Bojji
Member
Hogwarts Legacy looks absolutely weird with it.
Digital Foundry: Metal Gear Solid Delta PC - The Best Way To Play - DF Tech Review + Optimised Settings
- Thread starter adamsapple
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Hogwarts Legacy looks absolutely weird with it.
Is this a joke?
So your 4080 super allows you to play 60 fps at 1080p. Got it. Nice performance indeed, you don't even need to drop to 720p.
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Bojji
Member
I'm glad you have first hand experience.
4K with DLSS from 1080p =/= 1080p native.
1080p:
4K DLSS Performance:
And this was DLSS3, DLSS4 is heavier than that.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It stutters only in the first few seconds and this was pre-release. This seems to be more of a one-off system issue than a problem with the game. Otherwise, it was fine.
Bojji
Member
It could be some program running in the background. Youtubers usually have a lot of shit turned on.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
1080p is 1080p it doesn't matter what kind of mental gymnastics you are performI'm glad you have first hand experience.
4K with DLSS from 1080p =/= 1080p native.
1080p:
4K DLSS Performance:
And this was DLSS3, DLSS4 is heavier than that.
kevboard
Member
it's not.
first of all, if you run a game with DLSS, some effects and all the post processing will be done at the target resolution.
secondly using DLSS has a cost, so it's not only the image quality that's different, but it also will run worse due to the GPU time cost it takes to reconstruct the image.
and that's before we factor in the native res post processing.
so no. 1080p =/= 4K DLSS Performance mode.
different post processing quality, some changes to some effects (depends on the game), additional GPU time used to reconstruct.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
You think the cost of upscaling is free? 4K DLSS Performance is almost as demanding as 1440p native. Furthermore, some effects still operate at the output resolution.
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
DLSSP at 4K doesn't mean I'm playing at 1080p. DLSS lowers the internal resolution to 1080p in order to improve performance, but it also reconstructs it in the second step based on data from previous frames making it look like 4K on the static image, and slightly less sharp during motion. DLSSP at 4K also renders certain buffers at native 4K and it's far more demading than 1080p.
My RTX 4080 Super allows me to play MGSD Delta at 1440p native (in fact DLAA is even more demanding than TAA native) with 60 FPS and high settings, so I don't need to use 1080p. Now please tells us at what settings you are playing MGSD? I'm curious. Please share your screenshots.
1440p DLAA Ultra Settings. I could play with these settings if I wanted to, but 4K DLSS ultra quality (77% res scale) gives me a much sharper image on my 4K monitor, and I don't mind the 50–60 fps thanks to VRR.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, this checks out with Techpowerup who ran the game at Ultra.
53.5fps minimum. According to Alex, dropping both GI and Shadows to High from Ultra yield around 37% more performance on a 4060. We're looking at 25-37% better performance, which would presumably boost the minimums on a 4080 to 67-75fps.
Heavy on the GPU? Yeah, especially for a game of that scale with this few enemies without hardware Lumen. We're way above the 720p this guy was talking about though.
Techpowerup also states:
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
If I shoot the fuel barrels framerate might drop a little bit (It not always does), but it's generally difficult to trigger sub 60fps dips at 1440p DLAA. My GPU often drops clocks below 2910MHz and has a room for potential problems, but there are less optimized locations and if fuel barrel is there potential explosion can trigger sub 60fps dips.Yeah, this checks out with Techpowerup who ran the game at Ultra.
53.5fps minimum. According to Alex, dropping both GI and Shadows to High from Ultra yield around 37% more performance on a 4060. We're looking at 25-37% better performance, which would presumably boost the minimums on a 4080 to 67-75fps.
Heavy on the GPU? Yeah, especially for a game of that scale with this few enemies without hardware Lumen. We're way above the 720p this guy was talking about though.
Techpowerup also states:
1440p DLAA Ultra settings before shooting the barrel.
Explosion
Such dips could be smoothed out greatly if the game supported native TAA instead of the more demanding DLAA. MGSD however doesnt support TAA, so I need to use DLAA. It's however easy to smooth out framerate during explosions by changing just shadows settings to high (GI and textures can be left at ultra).
