DmC was changed a lot due to fan feedback/public outcry and DMC4... well, I kind of doubt Capcom had their game concept together by 2005 considering how long it took for that game to release.
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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
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DmC was changed a lot due to fan feedback/public outcry and DMC4... well, I kind of doubt Capcom had their game concept together by 2005 considering how long it took for that game to release.
dreamer3kx
Member
Just started this up, is there a camera issue in this game, playing this pc version and sometimes the cam would get stuck when rotating.
You've pretty much beautifully summed up my feelings for the entire DMC series. Kudos.
Fantastic post.
While I agree with the majority of you said, this stuck me as off. Of course there is a disconnect between DMC3 dante and DMC1 dante. Dante in DMC3 was a reckless asshole of a kid, whose entire character arc revolved around maturing into the person that he'd become in DMC1. That was literally the entire point of the story. He grew up. DMC4 dante has no such excuse, because that takes place after DMC1 and there is no given reason why he regressed to his childhood immaturity, but DMC3 wasn't a bastardization, it was character development.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EYxjSEjoxqs
Damn someone beat my record for beating the Hunter....
I SAID GOD DAMN!!!!
Also DMC3's story > DMC1's story. It's not even close really. DMC1's story failed at the starting cutscene when it introduced Trish as a main character in the game... a demonic clone of Eva. I never understood why people hype up Kamiya's direction with the DMC story.... it was so plot hole ridden that Capcom had to make a whole game to fill in some of the blanks in the game. And before anyone brings up that novel, Kamiya didn't write that and the tone/story is way different from DMC1 as it is.
Veelt: I looked at the concept arts and I couldn't find the graffiti in the levels of the game. Granted I haven't unlocked everything but I don't think it's in the concept art section.
Damn someone beat my record for beating the Hunter....
I SAID GOD DAMN!!!!
Also DMC3's story > DMC1's story. It's not even close really. DMC1's story failed at the starting cutscene when it introduced Trish as a main character in the game... a demonic clone of Eva. I never understood why people hype up Kamiya's direction with the DMC story.... it was so plot hole ridden that Capcom had to make a whole game to fill in some of the blanks in the game. And before anyone brings up that novel, Kamiya didn't write that and the tone/story is way different from DMC1 as it is.
Veelt: I looked at the concept arts and I couldn't find the graffiti in the levels of the game. Granted I haven't unlocked everything but I don't think it's in the concept art section.
I think the marketing for the game continued to be as bad, though. I went into the game thinking the character was going to be the most annoying douche I'd ever had to play as, but he ended up being way more likable than I ever anticipated.
It's not about being better, exactly, as much as setting the right tone. DMC1 dante cracked jokes, but was a much more serious character than most people seem to remember. It also set up much of the universe that the other games base their story around. The demon world, Sparda, his weapons, etc.
I think DMC3 is a much better story than DMC1, but it's clear that there is a difference in tone of DMC3 dante and DMC1 dante. However, that was intentional as him getting to DMC1 dante was his character arc in that game. DMC4 Dante, however, however doesn't really have such an explanation. Even if DMC4's story had been written well in it's own context, it'd be out of place in the series as a whole because Dante is like a caricature of himself.
Ah well. Thanks for trying anyway. Maybe they're in the other concept art or some kind modder will find the folder that contains the textures for them and post them up.
So having finished DmC and quite liking it I decided to start up DMC4 again. Man, I forgot a lot about this game. The DMC1 style camera angles, the length of the missions, the rev mechanic (which I mastered back in the day, but now hardly understand), the fact that you don't buy new moves with red orbs (I hate this!) and respawning enemies between level segments. I actually find myself enjoying the action in DmC more than the early parts of DMC4. In part because Nero's move list is quite barren, especially at the start, and also because the early enemy encounters don't feel substantial (2 or 3 canon fodder enemies here and there).
And yeah, the story in DMC4 is fucking atrocious. The over the top combat cinematics (Nero fighting Dante for instance) are way more entertaining than any cutscene in DmC though.
And yeah, the story in DMC4 is fucking atrocious. The over the top combat cinematics (Nero fighting Dante for instance) are way more entertaining than any cutscene in DmC though.
You are a fucking saint, LHK. Very well said.
True, but that's not really a fair comparison. DMC4 is so bad because it fucks the past games mythology inside out while still being terrible in it's own context. DmC can only be terrible in it's own context because it doesn't have any canon to screw up.
You should be ashamed of this. Also DmC doesn't have you buying new moves with red orbs either.
Abilities should be gained through combat experience not through going around the missions scavenging for red orbs.
