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[Darklor01]

If I were to attempt to hazard to guessa way to compare the value per dollar of PS4 vs. PC, and include PS+ in that equation, I would need to know the following:

1) The cost of the PS4 + $50*lifespan of PS4.
2) The value price of the average "free" game at the time they become free*the number of titles the avg person downloads of the "free" games*lifespan of PS4
3) The cost to build a competitively spec PC at the time of PS4 launch including:
a) Case
b) PSU
c) Motherboard
d) CPU
e) GPU
f) Hard Drive
g) Blu-ray drive
h) OS

subtract the value of those "free" games from the cost of the PS4+PS+(over lifespan of PS4)

Now, compare the prices of the PC vs. the adjusted cost of the PS4 vs. the cost to build the running PC(which should not be upgraded in any way during the lifespan of the PS4).

Consider whether the visual fidelity, and ability to run games at the levels achieved for the weaker platform are the same from launch to end of life span.

This would make the comparison adjusted, at least in my mind, fair. I do note that there is no way a PS4 can compete with high end PC rigs.

 

[travisbickle]

What is the logic behind putting a GTX 680 in these machines to emulate the PS4/One?

Are the engineers using tests to predict this, or is it the Carmack "double power in closed platform" logic?

 

[FeiRR]

Factoring in 5 years of PSN ($250) to your PS4 purchase, the system will cost $650 total.

You just forgot that PS+ gives you close to $2000 worth games every year, right? I guess with PS4 it won't be that much at first, let's just say $500 a year. Now, recalculate your estimations.

You can build a PC w/ GTX 760 for $700, including the $90 Windows license.

That is, if you live in the USA. I had to pay over $200 (eq.) for a GT 660 (not TI).

In any case, if you can afford it you should get both a PC and console, as they'll both have great exclusive games.

Money isn't the only factor people consider. There's time and others.

 

[Always-honest]

I'll just wait for the PS4 release. I'm sure they were optimising the shit out of it since they made that demo. They had time.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

What is the logic behind putting a GTX 680 in these machines to emulate the PS4/One?

Are the engineers using tests to predict this, or is it the Carmack "double power in closed platform" logic?

my guess is a bit of both

 

[not_so_special]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. PC GAF ideal of what constitutes Low, mid, Hi PC specs is completely fucked.

Just because Rocket cars exist doesn't make Ferrari low end cars.

my pc cost 1800 euros and for some pc gamers its a decent one..just decent..

 

[fatgamecat]

You just forgot that PS+ gives you close to $2000 worth games every year, right? I guess with PS4 it won't be that much at first, let's just say $500 a year. Now, recalculate your estimations.

PS+ does not "give you" games, it loans them to you as long as you have a subscription. $2000 a year? Sounds like an overinflated non-figure. PS+ is a nice perk but it doesn't help to exaggerate things or rudely order people around.

 

[KaiserBecks]

You just forgot that PS+ gives you close to $2000 worth games every year, right?

You are borrowing games that cost 10-30 Euro/Dollars on the marked and you have no way of deciding which games are going to be a part of the Plus collection. $2000 worth of games. Next thing you'll tell us is that you're throwing in a knife block as well.

 

[phosphor112]

Dear God, this is just... painful.

You made a claim. It was bullshit. It still is bullshit. You got called out. You couldn't deliver.

Get over it.

 

[Durante]

You made a claim. It was bullshit. It still is bullshit. You got called out. You couldn't deliver.

Get over it.

No, he was accused of making a claim he never made. And true to form, half of the console faction reverts to grade-school-level "us versus them" mentality as soon as their favorite corporations are threatened, even if it is only in their imagination.

 

[phosphor112]

No, he was accused of making a claim he never made. And true to form, half of the console faction reverts to grade-school-level "us versus them" mentality as soon as their favorite corporations are threatened, even if it is only in their imagination.

You're right. I had to go back and check.

OldAsUrSock made that claim, not Alexandros.

SORRY!

EDIT: Isn't it always "us vs them"?

PC, consoles.. whatever. There is hardly a case where that isn't true.

