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[cws]

If the performance is terrible then it is pointless.

Some games just won't work on certain hardware, and that's ok.

I'd rather developers produce stuff that does work.Give me exclusive Switch games over terrible third party ports.

Performance is terrible?
Stop being such a Drama Queen. They were impressed with what little they saw from the Switch version. If you need 60fps you can play the PC/PS/Xbox release.

No one should be able to play Doom on Switch because you can't get off your high horse?

Console gamers have lived with reduced fps/graphics for decades compared to the potential PC releases but when it comes to Switch devs shouldn't even bother unless they can hit PS4/PC performance?

 

[c0de]

If this is the best they can do, then maybe they shouldn't have bothered. Maybe their engine isn't as scalable as people think.

With this attitude, we would've never gotten many games over the past. Shadow of the Colossus or Dark Souls, just to name two.
And no, it is potentially the switch that isn't as capable as people think.

 

[alr1ght]

Shock and awe at rip and tear being 30fps.

 

[chronic_archaic]

Why do people take any criticisms so personally?

30fps is fine for the majority of games. This isn't the usual frames wankery threads we always have. This is a game that objectively plays better at 60fps, not being 60fps.

DOOM is a fast game, it needs 60fps.

Really it does - with games like Destiny I give somewhat of a pass due to it's slower nature to begin with but this one... yeah, I couldn't stand playing it at 30fps. The game seriously leans on how fast and responsive it is.

 

[OCD Guy]

I believe Doom could be 60FPS on the Switch. Same goes for Sonic Forces and NBA 2K18 you mentioned. The thing is, developers choose to deliver some games at lower framerates that they would run on other consoles and it becomes a rule for more demanding titles. I hope for more games hitting 60FPS target within bigger third parties in the future, but I keep my expectations in check.

I guess my thought process was that for some developers, the framerate becomes key to the core gameplay. Take Rocket League for example, the developers have explicitly stated that 60fps is essential, and they'll scale the graphics down to achieve that.

I (wrongly) assumed Doom would take the same path, especially given comments from Marty Stratton (doom executive producer) that his main goal is framerate and then they work on graphical fidelity.

So in my mind I'm thinking they're gonna carry that same thought process on Switch, and shoot for 60fps on switch and then focus on how it looks.

Performance is terrible?
Stop being such a Drama Queen. They were impressed with what little they saw from the Switch version. If you need 60fps you can play the PC/PS/Xbox release.

No one should be able to play Doom on Switch because you can't get off your high horse?

Where have I said that no one should be able to play Doom on Switch?

People can play what they want, some people were happy to play through Just Cause 3 on PS4 afterall...

At the end of the day it's my opinion. On paper less than 540p, unstable 30fps and grainy textures sounds terrible. Obviously I'll reserve judgement for actual videos etc

 

[JonnyDBrit]

So DF is wrong or why was this video removed? Early upload? I haven't watched it, was he at the event himself?

The suspicion is that they inadvertently released before the embargo for previews was actually over.

As for resolution, it's worth noting that they don't have raw footage to do their usual straight edge pixel counting trick - weren't allowed to record any. All they could clearly estimate from was the Direct stream, and the clearest that gave them was 'a lot lower than 1080p'. The 540p, as far as I can recall from watching, is the baseline they used from 1080p at 50% resolution scale, not necessarily what's on Switch.

 

[dan2026]

Watch the video. There's a 60FPS option and a 30FPS option. You can definitely tell the difference (and I'd imagine the original video was recorded at 144hz on a PC)
https://youtu.be/BwAVoaZcN6Y?t=131

30FPS for this particular subgenre (arena shooter) is horrible. Can you imagine that kind of movement at that kind of frame rate? We did it back in the day with Quake and Doom. It wasn't ideal.

I'd say 30fps is horrible for any 1st person shooter.
The response time just isn't high enough, especially if its competitive.

 

[Alchemist]

And most of your posts are trashing the Switch?

Why would I trash something I own? Ports that aren't up to current standards shouldn't be on the system, especially when they're going to charge full price or even more.

