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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!

T

ThoughtsOfSpeaking

Banned
badcrumble said:
As I alluded to in my previous post, I think any sort of postmortem for this game from Capcom and NT's end is going to be very interesting.

Should their relationship come to an end, I wonder if Ninja Theory folks will end up issuing recriminations towards Capcom like they did toward Sony and Namco-Bandai. And I'm curious what Alex Jones et al. will have to say, if they say anything at all, about where the series goes next.
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I'm calling it now.

Alex jones specifically is fucked. He was largely behind the selection of ninja theory, and he was a producer that hadnt worked on anything of note before from a branch of capcom that is more known for marketing and localisation than games development.

Even if the mothership overall is happy enough with NT to give them another go, jones won't be given another project and probably will be fired outright.
 
M

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
badcrumble said:
As I alluded to in my previous post, I think any sort of postmortem for this game from Capcom and NT's end is going to be very interesting.

Should their relationship come to an end, I wonder if Ninja Theory folks will end up issuing recriminations towards Capcom like they did toward Sony and Namco-Bandai. And I'm curious what Alex Jones et al. will have to say, if they say anything at all, about where the series goes next.
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Oooooh missed that, need to look for it.
 
P

Pein

Banned
Its capcoms fault, there was no marketing behind this game. I don't think a commercial even exists for the game.
 
A

AcceptableGhost

Member
rvy said:
Not if the stone landed on one of those heads I mentioned.
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Look at Ninja Theory's past games. If Capcom was able to coax a game out of them that doesn't make your console commit suicide than I bet they could have gotten better or equal results with almost any company. Without Capcom's involvement this game would be worse than DMC2.
 
A

antitrop

Member
I 1000/1000'd Terminator Salvation and played a fair bit of Bionic Commando.

I refuse to accept that Heavenly Sword, Enslaved, or DmC are worse than either of those games.

Wife Arm is literally an unforgivable tragedy and a dark cloud over the entire industry.
 
R

rvy

Banned
MTMBStudios said:
Look at Ninja Theory's past games. If Capcom was able to coax a game out of them that doesn't make your console commit suicide than I bet they could have gotten better or equal results with almost any company.
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KuGsj.gif


Your posts are amazing. I don't disagree that Capcom's involvement was vital btw.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I have to laugh at people suggesting that Capcom will shelve the DMC franchise as a whole. That's not happening, despite whatever happens with the sales of DmC.


ari said:
Nothing was wrong with this game, Ninja theory did a great job. Marketing and release date hurt it.
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? The game had plenty of chances to do well. The marketing was fine, great publicity from reviewers. I'm tired of people spouting that the marketing for DmC was non-existent. It wasn't. It may have been cheaper or comparable to DMC4's ad campaign, but the online presence of DmC was felt in every gaming outlet. And DMC4 never received that "post marketing push" either, so there's no excuse.

The release date couldn't have been better. A dry month with no competition, a month before its biggest competitor. It had tons of time and space to breathe and fluorish.
 
I

iavi

Member
Aaron said:
DMC tells me there's a devil, so character, who may or may not cry, so something to look forward to. Remember me is something a bad actor says when he makes his sad comeback.
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But it reads so awkwardly. 'The devil may cry', or even 'May the devil cry' (which I really, really like, now that I see it) would have read much better, imo. Series is what the series is, though, and fans love the name. I don't expect that opinion to get very far.

As for 'Remember Me'. It reads well enough. If you want to add context, I don't know why you'd automatically jump to the scene of a bad actor saying it off in a corny way?

Also, the game hasn't flopped. Why are we talking about it as if it has? It didn't meet expectations, and didn't sell as well as the previous entry, but it hasn't flopped sitting at decent spots on every sales chart.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Miizy F Baby said:
But it reads so awkwardly. 'The devil may cry', or even 'May the devil cry' (which I really, really like, now that I see it) would have read much better, imo. Series is what the series is, though, and fans love the name. I don't expect that opinion to get very far.

As for 'Remember Me'. It reads well enough. If you want to add context, I don't know why you'd automatically jump to the scene of a bad actor saying it off in a corny way?

Also, the game hasn't flopped. Why are we talking about it as if it has? It didn't meet expectations, and didn't sell as well as the previous entry, but it hasn't flopped sitting at decent spots on every sales chart.
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It's a play off of "Devil-May-Care". The title works fine.

