SargerusBR
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Disney, release the original Star Wars movies already!
- Thread starter Charles Foster Kane
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There is a collector that not only own multiple (technicolor) prints of Star Wars, but has been working on a 4K restoration of the film for the better part of 10 years. He is willing to offer his restoration to Disney/Lucas if necessary.
If Disney wanted this to happen, it would happen. I'm certain of that. The necessary materials exist. It's just a matter of it being a worthwhile investment on their part... which is probably isn't. But who knows.
matrix-cat
Member
I would buy a theatrical edition Blu Ray set so hard it'd make your head spin. I still have my VHS set of the trilogy sitting on my shelf, though I have to rely on the Despecialized Editions thesedays because I got rid of my VCR years ago.
The Despecialized Editions are worth Googling for anyone interested in the best remastering job we're likely to see until Disney has a crack. It's all done by one guy named Harmy, I think, who's edited together near perfect theatrical cuts of all three movies from pretty much any source he can get his hands on: DVDs, the Blu Rays, HDTV broadcasts, Laserdisc, etc. They're not Blu Ray quality, but it's really incredible work all the same. He even did a Despecialized Remastered edition for Star Wars (720p, about 15GB) a couple of years ago, though every time I check back I find that he's still trying to perfect it rather than moving on to the other two movies. I can't exactly blame him, since it must be an incredible time sink.
The Despecialized Editions are worth Googling for anyone interested in the best remastering job we're likely to see until Disney has a crack. It's all done by one guy named Harmy, I think, who's edited together near perfect theatrical cuts of all three movies from pretty much any source he can get his hands on: DVDs, the Blu Rays, HDTV broadcasts, Laserdisc, etc. They're not Blu Ray quality, but it's really incredible work all the same. He even did a Despecialized Remastered edition for Star Wars (720p, about 15GB) a couple of years ago, though every time I check back I find that he's still trying to perfect it rather than moving on to the other two movies. I can't exactly blame him, since it must be an incredible time sink.
Yeah, same here. Any VFX should only be cleaned up.
Then, release that shit in theatres with a 3D version (for the plebs).
Warm Machine
Member
You really have to watch these in Blu Ray even as they are to see how rough the effects work in the originals are. Jedi has tons of god awful stuff still in there like that strange hand animated shadow when Leia walks in to rescue Han at night. My lord do the stars outside of the Emperors chamber look terrible. There are also a few really terrible mattes. The special editions probably did more good then they did harm because there is a lot of work to do.
Apparently there was talk of a possible original unaltered trilogy release last year at Comic Con.
Maybe we'll hear some more about it this year.
Maybe we'll hear some more about it this year.
They will work out a deal with Fox. I expect it maybe around the time the new film comes out at the earliest.
I grew up watching the movies on VHS, we had both the standard and special edition releases. Also had the "Power of the Force" toys, and lots of video games such as Star Wars Chess, Rebel Assault, and Yoda Stories. I remember the Special Editions were widescreen and on a small 19" Sony TV that was viewed from across the room it was too small to watch so we would always default for the Special Editions.
I will always have a special place for Star Wars and the original movies. I got really burnt out on it all though by the time Episode 3 was out. All the years of heavy merchandising and advertising really killed it for me.
I do not want the Special Editions, can't stand them. It's crazy how on DVD they made even more Special Edition changes, then it was only a few years later they released the original versions on DVD. The whole thing about Lucas or Fox not having a transfer of the original isn't true IMO. The reason they did that shit with the original laser disc 4:3 widescreen versions on the DVDs was out of laziness.
I have been on a break from Star Wars since 2005 and still don't feel like I"ve had enough time away from it all. Maybe by next year I will think differently. It's sad because as a 4 year old kid all the way until I was 13/14 I must have watched those movies dozens and dozens of times.
