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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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E

Exterminieren

Banned
Future Foundation said:
It is often so negative? It always seems to be *something*.
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Oh, believe me, you weren't around on Outpost Gallifrey in the season breaks of the RTD era. You don't know true negativity.

I don't know if it's because we're mostly British, but organised Doctor Who fandom spends most of its time moaning. It's quite endearing after a while. There are some really nice groups and individuals on Gallifrey Base... it's just that they don't spend a lot of time talking about Doctor Who on there, that's all.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Exterminieren said:
Oh, believe me, you weren't around on Outpost Gallifrey in the season breaks of the RTD era. You don't know true negativity.

I don't know if it's because we're mostly British, but organised Doctor Who fandom spends most of its time moaning. It's quite endearing after a while. There are some really nice groups and individuals on Gallifrey Base... it's just that they don't spend a lot of time talking about Doctor Who on there, that's all.
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Htown said:
I bet the aftermath of Season 3 was truly magical.
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I think it's two 'eras' removed in order to get positive comments or something. Moffat's positive comments on there died around Evolution of the Daleks because of the (admittedly weird) new design, and it's just got worse since then. RTD and Tennant still get stick, but not as much as they did when they were on air. The Seventh Doctor and TV Movie, who everyone hated on during RTD's era, is suddenly part of the pantheon of great and good Who. As soon as Matt was cast, Eccleston seems to no longer cop the criticism the Tennant and Smith do. I just have this theory that when Moffat leaves and it's 2 eras removed, RTD's era will be an all-time-great... and then the next era for Moffat and Matt.

Half of them are particularly invested in the series I suppose because they were the faithful when it was off air - books, audio plays, comics, DW Magazine, they supported it all. I'm a massive Who fan to an embarrassing degree and even I can't bring myself to post there, as those people are impenetrable. I do enjoy lurking on there and watching episode reactions, though.

What's interesting now is that for whatever reason there wasn't huge growth during the RTD era - or it didn't feel that way? Not vocal people, anyway? Moffat's era has bought a new age of people, though - like there's a hilarious thread from a fan on there where one fairly recent addition to the fanbase says she wants The Doctor and River to have a baby to replace the hole in his life left by the Time Lords. Same person is also angry that he's
kissing Clara
in the trailer as it's
cheating on River
. I thumbed through that thread on the iPad while waiting for a train, jaw slack at the arguments between the 'old' and 'new' fans, all of them flinging shit at each other. Morbidly amazing.

The worst reactions I remember were to--
- Captain Jack's goodbye kiss to The Doctor
- Catherine Tate as full time companion (how wrong they were)
- Matt's age
- New Paradigm Daleks

The greatest contempt you can ever read is Lawrence Miles, who is something of a banner-bearer for the RTD & Moffat-hating crews. He was one of the many authors who helped keep Who alive when it was off air. When it came back, RTD hand-picked the list of people who'd be allowed to write novels with the Who license, and Miles was very, very angry he wasn't on the list. Ever since then he's been sticking the knife in on his blog, and every time there's a new post it sparks a massive thread on Gallifrey Base. They're always pretty hilariously bitter. He hates them both to death. Here's a particularly incredible vitriolic post, in which he tears Blink, an amazing episode, to pieces before going in on Moffat's personality in general. The side bar of Who stuff is also amazing. Man is crazy.

Not enough people appreciate Father's Day and that makes me sad.
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It's a lovely episode. The kind of thing we'd all do if we time travelled. Paul Cornell is underrated in general. Father's Day and Human Nature! I hope Moffat invites him back soon.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Regulus Tera said:
Not enough people appreciate Father's Day and that makes me sad.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES!!!! I keep saying bring back those damn dragons because they're a PERFECT Who villain, but no one seems to care.

And Paul Cornell is amazing at everything.... except that time he did Robin Hood. That show was not good.
 
