DmC Review Thread (Release Date - 1/15/13) Embargo is over!

SolidSnakex said:
Like pizzaroll said, it just sounds like he's saying exactly what Capcom has said. They're trying to sell this game. And the whole company line behind it is that people were apparently tired of the "old" DMC style and wanted something different.
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I don't think it's marketing speak. This is Capcom's 2nd attempt at creating a new direction for the franchise and replacing Dante as the main character. Itsuno might have some gameplay ideas but I don't think he knows what to do with the character and direction of Dante post-DMC1.
 
GuardianE said:
I think he's specifically addressing Darkness_Bear's posts. And it's fairly representative of his drive-by trolls.
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Amir0x said:
I'm talking JUST about Darkness Bear and nobody else. He had a similar meltdown over Assassin's Creed 3, and he has a similar meltdown every time he loves a game that the community has some backlash against. Doesn't matter how legitimate the criticisms are, because he never addresses them. His sole modus operandi is to bitch about the fact that people are being criticial, instead of just addressing the points being made and saying why he feels they are wrong.

If prodded, he'll usually say "i'm not wasting my time with you" or something similar, or he'll maybe start with the most basic response before immediately reverting back to the attacks against the community as a whole who he deems as being wildly unfair to his sacred cow
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My bad then. I admit, though: I am more prone to recognizing troll/hater posts than those that try to discourage any (valid or invalid) criticism to this game. Most likely because of my bias - I am one of those that actually anticipates the game (or, to be more precise, the Vergil's Downfall :P) .
 
Chamber said:
I don't think it's marketing speak. This is Capcom's 2nd attempt at creating a new direction for the franchise and replacing Dante as the main character. Itsuno might have some gameplay ideas but I don't think he knows what to do with the character and direction of Dante post-DMC1.
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I don't think they knew what to do with the franchise aesthetically. Looking at DMC4 it seems as if they were still stuck on Resident Evil-derived mansions and lairs. I wonder if Capcom execs considered it an issue for the future.
 
Dahbomb said:
They don't go up like a breeze in the demo either unless you use the Demon dodge.
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I do. And they were not going up like that. Will compare if I have a minute. Should have the demo downloaded somewhere.

Also do they actually go down in letter grade if you don't do anything or do they stay the same letter?
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They stay the same, yep.
 
Devil May cry threads are battlezones, but there are some good discussions usually buried in them. That's probably why I'm so addicted to these threads even though I don't plan on getting the game.

If you want the OG style of DMC gameplay, it's been my understanding that Bayonetta is that thing, refined. So you have somewhere to go.
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Ehhh...Bayonetta is actually very different than DMC in terms of combat. Bayonetta with you trying to achieve complete combos for wicked weaves via cancels/dodge offset and DMC is more open in that you don't ever need to complete combos for anything. You can do whatever you want for the most part and are rewarded for experimentation in the style system. I love both but prefer how much more open DMC is and expect that standard from the main games in the series.
 
aegies said:
Ninja Theory is operating under Capcom's mandate and instruction. They told them to change the look and visual style. And I can even understand where Capcom is coming from. They want to appeal to a broader audience and reinvent a stagnant series.

If you want the OG style of DMC gameplay, it's been my understanding that Bayonetta is that thing, refined. So you have somewhere to go.
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Bayonetta is pretty different from "OG DMC gameplay" so calling it that refined is kind of awkward. Also how does DmC appeal to a broader demographic? You look at this games style and you think it screams broad market? Saying the series is stagnant is a huge joke too.

At least this gives me a good indication of where the game journos discussions about DmC on podcasts are going to go. That week in podcasts is going to be so obnoxious. "A significant downgrade in combat with an identical structure to the older games but with HIP GRAPHICS was WHERE THIS SERIES NEEDED TO GO".
 
Amir0x said:
I'm talking JUST about Darkness Bear and nobody else. He had a similar meltdown over Assassin's Creed 3, and he has a similar meltdown every time he loves a game that the community has some backlash against. Doesn't matter how legitimate the criticisms are, because he never addresses them. His sole modus operandi is to bitch about the fact that people are being criticial, instead of just addressing the points being made and saying why he feels they are wrong.

If prodded, he'll usually say "i'm not wasting my time with you" or something similar, or he'll maybe start with the most basic response before immediately reverting back to the attacks against the community as a whole who he deems as being wildly unfair to his sacred cow
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Alright you win, here I am. But no that generalizing statement of, "I'm not wasting my time w/ you" is not true w/ most of the people on these boards, only you. You've stated yourself that you like to argue for the sake of arguing and wont back down even if your point isn't correct (playing devils advocate). So I usually find arguing with you completely a waste of time and just consider you more of an extreme for the sake of being extreme poster.

