Mr Moose
Member
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DigitalFoundry: Metal Gear Solid Delta - Xbox Series X|S Tech Review - X Faster Than PS5? Plus Patch 1.1.2 Tested!
- Thread starter GrayChild
- Start date
He laughed because ~30fps in a 60fps mode is terrible. If anything the OP made it seem like 33fps vs 30fps is somehow "smooth":
"Series X release puts in a smoother overall 60fps experience next to the PS5 consoles"
33fps is not a "60fps experience"
He was laughing because Series X running at 33fps is also bad. He wasn't making it seem like just Series X is shite, he kept saying also.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sawyer was a bit more eloquent. I think this is
ethomaz
It's an overall smoother experience in comparison, sticks closer to 60 more often and has a higher average. Doesn't say it's a locked 60 or that there aren't drops.
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Bojji
Member
He doesn't even need his eyes to measure fps, they have hardware and software for that.
DF was wrong about things in the past, humans make mistakes. This is normal stuff, they still are very good at their jobs compared to others.
Of course it's bad but it's still better than PS5. And with system level VRR and LFC in 120Hz container that 33FPS feels smoother than 33FPS on PS5.
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Shifty1897
Member
It's a Nier Automata situation.
I think even if Konami paid Virtuous to work on a performance patch (they won't do this), Virtuous is physically incapable of improving performance without dropping resolution to PS3 levels. Our only hope is a PS6 (Pro?) to run this at a locked 60 fps.
I think even if Konami paid Virtuous to work on a performance patch (they won't do this), Virtuous is physically incapable of improving performance without dropping resolution to PS3 levels. Our only hope is a PS6 (Pro?) to run this at a locked 60 fps.
it's horseshit. The PS5 Pro console doesn't go into the 30fps range. It says consoles.
Don't give a shit about VRR LFC or which is better. Just letting you know why he's laughing and it's not how he "framed it" as if the others don't hit low fps and no the Pro version is better so it's still horseshit using consoles plural. The Pro doesn't hit 33fps lows. Tried to warn people about the 60fps PC cap too before the info got out:
Lo and behold I don't see Alex saying people wasted money on a 240hz monitor or a high end GPU to be capped at 60fps with visuals that aren't even that great though. I have a 240hz monitor and a 5090, total waste of money if it was based on this game alone.
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Bojji
Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
PS5 Pro is absolutely going in the 30fps range. Hell, it's performing worse on average than base PS5 in the jungle areas, the only places it pulls ahead is indoors.
From this video:
From their dedicated PS5 video:
You don't need to bat defense for someone elses dumb console warrior rhetoric.
The proof is in the video content and the commentary.
SX is, on average, the smoothest performing console version. The VRR and LFC complement it by making it more tolerable on supported displays, thus making it the smoothest console version to play.
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Xbox 360 slim
Member
Where's the Cerny memes at?
It's performing slightly lower in the high 50-60fps range but when it hits those low framerate sections on XSX and base PS5 (not those momentary drops with barrel explosions) its performing better while looking much better too. It doesn't really hit the 30fps range. Maybe 37fps.
Diego Brasil
had no dumb console warrior rhetoric though. He didn't try to frame it as if one was bad and the other wasn't like
Bojji
tried to suggest. He said it's also bad, because if anything the OP made it seem like there was a "smoother 60fps experience" but we're here talking about 2fps in the 30fps range, that's not really a 60fps experience at all. Plus the Series X has 100ms frametime spikes that are far worse than that 3fps difference for smoothness but I guess you must have missed that.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Two different posters have shown you a picture of the PS5 Pro version hitting 32fps, how are you this oblivious? When it drops, it drops just as bad, if not worse, than the other consoles.
DF have also said and shown in multiple videos that Pro is, in-fact, running worse on average than base PS in all the jungle areas, the only places it runs better is the indoors which are few and far between in this game anyway.
I'm getting the feeling you haven't watched any of DF's coverage and are solely basing your opinions on Diego's posts.
"We're" not talking about '2fps in the 30fps range', we're talking about what the video is saying as to which console version feels the smoothest to play.