G

gabbo

Member
APZonerunner said:
The show was pretty structurally different then, but basically the typical old Who structure was one story spread across five or six 25-minute episodes - but each story - or serial, as they call them - was a self-contained thing. There was very little continuity between different stories.

Genesis of the Daleks, Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons (what a run!) are all six-episode epics that flow into each other, but there's next to no connective tissue. The TARDIS takes off at the end, and lands in the next story. Fresh, new. I love that. Of course, all three of these stories are referenced in later Dalek/Cyberman/Zygon stories, but it's so fleetingly and subtly done that they don't become a required watch for new viewers but enhance the next story for old viewers.

I suppose what I'm arguing against isn't episodes being bottled/contained - I'd be up for having more two-parters, not less - but rather against plot arcs extending too deeply (again, I come back to Cracks in Time/Saxon/Bad Wolf/Disappearing Planets, all of which I felt were good and paid off well - Torchwood not so much) into individual stories. I think when you start having previously segments that cash in on bits from several different stories set on several different planets all with different guest characters, things get muddy and messy. That's thanks to the structure of the show - because it's constantly going to new places with new people, it becomes harder to have that sort of continuity. For most shows introducing a new guest star is a big deal. Who cycles through two to five guest stars every week!

Also - 7a I was fine with, really. The quality of the individual stories can be debated, as ever, but structurally I liked the vague linking between them and things. It felt like Series 5 again, which was nice.
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I think I get what you're saying, to an extent. You'd rather the overall/season long arcs be contained in their own serialized stories and not interspersed with the other episodes that make up the season or across multiple seasons if it came to that. And I agree.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
brucewaynegretzky said:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, YES!!!! I keep saying bring back those damn dragons because they're a PERFECT Who villain, but no one seems to care.
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Ugh. They ruin that episode to me. And they're just a ripoff of the Langoliers anyways, so it always gives me flashbacks to those pacman/chain-chomp bad CG things that were in the tv movie of it.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
maharg said:
Ugh. They ruin that episode to me. And they're just a ripoff of the Langoliers anyways, so it always gives me flashbacks to those pacman/chain-chomp bad CG things that were in the tv movie of it.
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They were the result of orders from high saying that every episode should have a monster in it. Can't be squandering that merchandising money. The original vision was barely glimpsed, tiny creatures that sprung from the shadows, but you can't make a gift set out of them.

Moffat appears to have more leeway in this regard; it's hard to imagine an episode as monster-free as Let's Kill Hitler or The Lodger happening on RTD's watch.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
I am going to bed but I wanted to share this gif I found before I did cause I can't stop giggling. Enjoy.


4cgo4.gif
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Exterminieren said:
They were the result of orders from high saying that every episode should have a monster in it. Can't be squandering that merchandising money. The original vision was barely glimpsed, tiny creatures that sprung from the shadows, but you can't make a gift set out of them.

Moffat appears to have more leeway in this regard; it's hard to imagine an episode as monster-free as Let's Kill Hitler or The Lodger happening on RTD's watch.
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In fairness, Midnight. maharg is right, though, those dragons are crap.
 
O

odiin

My Apartment, or the 120 Screenings of Salo
Regulus Tera said:
Not enough people appreciate Father's Day and that makes me sad.
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Absolutely. Way back when Neil Gaiman was only a rumour, I nearly wet myself at the idea of him, Moffat, and Cornell all writing episodes for season 5. It's a shame Paul Cornell was never actually invited back because those three are, by far, the best Nu-Who writers out there.
 
H

hamchan

Member
I think I'll stop following the production and previews of episodes in Doctor Who. More exciting that way, not knowing what the episode will be about when first starting it up.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Inanna said:
I dunno, part of why I liked Donna so much was because of her awesome chemistry with the 10th doctor! I just can't see her be that chummy with 11th.
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Yeah, I think she would find 11's almost always-on manic attitude to be a little insufferable

maybe a teensy bit of projection going on there
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
odiin said:
Absolutely. Way back when Neil Gaiman was only a rumour, I nearly wet myself at the idea of him, Moffat, and Cornell all writing episodes for season 5. It's a shame Paul Cornell was never actually invited back because those three are, by far, the best Nu-Who writers out there.
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Cornell did have an episode commissioned for series 5 and (IIRC) series 6.

