Fuck. This. They learned nothing. Of course their lives are largely unaffected by the Trump win they let happen because they are the wealthy elite, so by all means go ahead and repeat the same shit next cycle DNC. Put the country in a prolonged dark age because you have some idealized aspiration to plop an unelectable party figurehead in front of us and telling us to muster some completely disingenuous and forced passion. All to serve your own egos and maintain this undeserved status quo.
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DNC staffer berates Donna Brazile for helping elect Donald Trump
- Thread starter Mahadev
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Half the nation doesn't vote. This is reality.I agree that nobody owes Hillary anything. That was also the narrative of the no more of the Bush/Clinton dynasty people. However, NOT voting is inexcusable to me.
Beer Monkey
Member
Sorry. Voters stayed home because they didn't like her. Maybe they didn't have good reasons or they were shortsighted or whatever but they didn't show up. Her JOB was to get them to show up. No one owed her a damn thing and that showed on election night.
Your job as a progressive voter is to always, ALWAYS show up and always vote for the most progressive candidate of the two that are electable.
You want to reform the establishment you work on that outside of the general election.
You start doing that and you don't get progress rolled back a half century for the NEXT half century.
GoldenEye 007
Member
People are saying know your audience. Rust belt folks don't want to hear about social justice issues when they're economically depressed. If you think they do, then we can keep losing elections I guess.Really? Because it's reading like so much of the limp-ass trash I've been reading online (ironically, also on Facebook). Forgive me for not quite wanting to coddle and kumbaya with people who just chucked my black ass underneath the bus to, as Mahadev wrote, to "fuck with the system".
Eh, maybe it's my damn tunnel vision, eh cheezcake?
Nobody said abandon the minority cause. It can be part of an overall national platform. But that it needs to be used in a manner that makes more sense in terms of securing votes. So yeah harping on minority issues to a bunch of white people who just want a job isn't going to do shit. Doing it in Detroit or Chicago or any other city does.
And for good measure, finding candidates that excite people to deliver an effective message.
I showed up. Lots of progressives showed up.Your job as a progressive voter is to always, ALWAYS show up and always vote for the most progressive candidate.
You want to reform the establishment you work on that outside of the general election.
You start doing that and you don't get progress rolled back a half century for the NEXT half century.
Blue collar workers didn't. People used to the corrupt image of Hillary for years didn't. Stop blaming people who actually care. We were there.
lastflowers
Banned
What's un-goddamned-believable is the liberal strategy of supposedly "caring" about social issues and not doing shit about their true causes, hell, most of the time making matters worse by voting for corrupt politicians like Clinton. Want to kill, absolutely eviscerate racism? Let me tell you first what won't work. Annoying virtue signaling facebook posts whining about it won't do shit, accusing people who didn't vote your party of choice all kind of shit won't do shit, being obsessed with identity politics won't do shit, hell, even browbeating actual racists usually doesn't do shit.
You know what works? Creating a healthy, educated middle class that lives in a stable society that supports them every time they stumble. Stupidity and hate breeds in poverty and uncertainty something that neoliberalism has spread all over the planet including first world countries. Democrats support the breeders of these social issues and then complain about them to feel good about themselves.
I'm wondering. What do you think you achieve by calling a poor, marginalized voter from Michigan that has been screwed by the system all his life and who wanted to vote for Trump to fuck with it a racist? Are you doing it to change his mind or are you doing it for yourself? Hint, it's the latter.
well put.
BravesCountry
Banned
Besides the part about being a Bernie supporter at the beginning - are you me? Look in the mirror. Do you look like my avatar??
I have a feeling there are a lot of us. I will do my best to never let it happen again though. Thinking back to the DNC I remember being upset that the last Bernie supporters weren't accepting defeat and that it was time to support Hillary but maybe they saw something we didn't and were trying to save this party and country because they truly didn't believe HIllary was electable. Jokes on all of us telling them to fall in line and support the safer, better candidate. They aren't the reason this election was lost.
Half the nation doesn't vote. This is reality.
And its a shame. It shouldn't require a free prize for voting to get people off their butts. The future of the nation should be enough. Apparently it's not. The nation will overcome, but it sure feels dark.
BotoxAgent
Member
America won't do that. They just proved it.
So find another way.
