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[Tripolygon]

Watch the video too.

The video covered what's in the article. I watched the video like 20 seconds after it went up. I was furiously hitting the refresh button.

 

[anothertech]

so what game do you guys think will be the first big DF face off between Pro and Scorpio?

Destiny2 baby. I can see it now ;D

 

[PAULINK]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Question is are you impressed? I saw a tweet of yours today. In which you Said Scorpio would have Ryzen And a Vega GPU. You said no way MS could hit 6 tflops on the Gpu otherwise. Those are your words so I ask are you impressed?

I was wrong. They did. Clearly it didn't need the things I thought it needed in order for Microsoft to hit their performance targets.

I was expecting 980 or even 980 Ti level perf at a high point. It apparently matched a GTX 1070 according to Digital Foundry. Even if it doesn't hold true across every possible kind of game, that is damn impressive. I did suggest once that it might be able to match 1070 and people thought I was crazy. Early indications suggest it just might be able to.

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers.

Most important thing at the end of the day. This is good for gamers.

 

[BeforeU]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

I would be surprised if they release anything before 2019.

 

[big_z]

I'm worried this console will sound like a jet engine.

The XB1 is far from a perfect console, but at least it's quite.

Same, blower fans are generally not quiet and I require my consoles to be low noise. I don't want another console that's sounds like a launch PS4/pro.

microsoft needs to use a high quality fan with good bearings and heatsink if they hope to keep noise down. They can't cheap out like Sony although I worry they will simply due to cost or maybe there will be another console lottery.

 

[Qvoth]

can someone explain in terms of dragon ball power levels how powerful scorpio is compared to the rest?

something like

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I was wrong. They did. Clearly it didn't need the things I thought it needed in order for Microsoft to hit their performance targets.

I was expecting 980 or even 980 Ti level perf at a high point. It apparently matched a GTX 1070 according to Digital Foundry. Even if it doesn't hold true across every possible kind of game, that is damn impressive. I did suggest once that it might be able to match 1070 and people thought I was crazy. Early indications suggest it just might be able to.



Most important thing at the end of the day. This is good for gamers.

You've been overly optimistic, but I will say you've owned up to everything including your side bets.

 

[Dizzan]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

I bought a Pro and have no regrets. Played some awesome games that look great on my 4k tv. By the time Scorpio is released, I can always sell it and pay the difference for a Scorpio. Not a huge outlay that way.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

lmao...obviously you need to dig a little deeper into his post history...it goes way beyond anything related to Scorpio...

Blind fanboyism is a 100% accurate assessment of his brand loyalty

I just think you should take care with this kind of statement. You better have a very clear reason to say it, otherwise you're the one that sounds like a fanboy (a bitter one).

Never stalked the user (none actually, thankfully), but I remember reading a bunch of his posts in this forum. I don't remember seeing anything from him that would fit your statement.

 

[BigPapi]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

Naw next sony console has to be ths ps5

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Battlefront will likely be the first big AAA difference. Since it'll be 60 on both and every other graphical feature will take back seat to that fact that's where we'll see where Scorpios advantages differentiate.

 

[MaulerX]

Looks much better to me - bigger than the difference between the first two consoles.

It's a little more than slight to be fair.

GPU alone is 43%, RAM and it's bandwidth increase is another 40 something %.

So overall, we're closeish to a 50% difference. I wouldn't call that slight. It's not HUGE, but it's not slight.

I was being sarcastic poking a 'lil fun at people calling the difference "slight" all day. 😉

 

[demigod]

How is it annoying when a Exec tells a fan something and the fan reports on it? I worked retail for 30+ years and been attending CES (before they spun off to be E3) and I have been told a lot of things from Execs that did not pan out. Just because he was reporting what he was told, why is that "fucking annoying"? Perhaps this person believed they would have Zen and things changed. Shit happens.

There are many posters here that posts things they are told and some come to fruition and others don't...does that make them all "fucking annoying"?

No need to be attacking people for no reason. My fear with the announcement and many others were as well was with people just not having common decency and respect for others. Many, many people are really happy with the specs and even "him" that was told it had Zen and had faith about it is still fine with what was announced today. I see no reason to be attacking people.

He said rep, not exec. Might as well get your info from a gamestop employee.

 

[Metfanant]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

There will be no hardware response from Sony...


Sony will respond with a PS5 in 2-4 years, whenever they feel ready for their next gen console...the pro was their mid gen refresh...MS' refresh came a year later...

