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[cory.]

I think the point is he wanted to let them off on his own terms, instead of letting it come to some big event that forces him to let them go.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Is she really gone!?!?!? O God PLEASE be gone!??! I'm so excited! The episode was fantastic too even ignoring the fact that she's gone! Happiest I've been about an episode this season.

 

[Inanna]

I wasn't a huge fan of Amy before but I am liking her character this series. It would be sad to see them (especially Rory) leave the show for good.

Spoiler

PS: Whatever happened to the Doctor's daughter from the fourth series?

 

[GillianSeed79]

Wow, the last two episodes have been great, but really depressing. The last part he says I wasn't talking about me makes it seems like he is going to die. There are still some big loose ends that need tied up, so I bet Amy and Rory will make another appearance.

 

[OMG Aero]

I wasn't a huge fan of Amy before but I am liking her character this series. It would be sad to see them (especially Rory) leave the show for good.

Spoiler

PS: Whatever happened to the Doctor's daughter from the fourth series?

I'm not really sure why you spoilered that, but apparently Moffat was the one who persuaded Davies to revive her so he could do something with her in his series, though I think she's just forgotten about now.

 

[Amir0x]

Not a bad episode at all. Looks like the direction of the season is starting to get decidedly melancholy, more accounts of the Doctor and his damage to lives.

Last episodes Rory saying "I'm turning into you" so powerfully and this episodes faith loss, truth about the reality of what always happens with The Doctor, it's great compelling stuff.



Next weeks episode seems to be about something I've been wondering for a long time, so this season is going places.

 

[Sneds]

Russell T Davies.

Ha! Ouch.

I actually like RTD's writing overall.

 

[bengraven]

First off: fantastic episode. I knew it was going to be another stand alone monster episode, but the emotional ending took me by surprise.

I admit I teared up...I can admit that. I know the nature of Doctor Who is that he goes on and the companions either die or stay behind, but I'm going to have a very hard time with that in the end.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Ha! Ouch.

I actually like RTD's writing overall.

The only problem was RTD and Grand Moff Tarkin couldn't work together. Their work complimented each other beautifully. RTD had a wonderful eye for spectacle and climax, and Moff is great at making the audience feel clever. Sadly working apart it's become clear that RTD is the stronger writer (Exhibit A: Children Of Earth)

 

[cory.]

The only problem was RTD and Grand Moff Tarkin couldn't work together. Their work complimented each other beautifully. RTD had a wonderful eye for spectacle and climax, and Moff is great at making the audience feel clever. Sadly working apart it's become clear that RTD is the stronger writer (Exhibit A: Children Of Earth)

RTD has good ideas, but he needs to let someone else do the follow-through (Exhibit B: Miracle Day).
And his writing at its strongest has never been better than Moffat's.

 

[onlyindreams]

Sadly working apart it's become clear that RTD is the stronger writer (Exhibit A: Children Of Earth)

Haha no. Children of Earth was good but it's like the ONLY example of genuinely good that I can pull from something he has written.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

RTD has good ideas, but he needs to let someone else do the follow-through (Exhibit B: Miracle Day)

Yeah that's a fair point, and really what I was getting at. They would have got better work from writing together. RTD can't do a decent climax really (he's managed one in the whole of his career) and Moff just disappears up an arsehole of easter eggs and smug cleverness. One writes for the man in the street, one writes for the fanboys. Neither is a great plan by itself.

Haha no. Children of Earth was good but it's like the ONLY example of genuinely good that I can pull from something he has written.

But lets be fair. It's a genuinely astonishing piece of science fiction. Brave, confrontational and difficult, everything the genre should be. I mean there's *still* a monument to Ianto in Cardiff Bay (I live here)

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I think the difference between the two is that RTD is much better at doing good, clean fun with continuity coming second. With Moffat he NEEDS the continuity. He feeds off of it. His writing is good, but it requires a much higher level of dedication, which isn't always a good thing. Watching just one of Moffat's episodes is less entertaining than watching a single RTD episode, but watching a Moffat season is more fun than watching an RTD season.