 

[killatopak]

I mean, two of the biggest shooter franchises in recent memory in Halo and Destiny were 30 FPS throughout. Halo only recently transitioned to 60 FPS and was 30 FPS at its height. Destiny has a ~20 million strong playerbase and is 30 FPS on the majority of platforms it's available on. While I tend to prefer 60 FPS myself it's not like the larger majority of the market does, judging on consumption habits.

they are both built with 30fps in mind unlike Doom.

Difference is clear as well on the PC version of Destiny.

 

[TheMoon]

So what did they actually do? Analyse the trailer or build a "Switch PC" and use that as a basis?

I mean, both methods are rather asinine if you think about it. IIRC, every third party trailer in the direct was 30 fps.

both. visuals were compared with the Direct-footage, performance was based on hands-on impressions from an actual event.

So DF is wrong or why was this video removed? Early upload? I haven't watched it, was he at the event himself?

embargo wasn't up yet, clearly.

It's capped at 30fps, but it's not flawless 30fps. How would you call that?

I call that normal 30fps. While I bolded that bit, I meant your impressions of these impressions as a whole.

 

[PantsuJo]

I can't imagine this game will sell very well with that kind of performance, regardless of the unique features of Switch.

I think it will sell "enough" but I don' think performance is the main problem here.

Doom is priced sub-20$/€ everywhere, literally, on Ps4 and One and PC during sales, too.

I don't know how many people will buy a full priced release of Doom (aside from only-Switch users and hardcore Nintendo fans).

 

[nOoblet16]

Doom is the most technically advanced 60FPS game on consoles right now. Some of the effects it pushes is at a level of quality that is even superior to its 30FPS counterparts. It's quite GPU heavy and as such I expected it to be 30FPS considering how it looked (most of the effects seemed intact) but didn't say anything because I knew people would be dismissive about it.


Id tech 6 is a great engine that scales really well.

 

[verbatimo]

I want quality games, not downscaled cash grabs because the Switch is doing well.

Looking your post history. Lot's of switch negativity and shit posting and sony praise.

 

[knkng]

I wonder if the people who are saying "30fps is unacceptable" also defend their console when it cant do 60 for most games? Would you rather the devs just didn't bother releasing the game in that situation also?

And don't give me the 'its different for doom'. Play destiny 2 on PC at 60 and tell me that not the way the game is "meant" to be played. ALL games feel better at 60, thats just a fact

More frames is good, but releasing on more platforms is better.

Switch is my only home console right now, so I'm not trolling here, but I feel like a game such as Doom should be running at 60fps. I'm not even shitting on the game, I'm still happy it's on Switch, and I know that most consumers don't care about such things, but for me it is important here.

Just as an example, I don't care if something like BOTW or Mario Odyssey runs at 30fps, but for FE Warriors I will be using the 720/60 option, because I feel that framerate is more important in a Musou game than bumped resolution. Same idea with Doom.

 

[Wonder Peter]

Oh boy, we've come full circle.

Same users that always defend that 30 fps is fine when comparing PC versions to console versions are saying now that 30 fps is not fine when comparing console to portable console versions, without a hint of shame huh.

And to think we wouldn't have all this delicious drama if Digital Foundry didn't invent the footage? You doing God's work DF.

This basically. What surprises me the most is the switch is 1/20 the size of my PS4 and people are expecting to be up to par with it. Of course Switch will always get worst versions graphically in the most demanding games, it's a portable.

 

[BassForever]

As long as its a stable 30 I don't see a problem with it. Would you rather then say "60fps..... with tons of frame drops when anything happens" that would actually make the game unplayable. This seems more like a thread of "I didn't want to buy it again let me find an excuse not to".

 

[unrealist]

DF is impressed by the port but I will not listen to them. Almighty PHD tech geniuses and wizards from GAF are not after their through shit.. i mean analysis of the port. So no buy for me and so will 99% of the Switch owners in the world.

 

[DeuceGamer]

Not too surprising. There have to be compromises as the Switch is powerful for what it is, but it's not nearly as powerful as the X1/PS4. Will be interesting to get impressions and I'm curious to see how this ends up selling.