I just think you should take care with this kind of statement. You better have a very clear reason to say it, otherwise you're the one that sounds like a fanboy (a bitter one).

Never stalked the user (none actually, thankfully), but I remember reading a bunch of his posts in this forum. I don't remember seeing anything from him that would fit your statement.

lol

 

[Metalingus5150]

I wonder if when PS5 and Nextboxt releases that they'll have two models at launch. A high end expensive model AND a standard model.

 

[wachie]

I have read this article twice and the only things that stand out to me are

1. Delta color compression which is part of GCN 1.2
2. Improved GPU command processor to natively support high-level DX12 instructions.
3. Customised jaguar CPU

The first two being a fairly standard improvement in GCN architecture, second lacks details to know exactly what functions they are talking about, and the third being standard PR statement. The Xbox One has a customised jaguar, as does PS4/Pro.

Thats not to say Digital Foundry wont have more articles giving more details on more features. But strictly going by the above articles, you are wrong in getting the impression that Scorpio has more done than PS4 Pro. PS4 Pro actually has AMD Vega features.

Digital Foundry article on PS4 Pro enhancements over PS4.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297359

Too much logic in this post.

I was saying No Vega, No Zen, No HBM, No ESRAM and yet some people kept claiming it will have all or some of them. Suddenly Polaris+Jaguar is impressive as balls to the same people

 

[Tripolygon]

Um, a lot more than that. The stance on super sampling is amazing, the GPU specs, which definitely exceeded expectations, and much more.!

This is what i'm replying to

I love my Pro, but the Scorpio sounds like much more has been done to it than just increased tflops.

No we are not talking bump in specs and standard console policy stance. We are talking about the number of improvements to the Scorpio GPU and CPU compared to PS4 Pro. I've listed the obvious things that were in the articles unless I missed something?

 

[Chille]

can someone explain in terms of dragon ball power levels how powerful scorpio is compared to the rest?

something like

I want to say XB1 is 2nd Form Cell, had potential but due to ego screwed up a few times, XB1 S was Perfect Cell, almost as powerful as Teen Gohan *PS4 but lacking somewhat in areas. Then Scorpio is Super Perfect Cell, has the potential to be stronger but we might not see the advantages all the time.

 

[soundscream]

Battlefront will likely be the first big AAA difference. Since it'll be 60 on both and every other graphical feature will take back seat to that fact that's where we'll see where Scorpios advantages differentiate.

What about the shadow of mordor sequel?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

What about the shadow of mordor sequel?

Mordor already looks great on Pro. I imagine it'll be a 60fps game that gives the greatest differences between the two. Especially because Dice seems to "hit" their 60fps target and adjust graphical settings from there while maintaining 60. How much more can Scorpio get away with while maintaining 60?

I think that will be the first big DF face off of a AAA game, plus Scorpio will likely be out by release.

 

[MaulerX]

Too much login in this post.

I was saying No Vega, No Zen, No HBM, No ESRAM and yet some people kept claiming it will have all or some of them. Suddenly Polaris+Jaguar is impressive as balls to the same people

Even DF was impressed with what they were able to accomplish with those parts. They (or anyone) didn't expect a GPU to be clocked so highly on a console (for heat reasons presumably). Some people were guessing Vega because they figured they'd use higher compute units but at a much lower clock speed.

 

[Granadier]

This is what i'm replying to

No we are not talking bump in specs and standard console policy stance. We are talking about the number of improvements to the Scorpio GPU and CPU compared to PS4 Pro. I've listed the obvious things that were in the articles unless I missed something?

Also the reduction of draw calls to 11, but apparently that doesn't count to you.

 

[komaruR]

So how is the noise and heat reduction vapor chamber and centrifugal fan is? I don't own any gtx reference card to get a feel of their sound and heat reduction.
Just hopefully no RROD ver. Scorpio

 

[Space_nut]

Actually, if Pro was using checkerboarding it would be able to have better lighting and effects by virtue of having to render half as many pixels with only 30% few flops.

better lighting? maybe
better effects? most likely not since having better effects mean higher quality samples like textures which require a lot of bandwidth and memory. Both of which pro is mostly stuck with ps4/xb1 settings

Just noticed in the DF video that many more videos/articles are coming soon to go further into the customizations for the CPU/GPU. The GPU alone has about 60 hardware customizations created. They spent a lot of time looking at how games are bottlenecked in past consoles and before the even made the SOC they redesigned the current tech to match what they wanted.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Suddenly Polaris+Jaguar is impressive as balls to the same people

I think the hardware is largely what was rumoured/expected by most, but the apparent performance is impressing.