Cherry picking the single worst drop in the video and doing '
' is dumb console fanboy rhetoric, especially as he's done the exact same in other threads as well.Again, feel free to stop defending him.
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How am I oblivious to the barrel explosion drop when I specifically mention it. Are you oblivious to what I actually said regarding the consistent low framerate sections?
You're showing the 50-60fps range I mentioned being lower on Pro. Do the underwater sections for example where you have 35fps for more than a second and you will see what I mean.DF have also said and shown in multiple videos that Pro is, in-fact, running worse on average than base PS in all the jungle areas, the only places it runs better is the indoors which are few and far between in this game anyway.
I'm getting the feeling you haven't watched any of DF's coverage and are solely basing your opinions on Diego's posts.
It's laughing at the absolute joke performance of this game despite talk of a "60fps experience", not fanboy rhetoric. Again much like your video summary you completely ignored the 100ms frametime spikes on Series X that are bad and only on Series X, that's your fanboy coming out. Why did you skip that in your summary? Feel free to add it and stop stanning or at least taking issue with me mentioning that Diego just made it clear the game also performs very shit on Series X with those screens and made it clear it's not better elsewhere (on PS5) either. if pointing out those bad framedrops is "cherry picking" then so are the drops on PS5 because it's the exact same sections that see very similar drops. He just said they're shit here too and that the "smoother 60fps experience" is just that, "also bad 3x laugh emoji".Cherry picking the single worst drop in the video and doing '
Again, feel free to stop defending him.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Just finished watching DF's video and god damn it this game is never getting fixed on consoles. Not only is the framerate all over the place, there seems to be no rhyme or reason to where each console decides to drop frames. For the Pro to be dropping so much despite having such a low base DRS range tells me also that something is very wrong with the code. Then theres the global illumination which seems totally broken. Sometimes it works on ps5 but isn't working on SX in that patch of grass. Other times its working on SX but not on ps5 or Pro.
We got the first update and nothing changed but this is Konami and Virtuos? Look at Oblivion, still fundamentally busted on console. Konami isn't one to pay their contracted studios to fox problems either as seen by Silent Hill 2. This is just depressing to realize theres no good option and won't be "fixed" until PS6!
Even if it is fixed on PS6 via BC, the dynamic reaolution range is so low it'll be perpetually stuck at a low res anyway.
We got the first update and nothing changed but this is Konami and Virtuos? Look at Oblivion, still fundamentally busted on console. Konami isn't one to pay their contracted studios to fox problems either as seen by Silent Hill 2. This is just depressing to realize theres no good option and won't be "fixed" until PS6!
Even if it is fixed on PS6 via BC, the dynamic reaolution range is so low it'll be perpetually stuck at a low res anyway.
willothedog
Member
Is that for willo?
Don't see why you're digging. you have a point to make about something then say it.
Bojji
Member
Based on DF video of PC version game is CPU limited when there is alarm state and lots of enemies on screen, I think consoles are suffering from this and drops to 45-50fps when that happens are probably unavoidable on UE5 version they use.
On the other hand most of the time game is GPU limited so Pro can be locked to 60fps for stealth players, but of course that means ditching PSSR and few other tweaks.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
All the under water sections are different locations, they show the dock where you can snipe The End for Xbox, where the lowest underwater drop is seen, but don't show it for either PS5 or Pro.
We've already established that the PS5 Pro goes in the 30's when under water as well, there's no clip in any of their videos to show the same comparable area (in front of The End's dock).
Regardless, it's irrelevant, the commentary in the video plainly states that in like for like tested areas, Pro can be up to 5, 7 FPS behind the base PS5 on average, a single second or two where it's a frames ahead is a completely moot thing to hang ones hat on when the average favors the base PS5.
I'm beginning to think he's your alt looking at this strong defense, lol.
We don't need to cherry pick, Diego is doing his best to try and make it seem like 'it's not better elsewhere', whereas the DF content makes it clear otherwise.
Is it a *massive* difference? No. Is it a doubling of performance? No. It is, however, the smoothest way to play on console right now.
The worst part here is that in almost all comparisons where all three are shown in the same spot, the PS5 Pro is the worst performer. Barring the one indoor area DF show.
