the new GR60 in S4... GR80 will be the new 70 for solo in S5. So we'll see if these sets can do GR80 or not.

 

[twobear]

well i don't see anything in this patch that makes wizards viable for group play, unless i'm missing something.

 

[Dahbomb]

well i don't see anything in this patch that makes wizards viable for group play, unless i'm missing something.

We don't know what the group compositions will be in 2.4. Too much is changing and with no brain dead heals from Monk it's going to be a vastly different meta. Monks might still make it in if that Litany set remains because Monks would be able to use an Exploding Palm build for group play. Beyond that it's a free for all until PTR hits live.

If I had to guess I would say that the meta might have support Monk/Barb/Crusader with a couple of DPSers at long range like DH and Wizard. But this is a shot in the dark guess. More than likely someone will find a broken support spec and a broken DPS spec which will be the go to group spec. That's pretty much how it has been forever. DH and Wiz used to be used for DPS a few seasons ago but with the CC changes it makes it hard for them in groups.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Vault costs precious Discipline (unless you have Danetta then it costs Hatred) as does Smoke Screen. For Vault to be good you need to run the proper rune plus the Tactical Advantage passive. And even after that you kinda want to run the Danetta dual wield set for maximum speed farming capability. That's a lot more investment than putting a Wand in a cube.

Main difference between Wizard and DH is that with Nats set DH can attack while moving so it's more effecient. Same for Barbs WW and Monk U6/R6. Wiz can't do that really yet unless there's a spec made with the Firebird where you can just start burning mobs while moving around. Remember that the buff from the 6 pc is enemy burning, not enemy within range so as long as they are burning (like at the entrance and you are at the exit) they are taking massive damage. With the right spec that could be an insane speed farm build.

Discipline is only precious if you use UE, otherwise it's literally there for movement abilities(or defensive stuff but if you use smoke screen you might as well get the movespeed rune on it, which makes it a movement skill also and generally what people pick). Last I checked, and it was like a month ago, UE wasn't even the top tier spec for DH anyway(it was close though), so can't really say that's the case for most DH, and it'll be even less true once they fix marauder and buff shadow set, assuming balance is alright.

On the doing damage while moving, that's an issue for fast farming, though some builds do it fine(like monk speed farming builds don't use tempest rush, at least until next patch, they just stop and hit stuff once then move on and they farm pretty quick). Also Firebird doesn't burn stuff offscreen, like most dots. Stuff will start burning again if you run back, but you can't just fly through a level burning everything once and letting it burn until it dies, just like you can't run around with wormwod and a 2:30mins locust swarm spec and kill stuff offscreen on a WD, would be too OP. You have to kill them while you're on the screen(or well, relatively close, it does damage offscreen, just not too far offscreen). Unless you mean like leave a bunch of mobs alive burning at the entrance of a rift on purpose so you have permanent buff, but I would assume it only counts stuff actively burning on your screen rather than everything in the dungeon including stuff that's far away.

I wonder if there won't be a pretty cool build with the cast on channel legendary and like frost ray pbaoe rune and autocasting energy twisters with the pulling bracers, Arcane Orb that spawns around you and Heat Wave, so you just blink into a pack, then hold Ray of Frost and it pulls everything onto you with twisters(and onto the twisters) and into your Heat Wave/Arcane Orb spam. Maybe it'd summon Hydras too? I think it might be pretty decent, not too sure how good the twister pulling bracers are in terms of cooldown on the pull and if it's per individual twisters or what or how the channel autocasting legendary will work(cast everything at once, cast spells randomly 1 by 1 etc).

 

[Dahbomb]

If you can't burn stuff off screen then that makes it a lot weaker for speed farming.

Somehow I feel like in some patch you could burn stuff off screen and they changed it because it was too powerful.

 

[twobear]

We don't know what the group compositions will be in 2.4. Too much is changing and with no brain dead heals from Monk it's going to be a vastly different meta. Monks might still make it in if that Litany set remains because Monks would be able to use an Exploding Palm build for group play. Beyond that it's a free for all until PTR hits live.