 

[JonathanPower]

Oh, I see someone beat me to the punch:



This may very well be the first time in gaming history where a mid-range gaming PC outperforms both next-gen consoles at launch. If true (we'll have to wait until launch to know for sure), this fact alone may influence the market in unpredictable ways.

According to the the Planetside 2 developers, the PS4 version will look like the PC version on max settings.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=586486

Now, please show me this mid range PC running Planetside 2 at max settings.

 

[Nethaniah]

What i don't understand is why half of the posts in this thread mention ''pc gamers showing of their e-peen'' even if i don't see many posts doing that, weird.

According to the the Planetside 2 developers, the PS4 version will look like the PC version on max settings.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=586486

Now, please show me this mid range PC running Planetside 2 at max settings.

PS2 has terrible optmization, i wouldn't take it's benchmarks very seriously, also it's a sony joint so ofcourse it will be more optimized for the ps4.

I remember when people claimed that PS4 wouldn't be able to run Planetside 2, because of the CPU.

If the port is just as bad as the pc version, it won't.

 

[phosphor112]

I remember when people claimed that PS4 wouldn't be able to run Planetside 2, because of the CPU.

If the port is just as bad as the pc version, it won't.

If they can get a port going, that's clearly not the case.

 

[shinobi602]

I think this next-gen is going to see PC elitists harp down consoles more than any previous gen, and I'll never understand why people give a shit so much.

 

[Nethaniah]

I think this next-gen is going to see PC elitists harp down consoles more than any previous gen, and I'll never understand why people give a shit so much.

Just looking at this thread it seems console gamers are more concerned with proving their system is better than pc gamers, i don't care either way since i'll purchase both.

Whered you get that idea? PS4 can't compete with a lot of PC's. It's just there is a lot of hyperbole on being able to get a PC that's more powerful for a similar price. Which isn't the case, and people have yet to prove.

Regardless if that is the case or not, why keep discussing it in a thread that is obviously not about that? Even IF pc gamers hammer on about that, just ignore them and continue discussing the subject at hand? Which i believe was the DF article about Watch Dogs.

My 2 cents on the article is that i find it amusing how Ubisoft is again lying to their customers with pretty demo's that never see the light of day and it will make sure i never buy this game unfortunately.

 

[phosphor112]

Just looking at this thread it seems console gamers are more concerned with proving their system is better than pc gamers, i don't care either way since i'll purchase both.

Whered you get that idea? PS4 can't compete with a lot of PC's. It's just there is a lot of hyperbole on being able to get a PC that's more powerful for a similar price. Which isn't the case, and people have yet to prove.

 

[Darklor01]

Just looking at this thread it seems console gamers are more concerned with proving their system is better than pc gamers, i don't care either way since i'll purchase both.

I don't see that. I see that there seems to be a conversation going on where people are trying to prove whether or not a comparatively spec PC is a better value than PS4.

Any other comparison doesn't seem fair. Most higher end PC rigs will outshine a PS4, especially at this point.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

No, he was accused of making a claim he never made. And true to form, half of the console faction reverts to grade-school-level "us versus them" mentality as soon as their favorite corporations are threatened, even if it is only in their imagination.

was he now......

Oh, I see someone beat me to the punch:

This may very well be the first time in gaming history where a mid-range gaming PC outperforms both next-gen consoles at launch. If true (we'll have to wait until launch to know for sure), this fact alone may influence the market in unpredictable ways. For instance:

and the post that beat him to the punch

A medium end PC would best these, and this is the first time in a while that the highest end console being released wont best them. That is the distinction here.

So you were saying?

and this isn't a us vs them

I know PCs today can beat the shit out of the PS4 and XB1 and anyone that would argue anything otherwise is delusional, it's the reason I plan on building one. But I'm not going to support the utter fantasy that the PC that I will build will not cost significantly more than the PS4 that I will also be buying. And that it would at bear minimum need to be significantly more to even be in the same ball park as the PS4. That's the fact that seems to really eat away at PC gamers

 

[Data West]

What is a 'medium' pc because I know plenty of 'medium' pcs that couldn't do stuff like Killzone or even Knack

 

[shandy706]

I will buy the PC version of all cross-platform games. This is why exclusive launch games are a big deal to me.