And as for flopping? Well, it's all a matter of perspective, isn't it? After all, DMC4 retroactively became a flop to Capcom, and everyone gobbled up those PR releases that made no sense. DmC was expected to sell a modest 2 million in its first year. That's being very generous and taking into account that it's a new direction. Hopefully we'll get more solid numbers.

Also, topping sales charts in an otherwise dead month doesn't mean much. The game was expected to do better. It had every opportunity to.
 
I

iavi

Member
GuardianE said:
My point is that "The Devil May Cry" doesn't work on the play off the phrase because you would never say "the devil may care".
Click to expand...

'The Devil May Care' reads fantastically, and is damn haunting, imo. I actually love that. I don't get what you're saying. Why would no one ever say 'the devil may care'?

GuardianE said:
Also, topping sales charts in an otherwise dead month doesn't mean much. The game was expected to do better. It had every opportunity to.
Click to expand...

Enslaved flopped. This didn't (or better: I don't think it did, as no numbers to the budget has come out). The PS3 version just passed 150k in Japan alone. PC sales aren't taken into account, and while we won't know exact #s of west till later, it has sat well on the charts.

Semantics, though; I see you want to include Capcom's expectations in the mix, which they should be to an extent, I guess.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Miizy F Baby said:
'The Devil May Care' reads fantastically, and is damn haunting, imo. I actually love that. I don't get what you're saying. Why would no one ever say 'the devil may care'?



Enslaved flopped. This didn't (or better: I don't think it did, as no numbers to the budget has come out). The PS3 version just passed 150k in Japan alone. PC sales aren't taken into account, and while we won't know exact #s of west till later, it has sat well on the charts.

Semantics, though; I see you want to include Capcom's expectations in the mix, which they should be to an extent, I guess.
Click to expand...

Because that's not the phrase. "Devil may care" generally refers to an attitude or approach. It's an adjective, not meant to literally mean that the Devil will or won't care about something. "Devil may cry" just seems more natural to me because of its origin. I guess we just disagree on that.

I think we should include Capcom's expectations into any discussion about sales or flopping because ultimately that's who determines the future of the series. I really want to see some hard numbers from a reliable source.
 
I

iavi

Member
GuardianE said:
Because that's not the phrase. "Devil may care" generally refers to an attitude or approach. It's an adjective, not meant to literally mean that the Devil will or won't care about something. "Devil may cry" just seems more natural to me because of its origin. I guess we just disagree on that.

I think we should include Capcom's expectations into any discussion about sales or flopping because ultimately that's who determines the future of the series. I really want to see some hard numbers from a reliable source.
Click to expand...

ohhhhhhhh. 'Devil May Care' is an actual idiom. I get what you're saying now. I've never heard that said.

We're approaching it from two different angles then. I still prefer mine though lol

as for the sales, you have a point. It's why I didn't really contend, though I like to look at 'flops' relative to the money spent to produce.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Miizy F Baby said:
But it reads so awkwardly. 'The devil may cry', or even 'May the devil cry' (which I really, really like, now that I see it) would have read much better, imo. Series is what the series is, though, and fans love the name. I don't expect that opinion to get very far.
Click to expand...
Because it's Japanese and they use crazy English, I automatically give it a pass for that.
 
BadAss2961

BadAss2961

Member
GuardianE said:
I have to laugh at people suggesting that Capcom will shelve the DMC franchise as a whole. That's not happening, despite whatever happens with the sales of DmC.




What the hell are you talking about? The game had plenty of chances to do well. The marketing was fine, great publicity from reviewers. I'm tired of people spouting that the marketing for DmC was non-existent. It wasn't. It may have been cheaper or comparable to DMC4's ad campaign, but the online presence of DmC was felt in every gaming outlet. And DMC4 never received that "post marketing push" either, so there's no excuse.

The release date couldn't have been better. A dry month with no competition, a month before its biggest competitor. It had tons of time and space to breathe and fluorish.
Click to expand...
Exactly. There really is no excuse.

I imagine the demo didn't help much either. It just wasn't all that interesting, and ran poorly on consoles. PS3 especially.
 
Facism

Facism

Member
Thankfully the HD collection is doing well enough that we'll get a proper DMC game in 6 years.