 

[UnNamed]

So, what they showed in that video wasn't the Switch version but just a PC running at switch lower specs.
So Switch version is yet to be revealed... or not?

 

[Irminsul]

both. visuals were compared with the Direct-footage, performance was based on hands-on impressions from an actual event.

That makes a lot more sense then. I guess Rich should know what he's talking about. A bit disappointing, but I might still get the game if it gets a bit cheaper.

 

[Peterthumpa]

I love DF but the rush to analyze this game using such a divisive method is a little bit weird, to say the least. I guess they knew this would generate plenty of views but "imagining" how it runs based on a PC is not what I had in mind. Maybe just a written article for now would suffice.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Why would I trash something I own? Ports that aren't up to current standards shouldn't be on the system, especially when they're going to charge full price or even more.

Yeh it's one thing to not want them yourself but an entire tier of ignorance above that when you start to hope that games that don't hit your personal criteria aren't available to anyone else.

 

[Widge]

I did all of Dark Souls at 720p30 (or below) and didn't really fuss at the PC version being limited at that at all (getting a lock on Blighttown is all I wanted).

I do recognise what people are saying about arena shooters here, but I'd reserve all judgement for hands on feedback. There could be some additional work around the actual gameplay that shapes the game for the platform. It's like when you play games on PC that have had controller input clearly considered and ones where it has literally tacked it on.

I'm more interested in what this means for FFXV coming to Switch. I'd be happy for something functional in that respect. I wouldn't have ever pinned a hope on it crossing the divide and now we are in a world where we're even saying "possible". I would have ruled anything PS4/XB1 out and I was pretty happy at seeing PS3/XB1 stuff cross the divide.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

So, what they showed in that video wasn't the Switch version but just a PC running at switch lower specs.
So Switch version is yet to be revealed... or not?

It was revealed, but DF weren't allowed to record footage from the Switch to measure things like resolution or performance directly. Hence they instead went the route of making something sorta comparable, in order to highlight how, if they really are specced similarly, the Switch version is rather technically impressive for the performance it achieved while undocked (they didn't get to play docked).

 

[OCD Guy]

Oh boy, we've come full circle.

Same users that always defend that 30 fps is fine when comparing PC versions to console versions are saying now that 30 fps is not fine when comparing console to portable console versions, without a hint of shame huh.

I think the key thing is the game itself.

If Rocket League was 30fps on Switch it would result in the same reaction. I just don't think some games work at lower framerates. Doom is one of those games. It's so fast paced that it's going to feel pretty jarring playing that at 25-30fps.

But then again we're all different, as I can't imagine NBA 2K18 being enjoyable at 30fps but some people here are loving it...

 

[Wil348]

Destiny 2 runs at 30fps on consoles yet plays wonderfully IMO. I think expecting 60fps for a game that was demanding for PS4/XB1 on a much smaller and less powerful piece of hardware is expecting way too much.

 

[NeoRaider]

540p, 30fps... 60$.

It's 8-9$ on PC.

 

[TheMoon]

I guess my thought process was that for some developers, the framerate becomes key to the core gameplay. Take Rocket League for example, the developers have explicitly stated that 60fps is essential, and they'll scale the graphics down to achieve that.

I (wrongly) assumed Doom would take the same path, especially given comments from Marty Stratton (doom executive producer) that his main goal is framerate and then they work on graphical fidelity.

So in my mind I'm thinking they're gonna carry that same thought process on Switch, and shoot for 60fps on switch and then focus on how it looks.

ironically, both games with Switch versions ported by the same devs

540p, 30fps... 60$.

It's 8-9$ on PC.

lol no.

 

[heringer]

I mean, I understand why they went with 30fps. A visually close to PS4 version of Doom running at 30 fps is far more impressive (for every consumer outside of Gaf) than a 60 fps version looking a lot worse. Even on Gaf some people were more impressed by NBA2K18 than with FIFA, which runs at 60 fps.

 

[Kill3r7]

Doom at 30fps is far from ideal but Doom on the go sounds awesome. Always great that more people get to enjoy this fantastic game.

 

[cws]

540p, 30fps... 60$.

It's 8-9$ on PC.