 

[Darklor01]

Random value equation:

PS4 = $399
PS+ * 10 years = $500
5(very low amount of "free" games a person would grab within a year, I'd assume) games "free" per year at $10 per title * 10 years = -$500
PS4 costs $399

Can I build a PC for $399.99 which will competitively play PS4 quality new release games for 10 years without upgrade to PC for the life of the PS4(guessing 10 years on the VERY high end)?

Edit: I forgot, you have to add in the cost of games for the PC as well if you're calculating games in on the PS4 side. So, you have to build a running PC with Blu-ray drive, competitively running games over 10ish years at PS4 level quality, and add the cost of games for the PC at .. say.. I dunno.. $5 fair per title at 5 titles per year(Steam stuff). So you have to add $60 in games per year over 10 years($600) to the cost of that PC value.

 

[bigace33]

I think this next-gen is going to see PC elitists harp down consoles more than any previous gen, and I'll never understand why people give a shit so much.

Well you are actually fanning the fires by calling people "PC elitist". It's funny that all the name calling in this thread is done by the console only crowd. I'm a PC gamer who will eventually buy one of the consoles. I cancelled my preorders because there are no games I want for either console right now, and I can play the multiplats on my current rig. I for one am glad that PCs can keep up with this next gen easier than ever before. Saves me some money. B^D

 

[alexandros]

This is a hard-core gaming site. People here already know about the advantages and disadvantages of the different platforms.

With all due respect, I don't know what site you are frequenting but on NeoGAF a large part of the userbase is absolutely clueless when it comes to technology and specs. And I don't mean that they can't participate in a highly tech-oriented discussion (neither can I) but that they don't seem to understand basic tech terminology. Not only that, but they refuse to actually sit down and listen, preferring instead to fall back on traditional consolewar-ey rhetoric.

According to the the Planetside 2 developers, the PS4 version will look like the PC version on max settings.

Let's see some footage of the game in action and then we'll talk. Didn't they also say theat their multicore optimization code will carry over to the PC version?

I think this next-gen is going to see PC elitists harp down consoles more than any previous gen, and I'll never understand why people give a shit so much.

Explaining stuff = PC elitist. Ok, I guess.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

Random value equation:

PS4 = $399
PS+ * 10 years = $500
5(very low amount of "free" games a person would grab within a year, I'd assume) games "free" per year at $10 per title * 10 years = -$500
PS4 costs $399

Can I build a PC for $399.99 which will competitively play PS4 quality new release games for 10 years without upgrade to PC for the life of the PS4(guessing 10 years on the VERY high end)?

short answer = no

long answer = hell fucking no

 

[shinobi602]

Well you are actually fanning the fires by calling people "PC elitist". It's funny that all the name calling in this thread is done by the console only crowd. I'm a PC gamer who will eventually buy one of the consoles. I cancelled my preorders because there are no games I want for either console right now, and I can play the multiplats on my current rig. I for one am glad that PCs can keep up with this next gen easier than ever before. Saves me some money. B^D

PCs have always "kept up" with consoles, what are you talking about?

And please don't act like there aren't folks like that on GAF, both for PCs and console warriors fighting their fight. Anybody that makes it a point to point out that PC versions of games look better than the consoles or brag about higher fps/resolution just seem childish to me. Why yes, software will perform and look better on a machine with superior hardware...just seems like a non-issue.

Explaining stuff = PC elitist. Ok, I guess.

Where did I say that? "Explaining stuff" is a little vague, and wasn't what I meant.

"Lol console X version looks like shit, will stick with superior PC version" is what I see a lot of.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

PCs have always "kept up" with consoles, what are you talking about?

And please don't act like there aren't folks like that on GAF, both for PCs and console warriors fighting their fight. Anybody that makes it a point to point out that PC versions of games look better than the consoles or brag about higher fps/resolution just seem childish to me. Why yes, software will perform and look better on a machine with superior hardware...just seems like a non-issue.

I actually raised that point and was ignored, it's a complete myth, PCs have ALWAYS, ALWAYS outperformed consoles

 

[R_thanatos]

argh even with the slow motions and all , the lightning model is very impressive and that alone please me greatly.

