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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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New theory: The 7th doctor spent some time in Middle Earth and experimented with having animal companions instead of a human one. It didn't end well, although he did learn how to speak horse.
For those who haven't seen The Hobbit yet (minor casting spoiler):
For those who haven't seen The Hobbit yet (minor casting spoiler):
Radagast is played by Sylvester McCoy, the 7th Doctor.
"Not available in your country." Fuck you, BBC.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
A Christmas Carol
The Runaway Bride
Voyage of the Damned
The End of Time
The Christmas Invasion
The Next Doctor
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
Damned is only so high because it has Richard Bucket in it though
Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe is incredibly bad to the point that I'm shocked that the Moff wrote the thing.
The Runaway Bride
Voyage of the Damned
The End of Time
The Christmas Invasion
The Next Doctor
The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe
Damned is only so high because it has Richard Bucket in it though
Doctor, Widow and Wardrobe is incredibly bad to the point that I'm shocked that the Moff wrote the thing.
Yes! Thanks!
mightynine
Member
Shot in the new TARDIS, no?
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Man, loved the last one. Especially since no one else could keep a straight face.
That flew right over my head until I saw the credits in the end.
That makes a lot of sense actually.
I had a "where have I seen him before..?" moment during the movie. I IMDB'd it after the movie and was pleasantly surprised. I updated the post in case anyone else didn't catch it.
I enjoyed the start of The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe where the Doctor was a kooky caretaker. That was funny. I also enjoyed the end where he turns up at the Ponds. What a great, emotional, happy moment that was. The music that accompanied that scene was brilliant too.
It's too bad I can't remember what happened in the middle of the ep lol. Can't even remember who the enemies were.
It's too bad I can't remember what happened in the middle of the ep lol. Can't even remember who the enemies were.
Halfway through series one, and yeah. I'm officially on board. I'll certainly say that The End of the World has been the weakest episode for me so far, and I've enjoyed Rose, World War Three and, most of all at the moment, Dalek. I am a bit worried that things may get awkward later on, as Exterminieren mentioned, but for the most part, I'm easily liking this.
Exterminieren
Banned
Nah, you're past the worst of it now. I was referring to the Slitheen farting and the burping bin; tonal missteps that were totally not representative of the series as a whole.
Glad to hear you're on board.
Ah, I see. I didn't mind the farting as much as I probably should have, given that I was new and I was enjoying how things were picking up from Aliens in London, and as for the bin...yeah, I'll give you that, but I got over it.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
User 100115
Banned
You have a point. Even Rory has kissed the Doctor lol. Or, well, been kissed by the Doctor.
I think Moffat had this great concept for it that just didn't translate well on TV. I'd assume things had to be cut, or he had to re-write certain scenes and deviate from his original idea.
I'm really okay with what he's been doing with the past couple of Christmas specials. It's not as dreary as RTD's, which is a nice change considering we get something similar during the actual season anyway.
i enjoyed it. although i spoke prematurely, it just got to the part where he visits the ponds as referenced on the last page and i almost cried when amy opened the door since it was so sweet :')
The Elite
BOSS
If you can say you enjoyed World War Three you should enjoy the rest of the series.
if anything is hit and miss, it is season 6. there is that whole stretch between the astronaut episodes and a good man goes to war where i just stared at the tv without interest in anything going on
LumpOfCole
Member
I wonder what will happen if there is ever a female Doctor. Female companion? Male companion?
If there is ever a female Doctor, it should probably be Emily Mortimer.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
slightconfuse
Banned
just caughty up with series 7. Angels take manhatten was pretty sad.
cant wait for the x-mas special
cant wait for the x-mas special
Exterminieren
Banned
Would make discussing his children rather awkward.
APZonerunner
Member
Series 6 is definitely the weakest since the return for me (excepting one EXCELLENT story and plenty of lovely moments), and I think makes the case for Who plot arcs being no more complex than Bad Wolf, disappearing planets or cracks in time.
No episode of Doctor Who outside of a two-parter should ever require a 'previously' segment. Ever. Even when they did 'three parters' before - Utopia, Turn Left, etc, the actual two-parter in the finale is disconnected to the level where there's no previously segment. Series 6 is bloody full of them - I think the final episode has a previously segment with clips from 6 different episodes of a 13-episode series in it - and to me that's a massive part of the problem with that series. The beauty of this show is that it can go anywhere and do anything, so having the 'big' arc dictate where other stories go is disappointing. More than that, this continuity isn't great for the really young audience or the casual audience like, say, my mother. Who has a lovely continuity always, but on a wider, more simplistic level. When I became a fan I took a great amount of joy in hitting some of the old stories - I went and watched Genesis of the Daleks during Series 4 to see Davros, for instance - but the great thing about this show is it typically never requires that level of engagement.