 

[Purest 78]

good thing I held off on a pro, maybe sony will make another iteration to match up with this. Either way, it's good for gamers. Curious to see what games will be taking advantage of this hardware this e3.

Sony won't try to match this Pro/ Scorpio is for enthusiast. I suspect ps5 will be out in 2019. What % of Console owners you think were up at 6 and 9am to check out Eurogamer. Better question is what % of consoles owners even know what Eurogamer is?

 

[Metfanant]

Also the reduction of draw calls to 11, but apparently that doesn't count to you.

It would count more if they actually told us what the number was before it was reduced to 11...it could have been 12 (it obviously wasn't, but you get my point)...

Those "thousands" of draw calls they were throwing around was not what was reduced to 11

 

[Metalingus5150]

better lighting? maybe
better effects? most likely not since having better effects mean higher quality samples like textures which require a lot of bandwidth and memory. Both of which pro is mostly stuck with ps4/xb1 settings

You can't really say this since Forza is an exclusive. We'll find out how big of a difference it will be when multiplats start hitting both consoles.

 

[clav]

Just hopefully no RROD ver. Scorpio

If MS engineers had cut corners, they would have stacked memory chips on both sides of the board to save on PCB tracing. Heat from chips + clamps mounting the center of the board made 3RROD inevitable. Band-aid solutions from repair centers involved placing pink and white rubber pieces to push against the memory chips to even a thick heat pipe solution sticking out next to the DVD drives, but they didn't stop the chips from desoldering themselves.

You don't see it here, which is an excellent design. 12 individual memory chips all visible from the top. They could have designed it with 6 chips on top and 6 chips on bottom.

 

[Granadier]

It would count more if they actually told us what the number was before it was reduced to 11...it could have been 12 (it obviously wasn't, but you get my point)...

Those "thousands" of draw calls they were throwing around was not what was reduced to 11

True, it would've been better if they had tal...

"It can suck up a lot of processor resources, a pipeline that traditionally takes thousands - perhaps hundreds of thousands - of CPU instructions. With Scorpio's hardware offload, any draw call can be executed with just 11 instructions, and just nine for a state change"

...oh wait they did.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

In PANOS i trusted. Thank you for your team.

The internals look so damn attractive.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Hopefully I can get in on the pre-order from Amazon or other places.

I usually have terrible luck and have to cool my heels for 3 months.

 

[belvedere]

The Pro got criticism for being "half-assed" and yet the tech is more than fundamentally similar to Scorpio's. In the Pro deep dive from DF, they mentioned how Pro GPU optimizations led to DX12 improvements on the PC side. I've asked in the DX12 Scorpio thread, but I'd love to see how this compares to the DX12 "hardware" implementation in Scorpio. There were other custom changes made that were already mentioned on the last page as well.

I love this shit and can't wait for the DF analysis videos this fall.

 

[Tripolygon]

Also the reduction of draw calls to 11, but apparently that doesn't count to you.

That falls under number 2 which is improvements to GPU command processor. The article mentions moving Direct3D 12 functions to the command processor, using draw calls as an example. On that matter, Xbox One had issues with draw calls, that was something that the mono driver and DX12 attempted to remedy. Its cool that they have improved it in Scorpio, per the article.

 

[Space_nut]

The Pro got criticism for being "half-assed" and yet the tech is more than fundamentally similar to Scorpio's. In the Pro deep dive from DF, they mentioned how Pro GPU optimizations led to DX12 improvements on the PC side. I've asked in the DX12 Scorpio thread, but I'd love to see how this compares to the DX12 "hardware" implementation in Scorpio. There were other custom changes made that were already mentioned on the last page as well.

I love this shit and can't wait for the DF analysis videos this fall.

DF states about 60 hardware customizations made to Scorpio's GPU. It's going to get good

 

[SenjutsuSage]

edit.

