Direct X 11.1 is Windows 8 exclusive, no plans to retrofit

Green Biker Dude said:
anyone who thinks microsoft doesn't just want things their way is delusional... and their way is the microsoft store, taking as much money from developers as possible while ensuring they remain locked down to their system

also, anyone claiming we don't have to worry because "it's optional" and "everything still werks!" is as dumb as brick or has no idea how software development works. microsoft can't just invalidate all current tools because not only would that be stupid and cause an outrage, it would also incentive people moving away to linux. and besides, no company would ever do something like that. it simply doesn't make sense.

the new windows 8 apis are currently optional, while the old ones are deprecated. ms will continue to reimplement windows functionality, some due to necessity, and it will only work with the new apis. eventually, you will be forced to use them. whether that's windows 9 or 10, it doesn't matter. you can't escape the windows store. there is no incentive for microsoft not to dump billions in it either, because once you're forced to use the new interfaces, you can't escape the ms tax.

furthermore, microsoft is focusing on pc gaming, and for 2 good reasons: first, they pretty much beat sony already. they have the preferred system for 3rd party games and they can outspend sony. they're not a threat, and nintendo has shown to be unable to compete for the same audience. second, console gaming is shrinking while pc gaming is booming, thanks mostly to dd and steam, which is ms next target, after having basically stomped sony.

as bad as this can sound for people who were mostly pc gamers during the 90s or have no linux knowledge, supporting linux distribution(s) is the best alternative in the long run.
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This is nothing but pure paranoia.
 
bdizzle said:
Lol some of you guys really overstate the importance of PC gaming to MS. Even without directx MS would still be a juggernaut because businesses are entrenched in the MS platform. Active Directory, Exchange, SQL Server, SharePoint, Office and a host of other 3rd party applications run on Microsoft platform. Thats what brings in billions every quarter for Microsoft. Not the handful of consumers using the platform to play PC games.
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Gamers and PC enthusiasts are the IT department for friends and family. When they leave an OS they will always suggest the same to friends and family. MS wasnt going to own the OS market forever, and all this kind of stuff does is bring that end a step closer.
 
I H8 Memes said:
Gamers and PC enthusiasts are the IT department for friends and family. When they leave an OS they will always suggest the same to friends and family. MS wasnt going to own the OS market forever, and all this kind of stuff does is bring that end a step closer.
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No, "family members" type users will never use linux even if those enthusiasts handheld them through the installation. They want something that works with any software they want to buy/use and comes pre-installed when buying hardware because it makes them feel more comfortable purchasing a mainstream products supported by a well known corporation.

Even in the hypothetical of MS locking down windows, it would take a whole lot more than PC enthusiasts moving to linux (a stretch itself) to move the casual computer user to it. I'm certainly not advocating MS doing so or even predicting it, however I'm trying to spell out the reality of the situation.
 
Tallshortman said:
No, "family members" type users will never use linux even if those enthusiasts handheld them through the installation. They want something that works with any software they want to buy/use and comes pre-installed when buying hardware because it makes them feel more comfortable purchasing a mainstream products supported by a well known corporation.

Even in the hypothetical of MS locking down windows, it would take a whole lot more than PC enthusiasts moving to linux (a stretch itself) to move the casual computer user to it.
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I don't know, Ubuntu is looking to try and fill that role and has been steadily gaining ground, not just in the enthusiast market. Though it's mostly 3rd world and developing countries right now, as it gains a larger market share in the world, it will likely creepy back into the western world. The majority of users only care about simplicity, while they would like to take all of their programs with them forever, we're seeing it's not impossible to coax them out of it (see tablets)
 
Tallshortman said:
No, "family members" type users will never use linux even if those enthusiasts handheld them through the installation. They want something that works with any software they want to buy/use and comes pre-installed when buying hardware because it makes them feel more comfortable purchasing a mainstream products supported by a well known corporation.