This is exactly why DMC4 is worse than DmC in the story. DMC4's story is more offensive to the main canon than DmC is even if you had placed DmC as a prequel to DMC3. As far as I am concerned, canon wise the only thing that DmC does very wrong is the characterization of Sparda. It's still possible that Vergil's character develops into a more bad ass self but the damage to Sparda has been done already.
fi1ip
Member
I absolutely agree with this. DMC3 has by far the best story in the series. It's as good as a story can be for this king of a video game, as far as I'm concerned.
Monocle
Member
Maybe he was bored. Being nearly invincible and having no real challenges to look forward to might do that to a person.
Yep and I hated it in DmC to. I'm never going to buy items aside from items that permanently increase your DT gauge or life meter. Red orbs basically are worthless to me in this scenario, plus I enjoyed the old system of a single monetary system for both items and moves.
It's not terrible, though. It's basic, cliched, and unoriginal, and it's certainly not going to win any awards, but it's executed rather well, I think.
It's poor writing in general. They should've made the characters, bosses and enemies a real challenge for Dante so that he doesn't just troll through DMC4 saving Nero's ass. There is 0 tension and build up in the Dante arc of the story.
You use the red orbs to buy Life and DT gauge which is still a substantial resource investment. In DmC, I maxed out my skills EARLIER than maxing out my gauges. Imagine having to make a choice between increasing DT gauge/health gauge and having your skills delayed in the long run.... oh wait I don't have to imagine I have played DMC1/DMC3 and it was a shitty system back then too that could be easily exploited to gain moves really fast by just farming orb spots. The whole appeal of the combat system is getting those moves and leveling up... getting it through red orb farming cheapens the experience. You want to get combat skills through combat and you want the currency segregated for this because then you can easily refund skills or try them out.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Angry Joe uploaded a fantastic review of this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4NaBrFkiDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4NaBrFkiDo
Much better than the shit they pulled off in previous games.
Wow, this is just terrible lol
The big problem with DMC4's Dante was that it was trying to tie DMC1 and DMC3 together, while creating a new storyline that was supposed to branch out into its own thing. Even though I quite liked DMC4 Dante, he was major contradiction in terms of the connections they were establishing. They tried to retain the free spirited personality from DMC3 and merge it with the somewhat stern, roguish and cocky nature of DMC1 Dante. Which were, and this needs to be said again, an entirely different interpretations.
That's one of the big problems with previous games. The continuity is all screwed up, and they tried to cherry pick the best parts and just continue on with those.
Monocle
Member
It's terrible.
Problem is that there is no real reason that he should be invincible (or anywhere close to the power of sparda, like the game idiotically suggests) or that he demons he faces should be so weak that they are helpless against him. Berial is the conquerer of Hell in Mundus' place, yet he has arguably the most undignified death of all the bosses.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Thanks for taking the time and respond. I wanted your thoughts specifically because you have been a fan since early times and you love DMC1 as well, and yet at the same time you have seemed more drawn to DmC than a lot of people - although I suspect a lot of it is probably exacerbated by the behaviors on the internet (I really hate the word "hater")
lowhighkang_LHK said:
DMC1 is my favorite game too. Actually, it is my favorite game of all time. I have been wondering if what we got out of DMC1 was more a fluke than anything else - if it didn't start as a Resident Evil game perhaps the creepy atmosphere would probably not be there - I don't know. DMC1 does have the best enemies, best sense of adventure, and I really love the weapons in that game. Every weapons and every moves feel powerful and impactful.
DMC4 for me actually had pretty good enemies if only their AI/difficulties were buffed up. The last 20 level of Bloody Palace showed me just how lethal the enemies could be, rather than being "punching bags".
As for the backtracking and content recycling, I don't have any proof of this, but I always feel that the team ran into development trouble. It was Capcom's one of the first major AAA HD games, and everytime I play the game from beginning I could sense just how ambitious the game was trying to be - 60 fps, the graphics, the lighting, the details in environment/character model, the glorious opening cutscenes with Nero/dante,new character/new gameplay mechanics, a different DT for Nero, a potential story involving a some sort of return with Vergil/Yamato and an older Dante etc. etc. Then something happened and the majority of the game content got recycled. This is part of the reason why I don't agree when some people say the franchise has gotten stale - it hasn't, the introduction of Nero and the evolution of Dante's gameplay all show that. But then there's RE6...
lowhighkang_LHK said:
I really liked what Capcom did with Uncle Dante - his looks, his demeanor, the subtle changes in the voice acting by Rueben Langdon. Funnily - DMC4 accomplished more than what Kojima wanted with MGS2 for me - that Kojima wanted a new character partially because so the players could experience Snake through an outside perspective. I felt that with DMC4 and I appreciated Dante a lot. The problem was with the story and where they decided to take it, which was nowhere. I wouldn't have minded (as much) if Capcom went through with passing the torch. But even that didn't happen
lowhighkang_LHK said:
it really sucks (in a sense) that Itsuno is busy with DD. Personally, I would want to see at least one more in-house game (this is even more DmC was introduced) come out to get a fuller assessment on the future of the franchise, on whether or not it has run dry. Would it be better than DMC1 or 3? Hard to say, and probably not. Yet I am curious to see the evolution of the concepts that Itsuno and his team started with DMC3. With more experience now developing for the HD twins, and possibly more realistic expectations for development, I want to see what Capcom and come up with.
