RedAssedApe
Banned
i'd suggest powers first. especially if you don't even know if you'll like the game yet. people seem to be having enough trouble stealthing the game as is with powers.
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Dishonored 2 |OT| The Edge of the World
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
i'd suggest powers first. especially if you don't even know if you'll like the game yet. people seem to be having enough trouble stealthing the game as is with powers.
Go powers first. The game is hard enough as it is imo
i blame the game for even mentioning low chaos and affecting the ending
I agree about the first part, they either shouldn't have mentioned it at all or gone all in and fully explained it to the player perhaps by giving them a meter at the end of levels or tells even during gameplay (or all of this and have things toggleable). Being able to check how many you've killed at any time is a big improvement, though I believe we don't even know if the 20% kills even equates to low chaos in this game like it did in the last one.
It's a level design problem I think largely. The levels are designed and the enemies are placed in such a way that playing a true stealth playthrough feels a lot more frustrating. I think a really good example of this is the early set of Rune/bonecharms that are placed directly in front of several civilians and 2 overseers who never stop staring at them. If you get seen the civilians all panic (running to find even more guards), and the overseers start randomly tossing grenades everywhere, almost guaranteed to accidentally blow up civilians making this part even worse if you are trying do non lethal as well.
I reloaded a bunch of times and eventually got it right but it didn't feel satisfying.
drotahorror
Member
Is there a payoff for not getting detected throughout the whole game? Why are people playing this way and getting frustrated about it?
If it's just for an achievement (no ending or anything) why would you want your first playthrough to be so aggravating and annoying?
If it's just for an achievement (no ending or anything) why would you want your first playthrough to be so aggravating and annoying?
Rexatality
Member
There's a sense of satisfaction for playing the whole game without being detected for some people.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Mission 7 was just excellent stuff
I agree. The amount of trial and error and lack of tools in the opening levels makes for a very clunky, frustrating experience.
The thing is doing such a playthrough in no way made the first game aggravating or annoying.
Yeah, but don't underestimate the lure of that sweet, sweet achievement.
I strongly wouldn't recommend doing full ghost or pacifist for a first playthrough because you'll assuredly come up against bugs or weird issues that break your streak and you'll checking the stats screen a lot to make sure you don't fuck up.
Trying to playing perfectly in almost any kind of way in this game is going to be much more challenging by design and require a lot of saving and loading. But hey, you can play it however you want.
Naw, people still ran into the problem of getting a kill out of nowhere or not sure if something counted as a detection, except they had to wait until the end of the level to see if they got fucked. You didn't have a quicksave on consoles either. It is much easier to stealth in that game though and I'm guessing it wasn't as buggy on launch.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
So, a mythical deity comes to you and says, "Do you want awesome Victorian Steampunk Ninja Powers?"
your two options are:
A. "Yes, I want awesome Victorian Steampunk Ninja Powers"
B. "No, I don't want awesome Victorian Steampunk Ninja Powers"
There is one correct answer here. Choose carefully.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
The only thing really confusing me about Sterling's review is how he finds Emily's powerset boring. The combination of Far Reach + Domino alone...
Shadow Walk is kind of lame, though, to be fair.
Shadow Walk is kind of lame, though, to be fair.
So....this happened last night when I used domino on the 3rd mission and I was crying from laughter
Haha holy shit
i cant wait i cant wait i cant wait https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqpj2DiEHXo
The thing is there are good tools to get those items. Far reach lets you pull objects towards you, you can create a distraction elsewhere, or you can simply just walk right up to it and take it a lot of the time. Guards are dumb (and civvies don't care) and have a very strict cone of vision and sound isn't really that important in this game (unfortunately) so if you're in sneak mode, no one can hear you whatsoever.
No alert is inherently going to be trial-and-error-y, especially on a first playthrough. It comes with the nature of the game.
I think it's useful but like some of the abilities, highly situational.
The problem with this game and most stealth games, really, is that going high is always *ALWAYS* better than going low. You have better awareness. Enemies don't look up, they look down. Staying at ground level generally has more obstacles in the way. And going up is nearly always built to have very clear "big shortcut" points like silly vents that just lead you conveniently to your goal. It happens a lot in these sorts of games, not just Dishonored. Deus Ex: HR was heavily plagued by this. Styx has *some* issues with it too but I think where Styx succeeds is often those higher paths are not just simple one shot pathways but become complex and sometimes just plain don't exist.
Armitage Shanks
Member
I felt the same. There was a great start, a good build-up, but then the last couple of missions felt.. I don't know, like we were being rushed to a conclusion, and the
final boss fight with I don't even know why I bothered to spoiler this
Freezasaurus
Member
Question about the end of the game, spoilers, obviously.
I'm just curious if anyone knows what it is?
I took out Delilah by trapping her in the painting. But when I went to place her on the throne, I also noticed that "Place Delilah on the throne" was listed underneath "Find another way to eliminate Delilah." This seems to indicate there's another nonlethal way to finish her.