I grew up watching the movies on VHS, we had both the standard and special edition releases. Also had the "Power of the Force" toys, and lots of video games such as Star Wars Chess, Rebel Assault, and Yoda Stories. I remember the Special Editions were widescreen and on a small 19" Sony TV that was viewed from across the room it was too small to watch so we would always default for the Special Editions.
I will always have a special place for Star Wars and the original movies. I got really burnt out on it all though by the time Episode 3 was out. All the years of heavy merchandising and advertising really killed it for me.
I do not want the Special Editions, can't stand them. It's crazy how on DVD they made even more Special Edition changes, then it was only a few years later they released the original versions on DVD. The whole thing about Lucas or Fox not having a transfer of the original isn't true IMO. The reason they did that shit with the original laser disc 4:3 widescreen versions on the DVDs was out of laziness.
I have been on a break from Star Wars since 2005 and still don't feel like I"ve had enough time away from it all. Maybe by next year I will think differently. It's sad because as a 4 year old kid all the way until I was 13/14 I must have watched those movies dozens and dozens of times.
TDLink
Member
I would prefer the 1997 special edition to be re-released. Because honestly, those are the best versions of the films. Just the right amount of effects touch ups and edits for the better, a much better ending composition from John Williams for ROTJ rather than Yub Nub, Jabba scene in A New Hope, and no Hayden Christensen or ADRed Vader "Noooo".
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that best version of these movies is going to be lost to time since everyone just wants the originals and automatically assumes ALL of the revisions were shit.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that best version of these movies is going to be lost to time since everyone just wants the originals and automatically assumes ALL of the revisions were shit.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Yeah a lot of people seem to forget that not all the changes were negative. I think most of the visual and audio upgrades are a good thing, its the additional content like random characters being pasted into the background or changing how events originally occurred that is mostly ranging from pointless to outright terrible.
Somebody with a level head needs to go through them and pick out which changes are good and which are bad and just get rid of the bad ones. That would be the ultimate version of the film, not just the pure original.
SpaceShark
Member
Fuck, I had no idea about any of this. That's depressing as hell.
I watched the originals back in the day, and remember being excited about the late 90s re-releases - went and saw them all in the cinema etc. Even back then, I remember thinking that the new effects and scenes looked good (remember, it was 1997) but that they were a bit out of place. Now I just want the option to watch the originals again.
At least I have the DeSpecialized versions sitting at home for when I'm ready for an OT re-watch.
Yes, exactly. I don't mind cleaning up the picture and effects etc., but the problem is they've added so many little bits and pieces over the years that I don't remember which version had which additions! When did they add the extra Jabba the Hutt scene in Episode IV? The 1997 re-release? The DVD release? I have no idea anymore. I think, for the most part, when people say "originals" they mean no "extras". I think a general remaster/clean-up would be OK for most people.
matrix-cat
Member
Are we thinking of the same Jabba in ANH scene here? The one where Jabba doesn't resemble ROTJ Jabba at all, and Han walks over his fucking tail, and Boba Fett just mugs for the camera for like eight straight seconds? No, I'm pretty sure we can lose that.
There's so much shitty late-'90s CGI in the early parts of Star Wars it's almost like they did it as a joke. The first shot in Mos Eisley has like four hundred extras, aliens, speeders and dinosaurs walking in front of the camera for no reason at all. I firmly believe that Lucas intended to do that to the whole trilogy, but then he saw how much work it took, got lazy and half-assed the rest of the special editions. We don't even need to talk about Greedo shooting first and missing from two feet away, Luke's scream as he drops in Cloud City, the music video that breaks out in Jabba's Palace, etc etc. Theatrical or death.
Every time I see this thread title I read it as "Disney releases the original Star Wars movies," I then get really excited for a moment before realizing that is not what it says at all.
I hate you for repeatedly getting my hopes up and the dashing them, even though it is my fault for skimming instead of reading.
I hate you for repeatedly getting my hopes up and the dashing them, even though it is my fault for skimming instead of reading.