It's a poor showing for PS5 Pro in this game's case.
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CrimsonTide
Gold Member
This is bullshit. We depend on you for this. We don't have the attention span to watch their content and consume it for ourselvesA new module to the simulation.
So here's what you're gonna do. I'm not asking. I'm telling.
You are going to watch the video. Take notes. Get up off your ass. Post a detailed breakdown of the video and let everyone know.
You won't say another word until the info is released
It will be released by you in no less than 40 minutes
Thank you
- GAF
Edit: you did it earlier I see. Be thankful. I rest My case
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CrimsonTide
Gold Member
Baffling how my $280 second have Base PS5 trumps the $800 pro.All the under water sections are different locations, they show the dock where you can snipe The End for Xbox, where the lowest underwater drop is seen, but don't show it for either PS5 or Pro.
We've already established that the PS5 Pro goes in the 30's when under water as well, there's no clip in any of their videos to show the same comparable area (in front of The End's dock).
Regardless, it's irrelevant, the commentary in the video plainly states that in like for like tested areas, Pro can be up to 5, 7 FPS behind the base PS5 on average, a single second or two where it's a frames ahead is a completely moot thing to hang ones hat on when the average favors the base PS5.
I'm beginning to think he's your alt looking at this strong defense, lol.
We don't need to cherry pick, Diego is doing his best to try and make it seem like 'it's not better elsewhere', whereas the DF content makes it clear otherwise.
Is it a *massive* difference? No. Is it a doubling of performance? No. It is, however, the smoothest way to play on console right now.
The worst part here is that in almost all comparisons where all three are shown in the same spot, the PS5 Pro is the worst performer. Barring the one indoor area DF show.
It's a poor showing for PS5 Pro in this game's case.
I'm baffled. You're baffled. The world is baffled.
Barakov
Member
This has always been your jobNo one took up on the summary?
- Visual achievements impress, even on Series S.
- Frame rate on console hasn't been given quite as much care as the visuals.
- Base PS5 and Pro waver between 40 to 60 during combat with drops to 30's as well.
- The game has received a new patch but it didn't really seem to improve any console outside of margin of error changes
Series X:
- Broadly match for base PS5 visually. Same Performance/Graphics mode
- Shadow, foliage, volumetric etc are identical
- Some aspects of GI like shading under grass can change between the two on a per-scene basis
- In some tests PS5 shows thicker shading, in some tests Series X shows thicker shading
- Though in most cases they are identical in how shading is deployed
- Series X runs at higher DRS bounds than base PS5 (eg Perf. mode is 1152p vs 1080p on PS5)
- The Quality mode's max bound is the same but SX's lowest is 1152p vs PS5's 1080p
- Series X has a general performance lead in tested areas, running closer to 60fps
- The area-by-area tweaks may be a contributing factor along with inherent tflop advantage
- A margin of 5 to 6fps advantage observed in most cases, though two exception areas DF observed that showed one area with base PS5 pulling ahead and one with PS5 Pro pulling ahead
- Despite that, a lot of areas still show drops from 60 even on SX with explosive barrels showing drops to mid 30's like PS5, same for diving under water.
- Though Xbox's bigger VRR range helps cover the drops more than PS5's
- Quality mode is virtually identical to PS5, including the uneven frame-paced 30 even when locked
- Similar drops seen in explosive barrels and swimming under water etc as well
Series S:
- Single 30fps mode, which is also unevenly frame-paced
- More frequent drops under 30 compared to PS5/SX's Quality mode as well
- Sadly, no alternates, no high performance modes here
- Resolution delta is between 540p to 1080p which can cause output to look noisy and pixelated
- Often not enough pixels to reconstruct a clean image
- Transparencies and various effects run at lower resolution
- Texture quality, at least, is mostly the same as SX.
- More pop-in and GI quality is also reduced in outdoor areas, indoors are mostly identical.
Verdict:
- SX turns out almost identically to base PS5 with higher average FPS being the saving grace
- Series S version can't really be recommended over any other version at this moment
- DF praises the Bomberman mode for how distinct from the PS5 Snake vs Money mode
Yeah I mentioned the 37fps. They show PS5 vs PS5 Pro clips in similar areas. That you can check in the old vid.