Cool... Buy it on PC then? Unless someone is forcing you to get the Switch version.

 

[KingSnake]

Some ports can be just bad ports. It's not a critique towards Switch. Bad ports can be criticised and in the end they will just hurt Switch rather than help it, creating the false impression that there isn't a market on Switch for these kind of games.

Hopefully Skyrim will sell well enough to keep Bethesda on board even if DOOM fails. Who knows, maybe enough people won't care about the quality of the DOOM port and it will not fail in the end.

 

[sanstesy]

This is a funny thread. Console players constantly call out PC elitism but then have no problem acting out their elitism on lower-end consoles compared to theirs.

Who are you to judge when someone will enjoy this game in 30fps? Calling this port "trash" and that they "shouldn't even have tried" is asisine. That's not for you to decide.

 

[NeoRaider]

Cool... Buy it on PC then?

I already did that.

 

[Alchemist]

Yeh it's one thing to not want them yourself but an entire tier of ignorance above that when you start to hope that games that don't hit your personal criteria aren't available to anyone else.

Personal criteria huh.

Time will tell and we'll see sales wise and if it's just my "personal criteria".

 

[RoadHazard]

I really wish people on this forum would just enjoy videogames instead of video game performance. "No 60fps, no buy!!!1!one1!".

Jesus christ. 30FPS is fine. It's absolutely fine.

I wish people who don't care about performance wouldn't enter threads about performance to complain about people caring about performance.

 

[nynt9]

Kinda makes me wonder why they started with New Colossus instead of also porting New Order.

New Order is id tech 5 whereas these two are 6.

Some ports can be just bad ports. It's not a critique towards Switch. Bad ports can be criticised and in the end they will just hurt Switch rather than help it, creating the false impression that there isn't a market on Switch for these kind of games.

Hopefully Skyrim will sell well enough to keep Bethesda on board even if DOOM fails. Who knows, maybe enough people won't care about the quality of the DOOM port and it will not fail in the end.

I don't know if it's fair to call this a bad port. Seems like they did everything they can given the hardware it has to run on.

 

[pswii60]

I really wish people on this forum would just enjoy videogames instead of video game performance. "No 60fps, no buy!!!1!one1!".

Jesus christ. 30FPS is fine. It's absolutely fine.

This is amazing if you're pandering for portable DOOM and Wolfy but for everyone else why wouldn't you just play the PS4/XBO/PC version at 60fps and 1080p? You can pick up the PS4 version for next to nothing now too. And this doesn't take in to consideration the likely gulf of a difference between the Switch and Pro/X versions of the upcoming Wolfy game.

That's being practical. But from a technical standpoint I have to say I'm amazed that this is successfully running on portable hardware at all, and it shows other devs what's possible on Switch so they'll not be so quick to write it off in future

That said, it might run 60fps docked after all.

 

[nubbe]

540p, 30fps... 60$.

It's 8-9$ on PC.

Just need a €2000 portable PC to play it at max settings, because anything else is unacceptable

lulz

 

[shiyrley]

If the performance is terrible then it is pointless.

Some games just won't work on certain hardware, and that's ok.

I'd rather developers produce stuff that does work.Give me exclusive Switch games over terrible third party ports.

So DF says it had "some dips" and the performance is terrible?

Or are you implying that every game that runs at 30 FPS on a console doesn't work on that hardware? So, like, most PS4 and Xbone games? lul

 

[sirap]

Destiny 2 runs at 30fps on consoles yet plays wonderfully IMO. I think expecting 60fps for a game that was demanding for PS4/XB1 on a much smaller and less powerful piece of hardware is expecting way too much.

Destiny and Doom are very different games. I have no problems playing modern FPS games at 30fps either but Doom might be a little too fast for that framerate. It's why id weren't willing to compromise on framerate for the PS4/XboxOne releases.

Doom at 30fps might work if they tweaked some of the movement speed. Idk, I'll have to play it myself but I tried capping the PC version at 30 and it wasn't fun.

 

[JoeInky]

540p, 30fps... 60$.

It's 8-9$ on PC.

Meh, to some people that's not that big of a deal.