None of the SE versions are acceptable, if we're talking about a flawless Blu-ray release of the originals. I would certainly prefer some fixes be made, and never had a problem with that idea, but Lucas started to actually change narrative content, and that's where it goes off the rails.
My ideal BD release of the OT would include:
- Fixed sabers all around, especially in the first film. Obi-Wan's naked saber fixed, Vader's white saber as the blast doors close fixed, and change Luke's saber back to blue from the DVD/Blu-Ray releases in which it is inexplicably green. How the hell does a mistake like that happen?
- Keep the new, more kinetic Death Star battle in ANH. The old effects really don't cut it anymore.
- Remove the matte line boxes from around all the ships, especially the TIE Fighters.
- Moving dewback near cantina in Mos Eisley
- Labels on the tractor beam controls changed from English to Aurabesh
- New tauntauns to replace the stop motion ones. All due respect to Phil Tippet and company, but they never looked good, even in 1980.
- New wampa
- Fully opaque snowspeeder cockpits
- New windows/vistas in Cloud City
- Special Edition color-matched/cleaned up rancor sequence
- Beak on the sarlaac, because Boba Fett is fucking dead
- Cleaned up "Emperor's slugs"
- Ewok blinking...it always bugged me that they had obviously glass eyes
- John Williams' new ending music and galaxy-wide celebrations, albeit with Jar Jar's "weesa free!" removed
It would NOT include:
- Greedo shooting first
- The ANH Jabba scene, because it's just a repetition of the Greedo scene, almost word for word in places
- CG-ified Mos Eisley...I like the idea, but the way it was done never worked for me. Too much slapstick and random greenscreened extras wandering in front of the shot.
- Crane shot of the Falcon taking off in Mos Eisley. Jarring and unlike any other shot in the film.
- Goes without saying because it was already removed in the latest release, but for some reason on the DVD version of Empire, Luke has the Emperor's death scream slapped on him during his fall in Bespin. This would need to go/not return.
- The ridiculous "Vader returning to the Star Destroyer" sequence in Empire. It's blatantly reused footage of his arrival on the Death Star II in RotJ, down to the assembly of stormtroopers. They're chasing the Falcon as it tries to escape the system, why would they all line up just because Vader's coming back? Also it looks nothing like a Star Destroyer's docking bay. Adds nothing, messes with the pacing. Toss it.
- The horrendous "Jedi Rocks" sequence in Jabba's palace. Lapti Nek is infinitely better.
- Obviously no "NOOOOOO!" from Vader at the end of RotJ.
- Anakin gets his eyebrows back.
- Anakin is not Hayden Christensen, although it makes no sense to have Sebastian Shaw there as a theoretically 45 year old man. It would have to be a new actor of the right age, somehow recognizable as the character. Of course, if Disney does the right thing and remakes the prequels completely, this is a moot point, and the new Anakin actor can be used.
But in the end I'll still buy the unaltered theatrical versions if that's what's offered. It's a new era of Star Wars, in which the customer is encouraged to pick the version they prefer, be it EU or no EU, SE or no SE, prequels or no prequels.
My ideal BD release of the OT would include:
- Fixed sabers all around, especially in the first film. Obi-Wan's naked saber fixed, Vader's white saber as the blast doors close fixed, and change Luke's saber back to blue from the DVD/Blu-Ray releases in which it is inexplicably green. How the hell does a mistake like that happen?
- Keep the new, more kinetic Death Star battle in ANH. The old effects really don't cut it anymore.
- Remove the matte line boxes from around all the ships, especially the TIE Fighters.
- Moving dewback near cantina in Mos Eisley
- Labels on the tractor beam controls changed from English to Aurabesh
- New tauntauns to replace the stop motion ones. All due respect to Phil Tippet and company, but they never looked good, even in 1980.
