Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

​

One of the most contentious releases this year, there's no doubting the quality of Metal Gear Solid Delta's remastering efforts - but what about performance? Alex takes a look at the PC version, finding an inherently compromised effort, and yet still the best place to play the game.


00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:00 The things it does right
00:02:33 Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
00:06:55 What GPU do you need and how can it run better?
00:11:27 How mods ease the pain
00:13:54 Conclusion
Chapters

 

[adamsapple]

Not gonna summarize all the PC jargon so just posting a few key points.

- No UE5 traversal stutter in the areas DF tested on Alex's standard rig
- The game is max capped to 60fps on the PC right now
- The game is extremely GPU heavy
- The game was 'just not designed' for 60fps on lower end GPU's at modest/high resolutions
- They touch upon some mods that let the game use hardware Lumen, UW support etc
- But they don't recommend using FPS unlocking mods for now as they can soft-lock the game


* We still don't know how the Xbox version compares to the PS5, DF have not done coverage on that, this video also only shows some PS5/Pro metrics.

 

[The Cockatrice]

- The game is max capped to 60fps on the PC right now

 

[nemiroff]

- The game is max capped to 60fps on the PC right now

What in the fucking fuck is this...

/Refreshes page hoping it's a typo
/Checks calendar
/Pinches arm
/Stares into the void
/Reboots brain

 

[Killer8]

"Now some of these mods, specifically those about performance, are probably snake oil"

It's a heavy game to run, but it also doesn't have the usual UE5 stuttering bullshit. I bet the 60fps lock issues will be sorted quickly. The game looks fantastic with the hardware lumen and ultrawide mods.

I call all that an overall win and will be double dipping on PC when it comes down in price.

 

[Gaiff]

Features, or lack thereof
- Shader compilation seems to work as there are no traversal or shader compilation stutters, at least, not in the first area
- Very limited settings menu with only GI and Shadows providing a substantial performance difference
- 60fps cap, no ultrawide support
- A higher refresh rate monitor set to 120Hz for instance will have improper frame pacing
- Some cutscenes are even capped at 40fps, bizarrely

Performance
- The game is extremely GPU-intensive with a 3600+4060 unable to lock to 60fps even with reduced settings and 1080p DLSS Quality (720p internal resolution)
- It is also extremely CPU-intensive, with the Ryzen 3600 falling to the 40fps range even when paired with a 5080 during busy scenes with lots of enemies running around
- This is especially prevalent when dense foliage is close to the camera
- A GPU+CPU a cut above the 3600 or RTX 4060 such as the RTX 4070 or perhaps even the 4060 Ti can give you a lock 60 most of the time except for when alpha effects get close to the camera, this can dip the fps into the 50s

Optimization
- Setting Lumen from Ultra to High improves performance by 20%
- Lumen Ultra to Medium, 27%, but the lighting is further degraded.
- Lumen Ultra to medium 41%, but Lumen is turned off and it looks horrible
- Shadows from Ultra to High make them a bit more aliased, but it is not very noticeable and performance improves by 17%
- Shadows from Ultra to Medium barely improves performance
- Shadows to Low turn them off and increases the performance by 33% from Ultra
- DLSS Quality improves the performance by another 29% from DLAA
- Recommends High GI+High Shadows+1080p DLSS Q on an RTX 4060+Ryzen 3600. This improves performance by 37% from Ultra
- It's a fine VRR experience on a low-end PC, but you won't get a 60fps lock
- 4070+High-end CPU at 1440p+DLSS Balanced mostly locks to 60 barring a few edge cases and even gives you enough headroom for DLSS Quality or DLSS4
- DLSS4 looks noticeably nicer