If I had to guess I would say that the meta might have support Monk/Barb/Crusader with a couple of DPSers at long range like DH and Wizard. But this is a shot in the dark guess. More than likely someone will find a broken support spec and a broken DPS spec which will be the go to group spec. That's pretty much how it has been forever. DH and Wiz used to be used for DPS a few seasons ago but with the CC changes it makes it hard for them in groups.

i think it's a problem of game design in diablo wrt to groups, honestly. because there's basically only one meaningful measure of what you contribute to a group (dps) (yes there are supports in groups, but imma put that issue aside for now), there's no differentiation between classes. you just pick whatever the most damaging class is in any particular patch, which can be literally any of them. but the design of the classes doesn't necessarily reflect that fact. the only meaningful difference is what your abilities look like.

removing innate damage resistance for half the classes would be a good start, because there's no reason why they need it given that their dps is as high as any other class and the ranged/melee distinction is practically meaningless at higher levels.

 

[Dahbomb]

You mean removing the damage reduction bonus of Melee classes? That's a bad suggestion because range classes don't have to deal with numerous affixes that Melee classes have to always deal with like Electrified, Plague, Fire Chain, Molten etc. There are very few anti ranged affixes like Missile Dampening (not even a big range counter) and Mortar (can be avoided actively). I guess Vortex is one too but Melee classes can be hit by Vortex too.

So even though you can get one shotted more easily think of all the times you don't have to stand in a pool of fire just so you can maximize damage output.

Of course because of the Heal Monk these anti Melee affixes didn't matter because the classes could heal over it. It's also why Melee classes were good in 2.4 because they could always be in range of the support Monk and never die. That's why they had to nerf the heal Monk, it created an obscene imbalance in the game's dynamics.

 

[twobear]

there are a bunch of mob affixes that close the gap between you and them. teleporting mobs can be a total nightmare for a ranged class because it means all of those affixes are a threat to them too.

another possibility could be to bring back damage immunity affixes from diablo 2, but i'm guessing that would be insanely unpopular.

 

[Dahbomb]

http://www.diablofans.com

The exact Legendary affixes and the items are now datamined.

Good thing that quite a few of those new Monk items are Bracers.

 

[Dahbomb]

Stonegod is back boys!!!!

http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/60875-is-stonesinger-back-in-the-game

 

[taybul]

Hm with this new Shadow DH set I wonder if people will just offhand a dagger and go for the 2pc bonus (+1000% dmg with melee weapon equipped) and mix it with another set. I'm also remembering that a lot of skills require bows which would severely limit skill set if one were to use a melee weapon on the main hand.

 

[Dahbomb]

Hm with this new Shadow DH set I wonder if people will just offhand a dagger and go for the 2pc bonus (+1000% dmg with melee weapon equipped) and mix it with another set. I'm also remembering that a lot of skills require bows which would severely limit skill set if one were to use a melee weapon on the main hand.

You can use Grenades/Spike Trap/Chakram/Impale/Caltrops/Fan of Knives without a Bow. I guess that's the point of the set is to buff those skills.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Actual patch notes btw, they have more stuff than the Diablofans cleaned up stuff:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/19941042/patch-240-ptr-patch-notes-11-11-2015

Natalya got some pretty big buffs, and a lot of legendaries that buff a specific skill in a way also give 75-100% dmg to that skill now(like most of the weapon/shields for crusaders).


Manticore

Legendary Power added
Reduces the cost of Cluster Arrow by 75-100%
Now rolls with +30-40% Cluster Arrow damage

They might have mixed those 2 numbers I guess, cause 100%cost reduction on cluster looks beyond broken.

 

[Dahbomb]

Attack speed will no longer cause Whirlwind to attack faster; instead the resource cost and damage will scale with attack speed

Seems like a change to fix the lag that is being caused by the WW set in higher GRs.

Strafe
Attack speed will no longer cause Strafe to attack faster; instead the resource cost and damage will scale with attack speed

This too I am guessing.

Fixed an issue that caused Exploding Palm - Impending Doom to overwrite other players' Exploding Palms
Fixed an issue that prevented the Exploding Palms applied by the Uliana's Stragegem (2) Set Bonus from benefitting from Way of the Hundred Fists - Assimilation's damage bonus

Thank god for that.