But, capcom. DmC2 incoming. Hopefully they can make a truly great game now they have a basis for it. Hopefully they drop that teenager's obession with "OMG TEH MEDIA IS CONTROLLING US OMMMGG WHY DOESN'T ANYONE SEE IT OMMMG /Alex Jones fan" truther conspiracy-theorist nonsense.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
The media IS controlling you if you let it. Nothing wrong with that aspect of DmC, imho. More games need to do it. The more, the better. :D
 
G

Gbraga

Member
V_Arnold said:
The media IS controlling you if you let it. Nothing wrong with that aspect of DmC, imho. More games need to do it. The more, the better. :D
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I agree, but DmC didn't do it properly imo, it needs to be a lot better than that to make sense. The way it was presented in DmC was more like "THE MEDIA IS EVIL, ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STOP THEM?"
 
J

jett

D-Member
The concepts introduced in DmC are in interesting but they are all executed in the most banal and superficial way possible.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Gbraga said:
I agree, but DmC didn't do it properly imo, it needs to be a lot better than that to make sense. The way it was presented in DmC was more like "THE MEDIA IS EVIL, ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO STOP THEM?"
Click to expand...

Yeah, the execution definitely was off, that is for sure. It would have been great if all would have went on inside Dante's head while being in a psychiatric ward, and stuff he did in Limbo would have allowed him to free himself, or something like that.

Thing is, the demonizing of "conspiracy theories" and even mentioning freaks like Alex Jones who honestly does nothing but widens the gap between those who "believe" that and those who do not clearly shows that there is an interest in keeping up the lack of communication between these parties :p But that might not be the topic of a DmC thread anyway :D
 
Facism

Facism

Member
V_Arnold said:
Yeah, the execution definitely was off, that is for sure. It would have been great if all would have went on inside Dante's head while being in a psychiatric ward, and stuff he did in Limbo would have allowed him to free himself, or something like that.

Thing is, the demonizing of "conspiracy theories" and even mentioning freaks like Alex Jones who honestly does nothing but widens the gap between those who "believe" that and those who do not clearly shows that there is an interest in keeping up the lack of communication between these parties :p But that might not be the topic of a DmC thread anyway :D
Click to expand...

my mentions were meant to show that i didn't believe they put enough thought into their themes and ideas and merely regurgitated prefab political and social opinions as their own, without actually delving into what media control means, or how much a problem of vice and indulgence can be.

I find it hard to take a dev, that went out of their way to make a "fashionable" dante, seriously when it comes to such things.

I'm shit at getting my point across :) I think it's nice to have this discussion, though.
 
D

danmaku

Member
Facism said:
my mentions were meant to show that i didn't believe they put enough thought into their themes and ideas and merely regurgitated prefab political and social opinions as their own, without actually delving into what media control means, or how much a problem of vice and indulgence can be.

I find it hard to take a dev, that went out of their way to make a "fashionable" dante, seriously when it comes to such things.

I'm shit at getting my point across :) I think it's nice to have this discussion, though.
Click to expand...

You should also consider that DmC isn't exactly the best kind of game to develop these themes. In an action, you just need an excuse to kill monsters, the rest is background noise. But anyway, the game is designed with a blockbuster mentality: everything needs to be very simple and straightforward, no gray areas allowed. A is evil (and ugly), B is good (and sexy), and so on. I don't expect anything valuable out of this (though it can be entertaining).

About the game, I'm 6 hours in and honestly the most shocking thing about it is how similar it is to the old DMCs. Not only the combat, even the mission structure, unlockables, golden orbs, red goo, it's all the same (almost). What were they thinking with all that terrible PR work? it's insane.

The new character design is not great by any mean, but I like to see Dante and Vergil fighting side by side instead of being enemies. It's a nice idea, but I have the terrible feeling that this is just preparation for an awful plot twist where Vergil betrays his organization for some stupid reason and then you fight him. Please, someone tell me I'm wrong (under spoiler tag, ofc).
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
danmaku said:
The new character design is not great by any mean, but I like to see Dante and Vergil fighting side by side instead of being enemies. It's a nice idea, but I have the terrible feeling that this is just preparation for an awful plot twist where Vergil betrays his organization for some stupid reason and then you fight him. Please, someone tell me I'm wrong (under spoiler tag, ofc).
Click to expand...

lol
 
G

Gbraga

Member
V_Arnold said:
Yeah, the execution definitely was off, that is for sure. It would have been great if all would have went on inside Dante's head while being in a psychiatric ward, and stuff he did in Limbo would have allowed him to free himself, or something like that.