And yes, I'm generally more positive when it comes to the games I play and why not? You can still be critical, yet civil when it comes to a franchise you enjoy or want to enjoy. And there was no lack of hyperbolic criticisms in the AC3 threads, it was really not necessary I jump on board w/ that and the constant berating of something (when it's so damn exaggerated) get's under my skin.

But in this case and the post specifically I was just voicing my goddam annoyance w/ this communities never ending drama regarding every small detail... really the word "genuine" set them off. I'm all for voicing criticisms and standing to what your vision to what a game should be, but this is no longer a community based on the love of a game, but more of a group dedicated to relentlessly bashing a game even if it is unwarranted at times.

It's essentially everything I think is wrong with the gaming community now... wanting/hoping for a game to fail/be bad and getting irate when it receives positive scores. But I'm not saying criticisms should not be discussed, by all means it should be a central discussion. But when you start getting worked up at a developer for things that are so trivial it becomes almost a joke (the way a character says a certain line of dialogue, how a person words their twitter, uncontextualized quotes... or other aesthetic things that wont be mentioned) it becomes a nuisance.

And if you let me, I will gladly be done w/ this entire DmC topic and ignore these threads again (like I've done in the past). Also, I am in the wrong for lumping everyone into one community mindset and I actually think there are a bunch of posters here that really don't deserve to be lumped with the more extreme members.
 
HPAHZ.gif


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So beautiful.
 
I just want a fun action hack and slash about slaying demons. I've been a fan since the start of the series. Day 1. Still here. Not bitching. A miracle I know! All this back and forth crap and how severe it's getting is pretty absurd. Some of you should be ashamed you put this much hatred into a forum discussion.
 
slasher_thrasher21 said:
I just want a fun action hack and slash about slaying demons. I've been a fan since the start of the series. Day 1. Still here. Not bitching. A miracle I know! All this back and forth crap and how severe it's getting is pretty absurd. Some of you should be ashamed you put this much hatred into a forum discussion.
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come on slasher, have you actually read the threads and some of the criticisms/concerns?

We have actually been analyzing/dissecting/discussing this game for a while
 
Hopefully Wig Dante is an unlockable skin. I might be able to enjoy this game as long as Dante has his long, beautiful white hair.
 
Honestly, I'm fine with black-haired Dante with that cut. It looks nice, different, and refreshing. Plus it's more relatable visually than the white-haired dude previously.
 
So the game actively seeks to take the piss out of old franchise fans. Marvelous.

I must have missed the reception to largest selling in the franchise DMC4 that made it some widely hated end of the road for Dante and co as is. Also I guess stuff like Dante and Vergil in MVC3 is some elseworld shit since everyone hates that floppy white haired douche that sold to so few players.

Its like Capcom went on a crack and booze filled bender during which they left messages on all their developers answering machines to the tune of "Fuck it up. Go in a direction they'll all hate." Except the MonHun team have an old ring-dial phone only inkeeping with their "stick to old tech" team motto and never caught word of this venomous new company mandate. The final act of Capcom's unstoppable drunken bender was burying Megaman alive.
 
Darknessbear said:
Alright you win, here I am. But no that generalizing statement of, "I'm not wasting my time w/ you" is not true w/ most of the people on these boards, only you. You've stated yourself that you like to argue for the sake of arguing and wont back down even if your point isn't correct (playing devils advocate). So I usually find arguing with you completely a waste of time and just consider you more of an extreme for the sake of being extreme poster.
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I don't argue just for the sake of argument. I almost always believe in what I'm saying. My world stance is that criticism compels far more interesting conversations than circle jerking, and so I tend to participate far more in one type of discussion than the other. I play devil's advocate occasionally, but I doubt I can even recall the last time I did that because it's very rare. And it's almost always in the service of a point I do believe in.

Darknessbear said:
And yes, I'm generally more positive when it comes to the games I play and why not? You can still be critical, yet civil when it comes to a franchise you enjoy or want to enjoy. And there was no lack of hyperbolic criticisms in the AC3 threads, it was really not necessary I jump on board w/ that and the constant berating of something (when it's so damn exaggerated) get's under my skin.
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I don't care that you're positive. You understand that, right? This criticism of your behavior in these threads is not about you being endlessly optimistic. It's about you attacking others who are being critical, and refusing to actually address their points. Instead, you rely entirely on some commentary about how bad the community is being or how excessive the criticism is and then back away whenever anyone prods you to actually back your position up on why you feel the criticisms are unwarranted.

Darknessbear said:
But in this case and the post specifically I was just voicing my goddam annoyance w/ this communities never ending drama regarding every small detail... really the word "genuine" set them off.
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Let me see if I can point to the problem here, and maybe help you understand how it comes across.