Even in the hypothetical of MS locking down windows, it would take a whole lot more than PC enthusiasts moving to linux (a stretch itself) to move the casual computer user to it. I'm certainly not advocating MS doing so or even predicting it, however I'm trying to spell out the reality of the situation.
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I didn't mention linux. I'm talking about legitimate competition in the OS market. Probably from google. I actually dont care who a competing OS comes from, as long as it isn't MS or Apple, I'm ready to switch to any competing OS with a supported gaming API.


And I do believe a liux derivative could easily compete with a MS OS if it came with a good and easy to use installer and full software support from 3rd parties. I suspect at this point most software companies would look forward to getting away from MS rather then wait for the inevitable, which is MS forcing them to sell software through their app store for 30% cut.
 
Timedog said:
Why are we only at DX 11.1? This is bullshit and also probably a computer virus. I figured we'd be at least at DX 16 by now.
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DirectX 9 man....

Seriously, The popularity of Windows XP and the success of the XBox 360 both pretty well solidified DX9 as the defacto standard well beyond its original expected lifespan. There's still a lot of games that use DX9 as the bare minimum just because they have XBox 360 counterparts.

When DX10 arrived it somewhat bombed. Very few developers supported DX10 because it was Vista exclusive. Nobody wanted to abandon the huge XP user base at that period in time. DX11 has actually been pretty successful so far with the popularity of Windows 7. It was also backwards compatible with Vista, extending the userbase across two different OS's (three now, since Windows 8 will still be backwards compatible with DX11).

But if DX11.1 ends up staying exclusive to Windows8 it will probably end up with the same fate as DX10. Not many developers will support it compared to DX11, and it will probably be quickly abandoned and replaced for whatever version of DX the next generation XBox will use.
 
Why not bump the number version up to 12? Okay, they're not obligated to backport to their previous OS. But it seems like it's just going to cause confusion when people see a game that requires DirectX11.1, then go buy a DirectX11 card that works for Windows 7 or Vista then it doesn't work.

If you're going to lock DirectX in step with the OS, then increase the DX major version number along with it.
 
FyreWulff said:
Why not bump the number version up to 12? Okay, they're not obligated to backport to their previous OS. But it seems like it's just going to cause confusion when people see a game that requires DirectX11.1, then go buy a DirectX11 card that works for Windows 7 or Vista then it doesn't work.

If you're going to lock DirectX in step with the OS, then increase the DX major version number along with it.
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11.1 implies (currently) that it's not a mandatory update and thus no games should require it (I can't remember a single game requiring 10.1)
 
Somehow this threads boiled down again to Metro Apps and Store and how they are not obstructing Desktop apps and could be ignored at best.
I'm using Windows 8 and liking it. I'm using some Metro apps and many Desktop apps, mostly games.
But Windows 8 wants you to choose one and go with it, they didn't remove Desktop apps, but with UAC popping up every second, and no Administrator account they lost some capability. Disabling UAC and using an Administrator account breaks many Metro apps by design.
And ignoring Metro yet getting Windows 8 doesn't make any sense.

Using a Windows 8 exclusive game is a good way to kill Windows 7 and force upgrades. And hearing the massive voice in community telling that "it's their firm and they'll do whatever they please" or "there won't be an effect so let them"; I think I understand why we are locked with MS.
 
Sorry for being late, but I just had to.

Drazgul said:
9ltP5.gif
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This GIF just made me crack up like nothing.
Thank you, thank you whoever made this. Shall you be praised with eternal gratitude.
Just perfect. I love you, NeoGAF, I just love your meltdowns.
Always spawning the best gaming-related GIFs.
 
Mavromatis said:
Using a Windows 8 exclusive game is a good way to kill Windows 7 and force upgrades. And hearing the massive voice in community telling that "it's their firm and they'll do whatever they please" or "there won't be an effect so let them"; I think I understand why we are locked with MS.
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I agree with that. I think Microsoft is on a strategy now where they are going to release a new OS at least 2-3 years apart just to avoid having another Windows XP on their hands. XP was a major success, yes, but they left it out on the market place for so long that it actually hurt their sales margins more than it helped them in the long run. XP sales eventually arched downwards because the market became to oversaturated with XP users. And when Vista came out, it died an early death because of the large XP user base who didn't want to move on. Most PC users were so content with XP that they didn't bother upgrading to Vista... people still kept using XP up until the launch of Windows 7. Which was 9 years XP's original release.