 

[Ashodin]

Chain of Shadows, Belt: After using Impale, Vault costs no resource for 2 seconds.
Sword of Ill Will, Sword: Chakram deals 0.01 - 0.014*100% increased damage for every point of Hatred you have.
Visage of Gunes, Helm: Vengeance gains the effect of the Dark Heart rune.
Karlei's Point, Dagger: Impale returns 10 - 15 Hatred if it hits an enemy already Impaled.

I will use all of these

 

[Brawndo Addict]

I wish they would just delete/nerf F&R already, it hurts build diversification and experimentation more than anything else in the game I think.

 

[Bisnic]

Fixed an issue that caused Exploding Palm - Impending Doom to overwrite other players' Exploding Palms.

Does that mean that Madstone is no longer necessary for multiple monks groups?

 

[Dahbomb]

I wish they would just delete/nerf F&R already, it hurts build diversification and experimentation more than anything else in the game I think.

Well that Legacy of Nightmares set and that new channeling ring + amulet set are competitive with F&R for certain builds.

 

[Ricerocket]

I wish they had a way to make PTR download less like grabbing data from original game atleast. >_> Well good time to play some Fallout until this is done. I'm looking forward to try this.

Firebirds 6pc (helm, glove, chest, legs, boots, shoulder or source depending on Sigil)
Mantle of Channeling (shoulder) - While channeling Whirlwind, Rapid Fire, Strafe, Tempest Rush, Firebats, Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, or Ray of Frost, you deal 20-25% increased damage and take 25% reduced damage
Deathwish (sword) - While channeling Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, or Ray of Frost, all damage is increased by 75-100%
Etched Sigil (source) - Your Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, and Ray of Frost also cast your other damaging Arcane Power Spenders every second
Hergbrash's Bindings - Reduces the Arcane Power cost of Arcane Torrent, Disintegrate, and Ray of Frost by 50-65%
Endless Walk (rings) - While moving, damage taken is reduced by up to 50%, While standing still, damage dealt is increased by up to 100%

 

[Baliis]

It's a shame nothing in 2.4 really jumps out at me, can't decide what I wanna play next season. Maybe a wizard or WD again? Melee DH alt for sure though just because.

Actually, something I'd be interested in trying would be like a support barb running the new litany set with like, frost burns + rimeheart or something. I wonder what sort of damage you could pull.

 

[Omnicent]

Akkhan's Manacles + Legacy of Nightmares... Is it possible Captain Crusader will make a return (probably not, but I can dream right)?

 

[JoeMartin]

Wizard for me. I can finally death ray things in a viable gear set. Hooray.

So many awesome changes in this patch.

Morlu Incinerators
Greatly increased the cooldown of their teleport

Winged Assassins
Slightly reduced damage dealt

Wraiths
Reduced the range of their Soul Siphon attack
Reduced damage dealt.

Holy hell these are the three best changes in the patch notes.

 

[Dahbomb]

Akkhan's Manacles + Legacy of Nightmares... Is it possible Captain Crusader will make a return (probably not, but I can dream right)?

Most likely yes. I mean it will return and be decent damage wise but whether it be best build that has yet to be seen of course.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Well that Legacy of Nightmares set and that new channeling ring + amulet set are competitive with F&R for certain builds.

F&R just seem like the Piloted Shredder of Diablo. Yes, it's good to make other jewelry that can compete with them, but F&R are just so obscenely good by themselves that it kind of restricts the design space to the point where it seems like it would be healthier to nerf them rather than having to outperform them.

 

[Dahbomb]

LMAO Pet Monk is legit!

ROFL DatModz blasting GR70 with crappy gear. He's using Static Charge Monk with Inna set and having the pets proc Static Charge on top of the Pets doing more damage than him anyway!

Though I guess the mob health has been nerfed in solo play anyway so he's probably closer to GR60ish of the old version.


I think before the first PTR patch is implemented someone will clear GR90.

 

[IceMarker]

Man, these patches get better and better! PTR better have the Legendary community buff!

 

[Dahbomb]

Man, these patches get better and better! PTR better have the Legendary community buff!

It does have it.

The Shadow DH set is stupendously fun!

 

[Ricerocket]

PTR is really nice right now. No queues, server side buff for loots (doesnt show as buff icon)

 

[Dahbomb]

Most classes are using that new Litany set and crushing past GR80 (I think Monk is only class right now that isn't topping with the Litany, Static charge still doing past GR80).