 

[onlyindreams]

I think the difference between the two is that RTD is much better at doing good, clean fun with continuity coming second. With Moffat he NEEDS the continuity. He feeds off of it. His writing is good, but it requires a much higher level of dedication, which isn't always a good thing. Watching just one of Moffat's episodes is less entertaining than watching a single RTD episode, but watching a Moffat season is more fun than watching an RTD season.

How is that a problem? Might as well just go watch CSI if you're not willing to put dedication into a TV show.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

I think the difference between the two is that RTD is much better at doing good, clean fun with continuity coming second. With Moffat he NEEDS the continuity. He feeds off of it. His writing is good, but it requires a much higher level of dedication, which isn't always a good thing. Watching just one of Moffat's episodes is less entertaining than watching a single RTD episode, but watching a Moffat season is more fun than watching an RTD season.

But don't you feel Moffat has been slipping on that continuity this year? The storyline he's doing has a fuck load of ambition behind it and I really feel he's not stepped up. The River Song reveal was limp, and has been used as a quick out for any continuity holes.Now this in itself isn't a problem, lord knows RTD did it enough, but when you present yourself, as Moffat has done, as putting an ongoing storyline to the fore and moving beyond the easter egg ridden plots of RTD then it does stick up. I really feel the man hasn't fulfilled his end of the bargain in some regards. The Rebel Flesh was the best episode of the last year because it really pulled out the rug but built upon previous plot work and clues. That's the level he promised and I really feel we're not getting it.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

How is that a problem? Might as well just go watch CSI if you're not willing to put dedication into a TV show.

Reading this comment just shoves visions of angry fanboys into my head.

Requiring dedication isn't bad, but it certainly isn't good either. It just is. Like I said it is more enjoyable to watch a single RTD episode. It's not less "smart" either as some like to claim. It's really just a different format. However, the stereotypical geek desire to accumulate more knowledge than anyone else about their passions feeds that desire to continue to pile on the continuity.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Reading this comment just shoves visions of angry fanboys into my head.

Requiring dedication isn't bad, but it certainly isn't good either. It just is. Like I said it is more enjoyable to watch a single RTD episode. It's not less "smart" either as some like to claim. It's really just a different format. However, the stereotypical geek desire to accumulate more knowledge than anyone else about their passions feeds that desire to continue to pile on the continuity.

Bingo. And it's why I hold up Children Of Earth as being such a brillient piece of genre fiction. I had seen and have seen no Torchwood before or since (currently watching Miricle Day, but...eh). It's an engaging stand alone piece with well realised characters and stakes that anyone can jump in to and feel the emotional core of. My girlfriend, who had never even HEARD of RTD was cursing the name of

Spoiler

Jack Harkness

by the end. That's good, gripping TV. In 5 episodes you have more drama, heartache and, let's give credit, heady sci-fi and political concepts than most series manage in 20.

 

[Sneds]

Haha no. Children of Earth was good but it's like the ONLY example of genuinely good that I can pull from something he has written.

Really? Not a single Doctor Who episode he wrote? I certainly think that he's hit and miss but he wrote some good episodes, e.g. Midnight.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Really? Not a single Doctor Who episode he wrote? I certainly think that he's hit and miss but he wrote some good episodes, e.g. Midnight.

And the first two Master episodes. Damn that was a good reveal.

 

[cory.]

Reading this comment just shoves visions of angry fanboys into my head.

Requiring dedication isn't bad, but it certainly isn't good either. It just is. Like I said it is more enjoyable to watch a single RTD episode. It's not less "smart" either as some like to claim. It's really just a different format. However, the stereotypical geek desire to accumulate more knowledge than anyone else about their passions feeds that desire to continue to pile on the continuity.

He's telling an ambitious story across multiple episodes because it's interesting...

 

[StalkerUKCG]

As a huge fan of Who since its return i have to say i think the last 4 eps have been pretty weak in my opinion.

Lets kill hitler
Started well and had some nice plot points but fell apart closer to the end. Things like the Teselecta where majorly under explained. Theey essentially wrapped up a huge portion of river songs history with 20 lines.


Night Terrors
This episodes seems to be getting praised highly by a lot of people, i dont know if im missing something but for me its up their with "fear her" and "love and monsters" as one of the weakest episodes iv ever seen, the plot was paper thin, the conclusion was fairly deus ex like and nothing was explained.