 

[bigace33]

What is a 'medium' pc because I know plenty of 'medium' pcs that couldn't do stuff like Killzone or even Knack

What would you consider a medium PC? My rig would be considered low end by today's standards yet MY PS3 can't come anywhere near touching it. I've had it since 2010 and it's still performing great. Right now I have a 560 ti and I am about to slap a 760 in her to get ready for Titanfall and Watch Dogs. My cost of admission into next gen is very low considering the years of service I have gotten out of my comp.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Let's see some footage of the game in action and then we'll talk. Didn't they also say theat their multicore optimization code will carry over to the PC version?

And what's the problem with that?

 

[i-Lo]

Where did I say that? "Explaining stuff" is a little vague, and wasn't what I meant.

"Lol console X version looks like shit, will stick with superior PC version" is what I see a lot of.

Yea, it has been a pattern with him. Since argument would bring nothing to the table, Ignore list is the best place for him.

 

[alexandros]

"Lol console X version looks like shit, will stick with superior PC version" is what I see a lot of.

I never said that either. Simple question though: Why do you characterize the above as "elitist"? What is so elitist about wanting to play the best version available of a particular game?

PCs have always "kept up" with consoles, what are you talking about?

Indeed they have, at least after the advent of 3D accelerators. However the issue we're debating here is less about technology and more about price. During the Xbox 360's launch you needed a beefy, expensive machine in order to achieve similar performance. This time around there are valid reasons to theorize that one might achieve comparable levels of performance at a much lower price point. We won't know for sure until launch of course.

And what's the problem with that?

It's not a problem at all. I'm just pointing out that we'll need to benchmark both versions again after said patch in order to accurately compare performance numbers.

Yea, it has been a pattern with him. Since argument would bring nothing to the table, Ignore list is the best place for him.

Don't put words in my mouth. Go back and read what I actually wrote, then comment.

 

[maplelord93]

I never said that either. Simple question though: Why do you characterize the above as "elitist"? What is so elitist about wanting to play the best version available of a particular game?



Indeed they have, at least after the advent of 3D accelerators. However the issue we're debating here is less about technology and more about price. During the Xbox 360's launch you needed a beefy, expensive machine in order to achieve similar performance. This time around there are valid reasons to theorize that one might achieve comparable levels of performance at a much lower price point. We won't know for sure until launch of course.



It's not a problem at all. I'm just pointing out that we'll need to benchmark both versions again after said patch in order to accurately compare performance numbers.



Don't put words in my mouth. Go back and read what I actually wrote, then comment.

Edit: nvm I understand now.

 

[shinobi602]

I never said that either. Simple question though: Why do you characterize the above as "elitist"? What is so elitist about wanting to play the best version available of a particular game?

I never said you said that.

And it comes off that way because a person sounds like an asshole when saying it in the manner I gave an example of.

 

[alexandros]

You mean like yourself?

Sure, why not. I'm certainly no tech expert and there are people here far more knowledgeable than me.

And it comes off that way because a person sounds like an asshole when saying it in the manner I gave an example of.

Granted, saying that x version "looks like shit" is a pretty aggressive thing to say.

 

[kortez320]

I don't understand why console gamers have such an issue with PC being more powerful. It's a Edit: OPEN platform with new hardware being released all the time. Of course it's more powerful. Only a dunce doesn't put two and two together there.

These next-gen consoles in particular are fairly weak at least compared to where consoles were vs PC's at launch in years past. It's a freaking mobile CPU and a GPU that's already a year old. By the time 2014 rolls around Nvidia will have released two completely new sets of GPUs since the 7850 was released.

I mean I just don't really see where the argument is. There really is no argument I guess just some people mad about reality.

The really fucked up part though is the corporate loyalty on one side.

 

[KageMaru]

Not surprised about the downscaling of the graphics. I'm sure they could improve some over the next few months, but we shouldn't expect them to match the graphics we saw last year.

Also I know many think that there is this nice jump in efficiency when moving to console, but that gap has narrowed down quite a bit since the older DX9 days.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

I don't understand why console gamers have such an issue with PC being more powerful. It's a closed platform with new hardware being released all the time. Of course it's more powerful. Only a dunce doesn't put two and two together there.