Yeah, we have to start by rebuilding the DNC from the ground up. Get rid of all traces of the Clinton legacy...the Wasserman Schultz, Donna Brazil's etc. Fill the void with charismatic passionate progressives. Voters are lazy fuck and find some way to motivate them to vote in all elections.....local and national.
I feel like it's a tall order. And fear the only way to motivate them is by Trump fucking up and causing irreparable damage.
Make voting an achievement you get on your phone in whatever fad mobile game people are playing at the time of the next election.And its a shame. It shouldn't require a free prize for voting to get people off their butts. The future of the nation should be enough. Apparently it's not. The nation will overcome, but it sure feels dark.
LoserMakesGood
Member
Sorry. Voters stayed home because they didn't like her. Maybe they didn't have good reasons or they were shortsighted or whatever but they didn't show up. Her JOB was to get them to show up. No one owed her a damn thing and that showed on election night.
You're right no one owes her anything, but that's not why you vote. I vote because I owe myself, I vote for my family, friends, neighbors, community, the guy at the gas station, the pizza delivery guy, the dog that shits on my sidewalk. I vote because who we put in office effects all these people (and animals) one way or another. It's a chance to try and leave the world a better place than you found it. Staying home just because you are not excited about the options just makes you an asshole.
This country is about 3/4 asshole apparently.
not calling you an asshole
I refuse to believe the bolded. We're now at a stage where we're trying to find who to blame and obvuously she's the first and easiest choice to blame. She offered her positions. They were good positions and SHOULD be enough to get you to vote for her. If you couldn't be bothered to come out and pull the lever on her because she was unlikeable, didn't show enough emotion, too robotic, a career politician, didn't liker pantsuit, etc. That shit's superficial and shortsighted. Not everyone is Obama. That dude is a once in a lifetime guy. If you didn't vote, you were just lazy and didn't care. I don't even blame people for voting for trump at this point. Yeah, it's her job to make you want to vote; but if the future direction of the country wasn't enough to make you vote, I don't know what to say to you.
You are talking about the american electorate here. Do you see the problem with that sentence now? She didn't give a good, clear reason for people to come out for her other than "She's not Trump". That's not how you get the average american off their sofa, and we found that out on Tuesday. If you want to think that's irrational, that's fine- but that's the country we live in and have to play by the rules of the lowest common denominator.
BotoxAgent
Member
You're right no one owes her anything, but that's not why you vote. I vote because I owe myself, I vote for my family, friends, neighbors, community, the guy at the gas station, the pizza delivery guy, the dog that shits on my sidewalk. I vote because who we put in office effects all these people (and animals) one way or another. It's a chance to try and leave the world a better place than you found it. Staying home just because you are not excited about the options just makes you an asshole.
This country is about 3/4 asshole apparently.
not calling you an asshole
So true
It being true (Americans largely being assholes) doesn't make it any more likely that they'll vote for you next time unless something changes.So true
lastflowers
Banned
I have a feeling there are a lot of us. I will do my best to never let it happen again though. Thinking back to the DNC I remember being upset that the last Bernie supporters weren't accepting defeat and that it was time to support Hillary but maybe they saw something we didn't and were trying to save this party and country because they truly didn't believe HIllary was electable. Jokes on all of us telling them to fall in line and support the safer, better candidate. They aren't the reason this election was lost.
The Bernie coalition was more willing to vote for Hillary than her coalition was to vote for Obama.
This is the reality that so many ignored because they saw a twitter post or brushed up with a Bern-or-Buster.
You're right no one owes her anything, but that's not why you vote. I vote because I owe myself, I vote for my family, friends, neighbors, community, the guy at the gas station, the pizza delivery guy, the dog that shits on my sidewalk. I vote because who we put in office effects all these people (and animals) one way or another. It's a chance to try and leave the world a better place than you found it. Staying home just because you are not excited about the options just makes you an asshole.
This country is about 3/4 asshole apparently.
not calling you an asshole
Tell your friends that, not us. Most of us know that. (I know you're just venting, and probably talking to the few that deserve it)
Beer Monkey
Member
I showed up. Lots of progressives showed up.
Blue collar workers didn't. People used to the corrupt image of Hillary for years didn't. Stop blaming people who actually care. We were there.
46% of voters didn't show up.
History shows that these people are overwhelmingly liberal.