The Girl Who Waited
Better than the oth ers but by no means great, again so much unexplained, one glaring plot hole and a very very weak "monster". Certain things dont keep in line with previously established canon.

The God Complex
Not much to say really, didnt enjoy it felt it was a good idea handeled badly. Hopefully we go back to some of the elements that got brought up such as what was in the doctors room and rory was completely ignored for the most part.

The next episode looks good, i enjoyed the last one featuring James Cordon and hope for something similar.
Overall i feel the series since its return has been bery light in actual plot and more about running or action.

 

[onlyindreams]

Like I said it is more enjoyable to watch a single RTD episode.

Is it? I mean how many times can you really watch random alien races invade London and still be entertained...

The Moff episodes were like a light at the end of the goddamn tunnel during RTD's run.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

He's telling an ambitious story across multiple episodes because it's interesting...

Plenty of single episodes can be interesting as well. Like I said neither format is better simply on its own. I personally don't think this season arc is all that great. Last season was much more entertaining imo. However, saying Moffat is better BECAUSE he does it over multiple episodes just seems dumb. RTD told some really enjoyable stories as well.

 

[onlyindreams]

Really? Not a single Doctor Who episode he wrote? I certainly think that he's hit and miss but he wrote some good episodes, e.g. Midnight.

Well, weirdly enough the ones his fans don't like such as Gridlock and Love & Monsters are what I actually somewhat kinda-sorta enjoy. Probably because they're so different from the other dredge he put out.

The Master stuff in s3 was pretty fun only because John Simm is so awesome. Too bad it ended in such a disaster of a climax.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

 

[onlyindreams]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

Yep.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

Well, part of the reason its so much better is the new cameras and production value... And to me that's pretty major. In terms of actual writing I think Moffat is probably better but not really by all that much.

 

[cory.]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

Pretty much. I was a little embarrassed to like Who during the RTD era.

 

[marrec]

Well, weirdly enough the ones his fans don't like such as Gridlock and Love & Monsters are what I actually somewhat kinda-sorta enjoy. Probably because they're so different from the other dredge he put out.

The Master stuff in s3 was pretty fun only because John Simm is so awesome. Too bad it ended in such a disaster of a climax.

Yes.

Also this episode was fantastic, everything I want from Doctor Who, especially the part where he realizes what a terrible plague he is on individual humans.

Even if he's great for humanity as a whole.

Well, part of the reason its so much better is the new cameras and production value... And to me that's pretty major. In terms of actual writing I think Moffat is probably better but not really by all that much.

The camera work and art direction are much better as well, and Matt Smith is a better actor. I know most won't share that opinion, but still.

 

[cory.]

Night Terrors
This episodes seems to be getting praised highly by a lot of people, i dont know if im missing something but for me its up their with "fear her" and "love and monsters" as one of the weakest episodes iv ever seen, the plot was paper thin, the conclusion was fairly deus ex like and nothing was explained.

Agreed, and I didn't really see a lot of praise, just from the more "traditional" fans.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

Can we make-out? I simply can't comprehend when people attempt to put "Children of Earth" on some pedestal.

 

[marrec]

Can we make-out? I simply can't comprehend when people attempt to put "Children of Earth" on some pedestal.

Well, when compared to S1 and S2 of Torchwood, Children of Earth is fucking Shakespeare.

But then when compared to anything else, it's simply mediocre.

 

[cory.]

Well, when compared to S1 and S2 of Torchwood, Children of Earth is fucking Shakespeare.

But then when compared to anything else, it's simply mediocre.

I can't believe I even forced myself to watch s1 and 2. Maybe like 3-4 episodes were decent.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Well, when compared to S1 and S2 of Torchwood, Children of Earth is fucking Shakespeare.

But then when compared to anything else, it's simply mediocre.

My schoolboy crush on Toshi carried me through season one, but after her death I could stand no more! Even if an episode of Torchwood had the greatest script even seen by man Gwens acting would render it nigh unmatchable.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

I am honesty astounded when I hear people try to hold up RTD as a writer on Moffet's level. Give me a fucking break-seriously? I am convinced this is just some mass trolling, or people have some sort of false memories of how the show used to be. I always enjoyed it, but let's be honest-the show is much much better now on every level...any nitpicks I have to do with the show moving too fast-but I'd rather have that than slow-paced, well meaning silliness.