He's a busy man, though, and he's just had a kid, so opportunities have been thin on the ground.
 
frontieruk

frontieruk

Member
Future Foundation said:
Eleven w/ Rory + Donna is my dream TARDIS team.
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I'd be out... I still cant watch any of the episodes with Donna as the companion, "Bu' Wat Can eye doooooooooo, I'm just a " Fucking shut up and die already the accent wasnt funny in your own show fuck off out of who with it.

apparently the stories are really good that season to :(
 
H

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
frontieruk said:
I'd be out... I still cant watch any of the episodes with Donna as the companion, "Bu' Wat Can eye doooooooooo, I'm just a " Fucking shut up and die already the accent wasnt funny in your own show fuck off out of who with it.

apparently the stories are really good that season to :(
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boothisman.gif

Also, if the tag fits . . . :p
 
O

odiin

My Apartment, or the 120 Screenings of Salo
Exterminieren said:
Cornell did have an episode commissioned for series 5 and (IIRC) series 6.

He's a busy man, though, and he's just had a kid, so opportunities have been thin on the ground.
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Thats's good to know. I was beginning to think Stephen Moffat had a personal vendetta against him or something.
 
S

Symphonic

Member
googleplex said:
My man.

Donna was the best companion followed closely by Rory.
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I've been trying to figure out why anyone in their right mind would find Catherine Tate funny and I just can't. My friends love her, my sister loves her. Me and my girlfriend feel like we're the only one noticing how annoyingly unfunny she is.

i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills.gif
 
Q

Quick

Banned
I think she's fine in Doctor Who.

Hated her in season 8 of The Office. She's somewhat tolerable now that they've toned her down.
 
S

Sober

Member
Rose + 9 was so much better than Rose and 10 if you ask me. So out of all of 10's companions, Donna was arguably the best but she got shafted so hard at the end. Not sure how Donna would interact with 11, but Donna is pretty much up there/tied with Amy+Rory and 11.
 
F

FillerB

Member
loblaw said:
I've been trying to figure out why anyone in their right mind would find Catherine Tate funny and I just can't. My friends love her, my sister loves her. Me and my girlfriend feel like we're the only one noticing how annoyingly unfunny she is.
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Catherine Tate aloneis an annoying unfunny "comedian".
Donna Noble when put against 10 and after some character development is without a doubt one of the best nu-who companions.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Yeah, separating comedian Catherine Tate from actor Catherine Tate is definitely important.

You can't tell me her work in Forest of the Dead, Turn Left or Journey's End is anything other than fine dramatic acting.

Hell, she's great in The Unicorn and the Wasp, despite it being loosely sketched parody. Bitterly underrated episode, that one.
 
A

AcciDante

Member
loblaw said:
I've been trying to figure out why anyone in their right mind would find Catherine Tate funny and I just can't. My friends love her, my sister loves her. Me and my girlfriend feel like we're the only one noticing how annoyingly unfunny she is.
Click to expand...

She's my favorite companion because of her character development and chemistry with the Doctor. I didn't think she was funny at all. Maybe you're looking at it from the wrong angle?
 
B

Box of Bunnies

Banned
loblaw said:
I've been trying to figure out why anyone in their right mind would find Catherine Tate funny and I just can't. My friends love her, my sister loves her. Me and my girlfriend feel like we're the only one noticing how annoyingly unfunny she is.

i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills.gif
Click to expand...

Hadn't seen any of her comedy before seeing her in Who. Have seen very little since. Have basically no opinion of her outside of the show. She's fabulous as Donna though.
 
A

Ammish

Banned
Will it be quickly added on BBCi Player later on? Spending time with the missus' family and the missus hates Doctor Who ever since Tennant left.
 
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