- New wampa
- Fully opaque snowspeeder cockpits
- New windows/vistas in Cloud City
- Special Edition color-matched/cleaned up rancor sequence
- Beak on the sarlaac, because Boba Fett is fucking dead
- Cleaned up "Emperor's slugs"
- Ewok blinking...it always bugged me that they had obviously glass eyes
- John Williams' new ending music and galaxy-wide celebrations, albeit with Jar Jar's "weesa free!" removed
It would NOT include:
- Greedo shooting first
- The ANH Jabba scene, because it's just a repetition of the Greedo scene, almost word for word in places
- CG-ified Mos Eisley...I like the idea, but the way it was done never worked for me. Too much slapstick and random greenscreened extras wandering in front of the shot.
- Crane shot of the Falcon taking off in Mos Eisley. Jarring and unlike any other shot in the film.
- Goes without saying because it was already removed in the latest release, but for some reason on the DVD version of Empire, Luke has the Emperor's death scream slapped on him during his fall in Bespin. This would need to go/not return.
- The ridiculous "Vader returning to the Star Destroyer" sequence in Empire. It's blatantly reused footage of his arrival on the Death Star II in RotJ, down to the assembly of stormtroopers. They're chasing the Falcon as it tries to escape the system, why would they all line up just because Vader's coming back? Also it looks nothing like a Star Destroyer's docking bay. Adds nothing, messes with the pacing. Toss it.
- The horrendous "Jedi Rocks" sequence in Jabba's palace. Lapti Nek is infinitely better.
- Obviously no "NOOOOOO!" from Vader at the end of RotJ.
- Anakin gets his eyebrows back.
- Anakin is not Hayden Christensen, although it makes no sense to have Sebastian Shaw there as a theoretically 45 year old man. It would have to be a new actor of the right age, somehow recognizable as the character. Of course, if Disney does the right thing and remakes the prequels completely, this is a moot point, and the new Anakin actor can be used.
But in the end I'll still buy the unaltered theatrical versions if that's what's offered. It's a new era of Star Wars, in which the customer is encouraged to pick the version they prefer, be it EU or no EU, SE or no SE, prequels or no prequels.
Paper Sparrow
Member
Man, all this Star Wars talk. Loving it.
I sometimes wonder what went through Lucas' head when he did some of these scenes. It feels like he suffers from the common "artist finds too many faults in their own work", but instead of letting it go, like most artists eventually must do, he obsessed over it.
"If only we did this." or "This would tie it in better." He should have just moved on a long time ago. (This comes from someone who likes the 1997 edition.)
I sometimes wonder what went through Lucas' head when he did some of these scenes. It feels like he suffers from the common "artist finds too many faults in their own work", but instead of letting it go, like most artists eventually must do, he obsessed over it.
"If only we did this." or "This would tie it in better." He should have just moved on a long time ago. (This comes from someone who likes the 1997 edition.)
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Might as well bring a 4k version.
There is this feature called seamless branching. So they could actually give us both. I don't trust anyone to make modifications to those movies.
Disney do it. I would buy that day 1.
TDLink
Member
best version
Yes because I really don't give a shit if Han shot first or not, it is not really a big deal either way. Han is still a "scoundrel" either way. The Jabba scene was good, bad effects at the time or not, it was worth including to set him up for ROTJ. There is a reason the scene was shot when they originally filmed it in the first place. And that stupid dance number I could do without, but it's a minor inconvenience for pretty much all of the other benefits that 97 special editions bring.
I don't believe that CG cavalcade in Mos Eisley was added until the DVD release, not the 97 special edition, but I could be wrong about that.
And while that dance number is bad, let's not pretend that Yub Nub (an "original version" sequence) was much better.