Ah American Syndrome full at work.

(American Syndrome: The inability for an individual to conceive of a reality outside of their own)

They're called opinions, son. Chin up, buckle down and it'll all make sense.

Look. Matt Smith is a brilliant actor, miles, light years even, better than David Tennant's schizophrenic doctor. And I like David Tennant. But this

Pretty much. I was a little embarrassed to like Who during the RTD era.

nonsense needs to stop. No, you weren't embarrassed. If you were you simply wouldn't have watched. All you're trying to do is intellectually elevate a program you watch to justify enjoying children's/family tv to yourself. RTD wrote for kids and families, he just happened to write for housing estate families and working class heroes. Moffat writes for posh kids and nerds who like to be challenged with timey wimiey and then feel clever because they get it. Neither is superior. Just different.

Sadly Moffat hasn't caught on or been able to keep up with the standards he set himself. It's why the season was split, why the budget was cut and why we'll see a new showrunner *hoping it's Mark Gatiss* before long.

 

[KibblesBits]

Can we make-out? I simply can't comprehend when people attempt to put "Children of Earth" on some pedestal.

Yep. My sentiments exactly. I almost found it insulting.

 

[marrec]

My schoolboy crush on Toshi carried me through season one, but after her death I could stand no more! Even if an episode of Torchwood had the greatest script even seen by man Gwens acting would render it nigh unmatchable.

You and me should meet for drinks.

You have also earned my Pseudo-Wife's undying devotion.

Gwen is the absolute worst character in anything ever.

 

[onlyindreams]

Gwen is the absolute worst character in anything ever.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

You and me should meet for drinks.

You have also earned my Pseudo-Wife's undying devotion.

W would be so close to M on my keyboard Fuck you dyslexia!

 

[cory.]

nonsense needs to stop. No, you weren't embarrassed. If you were you simply wouldn't have watched. All you're trying to do is intellectually elevate a program you watch to justify enjoying children's/family tv to yourself. RTD wrote for kids and families, he just happened to write for housing estate families and working class heroes. Moffat writes for posh kids and nerds who like to be challenged with timey wimiey and then feel clever because they get it. Neither is superior. Just different.

Because I thought the fans were a little deluded for being that into those characters.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Because I thought the fans were a little deluded for being that into those characters.

That's the definition of fandom really. Delusional devotion to a fictional universe or character.

 

[onlyindreams]

Sadly Moffat hasn't caught on or been able to keep up with the standards he set himself. It's why the season was split, why the budget was cut and why we'll see a new showrunner *hoping it's Mark Gatiss* before long.

I just spit out my fucking drink.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

I just spit out my fucking drink.

It's what's happening. I've got a couple of friends who are sci-fi writers with the BBC and they've both said Moffat is on the ropes.

 

[onlyindreams]

It's what's happening. I've got a couple of friends who are sci-fi writers with the BBC and they've both said Moffat is on the ropes.

No you don't. You're making up bullshit based on those stupid tabloid articles.

 

[KibblesBits]

thisgonbgud.gif

 

[Captain_Spanky]

No you don't. You're making up bullshit based on those stupid tabloid articles.

No I'm an actor who lives in Cardiff who's friends with a couple who are professional writers who've worked with the BBC. But I can't really prove that so let's just drop it

 

[cory.]

It's what's happening. I've got a couple of friends who are sci-fi writers with the BBC and they've both said Moffat is on the ropes.

Really? He's made intentions to go through until the 2013 anniversary special, and I don't think that's going to change. He's going out on his own terms.

 

[Zabka]

Ah American Syndrome full at work.

(American Syndrome: The inability for an individual to conceive of a reality outside of their own)

They're called opinions, son. Chin up, buckle down and it'll all make sense.

Do you want people to ignore you?

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Really? He's made intentions to go through until the 2013 anniversary special, and I don't think that's going to change. He's going out on his own terms.

That'd be good because I'm enjoying his work. I've just heard a lot of people have lost faith in him. If he sticks it though it'll be great.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Do you want people to ignore you?

Read that in a silly Comic Book Guy style voice. It'll make more sense. Honest.