Yah, EatChildren made a comment earlier on in the thread saying that it sort of diminishes a huge strength of the game. It's like forcing yourself to have perfect runs in Hitman the first time through. The games just aren't built for players to strive for that out the gate. There are so many systems built in that are meant to be used in moments of "oh shit I got caught, time to either get away or kill everyone". That rush is as much a part of the game as everything else. Yes, definitely try to be stealthy, but embrace the chaos and play with it as well. Then dive into pure no kills or no alert later.
I mean if you're already savescumming you can always just play it as it lays and go nuts in an encounter a few times and then reload to do it for "real" after you understand the layout and space. I dont really understand the idea that if you're doing a nokill/ghost run the first time you're just trial and erroring 24/7.
Doing that systematically encounter by encounter doesn't make it less time consuming, repetitive, or more enjoyable. Partly because being familiar with the environment is only one of the challenges in a ghost run (which is best done not by going nuts but rather staying stealth and observing) and partly because feeling like you're playing through the game twice or more in one go isn't enjoyable. People already do that on occasion as it's a natural tactic in stealth games, and it assuredly still falls under the same complaint.
Save scummy, trial and error, playing haphazardly through the encounter once and replaying it carefully, however you do it or phrase it, you're potentially facing a lot of repetition if you want to ghost the game.
I was more responding to the underlying vibe in the posts telling others what to do their first run that everyone ghosting for the first time are just quickreloading as soon as theyre caught and missing the more chaotic moments. That you find it unsatisfying doesnt really factor into that.
So did y'all side with the Howlers or the Overseers?
I went with the Howlers because it seemed like the people wanted the Howlers to succeed (the lady wanted to double her protection money contribution) versus the Overseers were basically executing civilians.
Crack in the Slab spoilers
I went with the Howlers because it seemed like the people wanted the Howlers to succeed (the lady wanted to double her protection money contribution) versus the Overseers were basically executing civilians.
Crack in the Slab spoilers
If I had saved Stilton, does that change the final outcome?
Yeah,
the present is a bit better off if you save him.
Take out the uses of "enjoyable" in my post and I think my point still stands. I didn't realize that's what you replying about specifically so I get where you're coming from, but I think everyone knows that being able to save anywhere you can just go nuts whenever so you technically don't have to miss crazy moments. That doesn't mean ghost run isn't going to be an exercise in tedium and repetition for new players doing that as their first playthrough because it's designed more so as a bonus challenge rather than a play style.
I agree it's not as hyperbolic as trial and error 24/7, but it tends to be heavy on reverting to saves if you're really going for it. edit: Eat Children's post sums up things better than I can.
Mission 6 spoilers:
Neither, I dumped the Overseer and Paolo in boxes to get shipped off to work in the mines and knocked out/murdered all their lackeys.
For the second question,
If you're talking solely about the final cutscene of the game, then I can't quite remember if there's a part in there specifically about that. If you're talking about mission 7 outcome, very much so as well as multiple other things.
I've found that luring them out with a crossbow bolt or shattered glass, right into a
well-placed, upgraded stun mine
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I read on here earlier that it had mouse issues on PC. Have they been fixed yet?
So it seems to me that salvaging all the basic bone charms and then doing custom ones is the real way to go. Not seeing a major downside unless you don't upgrade to the stuff that reduces corruption, or if you're not exploring to find any Raw Whalebone.
the_batman
Banned
I think it depends on your playstyle.
I find myself enjoying Shadow Walk quite a bit as part of the power fantasy. Crawling around like a barely visible wraith, incapacitating terrified guards or tearing witches in half.
I'm actually less interested in stuff like Domino or Doppleganger. But I'm not going for a pure stealth or low chaos ending, nor am I killing everything that moves; just the ones that deserve it.
Far Reach does seem more glitchy than Blink did in the first game and DLC, in terms of finding the right anchor point to teleport to.
i just ghosted on very hard with no powers. remember, certain things don't count towards failure. you can kill the clockwork soldiers, the same way you can kill dogs, flies and rats.... i even threw grenades at a few of them. as long as they don't see you, you get away with it. it was a bit of a nightmare to traverse. but generally i didn't find it any harder than the previous missions. loved the level design though. must have taken ages to design and build.
i think a non-lethal, no power ghost run is most definitely a playstyle. and most definitely a valid one to start out with if someone would want to. i don't think they would have designed the game to allow it if it wasn't.
my personal thoughts are that it's probably the most satisfying, more rewarding way to play the game. the sense of accomplishment is absolutely huge. but it does require patience and some good logical thinking to get around the world/taking out enemies. powered runs i find become too easy as you progress. making later levels trivial and thus quite boring (i almost never finished the first game because of this). no-power, ghost runs start hard and remain hard throughout. you pick up certain understandings and exploitation of the AI as you go. but generally getting a group of guards to separate to take out individually is just as hard on mission 8 as it was on mission 1. and i like that. i like that the level of challenge and consistency of the experience is maintained start to end.
mainly though, i think a no powers ghost run is a good way to start just because once it's done you can let loose in consequent playthrough's with powers. it's like being unleashed. but starting on no-powers/ghost will make you infinitely better at stealth. it won't teach you bad habits and it's more rewarding. compare that to a power run first and you're going from having all these abilities to having NON and you'll have picked up bad techniques because you had powers to fall back on.
i look at like i do guitar hero. i always recommend people start on hard, with all 5 notes. because playing lower makes you worse when you finally do step up to the challenge of hard.