Darknessbear said:
"I'm all for voicing criticisms and standing to what your vision to what a game should be, but this is no longer a community based on the love of a game, but more of a group dedicated to relentlessly bashing a game even if it is unwarranted at times."
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For you, a community for any game must be based on love for it to be a worthwhile community. Whereas, on neoGAF, these communities are not based on love. They're also not based on hate. The community is based on discussion. The problem I have is that you keep dismissing criticism in a way that is trying to stifle discussion. The problem you have is that you think the criticism is stifling the ability for the love to foster and take over, when that's not what neoGAF is about anyway.

If you want a community based almost entirely on 'love', you must find some fanboy community usually focused entirely on the game you like, and then you can have the rainbow/unicorn/fairy tale topic that you seem to desire.

If you want a community based on discussion, no matter how harsh that discussion might be, neoGAF has what you want. And honestly, it can often have great circle jerks, so it's not like you can't find places to enjoy what you're looking for. When I went into the Ghost Trick thread to critique the many problems it had, I was like the first person in a dozen pages who had even said anything negative about the title. The reaction in that topic was embarrassing, but it seems to be what you're looking for. So I recommend you maybe enter a game thread AFTER it has been moved into a game community forum, since that tends to be when the only people left are those who desperately love the game in question.

Darknessbear said:
It's essentially everything I think is wrong with the gaming community now... wanting/hoping for a game to fail/be bad and getting irate when it receives positive scores. But I'm not saying criticisms should not be discussed, by all means it should be a central discussion. But when you start getting worked up at a developer for things that are so trivial it becomes almost a joke (the way a character says a certain line of dialogue, how a person words their twitter, uncontextualized quotes... or other aesthetic things that wont be mentioned) it becomes a nuisance.
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I think in this case, the feeling was that they were somehow suggesting that reviews under a certain point were not 'genuine.' It was a bit kneejerk, but I don't think it was from a desire to see the game fail or be bad either.
 
Pie and Beans said:
So the game actively seeks to take the piss out of old franchise fans. Marvelous.

I must have missed the reception to largest selling in the franchise DMC4 that made it some widely hated end of the road for Dante and co as is. Also I guess stuff like Dante and Vergil in MVC3 is some elseworld shit since everyone hates that floppy white haired douche that sold to so few players.
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I don't understand this, I agree that gameplay wise the franchise was still solid, specially after DMC3 being the jewel it is but every other aspect was a mess story, characters etc... I mean DMC4 was really bad, it was full of anime tropes with overly sexualized cutscenes and giant demonic mechas included, so it boggles my mind that people don't see why Capcom wanted to give some fresh air to the franchise.

I agree that what they did might seem radical but it had to happen anyway.
 
Tony Redgrave said:
I don't understand this, I agree that gameplay wise the franchise was still solid, specially after DMC3 being the jewel it is but every other aspect was a mess story, characters etc... I mean DMC4 was really bad, it was full of anime tropes with overly sexualized cutscenes and giant demonic mechas included, soit boggles my mind that people don't see why Capcom would wanted to give some fresh air to the franchise, I agree that what they did might seem radical but it had to happen anyway.
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So rather than reign it in themselves and make perhaps a little more sense next go around, the go-to solution is to scribble all over it and scream "START AGAIN" like a toddler let loose on an easel? Hell, Dante was even more likeable than ever in DMC4, and Nero grew on me quite a bit throughout the story.

The new SOCIETAL MESSAGE heavy version reboot feels more childish to me than the weird and wacky old series, due to its heavy handedness and deep desire to mean something. Every Vergil monologue I've seen is gag-inducing. If I wanted Ninja Theory's own special brand of overwrought theatrical stage-drama, I would have invested in their two previous failed new IP's. I didn't, and nor did many other people.

At least I got Dragon's Dogma out of Itsuno before his brain started to melt I guess.
 
Acquiescence said:
So in the end, it was always about the hair after all.

Edit - Wait, that's actually in the game?! I thought it was shopped in or something.
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No because the white hair in itself looks fucking stupid. Even moreso in the unlock able skin.

Personally they are both rather insulting. Never have nor will I ever will give a fuck about white hair.
 
Pie and Beans said:
So rather than reign it in themselves and make perhaps a little more sense next go around, the go-to solution is to scribble all over it and scream "START AGAIN" like a toddler let loose on an easel? Hell, Dante was even more likeable than ever in DMC4, and Nero grew on me quite a bit throughout the story.
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There's no "making more sense the next time around" the developers were lost, they didn't know where to go with the franchise because DMC was Dante's opus and they couldn't just go back to prequels after DMC3, they tried to introduce Nero as a replacement and it just made things even worse story-wise like those shows that go on for too long and end up all tangled an non-sensical.