As with everything there are certain things we will just agree to disagree. For me DmC represents a step backwards, especially after 5 years of waiting. I can see how there are different things that DmC has done that can be considered growth for the franchise, like platforming, emphasis on environmental design, facial mo cap, etc. - but from what I have seen the game really is better to stand on its own rather than being attached to the franchise - and then I get mad thinking now the future of the franchise might depend or be replaced with DmC, however fun it might be.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
When he reaches over I can't help but smile. <3
At least meth addict Donte from the original trailer still had Twosome Time. What happened, Donte? 
Original Dante is an unstoppable killing machine. His challenges need to be more personal like Mundus and Vergil. Inserting Dante into the Nero/Order of the Sword storyline is like having Superman rescue kittens.
Original Dante is an unstoppable killing machine. His challenges need to be more personal like Mundus and Vergil. Inserting Dante into the Nero/Order of the Sword storyline is like having Superman rescue kittens.
The boss fights suck, all of them.
The Hunter is the best and you can beat him in 10 seconds without any effort, so yeah.
I would agree if not for the cutscenes, they ruined what could be the only legit boss fight in the game.
If he used air hike and neutral evade to shoot 3 darts at a time it could still be quicker.
LOL, I'll delve into this later, but I'm just saying I was entertained by it, unlike many other games.
And that's why if it was named anything else besides DmC, it probably would've done much better.
BeautifulMemory
Member
wait help me understand why some of you think DMC4's story is terrible canon wise - from reading the posts it seems that the some of the problems lie around Dante's personality (acting more like DMC3 Dante despite being older than DMC1 Dante), no apparent motivation to his character development/involvement, etc. Is that right?
I didn't think it was that bad, even canon wise. I just felt the problem with DMC4's story as a whole is it never gone anywhere, and everything was just poorly hinted - Dante's involvement, Nero as a character, possible lineage between Nero and Vergil, etc.
I can see how there might be problems with DMC4 Dante's behaviors if that's the case. But at the same time I thought he was fine - he talked a lot of shit (and some of the lines were really cheesy) but I did get the more "serious" tone from him
I didn't think it was that bad, even canon wise. I just felt the problem with DMC4's story as a whole is it never gone anywhere, and everything was just poorly hinted - Dante's involvement, Nero as a character, possible lineage between Nero and Vergil, etc.
I can see how there might be problems with DMC4 Dante's behaviors if that's the case. But at the same time I thought he was fine - he talked a lot of shit (and some of the lines were really cheesy) but I did get the more "serious" tone from him
It IS a legit boss fight though even with cutscene interruptions. It's actually pretty fun and you really need to use a good portion of your tools to bring him down.
I have to wonder though if we can do the same trick on the final boss as that Hunter vid. Stick him with needles then Demon Dodge + DT into explosion.
The whole Nero thing was poorly handled and really brings a shit ton of questions about the old canon. What the fuck was Vergil doing prior to DMC3? Just a lot of holes in his entire origin story.
Dante being on par with Sparda is also a big no no especially since DMC1 where he needed Sparda's power to bring down Mundus or else he would've fallen like his brother. Dante being portrayed as a Superman type character does not work well and takes out any tension in the story.
The characters of Trish and Lady were thrown in for no other reason aside from fan service. Trish apparently dropped a considerable amount of IQ when she gave the Sparda sword to the head of the Order. The whole Trish = Gloria thing was ripped straight from DMC3 but it was just so poorly handled that the "reveal" was like "what really? Ok that's stupid". Lady had absolutely zero input to the story and was a disservice of the character.
The whole Angel + science plot device in the story was god awful especially since Yamato was at the center of it. Where did he get that sword from? Trying to mix science in with the supernatural was a bad angle to pursue when the game was already trying to juggle other plot lines. I get what they were trying to go with this... they wanted to make devil arms something related to the story but it was implemented poorly.
Nero + Kyrie plot was terribad as well. Teen romance, damsel in distress, "you are you" ending etc.
The list goes on and on. It's a bad story when taken in a vacuum and it's a bad story when compared to previous DMC games. It tried to do too much and ended up doing nothing well.
I have to wonder though if we can do the same trick on the final boss as that Hunter vid. Stick him with needles then Demon Dodge + DT into explosion.
