You're misunderstanding what people are telling you. DX12 is meant to give PC developers the same kind of environment console devs have always had. X1 already allows low level development.
DirectX 12 adds a 20% gpu boost to the PC version of Fable
- Thread starter RyudBoy
- Start date
You're misunderstanding what people are telling you. DX12 is meant to give PC developers the same kind of environment console devs have always had. X1 already allows low level development.
Nothing there sounds confusing though. The confusion came from what was said at the conference itself.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I don't know why anyone would be confused by this. They're clearly talking about 20% on the PC.
That's because you're confusing "feature set" with "performance." They are not the same thing.
Switching to DX12 will provide performance gains for games that utilize it (AKA, develop their game in DX12).
Switching to DX12 does not mean that developers will suddenly start using DX12 exclusive features. (AKA the features you are talking about)
Edit: To put it another way. My Nvidia 680 will be able to run games in DX12, but will not be able to take advantage of all the new features of DX12.
Hockeymac18
Member
Yes, and we won't know for sure what was said until the video is posted online. Anyone know when that will be?
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Not Mine
Genius.
joecanada
Member
Ever sense? Cmon man now your baiting the grammar Nazis? You outta control today!
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
This thread...scores!
If you've done this then you win this thread.
No I'm not misunderstanding. People are claiming you won't see the same improvement because the X1 "allows it" already. Right?
Well... I'm saying, not only have we not have confirmation of it having the full DirectX 12 featureset, until now, but even if it "allows it", there's actually very little evidence of any games taking advantage of those features, in reality.
So again, why wouldn't you see the same improvement, if chances are, nobody's coded for that specific feature set?
And I'm willing to go as far as to say not even MS's first party games have, because the only game in contention for something like this would have been Ryse, on Cryengine, a launch title that started off as an Xbox 360 game.
There hasn't really been anything out of MS's first party camp that's used a next-gen engine, save perhaps Rare's KSR. We saw some features in Forza Horizon, with its lighting, but that was all piggy backed on top of the Forza 5 engine. I think Fable on Unreal 4 would be the first game to even show some of those things off that really haven't been touched since available on DirectX 11.2. And imo, I believe it will take a good 1-2 years before any of the DX12 features will start making their way into actual games..
RedAssedApe
Banned
shu says: let them dream
Pathfinder
Member
That wouldn't really be fair, would it? People made those posts based on the thread title. It's not their fault the source was incorrect.
Shaunboy97
Member
But if this was PS4, it wouldn't be a dream.... is that how it works?
people are explaining the same thing over and over and you keep ignoring it, the new DX12 features that will affect the Xbox One are nor performance improvements because the Xbox One alredy has a low level API, meaning DX12 is briging the optimization the Xbox One alredy has to PCs.
People keep explaining an assumption, but I know for a fact it's not just a low level API, but also allows for a number of features not previously available, which to this day have barely been used.
I know for a fact, DirectX 11.2 allows for megatextures, via virtual tiles, which is a huge advantage in being able to store a large number of textures in a limited amount of RAM.
I know you can use it for a huge improvement in lighting and shadowing.
I know for a fact Forza Horizon took advantage of this by using thousands of light sources to create its lighting effects, and so far it's been one of the only games to do this.
And I also know for a fact, that was something available since DirectX 11.2. Barely used, in reality. And that's MS's first party. Multiplatform developers are just now barely ready to make the swap from cross-gen engines to next gen engines. UE4 has barely been used because of that fact.
All these people keep saying the same assumptions, but the facts don't back it up.
DealWithIt
Member
How it works is that a) you don't start a thread about something that's not true. b) you don't make insane comments in a thread about a tech you don't understand (speaking generally, not specifically to you).
If this was about the PS4 it would be equally ridiculous, but in this case people are just imagining that dx12 is "closing the hardware gap" somehow. optimization is awesome for everyone, in this case we just aren't talking about XB1 optimization at all, and if they were somehow magically getting a "20% hardware [optimization] boost" it would just bring the hardward closer to its theoretical max performance.
Wildarmsjecht
Member
The thread has potential to keep delivering. What a happy Wednesday.
Not Mine
That is pure gold.
Shaunboy97
Member
Thank you!! Not to mention access to cores not even being used...
Angelus Errare
Banned
kek
dude youre the one making assumptions, it has alredy been stated many times that DX12 will not bring more power to the Xbox One, it will enjoy new features that are not related to performance because the xbox one is ALREDY coded to the metal, there is no spining this.
this.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Not Mine
I am in tears at this gif! I can't reply logically... Lord
That's not what they're saying. At all.
Think about it this way: on a pc to draw something you'll send a command to directx, which will take your command in a standard format, then send it along to the driver. The driver then takes that command, and translates it for the specific hardware. Multiple layers.
Consoles simply don't have to do this, the hardware is set. DX12/mantle is designed to get rid of some of the middle layer, making it work closer to what consoles already do.
This thread...scores!
Wow, this is incredible.
Shaunboy97
Member
I agree with you... but both parties don't know what the capabilities are.. Only speculation. Phil did mention a while back that Xbox One was built with DX12 in mind. I would like to think it would do SOMETHING for performance. As far as %, I have no idea.
Please show me this proof that the Xbox One is already "coded to the metal", whatever the hell that means.
You should actually learn about the different software features, and graphics techniques possible, due to DirectX, if all you have to say is "coded to the metal".
