Commander Jameson
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Ah yes. It's coming back to me now. Thanks.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Ah yes. It's coming back to me now. Thanks.
Yeah I got that but I meant the twelth regen. I wonder if the next guy after Smith will be really the final regen or if they're going to use that reason to somehow make 8,5 not count
AFollowerNotALeader
Member
OK, kids on Twitter thinking that "John Hurt" is the Doctor's real name just saved the episode.
I'd be totally up for a more morally grey Doctor Who series starring John Hurt.
I'd be totally up for a more morally grey Doctor Who series starring John Hurt.
APZonerunner
Member
Well, suppose it's safe to post this now - one of the people who posted 100% accurate spoilers for this episode and episodes earlier in the series also said that there would be
filmed and released between now and the 50th.
That makes who he is a lot more clear, imo.
a web-based mini-episode where Paul McGann regenerates into Hurt
That makes who he is a lot more clear, imo.
That's what I'm thinking as well.
The Elite
BOSS
This has me very excited.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
bobs...onGaf
Member
Can someone give me a bullet point explanation for all this?
Any this? Did something happen between the old seasons and new seasons of Who that people who just watch the new stuff dont know about?
Seven Force
Banned
Oh man, this is going to be great.
Keyser Soze
Member
Stuff is trending like crazy!
Well that was something. The parts with the classic doctors looked a bit off, but I guess that was to be expected. They were really cool either way. It was a great episode.
Oh man, I hope this is true, that would be amazing. I wonder how mini it would actually be though.
Oh man, I hope this is true, that would be amazing. I wonder how mini it would actually be though.
googleplex
Member
Watch? he poured the gasoline and lit the match.
PowderedToast
Junior Member
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
What a great ended, especially considering how the last series finished. I thought it was weird to introduce Hurt as "The Doctor" though when he's built up as not being one of them.
I actually had goosebumps when he turned around. Afterwards I was like whhhhhhaaaaaaaatThere are going to be a lot of upset American Who fans.
John Hurt is trending worldwide on Twitter, with this picture right at the top
Pretty good finale I thought.
The Time War and we know very, very little about that. The Eight Doctor fought in it but almost all his stuff is in the expanded universe of the books/audio dramas so how much that counts as canon is a bit up in the air.
Interesting.
Bullet points could be tricky because I'm on my phone but I'll try to give an explanation:
The eighth Doctor (McGann) is exclusive to the movie... and some literature and audiobooks. We never see the eighth Doctor regenerate into the ninth (Eccleston) Doctor, who's introduced, freshly regenerated and just out of the Time War, in the first episode of New Who. It was presumed that nine regenerated from eight, but it would appear that nine regenerated from The Doctor's actual ninth incarnation, one who we've never seen and who's not deserving of the name of The Doctor - John Hurt.
Keyser Soze
Member
Quick Mustard
Member
It brings more meaning to "The fall of the Eleventh at Trenzalore" as well.
As from what I can work out, Smith maybe the 11th Doctor, but he's the 12th Timelord Body.
As from what I can work out, Smith maybe the 11th Doctor, but he's the 12th Timelord Body.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
This is how I imagine it-when the Time War occured-Eight began regenerating-and split into two. Eccelston and Hurt. Hurt is the one who did "The Moment" that killed all the Daleks and Time Lords-and he himself became Time Locked, and Eccleston escaped.
Was he really? I'm fairly sure he actually traveled alone for a while before the events of Rose, being in pictures and all that.
So what happened? hurt is a 'real' doctor as in a proper regeneration, but he went nuts and so the other doctors post-hurt don't count him? Surely no matter what he did, it was still 'the doctor', they can't just ignore it. And we've watched as each doctor regenerates into the next, so is he something that just happens 'off camera'? And haven't earlier doctors referenced the time war? Didn't think it was something that happened around 7-8.
Great episode. Would perhaps have preferred to let Clara die saving him, but I'll take what we got. Nice and simple explanation to the impossible girl, just takes planning to have her in across an entire series.
APZonerunner
Member
- We still don't know which Doctor pulled the trigger on committing genocide on both the Time Lords and Daleks at the close of the Time War. 9 seems to have PTSD, 10 still struggles.
- In 'Rose', 9 looks in the mirror and comments on his appearance, seeming to suggest a relatively recent regeneration, which has led people to think that it was 8 at least that generally speaking fought the war, with perhaps a regeneration to 9 before 'finishing' it.
- Clara sees all 11 Doctors through her journey through his timeline, but doesn't see this new mysterious one, suggesting he has, in a sense, been "erased"
- 11 says to him he didn't do what he did in the name of the Doctor, suggesting he did an act that the Doctor would not do, despises, or deeply regrets. Genocide would fit the bill. Hurt's Doctor says he "did what he did in the name of sanity," which would be true in the sense of ending a war where "millions die at its heart every second," (The End of Time)
- The suggestion is that, out of shame, the Doctor 'erased' memory of that missing incarnation, the one that ended the war, because of the things that he did. It wasn't befitting of his name, and ended in the death of billions. There are numerous mentions, with both 10 and 11 referring to themselves to the 10th and 11th Doctors, but if he refuses to refer to that incarnation as 'The Doctor' out of shame - which adds up with the dialogue in tonight's episode - this makes sense.