That's one of the reasons. Dante's personality reverted back to DMC3's personality even after going through the stuff in DMC1. He didn't mature at all despite getting older. It's like Dante is fully aware he is in a video game and he's in on the joke while the rest of the characters are just reveling in his godliness.
The whole Nero thing was poorly handled and really brings a shit ton of questions about the old canon. What the fuck was Vergil doing prior to DMC3? Just a lot of holes in his entire origin story.
Dante being on par with Sparda is also a big no no especially since DMC1 where he needed Sparda's power to bring down Mundus or else he would've fallen like his brother. Dante being portrayed as a Superman type character does not work well and takes out any tension in the story.
The characters of Trish and Lady were thrown in for no other reason aside from fan service. Trish apparently dropped a considerable amount of IQ when she gave the Sparda sword to the head of the Order. The whole Trish = Gloria thing was ripped straight from DMC3 but it was just so poorly handled that the "reveal" was like "what really? Ok that's stupid". Lady had absolutely zero input to the story and was a disservice of the character.
The whole Angel + science plot device in the story was god awful especially since Yamato was at the center of it. Where did he get that sword from? Trying to mix science in with the supernatural was a bad angle to pursue when the game was already trying to juggle other plot lines. I get what they were trying to go with this... they wanted to make devil arms something related to the story but it was implemented poorly.
Nero + Kyrie plot was terribad as well. Teen romance, damsel in distress, "you are you" ending etc.
The list goes on and on. It's a bad story when taken in a vacuum and it's a bad story when compared to previous DMC games. It tried to do too much and ended up doing nothing well.
Meh, I disagree, I think it's pretty dumb, gives you way too many grapple opportunities and you can just use a single move since any more complex combo (even basic ones) will be interrupted by a cutscene anyway. Maybe if it wasn't the final boss fight. I don't know...
The bosses, lack of lock-on, color-coded enemies and the story are the worst things about the game IMO.
One of them can be fixed with Bloody Palace, will NT have the guts to admit color-coded enemies are garbage and leave them out of my BP?
Well, what your entertained by is different from whats actually good. I honestly don't mean that as an insult or anything either. In fact, I was highly entertained by DMC4 Dante trolling in the background myself, but I acknowledge that it's inconsistent with Dante's established character and that DMC4 is horribly written. If you enjoyed DmC, good for you, it'd just be hard to argue that it's good writing.
Too late for that. Just enjoy Vergil's Downfall and hope they get the message for the inevitable sequel.
And the last boss is terrible. Have to agree on that.
Mundus' Spawn is the best boss in the game. Come at me, playboys.
I came in expecting horrible things due to NT's past performances. Having finished this now, the game isn't terrible by any means, nor is it great. Clearly their best performing and overall game thus far, but it didn't leave me with any yearning for a sequel. Main issues were the color coded enemies, camera is terrible at looking where you want it to look, and overall generic enemies. I dug the saturated look of the game, along with the shifting worlds. Combat was serviceable.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Picking the best boss fight in DmC is like trying to figure out which kid to bet on in the Special Olympics.
It's fuckin' sad
It's fuckin' sad
Yeah, I think you're right. Can't wait for the mods.
I think it's top 3 along with Vergil and the Hunter. It's visually appealing but without being completely garbage like the Bob Barbas fight. Mundus in the other hand manages to be so bad that it's worse than the Succubus
The final boss is only bad compared to previous games in the series but compared to the other stuff in the game it's easily the best. The final boss has a lot of moves he throws at you and a lot of ways you can negate it/counter it. I found new strategies for beating him every time I fought him, he has more depth to him than it appears. Certainly way, way more than anything else in the game. If he did as much damage as the other bosses per hit... people would be complaining about him on harder difficulties for sure.
It's too bad that everything else is a giant/head thing. Even looking at the concept art of discarded boss fights, they're all in the same vein, lolz.
Ok, I'll give you that much.
He's still the glitchiest boss fight in the game though.
Twice fighting him the glitch activated where he would just walk around you doing nothing. One time his AI glitched out and all he did was Summoned Swords attacks until the next cutscene. Another time he started floating in the air. Twice his Doppelganger glitched out when Vergil was at pixel health. I couldn't hit Doppelganger regularly because he was literally humping on Vergil so it initiated an auto parry. I had to use Flush to hit the Doppelganger from a far to build the purple gauge in order to DT.
Plus a lot of funky stuff happens when you try to trick the AI too much.
Plus a lot of funky stuff happens when you try to trick the AI too much.
Everyone is chasing God of War and trying to make these epic, grand boss fights. Give me one on one sword combat with no bullshit any day of the week.
Thank God for Rising in that regard.
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