If maye 42% didn't show up we'd probably be OK.
Beer Monkey
Member
I'm hoping in anger more people come forward and admit how fixated the DNC was on clinton refusing to even consider Bernie or anybody else. I don't understand how this woman still holds the position she does with what we learned from what leaked out.
Incredibly Naive.
cartographer
Member
1) Now is absolutely the time for constructive anger and initiative. What Zach did sounds unprofessional, but hard to blame him past that. We should not be having any of this touchy feely, pat ourselves on the back crap. This was a monumental, pivotal loss that will hurt minorities, women, the LGBT community, the environment etc. potentially for an entire generation. Nobody should feel good about that. The path to 2018 and 2020 starts now.
2) I thoroughly reject the idea that getting some of these voters on your side requires sacrificing social issues in your campaign platform, unless you have an extremely unforgiving idea of what sacrificing is. You can appeal both to working class voters and progressives. See: Obama. If you say we need another Obama and that will be hard to find, then so be it. Let's start looking and not settle on the next one in the assembly line.
2) I thoroughly reject the idea that getting some of these voters on your side requires sacrificing social issues in your campaign platform, unless you have an extremely unforgiving idea of what sacrificing is. You can appeal both to working class voters and progressives. See: Obama. If you say we need another Obama and that will be hard to find, then so be it. Let's start looking and not settle on the next one in the assembly line.
How are you gonna get them to show up? Shaming them?46% of voters didn't show up.
History shows that these people are overwhelmingly liberal.
If maye 42% didn't show up we'd probably be OK.
Clinton isn't to blame. Her "supporters" are to blame for not coming out and voting. If a small percentage had come out, we wouldn't having this conversation. Dude wouldn't be bitching. Apathy is a real problem because it's so easy.
Democrats should have put in their strongest player to stop him, not a party hack theyd chosen because it was her turn.
How are you gonna get them to show up? Shaming them?
If they're unhappy with Tuesday's result, hopefully they'll have enough shame to come out next time. Nothing really anyone can do but introspection.
Democrats should have put in their strongest player to stop him, not a party hack they’d chosen because it was her turn.
Techinically, she was the strongest player until it was time to vote.
"Well, we tried. Better not learn anything and do the same thing in four years! Things will surely turn out different then!"If they're unhappy with Tuesday's result, hopefully they'll have enough shame to come out next time. Nothing really anyone can do but introspection.
Techinically, she was the strongest player until it was time to vote.
Really? Because it's reading like so much of the limp-ass trash I've been reading online (ironically, also on Facebook). Forgive me for not quite wanting to coddle and kumbaya with people who just chucked my black ass underneath the bus to, as Mahadev wrote, to "fuck with the system".
Eh, maybe it's my damn tunnel vision, eh cheezcake?
Look, I know you are not happy. Neither am I, but the bitter truth is that people vote for their own interest first and foremost. If that means that they need to throw someone under the bus, they find a way to justify it: "They'll be fine. Trump isn't actually a racist." Now, I'm not saying that bigotry wasn't involved. it sure was. But, if we are going to solve this problem and secure our well being, we need to get our hands dirty. Saying that half the electorate is flawed and calling it a day makes the problem unsolvable. What did Obama do in his campaign to win these people over that wasn't present this time?
As sad as it is, their social conditions will be enough motivation. They don't need to be told to vote for the Democrats. Their skin is on the line. It's the white moderates that need to be talked to.How are you going to get people of color to vote for the next white male outsider that ignores them in the primaries?
Shame them?
If they're unhappy with Tuesday's result, hopefully they'll have enough shame to come out next time. Nothing really anyone can do but introspection.
Techinically, she was the strongest player until it was time to vote.
This is some naive stuff. So your solution in America to the GOP controlling everything is to hope people learn their lesson? Shit, the great recession was less than a decade ago and this country has forgotten it. If you are betting on the memories of a typical american voter, you are in for one fucking rough go at it.
Beer Monkey
Member
How are you gonna get them to show up? Shaming them?
How are you going to get people of color to vote for the next white male outsider that ignores them in the primaries?
Shame them?
This is some naive stuff. So your solution in America to the GOP controlling everything is to hope people learn their lesson? Shit, the great recession was less than a decade ago and this country has forgotten it. If you are betting on the memories of a typical american voter, you are in for one fucking rough go at it.