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I don't understand why PSSR continue to have the same issues with the vegetation from the launch; I thought after AC Shadows was finally solved but it seems only the Ubisoft team was able to fix it where the others haven't the access to such solution. Why. Oh I forgot about Dying Light 2. This game also has introduced PSSR later and it's quite excellent here too.
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
I think YouTubers had early access to "MGS Delta", so they played the game before the latest patch and nvidia drivers. Some of them complained that there wasn't a shader precompilation screen in this game, however, the launch version has it. Also, YouTubers generally use many apps in the background that can cause problems like suttering. Even something simple as power monitoring software (for example msi afterburner / riva tuner) can cause stutters, especially on AMD CPUs.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Do you have an ultrawide monitor? If yes, this can cause problems with an unlocked frame rate.
Mr Moose
Member
The end result is what's important.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I've been doing some testing with an unlocked framerate.
4K DLAA high settings - 47fps
4K DLSS-Quality (77% res scale, DLSS Ultra Quality equivalent) high settings - 66fps. I'm surprised how often framerate can go up to 70-80fps even when I look at varied scenery. Explosions however can dip to 50fps.
4K DLSS-Q (77% res scale) + FGx2, high settings - 116fps
4K DLSS-Balance (67% res scale, DLSSQ equivalent) high settings - 74fps
4K DLSS-Performance, high settings - 97fps
4K DLSSP + FGx2, high settings - 158fps
1440p DLAA, Ultra settings - 67fps
1440p DLAA, High settings - 86fps (28% improvement compared to ultra settings)
1440p DLSSQ (77% res, DLSS ultra quality) + FGx2 - 181fps
With DLSS FG, the game is extremely smooth and responsive, but I can't rule out potential problems. Konami must have had a good reason for limiting the framerate.
4K DLAA high settings - 47fps
4K DLSS-Quality (77% res scale, DLSS Ultra Quality equivalent) high settings - 66fps. I'm surprised how often framerate can go up to 70-80fps even when I look at varied scenery. Explosions however can dip to 50fps.
4K DLSS-Q (77% res scale) + FGx2, high settings - 116fps
4K DLSS-Balance (67% res scale, DLSSQ equivalent) high settings - 74fps
4K DLSS-Performance, high settings - 97fps
4K DLSSP + FGx2, high settings - 158fps
1440p DLAA, Ultra settings - 67fps
1440p DLAA, High settings - 86fps (28% improvement compared to ultra settings)
1440p DLSSQ (77% res, DLSS ultra quality) + FGx2 - 181fps
With DLSS FG, the game is extremely smooth and responsive, but I can't rule out potential problems. Konami must have had a good reason for limiting the framerate.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
So it turns out that this
Is complete bullshit. Who would a thought an angry console warrior is upset because he can't use stutters as ammo? Now he has to pretend you need a 5090 to play at above "720p".
The end result is that you need to drop resolution to 1080p in a ps4 looking game with a loading screen every twenty meters on a 1000$ gpu, if you are satisfied with "results" like this then more power to you
Senua
Member
Bojji
Member
1000$ for 1080p stable resolution and locked 60fps?
Not a bad deal compared to 750$ PS5 Pro:
756p - 47FPS
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
So, it turns out the DLSS scaling is incorrect and that it's too high.
Quality is at 75% scaling instead of the usual 67%. Balanced is 67% instead of 58%, and Performance is 58% instead of 50%. When running DLSS P at 4K, the game isn't running internally at 1080p, but at 1252p.
Edit: Slight correction, only Quality and Balanced have an incorrect scaling. Performance is indeed 50%.
Quality is at 75% scaling instead of the usual 67%. Balanced is 67% instead of 58%, and Performance is 58% instead of 50%. When running DLSS P at 4K, the game isn't running internally at 1080p, but at 1252p.
Edit: Slight correction, only Quality and Balanced have an incorrect scaling. Performance is indeed 50%.
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kevboard
Member
So, it turns out the DLSS scaling is incorrect and that it's too high.