 

[Matt]

Reality is stranger than fiction, or I guess in this case the reality is fiction. Hahaha. GamingBolt wrote an article confusing you with RAD's Matt Pettineo. They've pulled the article now, but the headline said, "Ready At Dawn's Graphics Dev On Xbox Scorpio: CPU Upgrade is Not Huge or Amazing, won't be priced...[attractively]". lol.

http://linkis.com/gamingbolt.com/4BEOp

Then somebody talked to Matt Pettineo on Twitter and he was pretty upset that people didn't know he's a Rocko's Modern Life avatar guy, not Darkwing Duck! lol.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MyNameIsMJP/status/850091884588417024


Dude, I would be pissed! What a farce.

lol, well that's good to know. Thanks for the summary.

 

[notaskwid]

can someone explain in terms of dragon ball power levels how powerful scorpio is compared to the rest?

something like

PS4Pro is Perfect Cell, Scorpio is Perfect Cell after exploding and coming back.

 

[Klocker]

So happy to see these specs... this thing will be a monster compared to xbone...

Finally playing a game with crystal clear IQ.

8GB of game Ram... fuck yea and the Hdmi port in is retained, hopefully that means I still get to watch TV and control my home theater through it.. awesome.

I'm so frigging excited.. been waiting for console with this much power and IQ since my Atari 2600

 

[Slackbladder]

All sounds good. Now we just need good news about the price.

 

[Hip Hop]

Naw next sony console has to be ths ps5

i doubt it.

now in days it makes little sense to launch multi billion projects for another console and start from zero fanbase to build it up all over again when they can just keep doing this. And to be honest, it still feels like this gen is barely lifting off its feet.

I see more iterations going forward for now.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

You've been overly optimistic, but I will say you've owned up to everything including your side bets.

Hey, Scorpio looks like it may deliver beyond my expectations. If those results DF saw hold, it's an absolute beast in every sense of the word.

 

[wachie]

Even DF was impressed with what they were able to accomplish with those parts. They (or anyone) didn't expect a GPU to be clocked so highly on a console (for heat reasons presumably). Some people were guessing Vega because they figured they'd use higher compute units but at a much lower clock speed.

DF has a reputation of doing sponsored content for a while now. I would trust TechReport, Anandtech or any other serious technical outlet rather than fluff words like "to the metal", "highly custom" etc. Remember these guys are the same people who spun the original Xbox One architecture as something that was bleeding edge - remember the cache engines, 204GB/s ESRAM, multiple articles on reduction of RAM usage etc. At this point, DF's rep is quite low in my book.

I think the hardware is largely what was rumoured/expected by most, but the apparent performance is impressing.

I dont know about "expected by most". Most people were expecting Vega (which was the most reasonable expectation among the wishlist of Zen, Vega, HBM) and even that didnt come to pass. The performance is exactly in-line with what a 6TF GPU would give in a console environment.

 

[Matt]

Hey, Scorpio looks like it may deliver beyond my expectations. If those results DF saw hold, it's an absolute beast in every sense of the word.

Well...your expectations were Vega and Zen, so no, it's not on that level.

But it is a nice and strong piece of kit.

 

[Quasar]

There will be no hardware response from Sony...

I guess the response from Sony will be exclusive games and price cuts. And Trying to sell the scorpio at 500$ against a 350 or less PS4Pro with game momentum will be rough.

 

[Metfanant]

True, it would've been better if they had tal...



...oh wait they did.

I'm questioning​ your reading comprehension skills...

One sentence is talking about the entire pipeline...the next sentence is talking about a single draw call...

You don't really think that they reduced the number of instructions needed for a single draw call from hundreds of thousands, down to 11 do you?

You want to try again?

Hey, Scorpio looks like it may deliver beyond my expectations. If those results DF saw hold, it's an absolute beast in every sense of the word.

Come on..you were positive it would have hardware from completely different generations...having both Zen and Vega would have increased performance tremendously...

Scorpio is a seriously powerful console..

But to sit here and say you thought it would be Zen/Vega...and now that you know it's not to say that Jaguar/Polaris somehow exceeds your expectations is asinine

 

[Shil Pencer]

I wonder if when PS5 and Nextboxt releases that they'll have two models at launch. A high end expensive model AND a standard model.

PS4 pro and Scorpio will be those standard models. That's the end game. If either company thinks they can get away with a refresh they will be the first to fail

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Sounds like a beast of a console, just hope it has the game library to warrant all that muscle.

Looking forward to seeing the actual console, E3 should be fun this year.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

PS4Pro is Perfect Cell, Scorpio is Perfect Cell after exploding and coming back.

Naw, more like PS4 Pro is SSJ Vegera and Scorpio is SSJ Goku in the Cell Saga.

Not really a vast difference in power.