Nerf incoming for sure. The highest WD was some pet/dart Litany build which was pretty cool. I hope they don't nerf it too hard though.

 

[Ashodin]

The PTR for 2.4 is up? sheeeeeit

 

[Talaysen]

Etched Sigil is amazing. Star Pact meteor every single second? Yes please!

 

[mercviper]

Man looking at these notes and I'm pretty excited. Thinking about a SWK monk with Riviera boots to build up stacks and quick dump everything into LTKs. Also pet monk sounds hella fun with SC procs everywhere.

 

[IceMarker]

Man, Plague of Thorns isn't dropping on PTR right now, but once it does... thorns is gonna be nuts.

 

[Nokterian]

Wizard for me. I can finally death ray things in a viable gear set. Hooray.

So many awesome changes in this patch.



Holy hell these are the three best changes in the patch notes.

Yes yes those changes make me happy because fuck those wraiths and what not at the moment in 2.3

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

After a year of having this game unplayed, sitting in a box I just started it. (PS4)

What should I be doing in the first few hours?
I picked a Crusader and the second to lowest difficulty and I am just doing these story missions. Game seems pretty easy (about to hit level 20) so far but I expect that to change. Just wondering what details I should be sweating this early in the game.

 

[Raticus79]

LMAO Pet Monk is legit!

ROFL DatModz blasting GR70 with crappy gear. He's using Static Charge Monk with Inna set and having the pets proc Static Charge on top of the Pets doing more damage than him anyway!

Hmm, the patch note says it's just the monk that should trigger static charge... maybe they'll change it to no longer work with pets.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

My D3 first world problem: I got such a good legendary weapon last week that it makes all other legendary weapon drops useless. And for some reason most of the legendaries that drop for me are weapons. Pls gib helmet or shoulders or set pieces.

 

[dog$]

Every new patch that hits, I keep saying to myself "maybe now I'll finally have a build to justify using Wand of Woh". I'm hoping that this time it's finally true.

After a year of having this game unplayed, sitting in a box I just started it. (PS4)
Just wondering what details I should be sweating this early in the game.

There's nothing to worry about* until you play Adventure Mode with a Level 70 character. Until you get there, just follow along and enjoy the ride. Adjust the difficulty as often as you want in order to keep it engaging.

*Do not play in Public Games. Ever. Everyone has hacked gear and your experience with the game will likely be ruined in entirety after spending <30 seconds with them in session.

 

[Dahbomb]

2 pc Shadow with 4 pc Marauder is hilarious. The 2 pc Shadow set might be swapped with the 4 pc.

 

[davepoobond]

seems like good changes all around. i sort of don't understand the set dungeons, though. do they let you swap around the set they give you so you can try the different ones?

 

[taybul]

seems like good changes all around. i sort of don't understand the set dungeons, though. do they let you swap around the set they give you so you can try the different ones?

It's just a way to have you "master" your set, meaning testing you on its abilities. There are some cosmetic perks you get for completing a bunch of them.

 

[davepoobond]

It's just a way to have you "master" your set, meaning testing you on its abilities. There are some cosmetic perks you get for completing a bunch of them.

i see. i guess that makes it more motivation to switch around and build more sets instead of keeping a static one.

 

[Ashodin]

Alright I gotta test this new melee DH out, going to in a bit.

 

[Dahbomb]

Crusaders first to break GR90 on 2.4!

Using Legacy of Nightmare Captain America build.


Alkaizer beat GR85 with Raekor Barb but a LoN HOTA Fire Barb is right below him.

Demon Hunter at GR82 with S2 + M4 Hybrid Chakram build with a Fire based LoN Multishot build and CA build not too far off.

Datmodz beat GR85 with Monk using Fire WoL LoN build and there are a few Static Charge Monks right below him.

WDs also have gotten to GR90 with a Pet Dart LoN build.

Wizard at GR85 with a Channeling Arcane Torrent LoN build using Meteors as the spender.


LoN has really exposed how weak the selection of Gloves/Chest/Shoulders/Pants are in the game. People are using crap like Swamp pants, Pouldrons, St.Archews and the new Aquila because there aren't any better options in those slots. And people are STILL using Fire element as the default for their builds.

 

[rukland]

I don't get fire being the goto element. Is it solely due to how the game is itemized or is it people being lazy?