Mods
- There is an Hardware Lumen and Ray Reconstruction mod for NVIDIA GPUs
- Indirect shadows as are reflections
- Ray reconstruction reduces artifacts and ghosting and provides cleaner reflections
- However, there is a big performance impact. Using Hardware Lumen drops performance by 8% on a 5090 at 4K DLAA going from 72fps to 66fps
- Adding Ray Reconstruction further reduces performance by 32% from 66fps to 45fps
- Adding materials roughness further degrades performance by 4%
- In total, with Hardware Lumen+Ray Reconstruction+Materials, performance goes from 72fps to 43fps on a 5090 at 4K DLAA, a 40% drop
- There is also a mod for ultrawide support that works really well. Menus are in order, HUDs are fine, and even cutscenes are fine. Only pre-rendered cutscenes remain at 16:9
- Does not recommend using the fps unlock mod with the ultrawide support mod as there can be bugs that can soft lock the game

Overall
- Not a good port with missing features
- CPU and GPU heavy
- Need a powerful system to run it
- If you do have the hardware, it's the best place to play the game

 

[killatopak]

Even 5090 is not enough. UE5 is so heavy.

 

[clarky]

Even 5090 is not enough. UE5 is so heavy.

A 5090 is more than enough to lock this at 60.

 

[killatopak]

A 5090 is more than enough to lock this at 60.

- Adding Ray Reconstruction further reduces performance by 32% from 66fps to 45fps

 

[Zuzu]

I disagree with him about dropping PSSR on PS5 Pro. Just put a toggle in that allows players to choose between PSSR and FSR (with a higher internal resolution). Whenever an option has been put into a game between PSSR, FSR or TSR I've always found PSSR to have less artifacting in motion than the other two.

For example, PSSR produces significantly less artifacting in Star Wars Outlaws and it's superior to TSR in AC Shadows. I wouldn't want to lose the option.

 

[Gaiff]

Even 5090 is not enough. UE5 is so heavy.

It is. Ray reconstruction and hardware Lumen are mods.

 

[killatopak]

It is. Ray reconstruction and hardware Lumen are mods.

Yeah, but they're UE5 exclusive features. It's just an ini edit. Like literally.

 

[viveks86]

It is. Ray reconstruction and hardware Lumen are mods.

But why? I still don't understand why hardware lumen gets the shaft most times

 

[willothedog]

Yeah, but they're UE5 exclusive features. It's just an ini edit. Like literally.

it's like literally not.

 

[00_Zer0]

Caveman's summary:

+PC Master Race no much fault
+No stutter PC big smooth
-fps whore cry lock at 60
-no support ultrawide shit bed
+mods help

 

[killatopak]

it's like literally not.

Here you go. All the mods mentioned here are just ini edits and copying a dll file. Like literally changing values from 0 to 1. The real mods here are the fps unlocker and ultrawide support.

 

[kevboard]

oh no... I wonder what makes the game so CPU heavy

I just can't figure it out

what, oh what, could it be?

 

[willothedog]

Here you go. All the mods mentioned here are just ini edits and copying a dll file. Like literally changing values from 0 to 1. The real mods here are the fps unlocker and ultrawide support.

'literal' ini edit, don't have download other files at all, so not literally an ini edit as you first stated then it's it.

 

[kevboard]

'literal' ini edit, don't have download other files at all...

yes they do, with the modified .ini files. I downloaded such an ini mod for Silent Hill 2, because it's quicker than to look up all the changes and manually add them to the engine.ini

the only downloads associated with these mods are missing nvidia files for DLSS etc.
but that's not a mod, that's just placing files for the engine to find once the .ini edits are done

 

[killatopak]

'literal' ini edit, don't have download other files at all, so not a literally an ini edit as you first stated then it's it.

If you use an RTX GPU and don't have these files, I dunno what to tell you. They're specifically for DLSS Framegen.

Enabling Lumen and Rays alone doesn't need that file.

 

[clarky]

- Adding Ray Reconstruction further reduces performance by 32% from 66fps to 45fps

Show me where I can can do that in the game please.

 

[nemiroff]

Guys, you're arguing two different things. Both arguments are correct (a 5090 is enough, barely, as the game is released. But by modding the ini file it's not)

It's not a big deal, nobody cares

In the end, what's important to note here, is that the optimization done at this stage is utterly embarrassing.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

It's a heavy game to run, but it also doesn't have the usual UE5 stuttering bullshit. I bet the 60fps lock issues will be sorted quickly.

