Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase.
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Evilms
Banned
Nothing interesting, always in his delirium to throw a few spades against the PS5, he rages as usual.
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I think this was amazing:https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...laystation-5-xbox-series-x-spec-leak-analysed
This was 2019! They called it
Dee Dah Dave
Member
You would spot it if you started analysing things frame by frame, but not in motion when you are playing. That's the idea. But it depends on the game and how aggressive the utilisation is.
There are different ways of using it. For example the simplest idea is a foveated pass where the centre of the screen (where your eyes are usually fixed) is untouched, and the outsides are sampled lower. Then there are also more advanced implementations where it's used in darker areas, or it's used in areas with fast moving objects and motion blur. Or you can do combinations.
Its absolutely a good thing as it frees up performance which can then be used elsewhere. So overall the final image looks better to the player, not worse.
Nickolaidas
Banned
So DF basically checked out for ways to see what the PS5 can't do compared to the Series X. I respect that. That's what comparisons are for.
What I want to know is, when they start testing X Series X (console) exclusives, will they make comments like, 'Halo loads fast, but not as fast as it would load on the PS5'?
What I want to know is, when they start testing X Series X (console) exclusives, will they make comments like, 'Halo loads fast, but not as fast as it would load on the PS5'?
Nickolaidas
Banned
Did you miss the part when Epic said they had to customize their Engine to the PS5 in order to take advantage of its SSD? As in, 'to do what X Series X can do, and THEN some?'
SidViscous
Member
Let's be honest here, Xbox is the better hardware but Sony have the better games. I expect most digital foundry comparisons to show the Xbox is constantly pushing higher pixel counts or framerates.
Better spacial audio, load times and rumble support isn't really the sort of stuff DF is going to care too much about as they can't show line graphs for it.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
Honestly, that picture (and the whole sequence in that trailer) is the greatest thing I have ever seen in computer generated real time graphics, and I have been gaming since 1981.
I wouldn't have believed if someone told me in the 80ies, that we will reach that graphical fidelity in my lifetime.
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Nickolaidas
Banned
It will be an interesting comparison to say the least.
I expect X Series X console exclusives to look quite worse that PS5 console exclusives.
I expect X Series X console exclusives to have a MUCH higher framerate than PS5 console exclusives.
I expect X Series X / PS5 multiplats to look a little sharper and play a little faster on the X Series X.
I expect X Series X / PS5 multiplats to load faster on the PS5.
Exactly, it degrades the image in places in favour of freed performance. Did the games perform at a low framerate? Did they spot VRS? If the answer to these is both NO then who cares if they spotted this image degrading feature or not?
It would have been like looking at X1X games for checkerboarding near release. Not seeing any then trying to make that seem like a bad thing. Later games with checkerboard rendering on X1X did release nonetheless because they needed the increased performance on some games.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's gorgeous, would've loved if we could download the uncompressed trailer from Sony to check it out. Youtube does heavy compression and the minor movement adds small artifacts that could blurry the overall image unlike when you play it in your console.
Let's expect more! Those are mostly pre-alpha builds, the more we get into we're going to see even more. Can't wait for the next God of War.
prinz_valium
Member
LOL DF never said that.
They were "Sony shills" during last gen launch.
But it's always funny how the perception of people changes like a flag in the wind.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Alex is 100% shill (but more PC), Richard prefers xbox but 99% neutral and professional, John seems to be 100% neutral.
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cormack12
Gold Member
Pretty much, I think that's why we're seeing a lot of distinctive art styles coming from both platofrms at the moment rather than chasing all the ultra realistic graphics.
That makes no sense. Why would they analyse God of War and then say 'It still falls behind the native 4K with full RT that XsX could offer', or 'Halo Infinite's transitions take roughly 3 seconds whereas the PS5 might be able to do them in 1 second'. It's pure conjecture, they don't have anything to reference except guesses. I would say we want less guesses and more like-for-like comparisons.
tryDEATH
Member
People are trying to ignore VRS and downplay it, but it will play a very big role for next gen. With performance increases of 15% +/- it becomes an essential tool for developers. Gears Tactics utilizes a older and much more rudimentary version of VRS and it showed very good performance gains albeit at the cost of image quality, but that is expect with the older version of VRS.