Anyways, how about this. Ideal version = 97 special editions but Han still shoots first and we can lose the dance number from ROTJ. I am pretty that would bug no one and would be pretty much the best versions of the films.
matrix-cat
Member
It sets him up as a chump! Jabba's supposed to be intimidating, we're supposed to be worried about Han owing a debt to the guy. He's a looming threat, sending bounty hunters after Han, and when we finally see him it's in his giant palace with his crowd of sycophants and hangers-on and private army and stuff. Sure, it turns out he can be strangled to death by a ninety pound girl in her undies, but we didn't know that at the time. The added scene for the special edition shows beyond all doubt that Jabba is a complete wuss from the very start, nothing worth worrying about at all. Han figuratively and literally walks all over him.
The Mos Eisley stuff is definitely a VHS special edition addition, too. You can actually see these weird scrub marks around all the added stuff that I assume were part of the matte-ing process on the original film prints.
I don't necessarily think that every SE addition is terrible, but... well, I think the vast majority are. Removal of big black matte lines and upgraded lightsabre effects are great, but personally I'd rather have a theatrical cut with minimal restoration and enhancement than start picking and choosing from all the different versions. I want to see them as they were in the cinema.
TDLink
Member
I don't really think Jabba was all that even in ROTJ. Like you said, he's strangled by a 90 pound girl. I can see your argument though. I can take or leave the scene. My broad point is that the 97 special editions made many great improvements over the originals and I am not a fan of this group of people who want the originals to release as is, ignoring absolutely all of the updates that have been made. They aren't all bad, and I absolutely would have someone go in and pick and choose what updates to keep. Pretty much anything involving effects (which are in fact the "vast majority) is a positive upgrade. The new ending music for ROTJ is a positive upgrade. If, aside from the ROTJ ending, you don't want them to include any of the actual scene alterations or additions...I'm pretty much fine with that. But absolutely keep that much improved finale and absolutely keep all of the effects. I do not want to go back to vaseline smeared landspeeder, etc.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
You're wrong. That stuff was in theaters. They even had toys of that stuff released around that time.
Like this
http://postimage.org/
I have trading cards of those shots from '97, too. Oh, and they talk about them in detail in this...
http://postimage.org/
PhantomZone
Member
Well previously the closest to a theatrical release was the 2006 editions that were purely theatrical - no SE updates what-so-ever and people whinged about that. You can't please everyone.
Ein Bear
Member
Yeah, Empire definitely gets off the lightest. With the exception of that stupid scream they give Luke (which has since been taken out), I can't really think of anything too offensive in there. I'd agree that the updated Cloud City looks really nice too.
New Hope and Jedi though, fuuuuucking hell. Need the theatricals of those.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
They were 13-year-old composite video transfers, with the added bonus of MPEG-2 compression. They were pretty much a troll.
There's still that pace-killing filler with Darth Vader's shuttle and the Executor.
But yeah, the current version is bearable.
I don't think I've ever called it A New Hope in my life. It's always just been Star Wars.
Glad to see someone in this thread knows what's up. Harmy's despecialized editions are as close as we'll get to the originals, and in 720p too.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
No one currently in my life would even know what I meant if I said A New Hope.
this fucking guy. everytime I read something about him I get more angry. what a massive butthurt of an asshole.
Wait, why didn't you buy this when it came out in 2008?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Original_unaltered_trilogy_(DVD)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Original_unaltered_trilogy_(DVD)
Am I the only one who thinks it's ridiculous that someone can own the rights to something they don't own anymore? Rights laws are a joke.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
You're not making sense. Fox owns Star Wars (the '77 original) because they paid for it and never sold it off. The others they still own distribution rights to because contracts. Existing contracts don't just go away because they're inconvenient.
It's like how Paramount sold the rights to Jason Voorhees to New Line but still owned the first eight Friday the 13th movies. (whose video rights they ended up selling to WB many years later)
It explains why in the link you posted. Those versions were less a real release and more of a "fine, whatever" from George for all those complaining. It's ripped from the Laser Disc in 4:3 Pan and Scan. That means that, not only is it quite a bit lower in resolution than the other versions, but if you were to watch it on a 16:9 TV (which is what 99% of people have these days), instead of it taking up the entire screen, it'll have a large black box around it. It was extremely poorly put together.