The 60 fps limit is most likely because of how the original game was made. I think you'd be better off using FG than trying to uncap it.

 

[crazyriddler]

I'm playing it with a 4080 on high settings, with the HW Lumen mod and 4k DLSS performance, and it never drops below 60. Zero stuttering.

 

[Bojji]

I think game is in decent state, it's just extremely GPU heavy but with right hardware you can lock 60fps easily with no stutters!

Consoles on the other hand...

 

[Mr Moose]

So you need a $300 CPU and a $1000 GPU? That's a no from me.

 

[Gaiff]

So you need a $300 CPU and a $1000 GPU? That's a no from me.

In what universe is a 4070-class GPU $1000? A 5060 Ti/9060 XT+decent budget CPU will get you by.

The 3600 is not only ancient but was never that good to begin with.

 

[Mr Moose]

In what universe is a 4070-class GPU $1000? A 5060 Ti/9060 XT+decent budget CPU will get you by.

The 3600 is not only ancient but was never that good to begin with.

I have a 3600 lol.
It still has drops on a 4070 while it's using DLSS at only 60fps, that's not good imo, not when it looks the way it does.
I was watching the video and it showed a 5080, that's why I said about the $1000 card.

 

[Thief1987]

It looks like a mid PS4 game, it's good that it only need $5k gpu to run at 60 fps and not to drop to 1080p or lower

 

[Soodanim]

Gaming is in a bit of a crysis when it comes to performance these days

 

[Bojji]

It looks like a mid PS4 game, it's good that it only need $5k gpu to run at 60 fps and not to drop to 1080p or lower

You are blind.

 

[Stuart360]

You are blind.

It isnt a great looking game to be fair, especially taking into account how small the areas are.

They could of done a lot better, although its probably a good job they didnt with how demanding this version already is.

 

[Gitaroo]

I use ultra + mod manager, its a all in 1 mod solution that lets you enable RR, HW lumen, FOV, unlock frame rate, enable frame gen and push the visual setting above epic.

 

[Scrawnton]

I really don't like this generation's trend of the image on screen just flat out not justifying the hardware power needed. This entire generation of console / pc gaming has been an absolute scam with very few exceptions.

 

[adamsapple]

It looks like a mid PS4 game

I wanna see the kind of mid PS4 games you've been playing, and also your weed dealers contact info.

 

[Thief1987]

You are blind.

Well, yeah my vision is certainly impaired as I'm poor and can't afford these special pcmr glasses, so you should be more lenient with me

 

[Gaiff]

It looks like a mid PS4 game, it's good that it only need $5k gpu to run at 60 fps and not to drop to 1080p or lower

It's a good-looking game, don't be foolish.

It's still far too heavy for what's on offer though.

 

[willothedog]

If you use an RTX GPU and don't have these files, I dunno what to tell you. They're specifically for DLSS Framegen.

Enabling Lumen and Rays alone doesn't need that file.

Interesting, so Nvidia have stopped using nvngx_dlssd dll for ray reconstruction?

 

[TintoConCasera]

I'd rather just play it on my PS2.

 

[killatopak]

Show me where I can can do that in the game please.

Don't take my word for it. It's DF that said it.

Interesting, so Nvidia have stopped using nvngx_dlssd dll for ray reconstruction?

I must have mixed it up with nvngx_dlssg which is specifically for frame gen.

In any case, those files are literally sitting in your nvidia app file location. No need to download anything unless you haven't updated your gpu drivers.

 

[Senua]

It looks like a mid PS4 game

You posted in the wrong thread, here

Thread 'Ghost of Yōtei - Firearms Gameplay | PS5 Games'

Thursday at 4:44 PM

• FalsettoVibe
• Replies: 126
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 
• 
• 

 

[Thief1987]

It's a good-looking game, don't be foolish.

Who said that PS4 games looks bad?

 

[clarky]

Don't take my word for it. It's DF that said it.

I must have mixed it up with nvngx_dlssg which is specifically for frame gen.

In any case, those files are literally sitting in your nvidia app file location. No need to download anything unless you haven't updated your gpu drivers.