Quality is at 75% scaling instead of the usual 67%. Balanced is 67% and Performance is 58%. When running DLSS P at 4K, the game isn't running internally at 1080p, but at 1252p.
so they mislabeled the ultra quality mode as quality mode, mislabeled the quality mode as balanced, have no balanced mode at all, and the only correctly labeled one is the performance mode... but not at 4k where it's higher than normal? the fuck?
lol...
edit: no wait, Quality mode here would be 960p not 965p... so it's not even the correct scaling at 1440p, let alone the correct label of course
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Corporal.Hicks
Member
Let's add to that the PS5 is probably running on medium/high settings instead of Ultra. With DLAA at 1440p and high settings, my GPU achieves 86 fps in this demanding scene. With DLSS Q, it's consistently above 100 fps, and I'm confident that DLSS Q provides superior image quality regardless of the anti-aliasing (AA) method employed by the PS5/Pro. If MGSD supported FG officially and didn't have problems with HUD elements, the difference compared to consoles would be even more significant: 180–200 fps with much higher image quality.1000$ for 1080p stable resolution and locked 60fps?
Not a bad deal compared to 750$ PS5 Pro:
756p - 47FPS
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I don't know why you think that I care as I don't even have ps5 pro. Also I never said anything platform warring in this thread as I only talked about this garbage game and its performance. But you can't help yourself aren't you?1000$ for 1080p stable resolution and locked 60fps?
Not a bad deal compared to 750$ PS5 Pro:
756p - 47FPS
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I suspected there was something wrong with the DLSS scaling because the DLSS performance boost was much higher compared to DLSS balance than usual. Now I know why that was the case. Thanks!So, it turns out the DLSS scaling is incorrect and that it's too high.
Quality is at 75% scaling instead of the usual 67%. Balanced is 67% instead of 58%, and Performance is 58% instead of 50%. When running DLSS P at 4K, the game isn't running internally at 1080p, but at 1252p.
Edit: Slight correction, only Quality and Balanced have an incorrect scaling. Performance is indeed 50%.
Bojji
Member
Performance of this game isn't far from other UE5 games. At least in this case game also looks good (compared to Immortals of Aveum for example).
What did you expect? If you want version with low hardware requirements you can always play Legacy collection.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I don't care if you're a PlayStation fan or not. However, what you said about DLSSP, or 720p on my card was stupid. It seems you're upset and hurt by how well this game runs on my PC, and there must be a reason for that
If you're a thief, banks have plenty of money, and after one successful score, you should be able to build a high-end PC with an RTX 5090 and play MGS without needing to run at 720p as your current platform.
Mister Wolf
Member
The dead giveaway was saying 4K DLSS Performance is equivalent to playing at 1080p. Sour grapes.
Radical_3d
Member
And he starts the video saying that at least in a PC you can avoid the problems of the console version. This guy could not being hated if he wasn't throwing shade at consoles while sinking in the most ridiculous platform ever. But he loves to be a wanker.
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Jesus Christ that looks good.It objectivly looks like current gen game. Quality of objects, materials, textures, lighting, shadows, reflections is all current gen level. To see PS4 game look at GoY trailer provided bySenua
So hardware lumen is great. I still have 60fps locked like before enabling it!
I'm not interested in RR in this game so I don't bother enabling it (there are not enough reflections to justify it). I also added reflex missing from game menu. You have to modify game .ini file to fix developers mistakes...
Self_Destructive
Member
Not a joke, but the 50 series has a driver issue with the game causing the stuttering and sometimes textures don't load properly. It doesn't happen on the 40 series, and I most certainly did not have any stuttering whatsoever.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, not sure what crack some are smoking. It is a good-looking game and definitely current-gen.
Zathalus
Member
You can use a 9070 XT, drop two settings down to high from Ultra and get an almost locked native 1440p. So the reality is a $600 GPU for 1440p. Or if you are not anal about upscaling you can probably do 1440p with Quality upscaling on a $430 GPU.
winjer
Member
This is a major screw up from the devs.
What kind of incompetent idiots cap frame rate on a PC game.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I think MGS Delta is using the old engine in the background. Although it is possible to unlock the frame rate with simple INI tweaks, Alex from Digital Foundry said it can cause problems. I haven't experienced any problems so far, but I haven't played for a long period of time with the unlocked framerate.This is a major screw up from the devs.