These next-gen consoles in particular are fairly weak at least compared to where consoles were vs PC's at launch in years past. It's a freaking mobile CPU and a GPU that's already a year old. By the time 2014 rolls around Nvidia will have released two completely new sets of GPUs since the 7850 was released.

I mean I just don't really see where the argument is. There really is no argument I guess just some people mad about reality.

The really fucked up part though is the corporate loyalty on one side.

*edit* why bother

 

[kortez320]

Not surprised about the downscaling of the graphics. I'm sure they could improve some over the next few months, but we shouldn't expect them to match the graphics we saw last year.

Also I know many think that there is this nice jump in efficiency when moving to console, but that gap has narrowed down quite a bit since the older DX9 days.

This is true also.

But then again I see it thrown around all the time on this forum that Windows is some huge resource hog that saps half your system. Hasn't been true in the slightest for years.

In fact if the rumors about the PS4/Xbone's OS are true it looks like they might have more OS overhead. Which is crazy.

 

[FeiRR]

PS+ does not "give you" games, it loans them to you as long as you have a subscription.

Same goes for Steam, a PC service platform which sells games you don't own. Steam's subscription period is undefined. If it ends tomorrow, I'll be left with nothing. I know the chances are close to nil but, legally speaking, this is reality. With PS+ I at least know how long I'll be able to play those games: as long as I pay the service, which will be probably the next 6-7 years (as long as I'm willing to play online on PS4). I prefer to know my rights and make my customer choices based on facts, not promises.

$2000 a year? Sounds like an overinflated non-figure. PS+ is a nice perk but it doesn't help to exaggerate things or rudely order people around.

I didn't draw it out of the blue http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/year-one-of-playstation-plus-value-in-free-games-185486-20143 Of course those are RRP prices. If you want to argue, you can change 2000 to 500 or whatever you seem fit. I was asking why you don't count that value in, not arguing about the exact figure.

 

[i-Lo]

I don't understand why console gamers have such an issue with PC being more powerful. It's a closed platform with new hardware being released all the time. Of course it's more powerful. Only a dunce doesn't put two and two together there.

These next-gen consoles in particular are fairly weak at least compared to where consoles were vs PC's at launch in years past. It's a freaking mobile CPU and a GPU that's already a year old. By the time 2014 rolls around Nvidia will have released two completely new sets of GPUs since the 7850 was released.

I mean I just don't really see where the argument is. There really is no argument I guess just some people mad about reality.

The really fucked up part though is the corporate loyalty on one side.

And this is why people object. Oversimplification.

Plus when you have comments like, "a 3-4 year old mid range gaming PC is better" then that kind of hot air nonsense just aggravates the issue.

And of course, with the correct assembly of components a pc will be more powerful than a console. A PC is a sum of its parts and a console is a sum of its customized parts.

 

[Darklor01]

I don't understand why console gamers have such an issue with PC being more powerful. It's a closed platform with new hardware being released all the time. Of course it's more powerful. Only a dunce doesn't put two and two together there.

These next-gen consoles in particular are fairly weak at least compared to where consoles were vs PC's at launch in years past. It's a freaking mobile CPU and a GPU that's already a year old. By the time 2014 rolls around Nvidia will have released two completely new sets of GPUs since the 7850 was released.

I mean I just don't really see where the argument is. There really is no argument I guess just some people mad about reality.

The really fucked up part though is the corporate loyalty on one side.

I have no problem with PC being more powerful or less powerful actually. I just like to compare apples with apples if I'm asked to.

Also, I still think the thread was about a comparison of a what was shown for a game running on a PC rigged out similarly to PS4 spec at the time the build was shown from a while ago against a build running on an actual PS4 system, and how the to match up, or don't. I do not think it's about how the build running on a PC from a while ago is much better than the build on the console, and thusly a PC build from a while back being possibly better is exemplifying why PC is better than PS4. We already know this.

 

[Nethaniah]

Same goes for Steam, a PC service platform which sells games you don't own. Steam's subscription period is undefined. If it ends tomorrow, I'll be left with nothing. I know the chances are close to nil but, legally speaking, this is reality. With PS+ I at least know how long I'll be able to play those games: as long as I pay the service, which will be probably the next 6-7 years (as long as I'm willing to play online on PS4). I prefer to know my rights and make my customer choices based on facts, not promises.