Universal. And any blueprint you pick up unlocks a purchasable upgrade at any black market dealer.
Cheers.
Just finished the game as Emily. Low chaos killing people, most mostly stealth / avoiding them. I took the low chaos route for every target. Took me around 17 hours on normal.
I thought it was fantastic, I think I still prefer the first but this is definitely in my top five of the year.
Going to start it up again straight away as my boy Corvo.
I did miss the game not having as many "side quests" as the first game.. even though it didn't have many. But those Granny Rags and gang missions were nice little extras.
I thought it was fantastic, I think I still prefer the first but this is definitely in my top five of the year.
Going to start it up again straight away as my boy Corvo.
I did miss the game not having as many "side quests" as the first game.. even though it didn't have many. But those Granny Rags and gang missions were nice little extras.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah Far Reach is much harder to get precisely due to the momentum, but I found that's too its advantage most of the time; you can fling yourself much further horizontally to get drop assassinations if you get it right.
Shadow Walk... I dunno, it felt like on Hard at least the guards still saw me most of the time; maybe it's better in active combat? I didn't get into too much of that on my Emily playthrough, usually if I got spotted I tried to escape or used the howling bolts. Didn't get Doppelganger till near the end and kind of regret waiting that long.
InsaneTiger
Member
Either I suck or I suck but no powers, no kill, not spotted run on Hard is...hard. Guards are hyper sensitive.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Early on it kind of sucks if you're trying to be 'completionist' and grab the bonecharms, but there's usually a high or low route you can use to just bypass patrols entirely- doesn't work inside buildings but you usually only have to wait for two guards to turn their backs on you instead of like, 7.
Speaking of Flesh and Steel, in Mission 3 is there anyway to get the black bonecharm
on the roof?
Played some more of this last night, got to mission 3 and I think I'm going to restart. I just don't have it in me to grind and reload to keep this stealthy and low chaos. The first game was tedious and this is no different.
I thought magic powers would mitigate it, but nope, there's no way to orient yourself to the enemies and environment in real time(lol at that shitty super vision power that monochromes everything to make it even more confusing and sort of maybe give you an idea of where some enemies are once every 5 seconds when it pulses) the only way to do it is to spend enough time fucking up and reloading to learn the whole thing. There's also no way to effectively recover from a mistake. With the ability to slow time when detected and to "grab" out of corners that will be investigated, there are some situations that I can get out of, but most of these scenarios are too open with too many enemies around to improvise my way out of on the spot.
To add insult to injury, the controller is constantly buzzing, reminding me that I should also spend hours going over every corner and nook of these maps looking for different types of power ups and currency. Because, you know, this whole thing is just way too much fun so let's slow it down a little.
I'm gonna have to start lopping heads of and disregard the game chastising me for it every chance it gets because this is as frustrating and tedious as stealth games get otherwise.
I thought magic powers would mitigate it, but nope, there's no way to orient yourself to the enemies and environment in real time(lol at that shitty super vision power that monochromes everything to make it even more confusing and sort of maybe give you an idea of where some enemies are once every 5 seconds when it pulses) the only way to do it is to spend enough time fucking up and reloading to learn the whole thing. There's also no way to effectively recover from a mistake. With the ability to slow time when detected and to "grab" out of corners that will be investigated, there are some situations that I can get out of, but most of these scenarios are too open with too many enemies around to improvise my way out of on the spot.
To add insult to injury, the controller is constantly buzzing, reminding me that I should also spend hours going over every corner and nook of these maps looking for different types of power ups and currency. Because, you know, this whole thing is just way too much fun so let's slow it down a little.
I'm gonna have to start lopping heads of and disregard the game chastising me for it every chance it gets because this is as frustrating and tedious as stealth games get otherwise.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Does it do that?
That's what I'm doing. It is hard, but isn't that to be expected...?
Mesmerize or Doppleganger for stealthy non lethal low chaos run for Emily? I'm leaning more on Mesmerize first. Currently on Mission 5.
I think the non-lethal options are actually much improved from the first Dishonored but I abandoned the idea of ghosting through everything, as a first run I had to relay too much on save scumming and the game feels a bit buggy sometimes.
I'm playing on PS4, the game crashed 2 times and there are weird graphic glitches in some situations, hope they manage to fix it in the next patches.
I think the non-lethal options are actually much improved from the first Dishonored but I abandoned the idea of ghosting through everything, as a first run I had to relay too much on save scumming and the game feels a bit buggy sometimes.
I'm playing on PS4, the game crashed 2 times and there are weird graphic glitches in some situations, hope they manage to fix it in the next patches.