I got binding of isaac on PC on sale and I still bought it for £35 on the switch eshop.

Hell, I almost bought a physical copy of the game as well for another £32 two days later because I didn't realise that the game had a physical version when I bought digital, there's still a chance I might do just that when I get my next paycheck.

 

[TannerDemoz]

Hopefully Skyrim will sell well enough to keep Bethesda on board even if DOOM fails. Who knows, maybe enough people won't care about the quality of the DOOM port and it will not fail in the end.

People will jump at this on the Switch. I don't see how this game will fail because a couple of whoppers on GAF are losing their shit at a game running 30FPS on the Switch.

 

[NeoRaider]

Just need a €2000 portable PC to play it at max settings, because anything else is unacceptable

lulz

??

 

[LordKano]

Just need a €2000 portable PC to play it at max settings, because anything else is unacceptable

lulz

A toaster can run DOOM in 60fps.
It's a bad port.

 

[thumb]

Let's hear what Marty Stratton of ID has to say about whether 60fps is needed for DOOM:

He also said that the determination to reach 1080p and 60 FPS isn't just for visual reasons. "For us it isn't just a lofty technical goal," he explained. "We really do think it's important to the feel of the game, it's important to the way our combat feels and our movement feels. It's got to be fast, it's got to be fluid, and it's all based on that. It really is a gameplay goal first and foremost.

Emphasis added.

Everyone downplaying 30fps is disagreeing with the people who designed the game.

Also from the same interview:

"If you do your best to give them a very consistent experience and a very high-quality experience, which for us is a fast, fluid 60 FPS, I think that's the most important thing. It's when you cut corners and you end up with a game that doesn't feel that good, and it's slow, and it's just a hodgepodge of a lack of focus throughout, that's when things start going awry. I think we'll hit all of our goals."

 

[SinCityAssassin]

This is amazing if you're pandering for portable DOOM and Wolfy but for everyone else why wouldn't you just play the PS4/XBO/PC version at 60fps and 1080p? You can pick up the PS4 version for next to nothing now too. And this doesn't take in to consideration the likely gulf of a difference between the Switch and Pro/X versions of the upcoming Wolfy game.

That's being practical. But from a technical standpoint I have to say I'm amazed that this is successfully running on portable hardware at all, and it shows other devs what's possible on Switch so they'll not be so quick to write it off in future

Personally speaking, I just don't want the bulk anymore. It's still 90 GBs on my PC and II dont play multiplayer or use Snap Maps..

 

[DESTROYA]

Don't care if it's 30FPS, just being able to play DOOM on the switch is good enough for me.

 

[JustenP88]

Watch the video. There's a 60FPS option and a 30FPS option. You can definitely tell the difference (and I'd imagine the original video was recorded at 144hz on a PC)
https://youtu.be/BwAVoaZcN6Y?t=131

30FPS for this particular subgenre (arena shooter) is horrible. Can you imagine that kind of movement at that kind of frame rate? We did it back in the day with Quake and Doom. It wasn't ideal.

Yes. I can imagine playing a game at 30 frames per second. Of course it's "not ideal."
Doom is out on PC and current gen consoles. We were never going to get the ideal experience on the Switch.

I can't wrap my head around how big the "60 fps is essential and I want to play FPS games on a tablet market" is, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably small enough to be statistically insignificant. A wide majority of gamers aren't going to notice what the frame rate is when they see this running on the Switch and I don't think conventional opinion will be "wow this is trash", it'll probably be "wow cool big game on the small console", like the accounts we've heard from journos who have tried it.

 

[Wonder Peter]

This is amazing if you're pandering for portable DOOM and Wolfy but for everyone else why wouldn't you just play the PS4/XBO/PC version at 60fps and 1080p? You can pick up the PS4 version for next to nothing now too. And this doesn't take in to consideration the likely gulf of a difference between the Switch and Pro/X versions of the upcoming Wolfy game.

That's being practical. But from a technical standpoint I have to say I'm amazed that this is successfully running on portable hardware at all, and it shows other devs what's possible on Switch so they'll not be so quick to write it off in future

I think their target market isn't the people that already have the game on PC, Ps4 or Xbox.