I think MS wants to try releasing new OS's in shorter time frames to keep people from holding on to one OS for to long. They want to perpetuate more sales through smaller incremental upgrades, really.
 
Osiris said:
Don't worry, once the facts become undeniable they will retconn their opinions to "It was always obvious this was what they were doing! - It's for the best, MS is wise and they are securing the platform from malware" or some other shitty justification.
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I never dispute it's what Microsoft want to do, I've just never had anyone explain to me how they can get developers and consumers on board to make it this evil plan a success. How do you get devs to drop DX 11 (and Win 7 and 8 support) when the closed OS comes out?

They couldn't get devs on board with DX10 with vista. they couldn't get consumers on board vista with Halo 2.

Of course they want to get a cut of every piece of software sold, just as they wanted us all to pay to play online on PC. That didn't work out for them though, because believe it or not, Microsoft being 100% on board with wanting to make something happen isn't enough to make it happen.

That's why it's all 'the sky is falling' nonsense. Who is going to give up their Steam collection and move to windows 9 if it's a closed OS? Which developer is going to drop Steam support to be Windows store exclusive?
 
KojiKnight said:
I don't know, Ubuntu is looking to try and fill that role and has been steadily gaining ground, not just in the enthusiast market. Though it's mostly 3rd world and developing countries right now, as it gains a larger market share in the world, it will likely creepy back into the western world. The majority of users only care about simplicity, while they would like to take all of their programs with them forever, we're seeing it's not impossible to coax them out of it (see tablets)
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Last time I read up about market share, Linux user percentage share for the non-server market has actually fallen since it peaked during the netbook surge so...
 
Tallshortman said:
Last time I read up about market share, Linux user percentage share for the non-server market has actually fallen since it peaked during the netbook surge so...
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With Windows 8 ignoring the netbook market I think Linux may see a slight growth on market share. But they need something big, like games to get some real share. And Steam might offer this, if they invest in ReactX or some similar project adapting DirectX to Linux thus porting existing games and creating a future possibility. But I doubt they'll try that venture fearing MS' wrath and lawsuits.
 
Oh MS. I was skipping 11.1 anyway. I don't remember missing out on too many 10.1 exclusive games when I was rocking dx10 cards.
 
Question for the Windows 8 people. I upgraded my daughters Windows 7 system to Windows 8 as it is MUCH easier for a 5 year old to jump straight to what she wants with a single tap/click (and she loves the bright colorful boxes).


Anyway, do I need to download a Windows Media player "APP" for it to function like 7?

I've paid zero attention to Windows 8 and don't even know if there is a Media Player App.

When I drop her movie CD's in the tray the system just sits there. No auto launch happens. If I try to launch her movies from the D: drive it just sits and spins. The only way I'm getting her interactive movie DVDs to load is by using VLC player....this is absolutely retarded.


Outside of that Windows 8 is great for my 5 year old. I'll stick to Windows 7 on my gaming systems.
 
shandy706 said:
Question for the Windows 8 people. I upgraded my daughters Windows 7 system to Windows 8 as it is MUCH easier for a 5 year old to jump straight to what she wants with a single tap/click (and she loves the bright colorful boxes).

However, do I need to download a Windows Media player "APP" for it to function like 7?

I've paid zero attention to Windows 8 and don't even know if there is a Media Player App.

When I drop her movie CD's in the tray the system just sits there. No auto launch happens. If I try to launch her movies from the D: drive it just sits and spins. The only way I'm getting her interactive movie DVDs to load is by using VLC player....this is absolutely retarded.


Outside of that Windows 8 is great for my 5 year old. I'll stick to Windows 7 on my gaming systems.
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There's no DVD playback on Win8 unless you buy an app from MS from the Windows store as far as I know.
 