It's not a single second or two. It's the opposite that I'm mentioning. The barrel explosions are single seconds with a 1fps or 2fps difference and yet that's what you keep mentioning as "shown by two posters". The underwater sections are more than a couple of seconds and the base PS5/XSX 30fps gameplay sections I'm referring to. The average gameplay segments are not in the 30fps range at all.
Regardless, it's irrelevant, the commentary in the video plainly states that in like for like tested areas, Pro can be up to 5, 7 FPS behind the base PS5 on average, a single second or two where it's a frames ahead is a completely moot thing to hang ones hat on when the average favors the base PS5.
There is no "Strong defence" needed and he isn't my alt. Just said he mentioned it sucks on Series X and specifically mentioned it's bad on PS5 too so he didn't try to frame it like it wasn't bad elsewhere despite being accused of that. That's all. Still ignoring the fact that you failed to mention the 100ms frametime spikes on Series X though when making your video summary.
Yes in DF gameplay segment it is slightly lower but we are talking about the 50-60fps range here not those base/XSX 30fps segments. Pro doesn't look like a blurry mess compared to the XSX and base PS5 either in those 50-60 segments. Look at those rocks in your bridge screenshot. Look at the bush with missing shadows. To be honest with VRR I'd rather the better IQ on Pro since for those 50-60 sections that 5fps difference means a lot less than those blurry textures and missing shadows.The worst part here is that in almost all comparisons where all three are shown in the same spot, the PS5 Pro is the worst performer. Barring the one indoor area DF show.
It's a poor showing for PS5 Pro in this game's case.
Again what are you showing here? Nobody is arguing that the PS5 version doesn't have a lower fps when the base or XSX are in the 50-60 range. They upped the IQ at the expense of it in a single mode which is stupid of them and PSSR adds that couple of ms in frametime. Nobody is arguing it isn't a silly decision to have only one mode on Pro with less than locked 60fps.
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Best value in gaming, btw.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So what are we even arguing about? We've all come to the same conclusion.
PS5 Pro is, currently, the worst performing version and SX is the best with PS5 slotting in the middle.
A specific swimming segment running a few frames north or south on any of the 3 doesn't change the overall averages.
The immediate fix to the problem is for Konami/Virtuos to issue a patch removing PSSR like Bloober did with SH2, from that we know it's entirely possible to do. They can't exactly scale the game any lower, it's already running a lower pixel count than the base PS5 and less pixels would mean less for PSSR to work with.
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CrimsonTide
Gold Member
Dude acts like you fabricated the data or have some vendetta out against an $800 console.So what are we even arguing about? We've all come to the same conclusion.
PS5 Pro is, currently, the worst performing version and SX is the best with PS5 slotting in the middle.
A specific swimming segment running a few frames north or south on any of the 3 doesn't change the overall averages.
The immediate fix to the problem is for Konami/Virtuos to issue a patch removing PSSR like Bloober did with SH2, from that we know it's entirely possible to do.
Hilarious
Kacho
Gold Member
Console warring has been reduced to the difference between 2-3fps.
That said, the $750 console performing the worst is discussion worthy.
We were arguing that the PS5 Pro doesn't run at 30fps. You tried to say that the Pro runs lower than the base and XSX when I said this. I said "not for those 30fps sections, for the 50-60fps sections sure". You then said the "XSX was in a special section thats why it was low 35fps we can't compare it". I said there are sections you can compare between PS5 and Pro even if you want to go by DF videos only. The Pro offers better framerate in the low framerate sections I mentioned:So what are we even arguing about? We've all come to the same conclusion.
PS5 Pro is, currently, the worst performing version and SX is the best with PS5 slotting in the middle.
A specific swimming segment running a few frames north or south on any of the 3 doesn't change the overall averages.
The immediate fix to the problem is for Konami/Virtuos to issue a patch removing PSSR like Bloober did with SH2, from that we know it's entirely possible to do. They can't exactly scale the game any lower, it's already running a lower pixel count than the base PS5 and less pixels would mean less for PSSR to work with.