Not sure what else there is except trot out Arnold Schwartenegger as a candidate or a guy offering a BRAND NEW CAR to every voter.
Not sure what else there is except trot out Arnold Schwartenegger as a candidate or a guy offering a BRAND NEW CAR to every voter.
Find a candidate with a personality that a normal person can relate too. Or has some sort of passion and drive that can light the fire in people.
Find a candidate with a personality that a normal person can relate too. Or has some sort of passion and drive that can light the fire in people.
SOmeone that will overpromise and undeliver you mean. Democrats are fickle. They want the best and will settle for nothing less. Needs to check off every single box. The problem is when you go all or nothing, you're usually left with nothing.
I mean I get it. It's nice to think that way, but it ain't (imo) gonna work.
Bernie didn't do enough, but he didn't totally ignore them like Clinton did.How are you going to get people of color to vote for the next white male outsider that ignores them in the primaries?
Shame them?
The Tea Party has ideology, not reason. Democrats shouldn't want one.Zach has got it.
Time for a liberal Tea Party equivalent to force the DNC to listen to reason.
As sad as it is, their social conditions will be enough motivation. They don't need to be told to vote for the Democrats. Their skin is on the line.
Holy FUCK people sell out minorities so fucking fast. Trump said the same damn thing, it was fucked up then and its fucked up now.
You should be ashamed. Speak to people about people like they are people. Its not hard.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Neoliberalism, like Neoconservativism, is now dead and buried. This country needs a progressive populist as its leader. We are currently heading towards becoming a banana republic controlled by multinational corporations and the government shills that work directly for them. Both Clinton and Trump were those shills, just representing the whims of different industries. Outside of them both being crooked in relation to the economy, Clinton seems to actually be an empathetic human being in relation to social issues, while Trump is an ego-maniacal narcissist who steam rolls over his opposition. Bernie is actually a true defender and representative of the people, as is Elizabeth Warren. They need to take the reigns.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
How is this so fucking difficult to get?
Democrats cannot win without the black/latino vote. Democrats also cannot win without its blue collar union base.
Find a platform with ideas and policies and a point of view that appeal to both groups. It's gonna be hard, but you have to do it.
This thinking is absolutely fucked. It's why segments within the black community continuously accuse Democrats of taking their vote for granted.
Democrats cannot win without the black/latino vote. Democrats also cannot win without its blue collar union base.
Find a platform with ideas and policies and a point of view that appeal to both groups. It's gonna be hard, but you have to do it.
As sad as it is, their social conditions will be enough motivation. They don't need to be told to vote for the Democrats. Their skin is on the line. It's the white moderates that need to be talked to.
This thinking is absolutely fucked. It's why segments within the black community continuously accuse Democrats of taking their vote for granted.
Incredibly Naive.
Naive thinking people will come forward? Or naive to the leaks? I mean CNN responded to the links by denouncing Donna for leaking questions.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Fuck. This. They learned nothing. Of course their lives are largely unaffected by the Trump win they let happen because they are the wealthy elite, so by all means go ahead and repeat the same shit next cycle DNC. Put the country in a prolonged dark age because you have some idealized aspiration to plop an unelectable party figurehead in front of us and telling us to muster some completely disingenuous and forced passion. All to serve your own egos and maintain this undeserved status quo.
This. Exactly this.
Beer Monkey
Member
Bernie didn't do enough, but he didn't totally ignore them like Clinton did.
In what states did Bernie spend money?
Bernie didn't do enough, but he didn't totally ignore them like Clinton did.
If there's one thing the Clinton campaign didn't do wrong, it's the level of outreach and pandering to voters of color that she did. It's what turned Nevada solidly blue and what kept Georgia "close" for her in this election. And it's why she was the Democratic nominee in the first place.
Holy FUCK people sell out minorities so fucking fast. Trump said the same damn thing, it was fucked up then and its fucked up now.
You should be ashamed. Speak to people about people like they are people. Its not hard.
Ashamed? I'm speaking as a minority myself. If we want to win and make progress, the white moderates need to be talked to the most, so we can win. What's to be so ashamed about that? I want progress and I want better conditions. Candidates can benefit minorities while also selling themselves to the majority. As it's been echoed before, progress is the goal. We can't try to make giant leaps or else we have so much to lose. We lost this election and who knows what's going to happen in the next 4 years. I would much rather have been pragmatic than accept this. As minority numbers grow maybe we'll get there eventually, but that time isn't now.