The new SOCIETAL MESSAGE heavy version reboot feels more childish to me than the weird and wacky old series, due to its heavy handedness and deep desire to mean something. Every Vergil monologue I've seen is gag-inducing. If I wanted Ninja Theory's own special brand of overwrought theatrical stage-drama, I would have invested in their two previous failed new IP's. I didn't, and nor did many other people.
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Well, that's personal taste. DMC was always very basic about it's premise and story with DMC3 being the best in that department but still pretty bare bones, aside some interesting but obscure lore it only had Dante's family as a solid story focus. I don't know what's with people blaming developers for trying to put some seriousness behind their stories but societal message or not I am not going to blame them for it.
 
BeautifulMemory said:
Got it. I am actually a subscriber to your videos :)

I just thought in general, at least on NeoGAF, we are past the point of being accused of spewing hate on no grounds.
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Thanks man. No no. Being a long time fan of the series, I can see some of the more hardcore people having some issues. Personally I'm so tired of shooting games that a good hack and slash is right up my alley at the moment so I'm waiting for this pretty badly. I know everyone has different expectations/ wants. My favorite DMC order is still part 1, 3, 4 and 2. I don't care much for the stories in any of them really. I just want some good action, interesting boss battles, and overall have fun. Every DMC besides 2 (which I don't hate as much as everyone else but still was soooo disappointed in) has been a TON of fun. I couldn't stand that DMC 4 made you backtrack the entire way with Dante... yet somehow I still enjoyed it.

I'm not looking for a revolution here with the new DmC and again I'm actually really looking forward to playing it. I've enjoyed the previous Ninja Theory games even though they are not the best games out there, and they don't have to be. Fun is a huge factor for me past all the other bs. If it's not fun for me. That's my ultimate criticism. Even when a game has some other issues at times. I'm more curious to see peoples reaction after having played through it. This is why I don't really score games when I review them. Just point out some glaring issues, say what I thought was really well done, and the rest is up the the gamer.
 
DMC4s story was a tragedy. Anything that didn't involve Dante was a tragedy. Who greenlit that shit?

If Nero wasn't going to take over, what was the point of introducing his ass?

Introduce new dude -> reboot franchise

Yeah, Nero didn't have any swag, but he was learning dammit
 
Tony Redgrave said:
I don't understand this, I agree that gameplay wise the franchise was still solid, specially after DMC3 being the jewel it is but every other aspect was a mess story, characters etc... I mean DMC4 was really bad, it was full of anime tropes with overly sexualized cutscenes and giant demonic mechas included, so it boggles my mind that people don't see why Capcom wanted to give some fresh air to the franchise.

I agree that what they did might seem radical but it had to happen anyway.
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Some people prefer the over-the-top anime-ish nature of the previous DMC compared to the edgy, try-hard style of Donte may Cry. Crazy, I know.
 
Dave1988 said:
Some people prefer the over-the-top anime-ish nature of the previous DMC compared to the edgy, try-hard style of Donte may Cry. Crazy, I know.
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I like over the top anime-ish style when it's due (I love TTGL btw) but DMC4 was a disgrace in that department because the story was a mess and the characters were just bad, they didn't even know what to do with the old cast and the new was uninspired at best, I mean Kyrie? I was trying to save her for the whole game and what did she have two lines of dialogue? The bad guys were after the power of Sparda AGAIN? Dante seemed like he was there just for the lulz etc...
 
Hellion said:
0_o Those gif's can't be real. That can't be in game...

Also fuck them for not using a dmc2 wig. Dmc4 designs are terrible.
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Capcom puts a fat Megaman in SFxT as a tribute to the old Mega Man covers after canceling MML3. The big Megaman announcement was an announcement of a free fanmade Megaman game (though it is kind of awesome that Capcom put the spotlight on fan efforts). They held a Q&A session at Evo to tell the competitive community about all the great ideas that didn't make it into the game and then that UMvC3 support was done. Capcom has definitely internalized trolling as a marketing tactic.

That Steve Harvey gif is perfect represents. It may be good natured, but not everyone is going to find it funny.
 
Tony Redgrave said:
I like over the top anime-ish style when it's due (I love TTGL btw) but DMC4 was a disgrace in that department because the story was a mess and the characters were just bad, they didn't even know what to do with the old cast and the new was disgraceful, I mean Kyrie? I was trying to save her for the whole game and what did she have two lines of dialogue? The bad guys were after the power of Sparda AGAIN? Dante seemed like he was there just for the lulz etc...
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I love Uncle Dante.
 
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