There is no quality release of the original versions of the trilogy.
Moff
Member
there has been a dvd releae of it a few years ago, as far as I know it bombed.
the desire for these unaltered versions isnt as high as the internet makes you think.
As I've written above, it was a hack-job of a release. In truth, yes, the casual viewer probably doesn't really care about the different versions of Star Wars, but that's exactly the reason why it probably didn't sell well at all. The only ones who want to buy it are also the ones who give a damn about image quality. So they just dropped the ball with their target audience.
Assuming they got that right it probably would have sold like hotcakes.
This is where I stand. Maintaining the original VFX while making them seem more real.
Because they were total shit?
Moff
Member
I honestly doubt that, I bought them, and of course I wasnt 100% happy with them either. but I'm certain most people who care about watching the original cut of the movies, bought this version. I think (and disney pretty sure, too) that a good version wouldnt sell that much more.
Tertullian
Member
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY
Even if they did, they'd find some way to fuck it up royally. You think they'd do as good a job as Harmy did? Hell no. It will be based on some shitty version with all kinds of issues, unceremoniously thrown on a disk and sold to you for twice the usual price.
Even if they did, they'd find some way to fuck it up royally. You think they'd do as good a job as Harmy did? Hell no. It will be based on some shitty version with all kinds of issues, unceremoniously thrown on a disk and sold to you for twice the usual price.
I doubt that, it sold poorly because everyone who cares about that version knew it was poor. If Disney makes a Blu-ray edition that is visual great, it will sell.
Surely when we do get a post-Lucas release of the OT they will take out Vader's NOoooo in ROTJ? That was George's final insult.
It would be nice if they do a 'definitive' edition where they clean up all the effects, fix all the image quality and sound issues, but chuck out all the added scenes except for the Emperor in ESB. The Special Editions, like the prequels, had good intentions but by the late 90s Lucas had gone soft in the head and didn't know what he was doing. Somebody competent could easily oversee an updated version of the OT that didn't irritate fans or look cheap.
It would be nice if they do a 'definitive' edition where they clean up all the effects, fix all the image quality and sound issues, but chuck out all the added scenes except for the Emperor in ESB. The Special Editions, like the prequels, had good intentions but by the late 90s Lucas had gone soft in the head and didn't know what he was doing. Somebody competent could easily oversee an updated version of the OT that didn't irritate fans or look cheap.
Moff
Member
are you telling me you didnt buy it? its still the only way to get that version.
Why? I don't own them, and I'd love to own the original versions. They weren't worth it at all because of the quality dip.
I have the VHS tapes from back in the day, but no I did not because they sucked and I don't care that much. If they release a Blu Ray, I would bite.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It's not even the best way to get that particular transfer. That would be LaserDisc.
Moff
Member
well I dont have a VHS player anymore, so of course I bought the 2008 release. and its not that terrible either, I certainly dont regret buying them. as I said, not everyone who wants the original cut wants them, thats obvious, but I'm sure the sales were indicative enough to show that the interest in the original cut is much lower than some people make you think.
I had a laser disc rip on dvd, that the version I used before the 2008 release.
I had a laser disc rip on dvd, that the version I used before the 2008 release.
The Blu Ray would have probably been more successful if they had just touched up the special edition flaws. The new stuff added is what broke the camels back. On top of that some of the fixes they did were so damn lazy that is fixed for like 1 frame then broken in the rest.
Should have been ashamed they released the movies in that condition
Should have been ashamed they released the movies in that condition
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I don't mean a LaserDisc rip. I mean the actual LaserDisc.
It's like the DVD, but without the compression.
That's how pathetic the theatrical DVDs are. People were complaining about shit like those releases in the earliest days of DVD when Fox tried to pull that with Predator and a few others.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
When people think a video release is half-assed they often wait for a better release.
Sometimes that strategy pays off well, like with The Fifth Element and Gladiator.
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