Thing is, the demonizing of "conspiracy theories" and even mentioning freaks like Alex Jones who honestly does nothing but widens the gap between those who "believe" that and those who do not clearly shows that there is an interest in keeping up the lack of communication between these parties :p But that might not be the topic of a DmC thread anyway :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree completely. In fact, the TGS 2010 trailer was far more interesting storywise than the redesigned version we saw in 2011.

I'm sure what we got is a vastly superior game though, so I'm ok with that.
 
Facism

Facism

Member
danmaku said:
You should also consider that DmC isn't exactly the best kind of game to develop these themes. In an action, you just need an excuse to kill monsters, the rest is background noise. But anyway, the game's is designed with a blockbuster mentality: everything needs to be very simple and straightforward, no gray areas allowed. A is evil (and ugly), B is good (and sexy), and so on. I don't expect anything valuable out of this (though it can be entertaining).
Click to expand...

Indeed. It's shame they didn't take the opportunity, whether of their own lack of volition, focus-groups or Capcom's shackles, to expand on a rotten world filled with rotten people.

About the game, I'm 6 hours in and honestly the most shocking thing about it is how similar it is to the old DMCs. Not only the combat, even the mission structure, unlockables, golden orbs, red goo, it's all the same (almost). What were they thinking with all that terrible PR work? it's insane.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's DMC in flow and format. A missed opportunity to expand on the established frameworks and mechanics, minus the spectacle. Probably the most disappointing aspect of the game for me.
 
I

itwasTuesday

He wasn't alone.
I just watched Battleship again, and those spinning red things are like the spinning yellow things in DmC. Which Donte is oddly afraid of?
 
V

Veelk

Banned
danmaku said:
You should also consider that DmC isn't exactly the best kind of game to develop these themes. In an action, you just need an excuse to kill monsters, the rest is background noise. But anyway, the game's is designed with a blockbuster mentality: everything needs to be very simple and straightforward, no gray areas allowed. A is evil (and ugly), B is good (and sexy), and so on. I don't expect anything valuable out of this (though it can be entertaining).
Click to expand...

But this is exactly what DmC did. Kat and Dante are obviously good, while Vergil is clearly a sociopath and Mundus is cartoonishly evil. Phineas is meant to add a 'gray' area to demonkind, but there is nothing indicating that he wasn't entirely good.

DMC3, on the other hand, legitimately had gray areas with Vergil, Dante, and Lady and, shockingly, this didn't hurt the game at all.
 
dark_chris

dark_chris

Member
I definitely enjoyed this game. I just beat it and was just so into more than the previous installations (im glad there was no backtracking bs).
 
D

danmaku

Member
Veelk said:
But this is exactly what DmC did. Kat and Dante are obviously good, while Vergil is clearly a sociopath and Mundus is cartoonishly evil. Phineas is meant to add a 'gray' area to demonkind, but there is nothing indicating that he wasn't entirely good.
Click to expand...

That's what I was trying to say, but my typo made it confusing :-/

DMC3, on the other hand, legitimately had gray areas with Vergil, Dante, and Lady and, shockingly, this didn't hurt the game at all.
Click to expand...

It doesn't hurt the game, it's just unnecessary, especially if you're gunning for the lowest common denominator.

Retro_ said:
lol
Click to expand...

Does this mean "lol you're right" or "lol you're wrong"? D:
 
V

vg260

Member
antitrop said:
The success of DMC HD is obviously what gives me the most hope that they won't just retire the franchise outright from here.
Hardly seems logical to axe it outright, there is clearly still interest.

Hell, maybe next-gen Capcom will actually realize fans want a horror-based Resident Evil game and a true sequel to the original Devil May Cry.
Click to expand...

I also read recently on Unity that Inafune pushed this westernization before he left. So maybe those remaining don't share the sentiment.
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
With all this talk of titles, I just realized that Devil May Cry: Devil May Cry is probably the worst variation they could've gone with. Even "The Devil May Cry" would be a better reboot title, as awful as that is.

2&2 said:
I also read recently on Unity that Inafune pushed this westernization before he left. So maybe those remaining don't share the sentiment.
Click to expand...

I've heard about a conspiracy theory where Inafune pushed for a DMC reboot knowing that megaman was dead and he wouldn't be sticking around for much longer, just so Capcom would be stuck with it after he was gone. Not particularly likely but pretty funny.
 
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