Mario007 said:
There's no DVD playback on Win8 unless you buy an app from MS from the Windows store as far as I know.
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you know wrong.

Windows 8 does not have built in DVD codecs like Windows 7 did, but you do not need to buy an app from the MS store. it's like it was on Windows XP. when you buy something like Power DVD it will install the codecs to allow DVD playback OS wide. this software can be bought just the same as always, either in brick and mortar stores, or as a download from a website or whatever.

ymmv said:
K-Lite Codec Pack is free.
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and awful. http://shark007.net/ thank me later.
 
shandy706 said:
Question for the Windows 8 people. I upgraded my daughters Windows 7 system to Windows 8 as it is MUCH easier for a 5 year old to jump straight to what she wants with a single tap/click (and she loves the bright colorful boxes).


Anyway, do I need to download a Windows Media player "APP" for it to function like 7?

I've paid zero attention to Windows 8 and don't even know if there is a Media Player App.

When I drop her movie CD's in the tray the system just sits there. No auto launch happens. If I try to launch her movies from the D: drive it just sits and spins. The only way I'm getting her interactive movie DVDs to load is by using VLC player....this is absolutely retarded.


Outside of that Windows 8 is great for my 5 year old. I'll stick to Windows 7 on my gaming systems.
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No native DVD support, you have to get Windows Media Centre, which will eventually cost money. Thankfully, it's free until January.
 
This changes nothing. It will take at least 2-3 years until DX11 is fully adopted anyway. And then most people will have upgraded to Win8. Then Win9 soon will be released.
 
SolarPowered said:
Wait wut

wtf wtffffffffffffffffffffff

I don't understand how or why they would take that away.
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Microsoft decided that people will eventually stop playing DVDs and use Netflix instead, probably before Windows 9 is out.

No, me neither, but what is done is done. And hey, the upgrade with the DVD codec is free until January, so early adopters don't miss out.
 
Delusibeta said:
Microsoft decided that people will eventually stop playing DVDs and use Netflix instead, probably before Windows 9 is out.

No, me neither, but what is done is done. And hey, the upgrade with the DVD codec is free until January, so early adopters don't miss out.
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The reason is simple... money. It costs $5+ per copy of Windows to license mpeg2 codecs.
 
tci said:
Or you know, download a simple player for free for desktop ...
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VLC won't do it?

Reiko said:
In this topic. We learn about Windows Media Player Classic.
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ITT: ardent, unapologietic defenders attempt to obfuscate clear issues with decisions that have been made regarding built-in features. Should people really have to search for software to make the DVD drive that has worked in and come with computers for about a decade work? Gonnasayno. Butlet'splaystupid.
 
DX 12 i could understand, but DX11.1? that sounds like an update to DX11 which should be available to anyone using DX11
 
Dreams-Visions said:
VLC won't do it?
ITT: ardent, unapologietic defenders attempt to obfuscate clear issues with decisions that have been made regarding built-in features. Should people really have to search for software to make the DVD drive that has worked in and come with computers for about a decade work? Gonnasayno. Butlet'splaystupid.
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EU thinks they should be allowed to bundle browsers.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
VLC won't do it?



ITT: ardent, unapologietic defenders attempt to obfuscate clear issues with decisions that have been made regarding built-in features. Should people really have to search for software to make the DVD drive that has worked in and come with computers for about a decade work? Gonnasayno. Butlet'splaystupid.
Click to expand...

I never use Windows Media Player... No matter what OS I'm running.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
ITT: ardent, unapologietic defenders attempt to obfuscate clear issues with decisions that have been made regarding built-in features. Should people really have to search for software to make the DVD drive that has worked in and come with computers for about a decade work? Gonnasayno. Butlet'splaystupid.
Click to expand...
DVD playback has not been standard in Windows OSs for 'about a decade'. only Windows 7 had it built in, and even then not every version of Windows 7 had it. it's a shame they cut the feature, absolutely, but lets not go mad and make out like it was standard for three times longer than it was.
 
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