When they say "feature set", that actually translates into tangible improvements in graphics, lighting, textures, etc. I have given you actual examples of what is possible with DirectX 11.2 which as I stated, I haven't actually seen put to use. There are many more now available due to DX12.
So unless you can point out games that are actually displaying these benefits, you are really just regurgitating a silly myth of "coding to the metal".
Mafia Films
Neo Member
as one of my associates has always said
50% increase from what to what?
20% increase from what to what?
Is it actually changing clock speeds or is it just optimizing what power is already there?
and is this on a tech demo? on a PC demo?
It all sounds like gimmicks to me.
then once DX 12 isnt what its promised to be itll be back to hyping the cloud and ESRAM.
50% increase from what to what?
20% increase from what to what?
Is it actually changing clock speeds or is it just optimizing what power is already there?
and is this on a tech demo? on a PC demo?
It all sounds like gimmicks to me.
then once DX 12 isnt what its promised to be itll be back to hyping the cloud and ESRAM.
the major point of DX12 is to optimize PCs by bringing the same efficiency consoles are enjoyning right now, where did you get this whole "more performance for the Xbox One" thing? hardware is set.
lukeskymac
Member
I love how the people still harping on about DX12's now imaginary gap closing just seem to assume that Sony's going to sit still and twiddle their thumbs instead of continually improve PSGL as well.
Wildarmsjecht
Member
Heh, I was right.
Thread continues to deliver.
And I can't stop laughing at that GIF OH MY GOD.
Thread continues to deliver.
And I can't stop laughing at that GIF OH MY GOD.
You just won't quit, do ya? Guys, let him dream!
Anyway, Xbone has "code to the metal" even before launch and even before you registered on this site :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=642427
Shaunboy97
Member
Hardware is set, but everyone knows the Xbox One launch with premature SDK's
It's no difference than reformatting your PC with crappy drivers... Once you install the proper, recent drivers, you get a boost in speed and efficiency. Meanwhile the hardware didn't change. Software does indeed make a difference. You and I both know this.
here
here is the source> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
there, Xbox One is alredy close to the metal, DX12 is bringing that to PCs.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Imagine a PC game built using DirectX 11 as its API. Now imagine you use a more sophisticated like DirectX 12 to develop for the same game. What if you could benchmark the game in both scenarios and measure the increase in performance with some level of accuracy? They probably measured the performance of Fable across 2 different APIs and the constant being the hardware and determined with FPS that the DirectX 12 version saw a demonstrable increase of 20%. I don't think the claim is ridiculous or fallacious. Seems reasonable to me.
bro, you will not see anything going past theoretical performance, ever, so your point? the only thing that will change with SDKs is how well used the power will be, DX12 WILL NOT do that for Xbox One, imagine that its alredy awesome drivers, cmon the console is alredy 1 year old.
You heard it here first, folks. Thousands of light sources. Thousands.
You really need to do some research into virtual tiles, streaming textures, voxel cone tracing, and how they all work hand in hand and stop using a generic term like "coding to the metal".
DirectX and other API's, don't just add a fuel boost in your gas tank and gives you a "percentage boost". It allows or makes possible for some very specific graphics techniques to take place, that are actually tangible and noticeable once put into action. Not previously possible before. Specifically the lighting and texturing benefits that allows for techniques such as Nvidia's VXGI or streaming partial resident textures, or shadow maps, are some examples.
Take a look at Granite for example: http://graphinesoftware.com/products/granitesdk
Things that we have barely seen in action on next-gen gaming engines. It's not just some percentage boost. It will allow for software techniques previously not possible. Software techniques most multiplatform developers haven't bothered with as of yet, because of the current landscape in the industry.
It doesn't begin and end with increasing your pixel count. That is hardly the most exciting aspect of DX12.
Shaunboy97
Member
...and how much happened within the year? We can end the conversation, you can wait with the rest of us.
As long as you keep confusing features with performance you will never get it. MS hasn't even announced the new features of DX12, but guess what? They will only work with DX12 GPU's.
The GPU's in both consoles won't be able to take full advantage of them, and as far as we know there are no current PC GPU's that can either.
And just to further support my point.
OS runtime and device drivers have to do with the API....exactly what everyone has been telling you that you refused to listen to. Please just stop
Not Mine
Just remember - in the TV show, the car with the green light was KARR - and he was EVIL!!
read my other post, and youre assuming too much, imagining that these new features will bring more performance, stop mixing these two.
Mafia Films
Neo Member
well wheres the numbers or proof of these %'s.
Idk why they dont push out something to backup their claims that way people could take it to the bank
Wildarmsjecht
Member
BrokenIcarus
Member
Love how specific you're being here.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
This thread...scores!
I am dying
Not for DX12, but they have actually announced the feature set of DirectX 11.2, and that's my point. We are not even at a point in the industry where mutliplatform developers are even taking advantage of something, that is already 2 years old.. Granite and virtual tiles have been available for a couple of years now. Most multiplatform devs have barely scraped the surface and save for a couple, have hardly redesigned their game engines to take advantage. Their next-gen engines, are just now getting tuned up. UE4, Snowdrop, etc.
Both GPUs in both consoles are capable of taking advantage of some of these features. Voxel Cone tracing has been shown to work, albeit limited, on the PS4 2 years ago. Similar features has been shown for DX11.2 My point is, nobody's doing it...yet.
Once the PC gets DX12, they will.
It's in this area that you will actually see the biggest improvement. Not going from 900p to 1080p. Not pixels. Not shader output. But actual graphics: lighting, textures and physics.