Now I don't know what you're arguing though especially about removing PSSR. Pro offers much better image quality with PSSR than XSX or base PS5. It retains the higher effects of the Quality mode in a ~60fps mode albeit slightly lower fps with these effects. You can see the better IQ best in your own screenshots, look at the bush and rocks:
Now was it daft to have only 1 mode on Pro with higher settings and not offer a higher res Quality mode or a locked 60fps Performance mode. Sure, but nobody was arguing it wasn't. The PS5 Pro mode runs higher res than the PS5 base performance mode resolution. I was only saying the PS5 Pro doesn't really run in the 30s. The base and XSX do more often.
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Imtjnotu
Member
No one took up on the summary?
- Visual achievements impress, even on Series S.
- Frame rate on console hasn't been given quite as much care as the visuals.
- Base PS5 and Pro waver between 40 to 60 during combat with drops to 30's as well.
- The game has received a new patch but it didn't really seem to improve any console outside of margin of error changes
Series X:
- Broadly match for base PS5 visually. Same Performance/Graphics mode
- Shadow, foliage, volumetric etc are identical
- Some aspects of GI like shading under grass can change between the two on a per-scene basis
- In some tests PS5 shows thicker shading, in some tests Series X shows thicker shading
- Though in most cases they are identical in how shading is deployed
- Series X runs at higher DRS bounds than base PS5 (eg Perf. mode is 1152p vs 1080p on PS5)
- The Quality mode's max bound is the same but SX's lowest is 1152p vs PS5's 1080p
- Series X has a general performance lead in tested areas, running closer to 60fps
- The area-by-area tweaks may be a contributing factor along with inherent tflop advantage
- A margin of 5 to 6fps advantage observed in most cases, though two exception areas DF observed that showed one area with base PS5 pulling ahead and one with PS5 Pro pulling ahead
- Despite that, a lot of areas still show drops from 60 even on SX with explosive barrels showing drops to mid 30's like PS5, same for diving under water.
- Though Xbox's bigger VRR range helps cover the drops more than PS5's
- Quality mode is virtually identical to PS5, including the uneven frame-paced 30 even when locked
- Similar drops seen in explosive barrels and swimming under water etc as well
Series S:
- Single 30fps mode, which is also unevenly frame-paced
- More frequent drops under 30 compared to PS5/SX's Quality mode as well
- Sadly, no alternates, no high performance modes here
- Resolution delta is between 540p to 1080p which can cause output to look noisy and pixelated
- Often not enough pixels to reconstruct a clean image
- Transparencies and various effects run at lower resolution
- Texture quality, at least, is mostly the same as SX.
- More pop-in and GI quality is also reduced in outdoor areas, indoors are mostly identical.
Verdict:
- SX turns out almost identically to base PS5 with higher average FPS being the saving grace
- Series S version can't really be recommended over any other version at this moment
- DF praises the Bomberman mode for how distinct from the PS5 Snake vs Money mode
DAMNIT I thought you were dead.
DIG UP THE BODY BOYS
adamsapple
IS STILL ALIVE
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ok.
I don't know what else to say to you. You're laser focused on the one area where the Pro doesn't drop the lowest, while ignoring the direct commentary from DF stating that in pretty much all tested areas, barring some exceptions, Pro is often 5, 7 behind the base console. I'm acknowledging that, yes, the Pro isn't the lowest performer in that specific test-case, yes you're absolutely correct.
Individual instances don't make up for the overall averages. That's about the crux of it and that's about all that's left for me to say.
The Pro console being the worst performer among the three being compared sure is something.
Sony doesn't seem to be bothered by the odd PS5 Pro cases that come out not so infrequently, seemingly PSSR overhead related. It feels like they've kinda resigned and are waiting for FSR4 to take over next year.
Radical_3d
Member
What a joke is to overload a futuristic CPU with logic from 20 years ago. UE5 can't die soon enough.
"ALARM!"
PS2: "Ok, I can handle this…"
PS5:
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
AKA my Base PS5 slim is better.