I didn't draw it out of the blue http://www.gamerevolution.com/news/year-one-of-playstation-plus-value-in-free-games-185486-20143 Of course those are RRP prices. If you want to argue, you can change 2000 to 500 or whatever you seem fit. I was asking why you don't count that value in, not arguing about the exact figure.

Who says Sony's gaming division doesn't go belly up in the coming years? Who says they won't change their PS+ or remove games that you already got through them, come on comparing it to steam is ludicrous and is really grasping at straws.

 

[kortez320]

And this is why people object. Oversimplification.

Plus when you have comments like, "a 3-4 year old mid range gaming PC is better" then that kind of hot air nonsense just aggravates the issue.

And of course, with the correct assembly of components a pc will be more powerful than a console. A PC is a sum of its parts and a console is a sum of its customized parts.

It's not really oversimplification though is it?

I simply listed the release date of a part and noted that on the PC side two GPU generations will have passed by the time that part even releases on the PS4. And pointed out that the jaguar arch is designed for mobile platforms. Which it is.

Throwing around highly misunderstood counterpoints like "coding to the metal" and "100% optimization" is a MUCH larger oversimplification then anything I said.

Although I agree with your point that 3-4 year old midrange is better is bunk. You will definitely have to pay for the priveledge of owning a system that will outperform next-gen consoles. But for anyone with a halfway decent job it's not that huge an investment compared to many other hobbies.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

And here we go again...

This thread is a joke.

yup, we're going in circles now

 

[FeiRR]

Who says Sony's gaming division doesn't go belly up in the coming years? Who says they won't change their PS+ or remove games that you already got through them,

What I know is I can still download PSN content from the first day I purchased it. What else I know is Valve changed their TOS a year ago and gave me two choices: a) agree to comply with their subscription-based policy or b) fuck off, no refund for games I bought before that. Based on those two facts, I trust Sony more than Valve.

come on comparing it to steam is ludicrous and is really grasping at straws.

Stop being rhetoric and falsify any facts I wrote to prove me wrong.

 

[not_so_special]

and is really grasping at straws.

he is not the only one who is doing that

 

[i-Lo]

It's not really oversimplification though is it?

I simply listed the release date of a part and noted that on the PC side two GPU generations will have passed by the time that part even releases on the PS4. And pointed out that the jaguar arch is designed for mobile platforms. Which it is.

Throwing around highly misunderstood counterpoints like "coding to the metal" and "100% optimization" is a MUCH larger oversimplification then anything I said.

Although I agree with your point that 3-4 year old midrange is better is bunk. You will definitely have to pay for the priveledge of owning a system that will outperform next-gen consoles. But for anyone with a halfway decent job it's not that huge an investment compared to many other hobbies.

Well, the GPU in PS4 is not exactly a 7850 rather in between that and 7870. Plus it has customizations that's in the roadmap for AMD 9XXX series. Pertaining to Jaguar cores, customizations are being done to it as well but things are a bit hush hush there.

And although "coding to the metal" can be used in a hyperbolic manner it is real and there benefits objectively exists. More to the point, coding for a fixed hardware is the biggest contributor to console games that end up looking as good as they do on the hardware that would be considered ancient (like Halo 4, GoW A or Uncharted 3 etc).

 

[Nethaniah]

What I know is I can still download PSN content from the first day I purchased it. What else I know is Valve changed their TOS a year ago and gave me two choices: a) agree to comply with their subscription-based policy or b) fuck off, no refund for games I bought before that. Based on those two facts, I trust Sony more than Valve.

Stop being rhetoric and falsify any facts I wrote to prove me wrong.

I got refunds for multiple games and so have many others, the whole ''no refunds'' bit is to cover their asses in reality it's possible to get a refund on every single game i own, might take some legwork but still.

Also my first game on steam was from 2005, i can still download that game without having to pay Valve ANY money, i don't see how PS+ can beat that.

 

[Maxrunner]

So 10 pages passed and the ps4 looks inferior to the trailer from last year. And Sony fans are saying to wait for the console to release, right? maybe there's some magic juice too like the xbone?