- It's difficult to tell in the shots in this episode, but based on filming pictures of the 50th, Hurt's Doctor is wearing the 9th Doctor's leather jacket, with an 8th Doctor-like Victorian style getup underneath.
- As an aside, the Time War has been mentioned quite a bit this series after Moffat really barely mentioning it in Series 5 and 6, so a lot of people were thinking it was about to become more important.
- The previously mentioned rumour, posted by someone who now after this episode has a ton of credibility, suggesting that there would be a
filmed and released between now and the 50th.web-based mini-episode where Paul McGann regenerates into Hurt
There is only one thing I can think of that doesn't add up, which is that the Cybermen in The Next Doctor stole their records of The Doctor's faces, shown on screen, from the Cult of Skaro inside the void - who were involved in the war. The cult were sent away as a backup way before the war's end, though, so their records would very likely pre-date the 8-to-Hurt regeneration, but then they also have 9's face as well... tiny thing, something Moffat probably hasn't considered nor cares about.
Most of this is theory, but I think it all adds up.
Did I miss anything?
Keyser Soze
Member
Will you have to change your name?
It's possible that he is more that the 12th, what this means for such characters as the Valeyard will be interesting to see going forward. In the expanded universe of novels that exists outside the TV show The Doctor is a reincarnation of The Other who with Rassilion and Omega founded Time Lord society, though that has never been in the TV show.
- The 8th Doctor dies at some point and he regenerates into Hurt.
- Hurt is the Doctor that fought in the Time War, we'll say 8.5 if you will.
- 8.5 ends the time war, he apparently doesn't consider himself "The Doctor" due to the destruction and deaths at his hand.
- 8.5 at some point after ending the Time War regenerates into 9, who shortly runs into Rose and the start of "NuWho"
King of the Potato People
Member
Ha ha, it would be ironic if the Doctors true name was John Hurt.
Then how would you explain the 50th?
googleplex
Member
One thing this episode proves is how dangerous the Doctor can be when he needs to be. The Master and Rassilon are nothing when compared to a properly pissed of Doctor.
It also shows why is was so dangerous for the 10th Doctor to come so close to metamorphosing into the "Time Lord Victorious", only to shocked out off taking those final steps.
mightynine
Member
I hope the name The Hurt Doctor sticks.
It's implied. He checks his reflection in a toaster to see what his face looks like.
Hot Coldman
Banned
WOWHAT
bobs...onGaf
Member
So let me get this straight, John Hurt is playing the Dr who is between Old and New who? He is the Dr who was at the time war?
Wouldnt it have been the first incarnation of the Dr who was at the time war?
Ok wow thanks, im still confused though, didnt the incarnations of the Dr in old who talk about the time war too?
Wouldnt it have been the first incarnation of the Dr who was at the time war?
Ok wow thanks, im still confused though, didnt the incarnations of the Dr in old who talk about the time war too?
I think you should see it the same way as the Valeyard. Yes, he is one of "Theta-Sigma"s regenerations but he is not, strictly speaking, a Doctor.
Keyser Soze
Member
EleventhDoctor
Banned
No - the Time War occurs between Old Who and New Who. It has not always been Doctor Who lore.
So it's either TwelfthDoctor, or EleventhandahalfDoctor?
It was an enjoyable episode - and god knows its been a while.
Its superficial though. At this point Moffs resolutions and 'answers' just crumble if you even remotely scratch the surface. RTD at least appreciated his episodes were silly and went straight for emotional bombast. Moffs takes too much effort in over complicating his setups, to give the impression that they somehow follow a superior internal logic...then pretty much resolves things in the same way as RTD.
Look. Timely wimey. Love. Belief. Whatever. Next time will be much better!
Still, a good last ep to a weak season.
Its superficial though. At this point Moffs resolutions and 'answers' just crumble if you even remotely scratch the surface. RTD at least appreciated his episodes were silly and went straight for emotional bombast. Moffs takes too much effort in over complicating his setups, to give the impression that they somehow follow a superior internal logic...then pretty much resolves things in the same way as RTD.
Look. Timely wimey. Love. Belief. Whatever. Next time will be much better!
Still, a good last ep to a weak season.
APZonerunner
Member
Nah, there were Time Lords all over and even an entire season set on Gallifrey - the war took place between Old and New Who. It was RTD's method of cleaning up the lore and getting rid of a lot of the stuff that plain out sucked (like the Time Lords.)
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Oh so that's what The Doctor saw in the room of his biggest fear!
Keyser Soze
Member
It would be cool if the Doctor Mr. Hurt is playing regenerates into this.
Well I would check my reflection in toasters all the time if I had turned into Christopher Eccleston to be quite honest.
PJV3
Member
I like that idea, a damaged doctor giving rise to the Valeyard, shame he became Eccleston.
But if he is returning maybe they can pull it off, a dodgy second regeneration. Matt is now 12, so hurts 2nd regen would count as odd 13.
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