What kind of incompetent idiots cap frame rate on a PC game.
balls of snow
Member
So it running with all that tech at max is it better looking than Avatar.
roosnam1980
Member
Corporal.Hicks
Member
So with optimised settings, even the 3060 Ti 8GB can deliver an average of 60 fps with dips to 50 fps. Personally, I wouldn't want to use DLSS Performance at 1440p, even though DLSS transformer model may offer a sharper image than the PS5. In my opinion, capping the framerate at 40 fps with RTSS (using Reflex mode on Nvidia GPUs) and running 1440p with DLSS balance (with a 67% resolution scale, equvialent to DLSSQ in most games) would be better, because the Lumen lighting would be more stable at higher internal resolution, while 40fps in this game on a gamepad still offers a good experience. I wouldn't mind playing like that if my PC couldn't run MGSD at higher frame rate.
Benchmarking also discussed the impact of Niagara particles on performance. That's probably why shooting at fuel barrels tanks performance so much. It's possible to turn this feature off, but mane effects are missing without it.
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killatopak
Member
I heard some game mechanics are still tied to framerate. It's not confirmed though.This is a major screw up from the devs.
What kind of incompetent idiots cap frame rate on a PC game.
Diego Brasil
Neo Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
PS4
- First party game.
- Not a "Mid PS4 game", well mid PS4 in terms of output at least. But it had the full Sony backing behind it.
- Doesn't look as good as MG Delta, if that was your point, not even counting the difference in scopes.
- Doesn't even have PSSR
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Diego Brasil
Neo Member
MGSD is more demanding than a typical UE5 game, but it's still much less demanding than for example Black Myth: Wukong with PT. Also, let's not forget that the MGSD doesn't have any stuttering issues, which is a significant achievement for this engine.
My RTX 4080 Super allows me to play MGSD at solid 60 fps with just DLSSPerformance at 4K. I would need to use FGx2 on top of that in Black Myth Wukong in order to get over 60fps. With DLSS balance the game also run very well, I get 60 fps literally 99.9% of the time, and only shooting fuel barrels can cause the framerate to dip below the 60 fps cap. Furthermore, even DLSSQ doesn't change the experience that much because the fluctuation between 50 and 60 fps isn't making a noticeable difference on my VRR monitor. It boggles my mind that people use VRR screens and still want perfectly locked 60 fps, even in slow-paced games that should be played with a gamepad.
4K DLSS-Quality, Ultra GI, Ultra Textures, Shadows set to high.
I also tried locking the framerate to 40 fps with RTSS (using the Reflex Limiter), and I must say that I wouldn't mind playing like that if my PC couldn't deliver more fps. Game is responsive and look smooth during camera panning with at least 40fps. There's however a huge difference at 30 fps because even slow camera panning show jumps between frames, so framerate no longer look smooth. Unless you really have no choice, I wouldn't recommend playing MGSD at 30 fps. A satisfactory experience in this game is provided only by 40 fps and above.
The game has beautiful parts, especially this beginning with lots of detail.
But I found some internal parts to be quite simple.
Corporal.Hicks
Member
I replayed The Order: 1886 recently, and it still looks amazing — often like a CGI film. However, it doesn't need to render vegetation like MGSD and doesn't have as detailed assets (even the ground surface in MGSD has details instead of flat texture, also you can see nanite details on the rocks etc.). If you want to compare the graphics of the MGSD with those of PS4 games, it would be better to use Uncharted 4 as an example, since it features a jungle environment like MGSD.PS4
My PS4Pro screenshots
PC
UNCHARTED 4 can look good, but only if you look at the scenery instead of looking at assets from up close.
MGS Delta on my PC running at 4K DLSS Ultra Quality. Even when you look at assets up close, the graphics in this game still look good. MGSD also has dynamic lighting, meaning that objects always cast indirect shadows and blend well into the scene rather than standing out, as they do in U4 on the PS4.
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It looks bad even with max settings in native 4k, with the "optimized" settings we will start to descend into ps3 territory I'm afraid
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darrylgorn
Member
But can you play it at 1080p, 60fps with max settings?