It seems Moffat recognized this too, really - or market research told him or whatever - as Series 7 has kicked back in a massive way on that. Not even any two-parters! And very little River, it seems. Rumours seem to indicate she's only going to be in one episode of 7b. And I'm glad. I hope we get some two-parters in Series 8, though, since 7b is all single episodes again.
No episode of Doctor Who outside of a two-parter should ever require a 'previously' segment. Ever. Even when they did 'three parters' before - Utopia, Turn Left, etc, the actual two-parter in the finale is disconnected to the level where there's no previously segment. Series 6 is bloody full of them - I think the final episode has a previously segment with clips from 6 different episodes of a 13-episode series in it - and to me that's a massive part of the problem with that series. The beauty of this show is that it can go anywhere and do anything, so having the 'big' arc dictate where other stories go is disappointing. More than that, this continuity isn't great for the really young audience or the casual audience like, say, my mother. Who has a lovely continuity always, but on a wider, more simplistic level. When I became a fan I took a great amount of joy in hitting some of the old stories - I went and watched Genesis of the Daleks during Series 4 to see Davros, for instance - but the great thing about this show is it typically never requires that level of engagement.
It seems Moffat recognized this too, really - or market research told him or whatever - as Series 7 has kicked back in a massive way on that. Not even any two-parters! And very little River, it seems. Rumours seem to indicate she's only going to be in one episode of 7b. And I'm glad. I hope we get some two-parters in Series 8, though, since 7b is all single episodes again.
No offense, but that's a really dumb rule for any TV show ever.
APZonerunner
Member
I'd agree, but it's worked for 48 years! Series 6 went a bit mental with it, and individual episodes suffered as a result, I think. I really do believe the ability to have a disconnect week-to-week is one of the show's greatest strengths. The one time the show went down a deep continuity path before, Trial of a Time Lord, really marked the beginning of the end of old Who. I'm not saying that's a mirror - those stories were properly shit and I still don't think there's been a 'bad' episode of New Who, just mediocre ones - but full, deep continuity goes against the great strength of the show, I think.
Aside from sweeping changes like, say, a new console room or companion, the point is you could watch any episode of Doctor Who, jump in anywhere, and understand it. At the most base level, at least. I think the only pieces of 'required reading' in the entire series would be "Rose" and, if you prefer to start with the current era, "The Eleventh Hour." Beyond those episodes, you could pick and choose at random and be absolutely fine. That's not true with most other shows in this kind of format. It's literally The Simpsons format! Rewatching the series recently, I couldn't believe the number of times it's verbally explained what the psychic paper and sonic screwdriver do through dialogue. That's stuff that, in most shows, wouldn't be there; it'd be cut as extraneous dialogue, recapped elsewhere - but not in Who. That's by design, for this very purpose.
When you land somewhere - a new planet, with new people, new races, a whole suite of guest characters... if you're only going to spend 45 minutes there, I want that time to be spent entirely on that world, that story and those people, because that is the greatest magic of this show. Gridlock, one of my favourite episodes of New Who, is a perfect example. It's 42 minutes about the world of New Earth and New New York, and a great little tightly-packed adventure - but the 5 minutes it spends with The Face of Boe and The Doctor describing Gallifrey are, to be honest, more compelling development dished out in bite-sized chunks than the entire continuity-laden 45 minutes of Let's Kill Hitler (and don't even get me started on what a waste of that setting the episode was!). Even in that episode, the best moment is 'fish fingers and custard', imo, not the reveals within. This is what I mean. The same is true of The Beast Below and Time of Angels; we learn so much about Matt's Doctor in those episodes, yet no time is actually spent pointing at it directly. Credit to series 6 - they do succeed in The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People. That has a lovely, believable world and guest cast, and the Amy reveal is slotted in nicely at the end, explaining away the hatch-in-reality we've been seeing for episodes. That part of series 6's arc was good. Having to consistently repeat over and over again things like The Doctor getting shot on the beach isn't ideal for this show, though, I think. The very DNA of the show rebels against it.