I am taking your word for it, you said a 5090 wasn't enough, I said it was. Then went on to try and prove your point by showing options that are not in the game.

 

[Killer8]

It looks like a mid PS4 game

METAL GEAR SOLID DELTA - 4K Ultra DLAA

 

[killatopak]

I am taking your word for it, you said a 5090 wasn't enough, I said it was. Then went on to try and prove your point by showing options that are not in the game.

Did I even say Metal Gear Alone? I said Unreal Engine was heavy. The features these mods add are UE specific. It'd be one thing if I said a 5090 wasn't enough for ALL games. There's a reason I specifically said UE. It fucking sucks.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

MGSD is more demanding than a typical UE5 game, but it's still much less demanding than for example Black Myth: Wukong with PT. Also, let's not forget that the MGSD doesn't have any stuttering issues, which is a significant achievement for this engine.

My RTX 4080 Super allows me to play MGSD at solid 60 fps with just DLSSPerformance at 4K. I would need to use FGx2 on top of that in Black Myth Wukong in order to get over 60fps. With DLSS balance the game also run very well, I get 60 fps literally 99.9% of the time, and only shooting fuel barrels can cause the framerate to dip below the 60 fps cap. Furthermore, even DLSSQ doesn't change the experience that much because the fluctuation between 50 and 60 fps isn't making a noticeable difference on my VRR monitor. It boggles my mind that people use VRR screens and still want perfectly locked 60 fps, even in slow-paced games that should be played with a gamepad.

4K DLSS-Quality, Ultra GI, Ultra Textures, Shadows set to high.

I also tried locking the framerate to 40 fps with RTSS (using the Reflex Limiter), and I must say that I wouldn't mind playing like that if my PC couldn't deliver more fps. Game is responsive and look smooth during camera panning with at least 40fps. There's however a huge difference at 30 fps because even slow camera panning show jumps between frames, so framerate no longer look smooth. Unless you really have no choice, I wouldn't recommend playing MGSD at 30 fps. A satisfactory experience in this game is provided only by 40 fps and above.

 

[clarky]

Did I even say Metal Gear Alone? I said Unreal Engine was heavy. The features these mods add are UE specific. It'd be one thing if I said a 5090 wasn't enough for ALL games. There's a reason I specifically said UE. It fucking sucks.

Thats not what you said but what ever.

 

[Bojji]

Well, yeah my vision is certainly impaired as I'm poor and can't afford these special pcmr glasses, so you should be more lenient with me

It objectivly looks like current gen game. Quality of objects, materials, textures, lighting, shadows, reflections is all current gen level. To see PS4 game look at GoY trailer provided by Senua

So hardware lumen is great. I still have 60fps locked like before enabling it!

I'm not interested in RR in this game so I don't bother enabling it (there are not enough reflections to justify it). I also added reflex missing from game menu. You have to modify game .ini file to fix developers mistakes...

[SystemSettings]
r.Lumen.HardwareRayTracing=1
r.Lumen.Reflections.HardwareRayTracing=1
r.Lumen.ScreenProbeGather.HardwareRayTracing=1
r.LumenScene.DirectLighting.HardwareRayTracing=1
r.Lumen.Reflections.MaxRoughnessToTrace=0.6
r.Lumen.Reflections.MaxRoughnessToTraceForFoliage=0.6
t.Streamline.Reflex.Enable=1
t.Streamline.Reflex.Mode=1

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

It objectivly looks like current gen game. Quality of objects, materials, textures, lighting, shadows, reflections is all current gen level. To see PS4 game look at GoY trailer provided by Senua

So hardware lumen is great. I still have 60fps locked like before enabling it!

I'm not interested in RR in this game so I don't bother enabling it (there are not enough reflections to justify it). I also added reflex missing from game menu. You have to modify game .ini file to fix developers mistakes...

Ray reconstruction doesn't work well unless you use it at the native resolution. It can improve the appearance of RT effects, but it also makes the image look like a painting due to filtering.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

I have been playing for some hours, my best recommendation is either wait or not use the frame rate unlocker because it causes tons of issues with things in the game attached to frame rate including character interactions