With the new version the image quality will see much less of a drop in image quality with potentially even greater performance gains, which when added with the raw power advantage of the Series X the overall performance gap will only widen even further allowing the system to be pushed even harder.
With the new version the image quality will see much less of a drop in image quality with potentially even greater performance gains, which when added with the raw power advantage of the Series X the overall performance gap will only widen even further allowing the system to be pushed even harder.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
They care because it's their job to care, and to find out what exactly the hardware differences are. In the case of VRS, if the PS5 doesn't have it, then effectively the GPU performance difference between the two consoles just got bigger. Which is why they want to know as it would be quite a meaningful difference.
Tenka Musou
Banned
Didn't Matt from Resetera say the PS5 had VRS or am I misremembering?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
"From what I understand speaking to a few developers, one of the big complaints about the PS4 and Pro is that developers didn't have as much control over the GPU as they wanted to, and this is one of the reasons why the PS4 Pro was kinda noisy, I've heard. that a number of developers didn't have as much of a fine grain control over culling and the entire control of the pipeline is perhaps what they would have wanted, this is why the GE is in place"
But they never showed it doesn't have it, they didn't see it in the games shown. Now if a game performed badly and didn't have it then this would be questionable. Did any game perform badly without this VRS cutback? Yes or no?
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chilichote
Member
"Digital Foundry claims PS5 doesn't exhibit any evidence of VRS(Variable Rate Shading) from PS5 showcase."
And i think that's a good thing!^^
And i think that's a good thing!^^
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why is er discussion about VRS amongst Sony fans if you think its blurring the image? Move on I would say. I think the more options devs have to increase more variety in textures and higher frame rates is always preferred or more space in your memory budget is always welcome .
Bo_Hazem
Banned
VRS will be used in unoptimized engines for PS5 that still use ancient LOD's system. Plus it's important for PSVR2 as it'll most likely be 4K@120Hz for each eye (240Hz total).
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I don't see AMD boasting about it in all their marketing like its the holy grail
And yes you completely misinterpreted my tone. I don't even know how you actually managed to read it that way
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I think those manufacturers don't know what they are doing with features like mesh shading and VRS! It's not like you can make millions with designing and producing these cards. /sarcasm
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I'm really struggling to understand how you retards are misinterpreting what i'm saying that badly
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Of course VRS is a bad thing now that PS5 potentially doesn't have it. Kind of like how before the PS5 reveal, the expectation was 15TF and 32GB of RAM but then suddenly 10TF variable and 16GB of RAM was fine 
It was not directly meant for you . I just quoted you because you where discussing it. But nice to see you call me a retard, have a nice day yourself.
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
ah, i see that DF are back to their usual shenanigans! any chance to shit on the Playstation and make the Xbox look better.
Handy Fake
Member
Do you need VRS with faster asset loading..?
Genuinely curious.
Genuinely curious.
Andodalf
Banned
Have you watched or read any of their content about the event?
What? They have noting to do with one another in any way. VRS is about shaders, thus The name.
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chilichote
Member
It's an RDNA2 feature, so Sony has it.Of course VRS is a bad thing now that PS5 potentially doesn't have it. Kind of like how before the PS5 reveal, the expectation was 15TF and 32GB of RAM but then suddenly 10TF variable and 16GB of RAM was fine
However, I am curious: if the next Microsoft event shows that the games shown indicate that VRS is being used, do you find that more positive or negative? Because that means that in order to get the shown performance, you have to trick ...
Making games is all tricks ... and who cares? It's about the final output.It's an RDNA2 feature, so Sony has it.
However, I am curious: if the next Microsoft event shows that the games shown indicate that VRS is being used, do you find that more positive or negative? Because that means that in order to get the shown performance, you have to trick ...
chilichote
Member
VRS is detrimental to the image quality.
squidilix
Member
Andodalf
Banned
It's an RDNA2 feature, so Sony has it.