Your job as a progressive voter is to always, ALWAYS show up and always vote for the most progressive candidate of the two that are electable.
You want to reform the establishment you work on that outside of the general election.
You start doing that and you don't get progress rolled back a half century for the NEXT half century.
Here's a newsflash. Many of the people that voted for Obama are not progressives.
They never fucking learn do they? They didn't in 2010, or 2014, and I guess they never will.
PoliGAF and HillGAF were wrong, the media and pollsters were wrong, and the DNC were wrong. And I'll never trust them again.
We should've listened to UKGAF warning us about Brexit part 2. We should've pushed harder for progress like the rest of the world said we should. We should've listened to Moore.
Maher said it years ago. It's time to put it into practice.
The Donner Party like in the video.
PoliGAF and HillGAF were wrong, the media and pollsters were wrong, and the DNC were wrong. And I'll never trust them again.
We should've listened to UKGAF warning us about Brexit part 2. We should've pushed harder for progress like the rest of the world said we should. We should've listened to Moore.
Yep, time to go full in on the Tea Party playbook. No more pandering to the moderates.
Maher said it years ago. It's time to put it into practice.
100 fucking percent agreed.
What should we call our movement, I wonder? Occupy DNC?
Maybe... Muckrakers. Like in the 1900s. Expose the corruption on the right and left. Push for candidates who evoke change and actual hope.
The Donner Party like in the video.
Most Democrats are playing the blame game.The only ones playing the blame game are Hillary and her supporters or did you miss where they came out today and blamed everyone under the sun but themselves for the huge fuckup of theirs?
It's the Hilary supporters who don't want to admit they can be blamed.
She didn't reach out to people she needed, but Bernie reached out (insufficiently) to the people he needed.If there's one thing the Clinton campaign didn't do wrong, it's the level of outreach and pandering to voters of color that she did. It's what turned Nevada solidly blue and what kept Georgia "close" for her in this election. And it's why she was the Democratic nominee in the first place.
Zach seems like a lot of liberals on GAF. Angry and desperate for someone to be angry at and so are putting all of their anger at the DNC. And it's fine to be angry for now, but it's not a very productive solution.
It was certainly productive for the Republicans.
But liberal anger always seems to dissipate and fade away, doesn't it? Nothing ever seems to get done as a result, and liberals seem to take away the wrong message.
Which is why I'm fully in support of a complete gutting of the DNC by March 2017 for the good of the American people, but I'm not in support of stuffing it with Sanders sympathizers that only want to get Sanders elected in the next 4 years.
Because obviously... that doesn't work. And it's not going to work simply because Sanders is "different."
And, let me repeat this until ears bleed, we need to WIN. That goal is more important than anything else over the next one, two, and four years.
She didn't reach out to people she needed, but Bernie reached out (insufficiently) to the people he needed.
Got it.
I agree. We can't pander to one part of the electorate and completely ignore a large swath of it. There needs to be someone who can appeal to both--Like Bill Clinton did or Obama did.Ashamed? I'm speaking as a minority myself. If we want to win and make progress, the white moderates need to be talked to the most, so we can win. What's to be so ashamed about that? I want progress and I want better conditions. Candidates can benefit minorities while also selling themselves to the majority. As it's been echoed before, progress is the goal. We can't try to make giant leaps or else we have so much to lose. We lost this election and who knows what's going to happen in the next 4 years. I would much rather have been pragmatic than accept this.
We have time. Let's find that person. It's not one of the party leaders right now though and that means we have to advocate for change at the top of the party.
Aka. "Fuck you (lgbt and minorities), until I got mine".Find a candidate with a personality that a normal person can relate too. Or has some sort of passion and drive that can light the fire in people.
I mean, Hillary was a bad candidate. I love her. Most dems did/do. They loved her since she was first lady, but she lost this. I don't think she's going to run away from wearing the L. She was the wrong candidate for this year. That's obvious now.
But you're a fucking asshole for being an educated voter who knew what was going on and throwing minority and ostracized groups under the bus because you 'just weren't really feeling it. You can wear that L too.
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