One reason The Doctor is such a compelling character 50 years on is because his development is significantly more nuanced and gently spread out over time than another TV protagonist, be it Sam in Life on Mars or Jax in Sons of Anarchy or whoever else. Again, when they started going down this path of making the stories about "who is The Doctor?", plotting stuff out and having deep mysteries spanning across multiple years and serials, that was when the show began to fail (Sixth/Seventh Doctor, for those interested). I'm glad they've stepped back from that this year, though I hope the reason for no two-parters is down to the split-series structure and not the intention to do away with them entirely.
Maybe I haven't seen enough OldWho, but what I did tended to be serialized in structure. One story spread over 6-10 episodes (depend on the Doctor), and you're arguing they should stop doing that because the last couple seasons have had unsatisfying conclusions/bad structure? I agree the back end of 6 and a lot of 7a wasn't great, but I don't think relying on bottle episodes completely is the answer.
a secret-boss
Banned
just got into dr who, and started with Matt Smith series.
fifth season was ok, but 6th season's first 2 episode made me buy the bluray for 5th and 6th seasons. I'm only on the 3rd episode of season 6th
Karen Gillian looks cute
fifth season was ok, but 6th season's first 2 episode made me buy the bluray for 5th and 6th seasons. I'm only on the 3rd episode of season 6th
Karen Gillian looks cute
APZonerunner
Member
The show was pretty structurally different then, but basically the typical old Who structure was one story spread across five or six 25-minute episodes - but each story - or serial, as they call them - was a self-contained thing. There was very little continuity between different stories.
Genesis of the Daleks, Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons (what a run!) are all six-episode epics that flow into each other, but there's next to no connective tissue. The TARDIS takes off at the end, and lands in the next story. Fresh, new. I love that. Of course, all three of these stories are referenced in later Dalek/Cyberman/Zygon stories, but it's so fleetingly and subtly done that they don't become a required watch for new viewers but enhance the next story for old viewers.
I suppose what I'm arguing against isn't episodes being bottled/contained - I'd be up for having more two-parters, not less - but rather against plot arcs extending too deeply (again, I come back to Cracks in Time/Saxon/Bad Wolf/Disappearing Planets, all of which I felt were good and paid off well - Torchwood not so much) into individual stories. I think when you start having previously segments that cash in on bits from several different stories set on several different planets all with different guest characters, things get muddy and messy. That's thanks to the structure of the show - because it's constantly going to new places with new people, it becomes harder to have that sort of continuity. For most shows introducing a new guest star is a big deal. Who cycles through two to five guest stars every week!
Also - 7a I was fine with, really. The quality of the individual stories can be debated, as ever, but structurally I liked the vague linking between them and things. It felt like Series 5 again, which was nice.
infiniteloop
Member
Revenge of the Cybermen is pretty bad tbh
What? Old Who was heavily serialized.
grimshawish
Banned
just got into dr who, and started with Matt Smith series.
fifth season was ok, but 6th season's first 2 episode made me buy the bluray for 5th and 6th seasons. I'm only on the 3rd episode of season 6th
Karen Gillian looks cute
Go and watch series 1 The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, only stories really on par with series 6s opener IMO.
So good.
APZonerunner
Member
Kind of clarified what I meant in my next post. I phrased it poorly, really... I mean continuity from story to story as opposed to from episode to episode. Like, multi-part stories are cool and dandy, and I would love to see what Moffat could do with a 3-parter, for instance, as he's amazing in longer form - but I mean that Old Who never had much heavy continuity from one story to the next. One five-part story was obviously massively continuity heavy, but then when they moved to the next story it was a complete disconnect again.
APZonerunner
Member
It just went a bit heavy for my liking. On the flip side, they were dealing with The Doctor's death, and to hand-wave as RTD did with his story arcs would've driven people crazy. Trial of a Time Lord was 14 episodes, I think? So it has happened. I suppose, in that sense, Trial is fairly comparable - it's a very particular arc that dominates four normal stories, bundling them together. Eh. I think Series 6 suffered in a lot of weird ways - I think the gap in the scheduling was a good idea but wasn't executed brilliantly. I've found this year they've handled the split much more elegantly, which is great.
I miss confidential! We know so much less about the process these days. BBC cuts :'(
Future Foundation
Member
Jesus Christ, remind me never to read Gallifrey Base again.
Exterminieren
Banned
It does have a tendency to eat itself when the show isn't on the air.
I like the forum, apart from its new series section.
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