However, I am curious: if the next Microsoft event shows that the games shown indicate that VRS is being used, do you find that more positive or negative? Because that means that in order to get the shown performance, you have to trick ...
If they utilize VRS in ways that are only apparent in stills, and as a result show games that look demonstrably better than what we've seen so far, it's fantastic. If they show hellblade looking as good as the trailer, with VRS evident in motion blur and the edge of the screen, it's awesome.
So is scaling , checkerboarding, temporal injection etc. Best is brute force compute.
but test showed it was very hard in some cases to tell VRS appart from 4K.
So it depends of use and settings .
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I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
I don't give it a shit DF, hear it DF. 
chilichote
Member
NVM
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chilichote
Member
That's right, but reconstruction, etc. is now so good nowadays that you can hardly make it out. VRS is obviously easy to make out, which I personally think is bad, but some here are even happy about it^^
alabtrosMyster
Member
Nope, there is RT in some of the PS5 demos, so it's not next-gen.
VRS is next gen, it's exclusive.
Xplainin
Banned
No it wasnt running at 24fps.
Have a think about what formats play back at 24fps and then try and work out what Hellblade was played back on.
Handy Fake
Member
Why, that's why I'm asking old chap. Curious.
thelastword
Banned
No matter how many times you post it Bo, it will be ignored, because many here know more than Matt. RDNA 2 VRS is going to change the game, not the VRS with advanced customizations on PS5 though, the normal one you get from the AMD's GPU hardware and software stack.
What's crazier is that so many are now latching unto VRS, but pretty much all modern GPU's landing in 2020 will have VRS supported, it's like your 2020 AF. Everything from the Intel Xe's, to the Ampere GPU's to the RDNA 2 GPU's....Current NV GPU's even support VRS already, it's not proprietary at all. People should be clued in already based on all the custom work on the SSD, that Sony never goes for the standard, they put in their own spin and improvements to the standard VRS that comes with RDNA 2.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
It's an RDNA2 feature, so Sony has it.
However, I am curious: if the next Microsoft event shows that the games shown indicate that VRS is being used, do you find that more positive or negative? Because that means that in order to get the shown performance, you have to trick ...
Fucking what? Game development is all about tricks
AphexTwunt
Member
The DF narrative is hilarious.
Sodium fuelled persecution complexes as far as the eye can see....
It's beautiful, looking forward to the next few years.
Sodium fuelled persecution complexes as far as the eye can see....
It's beautiful, looking forward to the next few years.
It's not a bad thing but it's a bloody compromise like checkerboarding. Would we be saying why doesn't it have checkerboarding in our games? VRS is like checkerboard rendering it reduces image quality/resolution but on parts of the screen. It's a good technique but why are we trying to push the narrative that because the games didn't use it it must not have hardware support?Of course VRS is a bad thing now that PS5 potentially doesn't have it. Kind of like how before the PS5 reveal, the expectation was 15TF and 32GB of RAM but then suddenly 10TF variable and 16GB of RAM was fine
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Aceofspades
Banned
Audio and SSD are part of Hardware, so saying that Xbox has better hardware is simply wrong. Xbox has some advantages while PS5 has others, simple as that.
The scenario is somewhat similar to N64 vs PS1 (not to that extreme though) of N64 having better GPU but lost (Ff7 , Metal Gear, RE...etc) due to its limitations in cartridge space, 32MB vs 700MB
pyrocro
Member
right right, we want full shading in shadows with MAX shading precision to get the color hmmm black. Let be less efficient which means we are more efficient.
VRS is closer to the end of the rendering pipeline on a screen space level(and some primitive shading for tier 2).
for example, regions of the screen behind Hud elements, textures in shadow, or regions behind motion blur can get reduced/faster versions of shaders executed against them
In other words, the developer has greater control of where they want the GPU to spend is pixel shading power.
its a win
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
At 15% it would be great, yeah. But the reality is, if you don't want your game to be visibly blurry, you're getting around 5% more performance. Not terrible by any means, but also not groundbreaking.