No reason for him to be angry. None
Now it's all up to AI to make it better and maybe it will happen lol
It's not really something at all. There have been times where the Series S has been the better "performer" than the XSX and PS5 in the 60fps performance modes of games. Except the Series S was running with lower settings and poorer IQ. It's no different here. It would have been nice if Virtuos gave the option to forego those bells and whistles for a locked 60fps mode instead of all effects in single mode with an average 5-7 fps deficit but here we are. The performance difference isn't that big to warrant it I guess. Same with From and their XSX and PS5 games. You can play the PS4 version on PS5 at locked 60fps but the PS5 and XSX version are not locked 60. It's a developer choice mostly about how hard they want to stick to 60fps but they choose to increase IQ and effects for those drops.
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
You care WAY TOO MUCH over a few frames over 1 game. Just relax. It's not that deep.
Your issue is with Konami and Sony and not
adamsapple
Just calm down
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
Also is it really worth it if a console costing $800 plays the same game. And maybe looks slightly better when you pause it. Screenshot it in 4k. Zoom in.
And yet it suffocates and vomits all over itself fps wise compared to weaker hardware?
No human simply sitting back and playing will notice the visual "upgrade". It's sad that the beast hardware can't HANDLE a minimal upgrade visually without choking on it fps wise. It's laughable to me
And yet it suffocates and vomits all over itself fps wise compared to weaker hardware?
No human simply sitting back and playing will notice the visual "upgrade". It's sad that the beast hardware can't HANDLE a minimal upgrade visually without choking on it fps wise. It's laughable to me
viveks86
Member
We truly underestimated the power of Emotion Engine. Feel the emotions, without the drama.What a joke is to overload a futuristic CPU with logic from 20 years ago. UE5 can't die soon enough.
"ALARM!"
PS2: "Ok, I can handle this…"
PS5:
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Radical_3d
Member
Bojji
Member
What a joke is to overload a futuristic CPU with logic from 20 years ago. UE5 can't die soon enough.
"ALARM!"
PS2: "Ok, I can handle this…"
PS5:
I wish this was the case. I remember myself in 2004: "Holy shit, this runs like crap! And MGS2 was so smooth..."
Radical_3d
Member
Yeah, but to repeat the mistakes 20 years later is not acceptable. Today's CPUs run circles around the anemic clusterfuck of processors that the PS2 called the CPU. This is a lazy, nostalgia bait, cheap, cash grab and I'm not in it for it. Also the PS2 version was aiming 30. Dips to 20s aren't as dramatic like dips to 20s while aiming for 60. And yeah, I bet Virtuos would have achieve this "feat" even with the best engine in the market but is the "why is it when something happens it is always you three?" meme over and over again.I wish this was the case. I remember myself in 2004: "Holy shit, this runs like crap! And MGS2 was so smooth..."
Everybody is calm except you who likes to overreact.You care WAY TOO MUCH over a few frames over 1 game. Just relax. It's not that deep.
Your issue is with Konami and Sony and not
Just calm down
bender
What time is it?
Your issue is with Konami and Sony and not
The issue lies with Virtous who are dog water when it comes to optimizing.
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
I like to overreact? I'm pretty chill and calm always and just having fun here. Lol
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
Hey. I'm a fan of dog water. Hot dog water. Think that's a Limp Bizkit reference lol
Seems most devs suck at optimizing. Regardless what platform it is. They all are shit lol
memoryman3
Member
Series X besting PS5 is starting to become a trend with these latest titles. AC Shadows, Space Marine, DOOM, Wukong and now this. The tools finally came through?
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bender
What time is it?
Hey. I'm a fan of dog water. Hot dog water. Think that's a Limp Bizkit reference lol
Seems most devs suck at optimizing. Regardless what platform it is. They all are shit lol
Chocolate starfish too?
Delivering a performance mode that runs at sub-60FPS is terrible in the first place and compounded by allowing that preset to go below the bounds of PS5's VRR capabilities. Performance mode indeed.
CrimsonTide
Gold Member
Man. That album was amazing. Can damn near quote it
Yeah, kind of. At least that's the impression I've got with my interactions with you and your posts.
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CrimsonTide
Gold Member
A) once
B) defending myself from some moron saying I'm "farming" accounts by simply giving games away
C) glad you keep up with me. More should. I give Away tons of games.